[If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
engines: TO-360s]

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole,
Turbo Seminole
Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

LOCATION
City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US

DESCRIPTION
PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30 NE OF
CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION ICING.
NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
UNABLE
TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991 RMK
AO2
RAE11


OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation

Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing:
Y
Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE

FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004

Bob... my copy of the Seminole POH and the one I've flown, PA-44-180,
carbureted, Non-Turbo... CR Prop.. O-360-E4A6D and LO-360-E1A6D, I was not
aware that the Seminole and a "Turbo" model.

I may be wrong, but I would think most "turbo" would be fuel injected,
unless it's an after market add-on.

BT


"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> engines: TO-360s]
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole,
> Turbo Seminole
> Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
>
> Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing:
N
> Damage: Destroyed
>
> LOCATION
> City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30 NE
OF
> CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION ICING.
> NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> UNABLE
> TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
>
> WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991
RMK
> AO2
> RAE11
>
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
>
> Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
Briefing:
> Y
> Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
>
> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004
>
>
>
>

all the current "new piper" spec sheets are not available.. being held up
for the 2004 models... the FAA Registration Database simply listed it as a
2002 Piper PA-44, no specifications on turbo..

BT

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> engines: TO-360s]
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44 Seminole,
> Turbo Seminole
> Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
>
> Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing:
N
> Damage: Destroyed
>
> LOCATION
> City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30 NE
OF
> CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION ICING.
> NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> UNABLE
> TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
>
> WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991
RMK
> AO2
> RAE11
>
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
>
> Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
Briefing:
> Y
> Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
>
> FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004
>
>
>
>

yup
with carbs
PA-44-180T
nice bird, bad trainer, stopping turbo oil flow is expensive
H.

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:V22Kb.46492$m83.22591@fed1read01...
> Bob... my copy of the Seminole POH and the one I've flown, PA-44-180,
> carbureted, Non-Turbo... CR Prop.. O-360-E4A6D and LO-360-E1A6D, I was not
> aware that the Seminole and a "Turbo" model.
>
> I may be wrong, but I would think most "turbo" would be fuel injected,
> unless it's an after market add-on.
>
> BT
>
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> > [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> > engines: TO-360s]
> >
> > IDENTIFICATION
> > Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44
Seminole,
> > Turbo Seminole
> > Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
> >
> > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
Missing:
> N
> > Damage: Destroyed
> >
> > LOCATION
> > City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
> >
> > DESCRIPTION
> > PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30
NE
> OF
> > CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION
ICING.
> > NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> > UNABLE
> > TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> > AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
> >
> > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> > # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
> Unk:
> > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> >
> > WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991
> RMK
> > AO2
> > RAE11
> >
> >
> > OTHER DATA
> > Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
> >
> > Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> > Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
> Briefing:
> > Y
> > Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> > Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
> >
> > FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

ok...

"H. Adam Stevens" > wrote in message
...
> yup
> with carbs
> PA-44-180T
> nice bird, bad trainer, stopping turbo oil flow is expensive
> H.
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:V22Kb.46492$m83.22591@fed1read01...
> > Bob... my copy of the Seminole POH and the one I've flown, PA-44-180,
> > carbureted, Non-Turbo... CR Prop.. O-360-E4A6D and LO-360-E1A6D, I was
not
> > aware that the Seminole and a "Turbo" model.
> >
> > I may be wrong, but I would think most "turbo" would be fuel injected,
> > unless it's an after market add-on.
> >
> > BT
> >
> >
> > "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> > news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> > > [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> > > engines: TO-360s]
> > >
> > > IDENTIFICATION
> > > Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44
> Seminole,
> > > Turbo Seminole
> > > Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
> > >
> > > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
> Missing:
> > N
> > > Damage: Destroyed
> > >
> > > LOCATION
> > > City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
> > >
> > > DESCRIPTION
> > > PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30
> NE
> > OF
> > > CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION
> ICING.
> > > NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> > > UNABLE
> > > TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> > > AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
> > >
> > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> > > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > > # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > >
> > > WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03
A2991
> > RMK
> > > AO2
> > > RAE11
> > >
> > >
> > > OTHER DATA
> > > Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General
Aviation
> > >
> > > Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> > > Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
> > Briefing:
> > > Y
> > > Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> > > Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
> > >
> > > FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date:
01/02/2004
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I'm just going by the listing in the Aviation Blue Book...I don't have a
POH. Never flew a turbo Seminole.

