This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?

BWB
______________________________________________



Subject: Fw: Observations by an Air Force Pilot

I'm confident that in approximately 15 minutes this article will be in
the inboxes of every resident of the free world and maybe even a few
people in France.

Chris Thomas, Air Force Pilot:

I would like to add my two cents about my John Kerry experience.

During my career as an Air Force pilot, I spent two years flying a
small twin engine prop plane around the Pacific from my base in
Okinawa, Japan. On one trip we had to fly Senator Kerry, his
congressional aide, and a Navy Captain (Vietnam, A-4 fighter pilot)

who was also in Kerry's party to various locations in Vietnam and
Cambodia as part of the MIA/POW talks.

When I met him, he was wearing a shirt with a picture of his sailboat
on it. I told him I had a 27' sailboat in Okinawa, he remarked "Oh I
never sail on anything less than 135 feet."

Thanks, Senator, "I feel even better about the meager salary I get
paid for flying you around the Pacific."

When we first flew him into Phnom Penh, he went to the back of the
airplane and grabbed the pizza that was put aside for the crew and
passed it around to his staff. He was never offered any pizza because
they were supposed to have lunch with the Cambodian government when we
landed. The pizza was the crew's only meal for that day and he ate
it.

Then when we picked him up in Cambodia, he was an hour late getting to
the airport. Because fuel was an issue, we could not start the engines
and therefore the air conditioning until he arrived. Phnom Penh at
that time was over 100 degrees with 95% humidity and we were basically
sitting in a greenhouse behind the cockpit windows.

When he finally did arrive, we were wringing out our clothes from the
perspiration. He walks out of the air conditioned car, into the
airplane and asks us "Could you guys get the air-conditioning running,
I'm a little warm?" The other pilot had to physically restrain me from
going back there and picking a fight.

Then we took him into Noi Bai airfield in Hanoi. After we picked him
up the next day (he stayed the night in Vietnam, we stayed in Bangkok)
we taxied out, ran up the engines for take off and noticed that our
prop rpm was vibrating all over the place. We taxied off to the side
to look at it, but there was a good possibility that there was an
engine malfunction and the engine may fail if we took off with it.

Well, Mr. Senator sticks his head up in the cockpit and says "This
plane WILL take off, I have a press conference in Bangkok in three
hours!"

(Maybe this is an indication of how he will run the FAA).

American service members lives be damned, we had our Senatorial
orders. We ran the engines again, and did not have the problem, so we
took off and made it back. During the flight, he told everyone how he
had taken a Cessna (a small General aviation plane)up with a fighter
pilot, and the fighter pilot remarked that Kerry was one of the best
pilots he had ever seen.

I don't know about other pilots out there, but it's hard to imagine a
little, single-engine prop plane pilot being able to show the "right
stuff."

After Kerry left the plane, the Navy Captain came up to us, apologized
and said basically that "he knows Kerry is a jerk" and that we should
be glad we don't have to deal with him every day.

Your choice folks.

Elections in November.

You want a mega-millionaire ego-maniac it's-all-about-me
crew-eating-pizza-ite like Kerry or maybe a Green Party candidate like
Ralph Nader?

Or George Bush, a nice God fearing Christian bent on protecting us
from terrorist attacks on US soil?

Hmmm, let's see?

Continued freedom under President Bush or bombs in our backyard under
Kerry (who will be sailing on his "minimum 135' yacht").

As Fox would say, "we report. You decide."

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
> This was emailed to me.

Put it in your bitbasket. Most every newsgroup that I frequent is filled
up with that political crap; "crap" meaning OT political spam from both sides of
the fence. We don't need it here.

Vaughn

Badwater Bill wrote:

> This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
> intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?

Bill I got that 6 months ago, you need to get a faster internet
connection... ;-)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/pizza.asp

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=118479

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
> This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
> intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?
>

OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned back,
by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went home
and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else who
served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and claiming
that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak for
yourself, John!), met with enemy leaders, attempted to raise funds to
assassinate United States senators, and who was largely responsible for the
hatred of Vietnam vets that exists to this very day. And you are worried
about whether this man is rude?

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>
>"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
>> This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
>> intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?
>>
>
>OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned back,
>by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went home
>and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else who
>served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and claiming
>that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak for
>yourself, John!), met with enemy leaders, attempted to raise funds to
>assassinate United States senators, and who was largely responsible for the
>hatred of Vietnam vets that exists to this very day. And you are worried
>about whether this man is rude?
>


No, I'm not worried about him being rude. I assume the rich *******
is rude to everyone. But.... I got this about six months ago too and
just wondered if anyone here knows this pilot. I figure Kerry is a
self centered prick and would do just what he did.

