A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
does it?

Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
agree with him.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith" >
wrote:

>A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
>late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
>If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
>degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

Friend of mine (a very CHEAP friend of mine) did the same thing with the
O-290 on his T-18, except he based his on a late '80s GM electronic
ignition. Eventually got it working fine, but he fought an EMI problem for
quite a while. Ran fine on the ground, but it would start misfiring just
after clearing the fence on takeoff....

Ron Wanttaja

"I have a VW engine in a gyro, using this system and it is terrific. Easy
start, smooth idle , two of everything. My cyl head is drilled and tapped
for twin plugs. www.leburg.freeserve.co.uk/
I would reccomend it to anyone.
Ken Reynolds

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
> wrote:

>A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
>late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy Renegade.
>If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
>degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?
>
>I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
>advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
>does it?

Doesn't *SEEM* right?

WoW....
Here's a piece of solid engineering data
we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? <g>

>Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
>btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
>denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
>agree with him.

1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?
2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

P.S.
Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

If you think that prop is expensive...
Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

FWIW --
I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.

In the marketplace....
The magneto remains a very intelligent
and viable choice for most GA missions.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

Larry Smith a écrit:

> A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed
> from a late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered
> Murphy Renegade. If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance
> itself as much as 35
> degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?

I just completed a similar thing.
An old magneto without coil, points...
I drill the distributor and bolt two magnetic sensor at 90° angle
I made a steel plate in the distributor gear for one pulse each 180°
I purchased a CDI box from M&W (http://www.mwignition.com) and two
coils.
On workbench, I read for 2500 rpm.

Now I have a CDI distributorless left ignition and a magneto right
ignition. Advance is set at 30°, but I think I will set a little more
(33-35°). I may install two other sensors for right CDI ignition.

The fisrt start on friday, 13.
Very nice iddle, very easy start in cold weather... 1st flight within
2 days. A long ground test planed this afternoon for engine and
radios tests.

Wish list: a microcontroller with MAP and RPM advance settings.

My engine: A65-8F
My plane: minicab F-PRAZ


By
--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

"Philippe Vessaire" > wrote in message
...
> Larry Smith a écrit:
>
> > A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed
> > from a late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered
> > Murphy Renegade. If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance
> > itself as much as 35
> > degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?
>
> I just completed a similar thing.
> An old magneto without coil, points...
> I drill the distributor and bolt two magnetic sensor at 90° angle
> I made a steel plate in the distributor gear for one pulse each 180°
> I purchased a CDI box from M&W (http://www.mwignition.com) and two
> coils.
> On workbench, I read for 2500 rpm.
>
> Now I have a CDI distributorless left ignition and a magneto right
> ignition. Advance is set at 30°, but I think I will set a little more
> (33-35°). I may install two other sensors for right CDI ignition.
>
> The fisrt start on friday, 13.
> Very nice iddle, very easy start in cold weather... 1st flight within
> 2 days. A long ground test planed this afternoon for engine and
> radios tests.
>
> Wish list: a microcontroller with MAP and RPM advance settings.
>
> My engine: A65-8F
> My plane: minicab F-PRAZ
>
>
> By
> --
> Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬
>

Good for you, Phillip. Keep us posted.

"- Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:06:48 -0500, "Larry Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
> >late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy
Renegade.
> >If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
> >degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?
> >
> >I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ----
full
> >advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem
right,
> >does it?
>
> Doesn't *SEEM* right?

Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.

>
> WoW....
> Here's a piece of solid engineering data
> we can hang our hats on and put to good use.

Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

Engine experts will tell you that the Continental IO-360 has a primitive
ignition system and an outmoded low-pressure induction. It's a great
engine. It just needs some tweaking. On the other hand I may leave mine
stock. I have flown an assbuster or two before and at my age no longer
want to push the envelopes. I'll let the young whippersnappers do that.

>
> Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
> Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? <g>

You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.

>
> >Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
deg.
> >btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
> >denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
> >agree with him.
>
> 1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?

Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
..040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

> 2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?

Hell, no.

Klaus's ignition works. So does the Electroair. This is
rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
quicker.

I know at least 2 A&P's who are fascinated with auto engines in aeroplanes.
One is building up a Subaru at the time for his airplane; another is
building a Piet which he's gonna put a flathead Ford engine in. We got an
A&P at Rutherfordton who thinks Franklin engines are great and has a
Franklin in his Rallye. Isn't a Franklin an auto engine?

We have 2 builders in our club putting those diminutive 30-hp Continental
gpu engines in their Mini-Max airplanes. They should be using VW engines
instead.

>
> P.S.
> Purchased that T-Craft prop yet?

I'm balking at $2250. That's about $500 more than for a brand-new prop for
an O-320. It defies logic. I already have 2 Sensenich woodies, one for
climb and one for cruise. The cruiser hangs on the wall. I'd buy a 1B90
7445 for $1800. McCauley acts like it doesn't even want to manufacture
aluminum props for the small engines any more. So does Sensenich.

>
> If you think that prop is expensive...
> Write a check for two of Klaus's spark boxes.
> Better yet, try again having great fun with a credit card.

Yeah, he's pricey, so I may try my friend's setup, or Electroair, or the
Continental version of Lasar. You just go by once, you know.

>
> FWIW --
> I'm into cost benefit ratios that benefit ME,
> not the seller of a 'better' mouse trap.
>
> In the marketplace....
> The magneto remains a very intelligent
> and viable choice for most GA missions.

Maybe I'll stay with those good ol' S6LN-25's set at a droll 20 deg. btdc.
One of them throws a shower of sparks, but only for a second or two.
>
>
> Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

Over 51 now. Hasn't a year ticked over?

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:52:11 -0500, "Larry Smith"
> wrote:

>> Doesn't *SEEM* right?
>
>Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.
>
>>
>> WoW....
>> Here's a piece of solid engineering data
>> we can hang our hats on and put to good use.
>
>Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
>spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
>aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?

What your reply tells me is --
until you are more engineer than lawyer...
lawyers know jack **** about advance
or timing... except as it applies to collecting
monies from clients and adversaries.

>> Inform Continental immediately of your discovery.
>> Save the world... and maybe a whale or two? <g>
>
>You can be sure they've been playing, experimenting with something like
>Unison's Lasar in their skunkworks wing.

SO?

>> >Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45
>deg.
>> >btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
>> >denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
>> >agree with him.
>>
>> 1. Isn't Klaus's denunciation..... an infomercial?
>
>Yeah, but if you've seen how his ignition will shoot a hot spark across an
>.040 gap and fire fouled plugs a mag can't budge, you'd be sold.

I am sold.
I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
by my current airworthy application.

You may be a dumb **** that just gotta have the latest
and greatest to stay ahead of the Jones's. I *do not*.

>> 2. Has not "thinking" gotten you into a ton of trouble, before?
>
>Hell, no.
>
>Klaus's ignition works.
> So does the Electroair.

So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.

>This is rec.aviation.experimental. Be in it.

Quit the cheap shots and condescending horse****. OK?
I've was in experimental aviation before you got out of diapers.

BTW, this is...... rec.aviation.homebuilt <---<<<<
Does anybody that takes issue with me know where they're at?

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
>quicker.

Let the spin stop for a moment.

Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.

Figure this, too....
When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
I'll pass, thank you.

As an advocate...
you ain't **** until you part with your cold hard cash for the
above product. Until you do, your call for me to join in
rec.aviation.experimental? is as hollow and empty as your
friggin' head. I own and fly experimental now and began it
with a Fly Baby in the early '60's and belonged to the EAA
when Rockford was the cool place to go.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>>Ja, Bob, and I'm not even an engineer. Does it tell you something that
>>spark timing on autos has "advanced" into this century while spark timing on
>>aircraft engines is mired up in the 20th?
>
>
> What your reply tells me is --
> until you are more engineer than lawyer...
> lawyers know jack **** about advance
> or timing... except as it applies to collecting
> monies from clients and adversaries.

