I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
brand new relay burned up also. Though the lathe came with most of the
tooling there was no manual and no circuit diagram anywhere. Since the
relays, there are 5 of them and a transformer, cost $57 each would like
to by pass that system and install a drum switch (to reverse the motor).
Trouble is I cannot trace out the system without just about
disassembling the whole thing.(several switches controling coolant pump,
light and other electrical additions) I built a rotating phase converter
and know that the motor runs just fine. I would like to find a manual
that has the electrical system diagrammed. The only ID I find on the
machine is "Doncho Enterprise Co. Ltd., Taipei, Taiwan, ROC." THe only
other info on the tag is the serial number and "type JH-1337." My Google
searches for the company have been fruitless. Grizzly has a couple of
lathes that look similar. Thought maybe the rights to build were sold to
someone building them for Grizzly. Grizzly says, "yours is not a Grizzly
lathe." There is no manufacture date but this thing is probably vintage
'60s. Any help would be appreciated.
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

"Bruce A. Frank" wrote:

> I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> brand new relay burned up also. Though the lathe came with most of the
> tooling there was no manual and no circuit diagram anywhere. Since the
> relays, there are 5 of them and a transformer, cost $57 each would like
> to by pass that system and install a drum switch (to reverse the motor).
> Trouble is I cannot trace out the system without just about
> disassembling the whole thing.(several switches controling coolant pump,
> light and other electrical additions) I built a rotating phase converter
> and know that the motor runs just fine. I would like to find a manual
> that has the electrical system diagrammed. The only ID I find on the
> machine is "Doncho Enterprise Co. Ltd., Taipei, Taiwan, ROC." THe only
> other info on the tag is the serial number and "type JH-1337." My Google
> searches for the company have been fruitless. Grizzly has a couple of
> lathes that look similar. Thought maybe the rights to build were sold to
> someone building them for Grizzly. Grizzly says, "yours is not a Grizzly
> lathe." There is no manufacture date but this thing is probably vintage
> '60s. Any help would be appreciated.
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
> *------------------------------**----*
> \(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
> \___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
> / \ for homebuilt aircraft,
> 0 0 TIG welding
>
> While trying to find the time to finish mine.

Try posting on rec.crafts.metalworking---those guys do that allatime. Jerry

Thanks Jerry, Corky suggested the same thing. I had lost that address,
but have posted there now.

Jerry Wass wrote:
>
> "Bruce A. Frank" wrote:
>
> > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> > brand new relay burned up also. Though the lathe came with most of the
> > tooling there was no manual and no circuit diagram anywhere. Since the
> > relays, there are 5 of them and a transformer, cost $57 each would like
> > to by pass that system and install a drum switch (to reverse the motor).
> > Trouble is I cannot trace out the system without just about
> > disassembling the whole thing.(several switches controling coolant pump,
> > light and other electrical additions) I built a rotating phase converter
> > and know that the motor runs just fine. I would like to find a manual
> > that has the electrical system diagrammed. The only ID I find on the
> > machine is "Doncho Enterprise Co. Ltd., Taipei, Taiwan, ROC." THe only
> > other info on the tag is the serial number and "type JH-1337." My Google
> > searches for the company have been fruitless. Grizzly has a couple of
> > lathes that look similar. Thought maybe the rights to build were sold to
> > someone building them for Grizzly. Grizzly says, "yours is not a Grizzly
> > lathe." There is no manufacture date but this thing is probably vintage
> > '60s. Any help would be appreciated.
> > --

>
> Try posting on rec.crafts.metalworking---those guys do that allatime. Jerry

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Bruce,
If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
which are relatively cheap.
So, what is to operate?
1) the rotary converter.
2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
running.
3) Lights
4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
5) ? whatever else....?

The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
of your 230.
Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.

An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
somewhere.
It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
build up from there.

Sid Knox
Velocity N199RS
Starduster N666SK
KR2 N24TC
W7QJQ



"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message >...
> I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> brand new relay burned up also.
..
..
..

