I've been thinking a lot about taking a break from my
current career to do some flying. I have no interest
in being an airline pilot, and I know that flying is
not otherwise lucrative (or even in the airline case
for many pilots.)

I'm relatively unencumbered (no wife, kids, or mortgage),
have some savings, and am willing to accept modest remuneration
for my time -- room and board at a minimum.

I'm currently a PP-ASEL working on my IA. I'm planning
on getting multi-engine and commercial.

I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
agency or something.

How does one go about finding this kind of work? What
do I need to do first? JAA/JAR? How much time? Where
is this kind of work posted?

Ideas and opinions are welcome.

-- dave j
--

Dave... if you are looking at additional ratings.. get your Commercial
Glider.. and sign on with some of the US companies to give rides.. they can
be found in all parts of the country.. (US).. they are always looking for
cheap help..

BT

"Dave Jacobowitz" > wrote in message
om...
> I've been thinking a lot about taking a break from my
> current career to do some flying. I have no interest
> in being an airline pilot, and I know that flying is
> not otherwise lucrative (or even in the airline case
> for many pilots.)
>
> I'm relatively unencumbered (no wife, kids, or mortgage),
> have some savings, and am willing to accept modest remuneration
> for my time -- room and board at a minimum.
>
> I'm currently a PP-ASEL working on my IA. I'm planning
> on getting multi-engine and commercial.
>
> I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
> around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
> agency or something.
>
> How does one go about finding this kind of work? What
> do I need to do first? JAA/JAR? How much time? Where
> is this kind of work posted?
>
> Ideas and opinions are welcome.
>
> -- dave j
> --

On 2 Jan 2004 11:59:03 -0800 (Dave Jacobowitz) wrote:

> I've been thinking a lot about taking a break from my
> current career to do some flying. I have no interest
> in being an airline pilot, and I know that flying is
> not otherwise lucrative (or even in the airline case
> for many pilots.)
>
> I'm relatively unencumbered (no wife, kids, or mortgage),
> have some savings, and am willing to accept modest remuneration
> for my time -- room and board at a minimum.
>
> I'm currently a PP-ASEL working on my IA. I'm planning
> on getting multi-engine and commercial.
>
> I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
> around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
> agency or something.
>
> How does one go about finding this kind of work? What
> do I need to do first? JAA/JAR? How much time? Where
> is this kind of work posted?
>
> Ideas and opinions are welcome.
>
> -- dave j
> --


Room and board will probably be the maximum if you want to fly in Africa
or South America. Checkout http://www.jaars.org/aviation.shtml
If I was "unencumbered" I would fly for JAARS you will never forget the
experience and you will see parts of the world that most never will.

BTW, driving a cab pays better than most flying jobs.


R. Hubbell

> I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
> around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
> agency or something.
>
> How does one go about finding this kind of work? What
> do I need to do first? JAA/JAR? How much time? Where
> is this kind of work posted?
>
> Ideas and opinions are welcome.
>
> -- dave j
> --

Hmmmm, according to Walt, who posts over at RAH, and who used to fly
for Southern Air Transport, a lot of the dirt runways in Africa had
unexploded ordinance buried in them from previous skirmishes... ya
might want to ask him about that (doesn't sound very romantic to me.)
My old co-pilot hit a mine while taxiing along a dirt runway in a
C-130 there and still has health problems from injuries she sustained.
But then again, that was a lot of years ago. I say: ask the
missionaries over at the religious NG's. Nothing scares them, and I'm
sure they are still operating there.

Good Luck,

pacplyer

Its interesting that you have to have an A&P ticket to fly with these guys.

> Room and board will probably be the maximum if you want to fly in Africa
> or South America. Checkout http://www.jaars.org/aviation.shtml
> If I was "unencumbered" I would fly for JAARS you will never forget the
> experience and you will see parts of the world that most never will.
>
> BTW, driving a cab pays better than most flying jobs.
>
>
> R. Hubbell

>BTW, driving a cab pays better than most flying jobs.

So does being a golf caddie...but flying is a lot more interesting to do as a
living.