This reminds me of a conversation I witnessed between a sales guy and a
lawyer. The lawyer worked for a large firm on K street. He was in
charge of technology on a couple of really, really large cases which
involved the preparation and exchange of millions of pages of
information. The sales guy (a friend of mine for some years) had sold
the firm on a particular method of handling the documents
electronically. Things hadn't been going well. (In fact, that's why
the sales guy called my company in. We had, on a couple of previous
occasions, cleaned up the mess made by his company.) During a misguided
effort to "bond" with the lawyer, the following exchange occurred:

SG: Law fascinates me.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: I always wished I had become a lawyer.
Lawyer: Hmmm.
SG: My father is a lawyer. And a diplomat. My sister is a lawyer. My
grandfather was a lawyer. It's really ironic that I'm not. I mean,
I've been surrounded by it all my life, and I've been influenced by so
many people, all lawyers. I can't really think of any better heritage
than to come from a long line of lawyers.
Lawyer: Is that so? You feel that being brought up around all those
lawyers made you a better person?
SG: Oh, absolutely. In subtle and not so subtle ways.
Lawyer: Yeah, well everybody in my family was an auto mechanic. I think
I f**ked up.

<snip>
>
> I am sold.
> I'm just not gonna write an outrageous check for an
> upgrade that is not required and CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED
> by my current airworthy application.

<snip>

>>Klaus's ignition works.
>>So does the Electroair.
>
>
> So do magnetos... at a far, far lesser price.
>
>
<snip>
>>Variable timing ignition is more efficient, saves fuel, gets you there
>>quicker.
>
>
> Let the spin stop for a moment.
>
> Give me some hard numbers that I can take to the bank.
> My calculator sez...it will take me a gazillions years to
> recoup an investment in any upgrade priced like Klaus's
> at the current price of auto fuel and the hours I fly per year.
>
> Figure this, too....
> When a Klaus unit drops dead and I can't find Klaus or I'm
> cross country and need to get home what do I do? Buy
> a standard magneto to get home and then mail the offending
> high priced Klaus unit to the Republik of Kalifonia for service?
> I'll pass, thank you.
<snip>

Some good points on both sides. The new stuff is great; the old stuff
is adequate to the purpose. The new stuff doesn't have decades of
provable success under its proverbial belt. But the old stuff doesn't
make use of anything we've learned in those same decades. Great
discussion, ****ing aside.

Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did you get
touchy? I'll go back and read the archives when I have time, but for
now, I'm just happy to have enough time to check in again.

Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious" Sego

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:38 GMT, Ben Sego >
wrote:

>Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
>deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
>stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years
>I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you,

>Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

<beaming>

Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
I'm sure it's a hoot and is a very fine list of all those that
have distinguished themselves both with credentials and
accomplishments we both admire in the field of aviation.

P.S.
Your slipping...
You didn't ask if I quit beating my wife yet.

Also..
This thread is for Hot Spark Ignition.
Got anything to add that's on topic?


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years tolerating unsuccessful nit****s

- Barnyard BOb - a écrit:



> In the marketplace....
> The magneto remains a very intelligent
> and viable choice for most GA missions.

Right, but for better value ratio, I choose automotive CDI box, two
coil and I have a distributorless ignition ready to fly for ? value
of a new magneto.

I have two non shielded AM4 eisemann magneto and I don't realy want to
purchase a new Slick magneto neither a used Bendix.
I need to upgrade with EMI friendly ignition, a set of new magnetos or
electronic ignition from automotive parts. When I check noise on my
handeld VHF very near my car ignition, I find it is realy quiet.

I choosed and I will begin to flight before you wake up to morrow.


Against EMI emission, I choose resistor plug, resistor caps and
resitor cable. The radio is now clear of EMI emissions from ignition,
now I can install a fixed radio and a Xponder for busy aeras.