That is the way to go. I am somewhat intimidated by what I see and am
not sure what some of the switches do. But you are absolutely correct.
All of it can be controlled with the drum switch to reverse the motor
and the pump by pulling from a leg of the power circuit. Heck, I am not
above running a separate cord to the wall for the coolant pump. Thanks
for making me focus.

sidk wrote:
>
> Bruce,
> If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
> would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
> which are relatively cheap.
> So, what is to operate?
> 1) the rotary converter.
> 2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
> running.
> 3) Lights
> 4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
> 5) ? whatever else....?
>
> The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
> light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
> of your 230.
> Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.
>
> An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
> It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
> somewhere.
> It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
> converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
> a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
> build up from there.
>
> Sid Knox
> Velocity N199RS
> Starduster N666SK
> KR2 N24TC
> W7QJQ
>
> "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message >...
> > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> > brand new relay burned up also.
> .
> .
> .

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

I forgot, I did jumper the power supply directly to the motor...it does
run forward...switch two wires of the 3 phase and it runs in reverse.

"Bruce A. Frank" wrote:
>
> That is the way to go. I am somewhat intimidated by what I see and am
> not sure what some of the switches do. But you are absolutely correct.
> All of it can be controlled with the drum switch to reverse the motor
> and the pump by pulling from a leg of the power circuit. Heck, I am not
> above running a separate cord to the wall for the coolant pump. Thanks
> for making me focus.
>
> sidk wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> > If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
> > would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
> > which are relatively cheap.
> > So, what is to operate?
> > 1) the rotary converter.
> > 2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
> > running.
> > 3) Lights
> > 4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
> > 5) ? whatever else....?
> >
> > The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
> > light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
> > of your 230.
> > Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.
> >
> > An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
> > It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
> > somewhere.
> > It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
> > converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
> > a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
> > build up from there.
> >
> > Sid Knox
> > Velocity N199RS
> > Starduster N666SK
> > KR2 N24TC
> > W7QJQ
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Bruce: I have a Victor lathe that was mfr. in Taiwan that has a similar set
up. I removed the coolant pump but have the switches all working and am
using a static phase converter. If you think it could help, I could try and
attach the circuit for my late on an e-mail. Let me know if you want me to
try it. BTW your post re: Blanton and carb sizing had an equation that I had
never seen before. Thanks..
Stu Fields
"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
> I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> brand new relay burned up also. Though the lathe came with most of the
> tooling there was no manual and no circuit diagram anywhere. Since the
> relays, there are 5 of them and a transformer, cost $57 each would like
> to by pass that system and install a drum switch (to reverse the motor).
> Trouble is I cannot trace out the system without just about
> disassembling the whole thing.(several switches controling coolant pump,
> light and other electrical additions) I built a rotating phase converter
> and know that the motor runs just fine. I would like to find a manual
> that has the electrical system diagrammed. The only ID I find on the
> machine is "Doncho Enterprise Co. Ltd., Taipei, Taiwan, ROC." THe only
> other info on the tag is the serial number and "type JH-1337." My Google
> searches for the company have been fruitless. Grizzly has a couple of
> lathes that look similar. Thought maybe the rights to build were sold to
> someone building them for Grizzly. Grizzly says, "yours is not a Grizzly
> lathe." There is no manufacture date but this thing is probably vintage
> '60s. Any help would be appreciated.
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
> *------------------------------**----*
> \(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
> \___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
> / \ for homebuilt aircraft,
> 0 0 TIG welding
>
> While trying to find the time to finish mine.

Also, I thought of after I posted the above, regular circuit breakers
(the type in your home distribution panel) are really cheap (Home
Depot, Lowes, etc...)and not only provide switch function but also
protection. If you want a 3-phase breaker, simply gang three
together.

Sid


> That is the way to go. I am somewhat intimidated by what I see and am
> not sure what some of the switches do. But you are absolutely correct.
> All of it can be controlled with the drum switch to reverse the motor
> and the pump by pulling from a leg of the power circuit. Heck, I am not
> above running a separate cord to the wall for the coolant pump. Thanks
> for making me focus.
>
> sidk wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> > If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
> > would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
> > which are relatively cheap.
> > So, what is to operate?
> > 1) the rotary converter.
> > 2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
> > running.
> > 3) Lights
> > 4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
> > 5) ? whatever else....?
> >
> > The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
> > light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
> > of your 230.
> > Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.
> >
> > An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
> > It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
> > somewhere.
> > It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
> > converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
> > a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
> > build up from there.
> >
> > Sid Knox
> > Velocity N199RS
> > Starduster N666SK
> > KR2 N24TC
> > W7QJQ
> >
> > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message >...
> > > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> > > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> > > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> > > brand new relay burned up also.
> > .
> > .
> > .