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

>I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
>around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
>agency or something.

Check out www.airserv.org
They even pay as opposed to jaars, which is volunteer.


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

Well, if you want unusual flying jobs, it would be tough to beat the one
that Bill Raisner had. He used his ultralights to film scientific
expeditions for National Geographic and the Discovery Channel. He won
several awards and left a priceless legacy of film. Unfortunately, he and
his camera man were killed in an accident in the Galapagos in 1999. His
company, Leading Edge Airfoils, continues to build ultralights.

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> Its interesting that you have to have an A&P ticket to fly with these guys.
>

I've seen a lot of bush operators requireing this. Let's face it, when you're
operating in the back country, it is not always possible to get an A&P to look
at your descrepancy. If the pilot is a trained mechanic, he can persumably make
a safe determination to the extent of the mechanical defficiency, and weather or
not it's safe to fly with, or make field repairs. Or radio for parts and tools
he or she needs to fix it.

Heck, it's not even limited to bush flying. When I was towing banners we all
spent some time in the shop, learning basic maintinance on the aircraft. When I
went on longer runs that ended in an outstation, I'd have duct tape, a couple of
spare plugs, safety wire, and some basic hand tools. Just in case.

Am I an A&P mechanic? No. Can I change a spark plug? Yes.

--
Mike

"Mike O'Malley" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Its interesting that you have to have an A&P ticket to fly with these
guys.
> >
>
> I've seen a lot of bush operators requireing this. Let's face it, when
you're
> operating in the back country, it is not always possible to get an A&P to
look
> at your descrepancy. If the pilot is a trained mechanic, he can
persumably make
> a safe determination to the extent of the mechanical defficiency, and
weather or
> not it's safe to fly with, or make field repairs. Or radio for parts and
tools
> he or she needs to fix it.
>
> Heck, it's not even limited to bush flying. When I was towing banners we
all
> spent some time in the shop, learning basic maintinance on the aircraft.
When I
> went on longer runs that ended in an outstation, I'd have duct tape, a
couple of
> spare plugs, safety wire, and some basic hand tools. Just in case.
>
> Am I an A&P mechanic? No. Can I change a spark plug? Yes.
>

Let's see...the narrow end of the screw driver is used for, what again? :~)

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 06:25:16 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
wrote:

>
>"Mike O'Malley" > wrote in message
...
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Its interesting that you have to have an A&P ticket to fly with these
>guys.
>> >
>>
>> I've seen a lot of bush operators requireing this. Let's face it, when
>you're
>> operating in the back country, it is not always possible to get an A&P to
>look
>> at your descrepancy. If the pilot is a trained mechanic, he can
>persumably make
>> a safe determination to the extent of the mechanical defficiency, and
>weather or
>> not it's safe to fly with, or make field repairs. Or radio for parts and
>tools
>> he or she needs to fix it.
>>
>> Heck, it's not even limited to bush flying. When I was towing banners we
>all
>> spent some time in the shop, learning basic maintinance on the aircraft.
>When I
>> went on longer runs that ended in an outstation, I'd have duct tape, a
>couple of
>> spare plugs, safety wire, and some basic hand tools. Just in case.
>>
>> Am I an A&P mechanic? No. Can I change a spark plug? Yes.
>>
>
>Let's see...the narrow end of the screw driver is used for, what again? :~)

Opening your beer can when the tab breaks off :-)

Rob

Mike O'Malley > wrote:
>When I went on longer runs that ended in an outstation, I'd have duct tape,
>a couple of spare plugs, safety wire, and some basic hand tools. Just in case.
>
>Am I an A&P mechanic? No. Can I change a spark plug? Yes.

Huh? I carry that in the back of the cherokee all the time! I've been stuck
in airports within an hour drive of a major city but at night
with no shop open (or available). And spare landing light and position
lights. And quart of oil.

And I can barely find the engine in my car.

C J Campbell wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, he and his camera man were killed in an accident in the
> Galapagos in 1999.