It is the first goal I acheived, the second is a little more fuel
efficiency, I need more range, and I think it's better to burn less
fuel than to take more fuel in a bigger tank. I work with the CAFE
and EAA printed reports about ignition during the '90s.

With this reports, I think it is possible to set more ignition
advanced (38-40° btdc) on full throttle for 65% power on altitude and
run leaner engine .

For engine controls I use an engine information system with 4EGT and
4CHT..... and flight engineer knowledge....



By
--
minicab F-PRAZ
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
> <beaming>
>
> Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
You're welcome, Mr. Urban.
> When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
Ah well, see that's where I'll have to go digging through the archives.
I don't really look forward to that. I used to be here (lurking,
occasionally posting) a lot, but then work and family issues took me
away from it. After a hiatus, I started visiting again, just after Tony
Pucillo died. That bothered me more than I would have thought such an
event might. I didn't know him like a lot of you did, having never been
sued by certain esteemed individuals, but Tony and I traded posts and
e-mails. So, after reading about his untimely passing, I didn't come
back for a while.

Then,I looked in a bit ago and read the message about Warren. I stayed
away for a couple more weeks.

Now, I'm by-God determined to stick it out. But I must admit that I'm a
bit worried that when I read the archives I'll find out that someone
else I "knew" died.

<snip>
>
> Also..
> This thread is for Hot Spark Ignition.
> Got anything to add that's on topic?

Actually, I do, but now that I've rambled on about other things, I don't
have time to type it. I have to go pick up my kid from day care,
because Mom is off helping the her company help the ATF. Maybe, if I
can fit it in, I'll say something on topic later.

B.S.

On 17 Nov 2003 08:31 AM, Ben Sego posted the following:

> Bob, I know you're one of the old hands here at
> deja.yahoo.flamebait.experimental, and its great to read a lot of your
> stuff. But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of
> years I was away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did
> you get touchy? I'll go back and read the archives when I have time,
> but for now, I'm just happy to have enough time to check in again.
>
> Ben "still not caring whether you all get along, just curious" Sego

All of the above. At this point who cast the first stone is less
important to the discussion than the matter of who has the biggest pair.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

I have been flying Klaus's unit since 97 it survived one crash and 160+ hrs.
It starts my 0320 in Canadian cold much better than the "Slick" mag. In
fact I start on the CDI and then turn the mag on after the engine is idling.
When I first put the engine together (with mags just re-built by a guy in
So. Cal with a great rep on mag o'haul) one of the mags shed it's impulse
coupler before I even got a burp out of the engine and if the engine had of
been in a horizontal mounting, I would have probably lost a good bit of the
accessory case.
Fuel efficiency? I flew my Safari helo for 2 hrs (hobbs meter) and couldn't
get any more than 12 gals in the tanks. No. I didn't set and idle for 1.75
hrs then go for a hop around the pattern. It was a cross country of 60
miles one way. Yes. I know the Lycoming operators manual tells me to
expect higher fuel consumption than that. But..12 gals was what the pump
said. Had a fouled plug on the magneto side. Could only detect it during
mag ck. No engine roughness with the CDI on.
I have had only one CDI ignition problem with Klaus's unit and it was caused
by a wire connection that I made. Hotter spark, better fuel efficiency,
lighter weight, fewer moving parts. The only thing stopping me from the
second CDI is $$.
Stuart Fields Safari builder, pilot, retired Electronic Engr. Also been
fooling with the experimental stuff since 1965.
"Larry Smith" > wrote in message
...
> A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed from a
> late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered Murphy
Renegade.
> If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance itself as much as 35
> degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?
>
> I want to use one on the IO-360 Continental. And did you know ---- full
> advance timing on that engine is 20 degrees btdc? It doesn't seem right,
> does it?
>
> Lightspeed Klaus used to advance timing on his O-200 to as much as 45 deg.
> btdc. I wonder if he still does. I was just reading Klaus's
> denunciation of the magneto as something of an ancient relic. I think I
> agree with him.
>
>

>Hotter spark, better fuel efficiency,
>lighter weight, fewer moving parts.