I agree with everything you just wrote about this son of a bitch too.
They should have shot him for treason along with that bitch,
Jane Fonda, back in the 60's. In fact they should have never allowed
her to return to this country after her treasonous actions.

I assume that Kerry is nothing but a lying, cheating opportunist who
would lie and misrepresent the integrity of his mother to get the
Presidency. But, I wonder about Bush sometimes too. This current
administration lies when the truth would serve it better in many
cases.

I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
choice.

I enjoyed reading Ron Reagan's (the President's son) article last
week. I think he hit the nail on the head.

BWB

To BWB: Even tho this is way off the subject of homebuilt aircraft, I have
to not only agree with your last paragraph, but rate your writing as
excellent. If you were to show up at the El Mirage Dry Lake fly-in (the
last week end in Sept) there will be cold beers available for your
pleasure. Editor/Publisher of Experimental Helicopter magazine.
"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
> >> intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?
> >>
> >
> >OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
> >inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
> >imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned
back,
> >by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went
home
> >and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else
who
> >served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and
claiming
> >that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak
for
> >yourself, John!), met with enemy leaders, attempted to raise funds to
> >assassinate United States senators, and who was largely responsible for
the
> >hatred of Vietnam vets that exists to this very day. And you are worried
> >about whether this man is rude?
> >
>
>
> No, I'm not worried about him being rude. I assume the rich *******
> is rude to everyone. But.... I got this about six months ago too and
> just wondered if anyone here knows this pilot. I figure Kerry is a
> self centered prick and would do just what he did.
>
> I agree with everything you just wrote about this son of a bitch too.
> They should have shot him for treason along with that bitch,
> Jane Fonda, back in the 60's. In fact they should have never allowed
> her to return to this country after her treasonous actions.
>
> I assume that Kerry is nothing but a lying, cheating opportunist who
> would lie and misrepresent the integrity of his mother to get the
> Presidency. But, I wonder about Bush sometimes too. This current
> administration lies when the truth would serve it better in many
> cases.
>
> I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
> most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
> and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
> frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
> itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
> counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
> beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
> protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
> choice.
>
> I enjoyed reading Ron Reagan's (the President's son) article last
> week. I think he hit the nail on the head.
>
> BWB
>
>

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
> >
> I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
> most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
> and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
> frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
> itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
> counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
> beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
> protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
> choice.

To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came".

A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
and nobody came".

"John Kunkel" > wrote in message
news:I75Wc.22848$9d6.15462@attbi_s54...
>
>
>
> "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >
> > I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
> > most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
> > and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
> > frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
> > itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
> > counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
> > beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
> > protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
> > choice.
>
> To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody
came".
>
> A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
> and nobody came".

Unfortunately, we got to this point because the voters who decide any
election are those who care the least.

>> >
>> I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
>> most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
>> and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
>> frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
>> itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
>> counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
>> beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
>> protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
>> choice.
>
>To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came".
>
>A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
>and nobody came".
>

The really sad part of it all is that we have the representation that we
deserve. Its bad enough that the majority of people do not even bother to vote
for the available candidates but the real problem is that we sit idle and let
an even smaller minority of the people control the choices of who we can vote
for.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.

John Kunkel wrote:

> "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
>>most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
>>and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
>>frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
>>itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
>>counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
>>beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
>>protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
>>choice.
>
>
> To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came".
>
> A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
> and nobody came".
>
>

It seems to get closer to that every election. I think we're down to
the 50% or range now for people showing up. Another 50 years and it may
be that nobody comes...


Matt

C J Campbell wrote:
> Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
> I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>
>
And I will do all in my power to keep him from becoming president also, I cannot
believe that any veteran would vote for this back stabbing idiot of a fool. This
jerk will give away this country. Maybe others want their kids answering to the
UN commanders that cannot find their assholes with both hands let alone do
anything right.
If he wins may the power that is help us all.
His one lie about Christmas in Cambodia "seared" on his brain should be enough
to throw up red flags about him.