Yep. He put a 250 pound Imax camera above and in front of the wing of a Quicksilver
GT500. With the cameraman on board, that had the plane overloaded by at least 130
pounds and loaded extremely nose heavy. When he reached cruise altitude for a photo
run, it went into an unrecoverable dive.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> Mike O'Malley > wrote:
> >When I went on longer runs that ended in an outstation, I'd have duct tape,
> >a couple of spare plugs, safety wire, and some basic hand tools. Just in
case.
> >
> >Am I an A&P mechanic? No. Can I change a spark plug? Yes.
>
> Huh? I carry that in the back of the cherokee all the time! I've been stuck
> in airports within an hour drive of a major city but at night
> with no shop open (or available). And spare landing light and position
> lights. And quart of oil.

Oh yeah, forgot about the oil. Mainly because we ran Aeroshell 120, and nobody
seems to carry it. And the mavel mystery oil. No spare lights- we didn't have
any. Just about anything else would either ground the plane, or could be
deferred (oh, it's only ONE broken rib, put some duct tape on it and you'll make
it home ok. You've got 12 more where that one came from...) ;-)

> And I can barely find the engine in my car.
>

I can find my engine, now the spark plugs, that's another matter (darned
transverse V6's!)

--
Mike

Mike O'Malley wrote:
>
> I can find my engine, now the spark plugs, that's another matter (darned
> transverse V6's!)

I hear that! I only have a 4-banger in my truck, but it has two plugs per cylinder.
Seems like I have to remove half the accessories and part of the fuel injector to
get at all of them. I've argued for decades that auto designers should be forced
to work as mechanics on their designs for 3 months each year.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Did they recover the film?

Peter

"Bushy" > wrote in message
...
| Did they recover the film?
|

They did. They had already completed several days of shooting. Raisner had
done this before for National Geographic, and they had tested the setup
before going up the side of the mountain. The IMAX film "Galapagos" is
dedicated to Raisner.

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in message >...
> Its interesting that you have to have an A&P ticket to fly with these guys.
>
> > Room and board will probably be the maximum if you want to fly in Africa
> > or South America. Checkout http://www.jaars.org/aviation.shtml
> > If I was "unencumbered" I would fly for JAARS you will never forget the
> > experience and you will see parts of the world that most never will.
> >
> > BTW, driving a cab pays better than most flying jobs.
> >
> >
> > R. Hubbell

That's also what I thought when I first read it , but I think that he
meant IA to mean "Instrument Airplane" rating.

Skyking

>
> That's also what I thought when I first read it , but I think that he
> meant IA to mean "Instrument Airplane" rating.

Yeah, my bad. I did mean IA to be instrument airplane, and
only after I posted did I realize/remember that it means
something totally different.

However, the jaars.org posting that another fellow made
does actually require an A&P, though no the A&P w/ IA.

-- dave j

(Ditch) wrote in message >...
> >I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
> >around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
> >agency or something.
>
> Check out www.airserv.org
> They even pay as opposed to jaars, which is volunteer.
>

Yeah, these guys look cool, though their requirements
mean that this adventure would be set back several
years:

MINIMUM EMPLOYMENT QUALIFICATIONS

PILOT QUALIFICATIONS
Captain of Aircraft US License PIC Turbine PIC ME PIC
Single Engine Recip FAA CPL/IR 1200
Single Engine Turbine FAA CPL/IR 1500 100
Multi Engine Turbine FAA CPL/ME 1800 100 500


At 220 hours, I've got a ways to go. I guess I was
imagining seeing requirements in the 500 TT range.

It's not clear if they have lower FO requirements,
however.

I had a talk about this with my instructor (many thousand
hour ATP rated codger type) over lunch
the other day, and he seems to be of the opinion that
these requirements for such lowly and dangerous jobs are
ludicrous, and that the invisible hand of economics will
swing back and adjust them to more reasonable levels --
as more would-be pilots realize that it's not worth it.

I wonder, though if the lure of aviation is just so
great that it will continue to swamp rationality forever.
After all, it has with me. :) On the other hand, I really
don't plan to make my fortune in aviation. I just don't
want to lose it that way.