----------------------------------------------------

Dear Stu (and the Group),

All true and has been since the late 1960's. But mention that fact to a
roomful of Conventional Wisdomites and watch what happens. (Come to think of
it, it happened right here, too :-)

As a point of interest, those sturdy little Scintilla-Vertex magnetos we usta
get from VW's Industrial Engine Division for $90 now cost $800. And a single
Slick, plus wires, plug adapters, mounting & coupler goes for a cool thousand.
By comparison a CDI system that gives a better spark and has a better MTBO
comes in at around $150 while the Good Stuff... a dual-coil waste-spark
'distributorless' system runs about $250.

All VW stuff of course, meaning it's below the Conventional Wisdomite radar but
it's surprising how many Lyc's and Continentals are using such systems.

-R.S.Hoover

Ben Sego > wrote:

>- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>> <beaming>
>>
>> Thanx for the back handed compliment, Ben Dover.
>You're welcome, Mr. Urban.
>> When you have time, please funrish your list of "everybody".
>Ah well, see that's where I'll have to go digging through the archives.
> I don't really look forward to that. I used to be here (lurking,
>occasionally posting) a lot, but then work and family issues took me
>away from it.

>B.S.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What gives, BS?
Perhaps I'm reading you all wrong, but...

You keep insisting you have little precious time
for the r.a.h. group but yet insist on making me
the 'object of your affection' now and it looks like
into the future... now that you are "back".

I really don't give a rat's ass about you digging for
dirt about me in the archives and I doubt that anyone
else does, either. Why you should return as a man
on a mission gunning for me or anyone puts you in
a sad class all by yourself and has no place in this
newsgroup.

Perhaps you should take a deep breath, examine
your priorities and read what Holger has recently
written. If you continue to shadow me, I believe you
may find it a less than pleasant or rewarding experience.
This is rec.aviation.homebuilt, not wreck.bob.urban.
If you carry through with what is beginning to look
like personal harassment of me, I can assure you,
your ISP will receive a copy of every nuance you
utter in this group.

Have a nice day and attempt to enjoy some
healthy dialog with the others, if you can.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

From the auto engine and motorcycle engine builders, and experimenters,
great benefits for the aircraft engine: nikasil cylinders; lightweight
starters, generators and alternators; carbon
fiber and composite propellers; modern fuel injection systems; Ellison TB
injector
and other variable venturi carbs;
ignition boxes by Lightspeed and Electroair; porting, flow-matching, and
balancing,

auto engines with good reps: subaru, vw, mazda rotary, bmw mcy engines,
suzuki sprint 3-cylinder

Engines I'm familiar with and don't like in airplanes: Franklin, Corvair,
any 2-stroke, 65-horse Lycoming (which never even made 60 horses in its best
day below sea level and could be best used as a boat anchor); Jabiru;
Revmaster; Trabant;
GO-300; Tigre (junk); Menasco (junk)

Fascinating new developments: diesel engines, like the Thielert and Zoche.

Other great engines: Ranger inline, Continental and Lycoming radials,
Vedeneyev, P&W, Jacobs (shaky Jake), Szekely, Warner, Wright, etc.

Favorite engine: Rolls-Royce Merlin which powered the P-51 Mustang:
plenty of horsepower, liquid cooled, supercharged, very efficient for its
time, still winning, at Reno

This was my outline but I had to git this a. m. I wanted to rant a little
about having to pay such high prices for certified props when you can buy a
s-o-t-a Warp Drive for $600. Now wouldn't that pull your little
Taylorcraft along at a zippy pace? They're doing it legally --- hanging
carbon fiber propellers on A-65's and C-85's pulling certified aircraft ---
in Canada and in other countries but in the USA, oooo noooooooooo, can't
stand the progress.


"- Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:52:11 -0500, "Larry Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Doesn't *SEEM* right?
> >
> >Ja, Bob, that's retarded, relatively speaking.