Bad idea to use 3 single phase breakers for 3 phase power as you can have
one trip out and still leave two of the motors phases powered, will let the
smoke out of the motor and possibly you..

Or you can trip two of the breakers and still have voltage on the motor,
this can let the smoke out of you if troubleshooting.

Code requires all three phases to trip if any phase overloads. Same logic
applies to 220 1 phase devices both hot leads must disconnect.

Hugh





m...
> Also, I thought of after I posted the above, regular circuit breakers
> (the type in your home distribution panel) are really cheap (Home
> Depot, Lowes, etc...)and not only provide switch function but also
> protection. If you want a 3-phase breaker, simply gang three
> together.
>
> Sid
>
>
> > That is the way to go. I am somewhat intimidated by what I see and am
> > not sure what some of the switches do. But you are absolutely correct.
> > All of it can be controlled with the drum switch to reverse the motor
> > and the pump by pulling from a leg of the power circuit. Heck, I am not
> > above running a separate cord to the wall for the coolant pump. Thanks
> > for making me focus.
> >
> > sidk wrote:
> > >
> > > Bruce,
> > > If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
> > > would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
> > > which are relatively cheap.
> > > So, what is to operate?
> > > 1) the rotary converter.
> > > 2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
> > > running.
> > > 3) Lights
> > > 4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
> > > 5) ? whatever else....?
> > >
> > > The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
> > > light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
> > > of your 230.
> > > Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.
> > >
> > > An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
> > > It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
> > > somewhere.
> > > It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
> > > converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
> > > a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
> > > build up from there.
> > >
> > > Sid Knox
> > > Velocity N199RS
> > > Starduster N666SK
> > > KR2 N24TC
> > > W7QJQ
> > >
> > > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
>...
> > > > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit
has a
> > > > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned
out
> > > > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and
the
> > > > brand new relay burned up also.
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .

I'll second this advice!!!

A three phase motor with one phase tripped out or dead is
going to burn out very soon.

It's called "single-phasing".....

John


On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:19:48 -0600, "Hugh Prescott"
> wrote:

>Bad idea to use 3 single phase breakers for 3 phase power as you can have
>one trip out and still leave two of the motors phases powered, will let the
>smoke out of the motor and possibly you..
>
>Or you can trip two of the breakers and still have voltage on the motor,
>this can let the smoke out of you if troubleshooting.
>
>Code requires all three phases to trip if any phase overloads. Same logic
>applies to 220 1 phase devices both hot leads must disconnect.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>
>
>
m...
>> Also, I thought of after I posted the above, regular circuit breakers
>> (the type in your home distribution panel) are really cheap (Home
>> Depot, Lowes, etc...)and not only provide switch function but also
>> protection. If you want a 3-phase breaker, simply gang three
>> together.
>>
>> Sid
>>
>>
>> > That is the way to go. I am somewhat intimidated by what I see and am
>> > not sure what some of the switches do. But you are absolutely correct.
>> > All of it can be controlled with the drum switch to reverse the motor
>> > and the pump by pulling from a leg of the power circuit. Heck, I am not
>> > above running a separate cord to the wall for the coolant pump. Thanks
>> > for making me focus.
>> >
>> > sidk wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Bruce,
>> > > If it were mine I would forget about trying to fix the old wiring. I
>> > > would rip it all out and start new using SSRs (Solid State Relays)
>> > > which are relatively cheap.
>> > > So, what is to operate?
>> > > 1) the rotary converter.
>> > > 2) switching on the 3-phase lathe motor after the converter is
>> > > running.
>> > > 3) Lights
>> > > 4) Cutting-oil/coolant pump
>> > > 5) ? whatever else....?
>> > >
>> > > The transformer is probably simply to provide 115V for the pump,
>> > > light, and relay coils. You will already have 115V available as half
>> > > of your 230.
>> > > Compared to aircraft wiring, this is rather basic.
>> > >
>> > > An additional thought... Why the burned up relay??
>> > > It could be that the 3-phase motor is NFG. Or a short in the wiring
>> > > somewhere.
>> > > It might be worth your time and effort to just "haywire" only the
>> > > converter and motor together (isolated from any "original" wiring) on
>> > > a temporary basis to determine if the thing will run. If it does, then
>> > > build up from there.
>> > >
>> > > Sid Knox
>> > > Velocity N199RS
>> > > Starduster N666SK
>> > > KR2 N24TC
>> > > W7QJQ
>> > >
>> > > "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
>...
>> > > > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit
>has a
>> > > > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned
>out
>> > > > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and
>the
>> > > > brand new relay burned up also.
>> > > .
>> > > .
>> > > .
>

Use a bar to mechanically join the three breakers so they all trip together
or get a three phase breaker from your local electrical wholesale outlet.
The cost of the proper ones is not high.