-- dave j

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message >...
> Well, if you want unusual flying jobs, it would be tough to beat the one
> that Bill Raisner had. He used his ultralights to film scientific
> expeditions for National Geographic and the Discovery Channel. He won
> several awards and left a priceless legacy of film. Unfortunately, he and
> his camera man were killed in an accident in the Galapagos in 1999. His
> company, Leading Edge Airfoils, continues to build ultralights.

I met a guy up in northern Alaska that had a similar job. He used a
1934 T-craft with 4 remote digital cameras mounted at various points
on the airframe. The hat rack behind the seats held the recorders.

At the time he was filming native tribes hunting whales off the
north coast for Discovery or NG. He told me that he and his plane
were pretty much booked year-round by various educational networks.

Nice work if you can get it.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

I know it's not cool to follow up your own posts,
but I thought the group might find this interesting.

Here is what airserv.org had to say about their F/O
requirements:

"
As a First Officer Air Serv requires a minimum of 400 Hours total time, a
Commercial Pilot Certificate, Airplane multi Engine Land and Instrument
rating, Make and Model Check out. Most valuable is second languages,
particulary French and Portugese. We are always looking for individuals that
have some experience with missionary work or life experiences in a
developing country. It takes very unique people to do this type of work
with an ability to sign year long contracts. Mechanical backgrounds or
interest is always a plus also. If your intent is flying, then focus on
that and collect the required hours. If you can gain experience in a
variety of aircraft that is a big plus. If you have a chance to check out
the website it will reflect many of the aircraft we are flying.

Hope this helps!

Wendy Irmischer
Recruiter
"

take care,
-- dave j

(Dave Jacobowitz) wrote in message >...
> (Ditch) wrote in message >...
> > >I have this kernel of a romantic dream of flying
> > >around Africa for a couple of years for some relief
> > >agency or something.
> >
> > Check out www.airserv.org
> > They even pay as opposed to jaars, which is volunteer.
> >
>
> Yeah, these guys look cool, though their requirements
> mean that this adventure would be set back several
> years:
>
> MINIMUM EMPLOYMENT QUALIFICATIONS
>
> PILOT QUALIFICATIONS
> Captain of Aircraft US License PIC Turbine PIC ME PIC
> Single Engine Recip FAA CPL/IR 1200
> Single Engine Turbine FAA CPL/IR 1500 100
> Multi Engine Turbine FAA CPL/ME 1800 100 500
>
>
> At 220 hours, I've got a ways to go. I guess I was
> imagining seeing requirements in the 500 TT range.
>
> It's not clear if they have lower FO requirements,
> however.
>
> I had a talk about this with my instructor (many thousand
> hour ATP rated codger type) over lunch
> the other day, and he seems to be of the opinion that
> these requirements for such lowly and dangerous jobs are
> ludicrous, and that the invisible hand of economics will
> swing back and adjust them to more reasonable levels --
> as more would-be pilots realize that it's not worth it.
>
> I wonder, though if the lure of aviation is just so
> great that it will continue to swamp rationality forever.
> After all, it has with me. :) On the other hand, I really
> don't plan to make my fortune in aviation. I just don't
> want to lose it that way.
>
> -- dave j

On 03 Jan 2004 03:13:28 GMT (Ditch) wrote:

> >BTW, driving a cab pays better than most flying jobs.
>
> So does being a golf caddie...but flying is a lot more interesting to do as a
> living.

Being a caddie for Tiger might be fun. But it goes without saying
that flying would be more fun than a cab or a caddy job.


R. Hubbell

>
>
> -John
> *You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
> American*

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:24:45 -0800 "C J Campbell" > wrote:

>
> "Bushy" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Did they recover the film?
> |
>
> They did. They had already completed several days of shooting. Raisner had
> done this before for National Geographic, and they had tested the setup
> before going up the side of the mountain. The IMAX film "Galapagos" is
> dedicated to Raisner.

Yes and a great show that is, I think they did a deep submersible
dive in that as well. So they had all points covered.

Al Giddings did that film.

R. Hubbell

>
>