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
> Ben Sego > wrote:
>
> What gives, BS?
> Perhaps I'm reading you all wrong, but...
Ah, well, perhaps I wasn't being clear.
>
> written. If you continue to shadow me, I believe you
> may find it a less than pleasant or rewarding experience.
I didn't mean to shadow you. Let me try again:

I used to follow RAH regularly, and post occasionally. I followed your
posts because 1.) They frequently had good information in them, and 2.)
they were sometimes funny. In that order; and thanks for both.

I'm interested in the idea of auto conversions, electronic ignition, and
electronic fuel injection. I _want_ those things to work out for the
homebuilt community. You have strong opinions on those issues, and a
lot of what you have written has made sense. It's made me question my
own position; rational discourse is a good thing.

> This is rec.aviation.homebuilt, not wreck.bob.urban.

Got it. But you have to admit that it's kinda catchy.

> If you carry through with what is beginning to look
> like personal harassment of me, I can assure you,
> your ISP will receive a copy of every nuance you
> utter in this group.

I apologize if it looked like harassment; it certainly wasn't meant to
be that. When I said I would be "digging through the archives" and then
said "I [didn't] really look forward to that" I didn't mean that I
intended to go dig dirt on you. Those statements, and the wandering bits
that followed were meant to express these thoughts and feelings:

1. I used to follow this newsgroup.
2. I enjoyed doing that.
3. I haven't followed it in a couple of years.
4. Two times over the past two or so years when I did read the
newsgroup, I found out that one of the regulars had died.
5. I understand that instead of asking about past issues in a newsgroup,
you should search the archives first.
6. I obviously have missed much that went on here, and I can find out
about it by being told by someone who followed the group, or I can read
about it in the archives.
7. I am apprehensive that reading the archives will reveal more bad news
about regulars.

In my previous post, I said:

"But GD, did I miss something significant in the couple of years I was
away, such that everybody started ****ing on you, or did you get touchy?"

Here is why I said that:
1. Your posts have been prevalent in some of the more acrimonious
exchanges recently.
2. I may have missed a significant issue (or at least a flame war) that
would explain some issues behind the exchanges, as I have in the past.
(Juan doesn't count; him I know about.)
3. By asking this question I might receive a useful answer from someone
about a topic to google out of the archives, as I have in the past. Two
years ago, Sydney told me to look up "galactically stupid." (You know,
that's pretty funny, written that way.) I was hoping there might be some
similar direction from someone.

That's what I meant. I apologize for any offense. If there's anything I
didn't cover that you do "give a rat's ass" about, let me know. Direct
e-mail works, or post here, or whatever. If there's something I'm doing
wrong, I'll certainly stop. My office contact information is on my
company website: www.methodin.com

I understand that in a dispute, it's not the responsibility of the
agrieved party to set things right. But it is helpful to the offender
to be told about the offense. So, if I'm doing the wrong thing, please
consider telling me what it is, so I can stop the offensive behavior.

B.S.

>a dual-coil waste-spark
>'distributorless' system runs about $250.
>
>All VW stuff of course

Have I missed something good on the market or are you refereing to
"distributorless" system that still uses the distributor drive, 2 pichups, dual
coils........just no cap-n-rotor?

http://www.compufire.com/pages/vw-products-main.html

<snipped>
>Then,I looked in a bit ago and read the message about Warren. I stayed
>away for a couple more weeks.
>

Which one was that? And why would it keep you away?

And while I am asking, why are some people surprised when others take offense
at being called names or are otherwise insulted or been rude to?

I have to believe it is a clash of cultures.
I am a Southener. Taught manners and the necessity of being civil in order to
live in peace with my fellow man. I would never call a stranger a vulgar name,
comment on his wife or PU truck etc. Unless, of course, I was ready to fight
him. When I give a person my word, I am honor bound by it. More so than a piece
of paper I might sign.
People from other parts of the country have a different take on life, it seems.