Peter

That is what the original poster said, "GANG them together!"

"Bushy" > wrote in message
...
> Use a bar to mechanically join the three breakers so they all trip
together
> or get a three phase breaker from your local electrical wholesale outlet.
> The cost of the proper ones is not high.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>

Actually a three phase motor runs just fine most of the time with one
phase missing...just at reduced power. It certainly won't start, but
once spinning there is no problem. That is actually the way one can make
a cheap rotating three phase converter from another three phase motor. I
have seen it done many times.(done it myself several times..have seen
small machine shops get all their three phase power this way)) The power
is connected to two leads of a three phase motor and the motor is
started with a kick to spin the pulley or a rope is wrapped on the shaft
and used like a lawnmower starting cord. Once the three phase is "kick"
started the third lead generates the third phase. Those three phases
connections will then power another smaller three phase
motor...producing near full hp on the second motor.

John Ammeter wrote:
>
> I'll second this advice!!!
>
> A three phase motor with one phase tripped out or dead is
> going to burn out very soon.
>
> It's called "single-phasing".....
>
> John
>
>
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Thanks for the offer, but I think I will just rewire from scratch.

Kathryn & Stuart Fields wrote:
>
> Bruce: I have a Victor lathe that was mfr. in Taiwan that has a similar set
> up. I removed the coolant pump but have the switches all working and am
> using a static phase converter. If you think it could help, I could try and
> attach the circuit for my late on an e-mail. Let me know if you want me to
> try it. BTW your post re: Blanton and carb sizing had an equation that I had
> never seen before. Thanks..
> Stu Fields
> "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have come by a lathe that has some electrical problems. The unit has a
> > 2 hp 3 phase 220 volt motor. One of the magnetic relays was burned out
> > when I got the lathe. I replaces the relay, turned the switch on and the
> > brand new relay burned up also. Though the lathe came with most of the
> > tooling there was no manual and no circuit diagram anywhere. Since the
> > relays, there are 5 of them and a transformer, cost $57 each would like
> > to by pass that system and install a drum switch (to reverse the motor).
> > Trouble is I cannot trace out the system without just about
> > disassembling the whole thing.(several switches controling coolant pump,
> > light and other electrical additions) I built a rotating phase converter
> > and know that the motor runs just fine. I would like to find a manual
> > that has the electrical system diagrammed. The only ID I find on the
> > machine is "Doncho Enterprise Co. Ltd., Taipei, Taiwan, ROC." THe only
> > other info on the tag is the serial number and "type JH-1337." My Google
> > searches for the company have been fruitless. Grizzly has a couple of
> > lathes that look similar. Thought maybe the rights to build were sold to
> > someone building them for Grizzly. Grizzly says, "yours is not a Grizzly
> > lathe." There is no manufacture date but this thing is probably vintage
> > '60s. Any help would be appreciated.
>
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Kathryn & Stuart Fields wrote:
> BTW your post re: Blanton and carb sizing had an equation that I had
> never seen before. Thanks..
> Stu Fields

You sure that was my post? If you still have it around shoot it back at
me.(my email) I infrequently post formulas or equations. Maybe I'll
learn something.
--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Going back to the fact that in home use one will not likely have three
phase and the power for a three phase circuit will be generated by a
static or rotating phase converter running off of the household 220v
system. You will be breakering the system via the two throw or ganged
breaker running your stove, dryer or air conditioner.

Cy Galley wrote:
>
> That is what the original poster said, "GANG them together!"
>
> "Bushy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Use a bar to mechanically join the three breakers so they all trip
> together
> > or get a three phase breaker from your local electrical wholesale outlet.
> > The cost of the proper ones is not high.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.