Bob

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:V22Kb.46492$m83.22591@fed1read01...
> Bob... my copy of the Seminole POH and the one I've flown, PA-44-180,
> carbureted, Non-Turbo... CR Prop.. O-360-E4A6D and LO-360-E1A6D, I was not
> aware that the Seminole and a "Turbo" model.
>
> I may be wrong, but I would think most "turbo" would be fuel injected,
> unless it's an after market add-on.
>
> BT
>
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> > [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> > engines: TO-360s]
> >
> > IDENTIFICATION
> > Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44
Seminole,
> > Turbo Seminole
> > Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
> >
> > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
Missing:
> N
> > Damage: Destroyed
> >
> > LOCATION
> > City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
> >
> > DESCRIPTION
> > PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30
NE
> OF
> > CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION
ICING.
> > NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> > UNABLE
> > TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> > AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
> >
> > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> > # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
> Unk:
> > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> >
> > WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991
> RMK
> > AO2
> > RAE11
> >
> >
> > OTHER DATA
> > Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
> >
> > Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> > Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
> Briefing:
> > Y
> > Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> > Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
> >
> > FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Yep. I used to work for Piper at the factory in Vero Beach. They kept a small
fleet of planes that employees could rent for more or less the cost of gas. My
favorite was the Turbo Seminole. Tricked out with air conditioning, weather
radar, 3-axis, and HSI. Had the typical Piper turbo setup (popoff valve
prevented overboost) but was carbureted. IIRC, it pulled 39 inches on takeoff.
Man, that thing would climb! It was one real sweet flying bird. A bitch to start
hot, even though it wasn't injected. I don't think they sold many turbo
versions. Most were sold as ME trainers, so no turbo needed (or wanted).

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

"H. Adam Stevens" wrote:

> yup
> with carbs
> PA-44-180T
> nice bird, bad trainer, stopping turbo oil flow is expensive
> H.
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:V22Kb.46492$m83.22591@fed1read01...
> > Bob... my copy of the Seminole POH and the one I've flown, PA-44-180,
> > carbureted, Non-Turbo... CR Prop.. O-360-E4A6D and LO-360-E1A6D, I was not
> > aware that the Seminole and a "Turbo" model.
> >
> > I may be wrong, but I would think most "turbo" would be fuel injected,
> > unless it's an after market add-on.
> >
> > BT
> >
> >
> > "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> > news:dM1Kb.734123$HS4.5571204@attbi_s01...
> > > [If I read my Blue Book correctly, these are turbocharged, carbureted
> > > engines: TO-360s]
> > >
> > > IDENTIFICATION
> > > Regis#: 53505 Make/Model: PA44 Description: PA-44
> Seminole,
> > > Turbo Seminole
> > > Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 0235
> > >
> > > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N
> Missing:
> > N
> > > Damage: Destroyed
> > >
> > > LOCATION
> > > City: CAVE JUNCTION State: OR Country: US
> > >
> > > DESCRIPTION
> > > PILOT REQUESTED LOWER ALTITUDE ENROUTE IFR OAK-OTH. APPROXIMATELY 30
> NE
> > OF
> > > CEC, PILOT DECLARED AN EMERGENCY, LOSING POWER, STATED INDUCTION
> ICING.
> > > NEAREST AIRPORT, ILLINOIS VALLEY, SELECTED AS EMERGENCY FIELD. PILOT
> > > UNABLE
> > > TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, GIVEN VECTORS TO THE AIRPORT. SHERIFF REPORTED
> > > AIRCRAFT DOWN NEAR AIRPORT, 1 FATAL, 3 SERIOUS. CAVE JUNCTION, OR
> > >
> > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
> > > # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > > # Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 3 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> > Unk:
> > >
> > > WEATHER: KCEC 020256Z AUTO 30009KT 10SM SCT027 BKN034 BKN065 06/03 A2991
> > RMK
> > > AO2
> > > RAE11
> > >
> > >
> > > OTHER DATA
> > > Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
> > >
> > > Departed: (OAK) Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> > > Destination: (OTH) Flt Plan: IFR Wx
> > Briefing:
> > > Y
> > > Last Radio Cont: 0230 30NE CEC
> > > Last Clearance: DESCENT CLEARANCE
> > >
> > > FAA FSDO: PORTLAND, OR (NM09) Entry date: 01/02/2004
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

Bob Gardner > wrote:

> I'm just going by the listing in the Aviation Blue Book...

If you look up the registration, this comes up:

N53505 is Assigned

Model PA-44-180
Status Valid

Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine
Type Engine Reciprocating

MFR Year 2002

Engine Manufacturer LYCOMING
Classification Standard
Engine Model O-360 SERIES

Pretty new plane.

> Never flew a turbo Seminole.

Me neither, but there was one on the field a while ago, was broke all
the time. AFAIK if you see a three-bladed Seminole, it's a turbo.

Cheers,
Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

The one I used to fly at the factory had 2-bladed props. That was in the
mid-80s, so things may have since changed due to ADs, etc. Also, the one
I used to fly was, I think, the very first turbo Seminole made, so it was
even more likely to be different from later production units.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

Jens Krueger wrote:

> <snip>
>
> Me neither, but there was one on the field a while ago, was broke all
> the time. AFAIK if you see a three-bladed Seminole, it's a turbo.
>
> Cheers,
> Jens
>
> --