I stand when a woman enters the room, take off my hat/cap when in an elevator
with women aboard whereas in Chicago and some other places I have lived, to
give up your seat to a woman on the El or bus seems to be a sign of weakness.

Straight off the farm and off to Bainbridge MD Naval Bootcamp, 1944, I was
shocked to hear a NY type fellow call a lanky, rawbone fellow from Arkansas,
IIRC, a dumb HB or some such and not at all surprised when the Rebel decked
him. The Yankee was surprised, tho. After all, he had talked that way all his
life and for someone to take offense was unheard of where he came from.
I realize we are all still feeling our way in this new medium of communicating
and sooner or later we will all start conforming to the same standard.
My generation of the Old South will give way to others more tolerant than I and
the same will happen in other parts of the country. In the meantime, if you
insult me or call me names, I will just shake my head and try to smile. But I
cannot help thinking of you as an enemy from then on..
I wish you luck with your project, Mr Sego, and if I can help in any way, eMail
or post here.

Warren

>> What gives, BS?
>> Perhaps I'm reading you all wrong, but...
>Ah, well, perhaps I wasn't being clear.
>>
>> written. If you continue to shadow me, I believe you
>> may find it a less than pleasant or rewarding experience.
>I didn't mean to shadow you. Let me try again:
>
>I used to follow RAH regularly, and post occasionally. I followed your
>posts because 1.) They frequently had good information in them, and 2.)
>they were sometimes funny. In that order; and thanks for both.
>
>I'm interested in the idea of auto conversions, electronic ignition, and
> electronic fuel injection. I _want_ those things to work out for the
>homebuilt community. You have strong opinions on those issues, and a
>lot of what you have written has made sense. It's made me question my
>own position; rational discourse is a good thing.
>
>> This is rec.aviation.homebuilt, not wreck.bob.urban.
>
>Got it. But you have to admit that it's kinda catchy.

> B.S.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Catchy it is. <g>

Ben, I see you have a good heart.
My apologies for figuring you wrong.


BOb U.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:55:19 +0100, Philippe Vessaire
> wrote:

>Larry Smith a écrit:
>
>> A friend in Florida rigged up his own non-magneto ignition robbed
>> from a late-model motorcycle and installed it on his O-200-powered
>> Murphy Renegade. If I recall correctly he has it set up to advance
>> itself as much as 35
>> degrees. Any more anecdotes about nonstandard ignition boxes?
>
>I just completed a similar thing.
>An old magneto without coil, points...
>I drill the distributor and bolt two magnetic sensor at 90° angle
>I made a steel plate in the distributor gear for one pulse each 180°
>I purchased a CDI box from M&W (http://www.mwignition.com) and two
>coils.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Philippe,
http://www.mwignition.com) = no address for host

I would love to build what you have.
Any way to get FULL details?

I realize there are some folks here afraid to
even post tires pressures, but what the hell...
can't hurt to ask. <g>

FWIW...
In the mid 60's, I built a transistor ignition setup.
It worked, sorta'.. but no way would I have trusted
my life to it in an airplane. Reliability was an issue.

A couple years later, I built a CDI - a lot better....
but still nothing I would install/trust in an airplane.
I'm a pretty damn good tech, but no EE.....
or suicide candidate.


Barnyard BOb -- 50 years of successful flight

- Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>>>This is rec.aviation.homebuilt, not wreck.bob.urban.
>>
>>Got it. But you have to admit that it's kinda catchy.
>
>
>>B.S.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Catchy it is. <g>
>
> Ben, I see you have a good heart.
> My apologies for figuring you wrong.
>
>
> BOb U.

None necessary, but thanks.

B.S.

- Barnyard BOb - a écrit:


> http://www.mwignition.com) = no address for host

Sorry http://www.mwignitions.com

other URLs
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition1.pdf
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition2.pdf
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition3.pdf

> I would love to build what you have.
> Any way to get FULL details?

From the gear:
1-)an old Slick magneto (4000 serie) with impulse.
I remove all things I can (coil, point, ....)
I drill 8mm holes in the distributor cap and rear plate
I remove the distributor arm inside the distributor gear
I cut a target steel (1,2mm thick or 3/64") and glue it inside the
distributor gear. This target give two pulses for one gear turn, or
two crackshaft turns. I get one pulse each crackshaft turn for one
sensor.

2-) two magnetic sensors from RScomponents
pepperl+fuchs NBB1.5-8GM50-E0
The sensors are bolts on the rear plate (1mm gap between target and
sensor). Their positions are 3 and 4 but may be 4&2, 2&1, 1&3.

3-) CDI box PRO12 and coils from M&W ignitions. The coils are bolt
on the engine case, the CDI box on firewall. You may purchase same
box from MOTEC. This box provide input and output for a
distributorless 4 cylinders engine, a 6 cylinders box is available.

4-) HT wires: automotive "spiral" type , plug cap NGK 5000 ohm
resistor, plug NGK BR8EV. Aircaftsrpuce plug adapter (PN 08-06753).

4-) wiring all together (10 wires), a switch for -12V ON wire
(another +12V wire wthout switch).



The spark sequence is 1&2, 3&4, 1&2, ....... No distributor, no EMI
noise, iddle very smooth and very easy start à 0°C (32°F).
The cost around one half of a new magneto.

The fisrt test is with plugs outside of the engine, turning propeller
with hands and checking the #1 spark position and when the spack is
comming (LED on or LED off)
For advance setting, the sensors have LED in their back. When LED ON,
the advance is OK.

I have two spare holes in the magneto for a second CDI set.



Please, send me your Email for target photo.

By
--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

target photo.

http://vessaire.philippe.free.fr/allumage/cible.jpg


--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

>Sorry http://www.mwignitions.com
>
>other URLs
>http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition1.pdf
>http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition2.pdf
>http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/ignition3.pdf

>target photo.

http://vessaire.philippe.free.fr/allumage/cible.jpg

>No distributor, no EMI
>noise, iddle very smooth and very easy start à 0°C (32°F).
>The cost around one half of a new magneto.

--
> Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Many thanks, Philippe.

Please keep us informed of your experiences
as you continue with this project.

With the costs coming in at half of a new magneto
and having to pay something for useable mag guts...
an experimenter might want more input about
how successful this homebrew ignition is in an
aircraft before committing.

I've related my past experiences with DIY
electronic ignitions and none were deemed
worthy by my standards for aircraft. The monies
spent turned out to really be wasted. However,
the time spent and things learned were worth a lot.
So, I'm slow to get excited these days, but extremely
interested in your efforts, successes and failures
as you progress.

Hmmmm.
Thinking aloud....

I wonder if Jim Weir/RST would take on an
electronic ignition project?

What about it Jim? <bg>


Barnyard BOb --

- Barnyard BOb - a écrit:


> So, I'm slow to get excited these days, but extremely
> interested in your efforts, successes and failures
> as you progress.

it don't matter....

About electronic ignition:
as a simple curent amplifier, it is not really the best way for
efficiency. The realiability may be good if you take amplifier module
from last '80s cars (see http://www.transpo.de )

A CDI ignition: I used such a system in my firsts cars (the same box
moving from one to another.... I see the advantage of discharge:
hight output at low rpm, no current in coil if engine not running and
switch ON, no dwell sensitivity....

With my plane, I want reliability AND efficiency.
First choice: CDI system, less coil solicitation.
I don't want multispark systems neither single output.
After I search for simple CDI able to drive distributorless set of
coils. I found M&W or Motec (same box)

I am not afraid about electronics and battery dependent ignition. I
have 12 hours battery ignition range and only 4 hours tank range...
And remember '60s engine Potez, equiped with point and coil dual
ignition.

Another point of vue: how many planes fly with VW, single point
ignition engine?
I feel good with a magneto and a full solid state distributorless CDI
ignition. And when I will acheive 40-50 hours like that, I will build
a second CDI set.



By
--
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