Jerry (hate lying traitors) Springer

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:32:55 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>
You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:30:17 GMT, Jerry Springer
> wrote:

>C J Campbell wrote:
>> Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>> I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>
>>
>And I will do all in my power to keep him from becoming president also, I cannot
>believe that any veteran would vote for this back stabbing idiot of a fool. This
>jerk will give away this country. Maybe others want their kids answering to the
>UN commanders that cannot find their assholes with both hands let alone do
>anything right.
>If he wins may the power that is help us all.
>His one lie about Christmas in Cambodia "seared" on his brain should be enough
>to throw up red flags about him.
>
>Jerry (hate lying traitors) Springer

You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
more your type?

And I'm sorry, but the lies being spread about Kerry can probably be
traced right into the bush family bedroom. Products of sick, depraved
tayksucks spoiled dickheads.

Interesting but I thought Bush has released is records while Kerry hasn't.

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:32:55 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> > wrote:
>
> >Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice,
and
> >I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
> >
> You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
> ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
> clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
> cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.
>

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:58:16 -0500,
wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:30:17 GMT, Jerry Springer
> wrote:
>
>>C J Campbell wrote:
>>> Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>>> I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>>
>>>
>>And I will do all in my power to keep him from becoming president also, I cannot
>>believe that any veteran would vote for this back stabbing idiot of a fool. This
>>jerk will give away this country. Maybe others want their kids answering to the
>>UN commanders that cannot find their assholes with both hands let alone do
>>anything right.
>>If he wins may the power that is help us all.
>>His one lie about Christmas in Cambodia "seared" on his brain should be enough
>>to throw up red flags about him.
>>
>>Jerry (hate lying traitors) Springer
>
>You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
>more your type?
>
>And I'm sorry, but the lies being spread about Kerry can probably be
>traced right into the bush family bedroom. Products of sick, depraved
>tayksucks spoiled dickheads.

You don't like cowards??

At least Jerry signs his name to his posts. Why don't you?

I know who the coward is here.....

John Ammeter

>From:
>Date: 8/22/2004 3:55 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:32:55 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:
>
>>Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>>I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>
>You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
>ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
>clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
>cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.

You realize, of course, making accusations like that which you can't prove only
makes you look foolish.

At the very least no coward volunteers for military service in time of war. You
would know this if you had ever served in the military.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

>
>>You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
>>more your type?
>
>The democratic party rendered a candidate's military service or lack
>thereof a non issue when they nominated Clinton.
>
>
>

Now there is a statement that totally defines my stance on the current or any
future reference to the military service of any presidential candidate. The
democratic party gave up the right to any claim on the military service of
their party's candidates when they nominated and elected Clinton. To now try
and push Kerry as more qualified simply because he "served" in Viet Nam while
Bush remained stateside is the height of hypocracy. Kerry's constant reference
to his service record is two strikes against him in my eyes.

I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is a
greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has been an
honest choice for President this year.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>>Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>>I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>
>You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
>ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
>clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
>cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.
>
>

I have heard that line of bull **** so many times it makes me sick. Either
come forward with some proof of your assertion or shut the **** up.
Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>Interesting but I thought Bush has released is records while Kerry hasn't.
>
> wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:32:55 -0700, "C J Campbell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice,
>and
>> >I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>> >
>> You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
>> ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
>> clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
>> cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.
>>

Don't confuse the poor ******* with the facts, his mind is already made up and
facts would only be ignored anyway.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>>
>>>Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice,
>and
>>>I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>>
>>You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
>>ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
>>clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
>>cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.
>
>You realize, of course, making accusations like that which you can't prove
>only
>makes you look foolish.
>
>At the very least no coward volunteers for military service in time of war.
>You
>would know this if you had ever served in the military.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Dan,

Anyone who volunteered and served in the regular services or any of the
national guard units during Viet Nam was very much aware that they potientially
could end up in Viet Nam. That was especially true for any of the officers who
qualified for flight status and had to serve multiple years of active service
followed by several years of weekend service.

I was in the Air Force from 1965 to 1969 and was very much aware of just how
easily anyone could end up in Viet Nam. I was not one of those who went but it
was simply a case of not being in the right place at the right time. (Or wrong
place depending on your point of view.) Claiming that W's father, himself a
decorated WWII veteran, pulled strings to keep from being sent to Viet Nam have
never been substantiated by anyone anywhere and remain nothing but stupid lies
fabricated by those who can find nothing more to base their claims on.




Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

> wrote in message
...
> You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
> more your type?
>
> And I'm sorry, but the lies being spread about Kerry can probably be
> traced right into the bush family bedroom. Products of sick, depraved
> tayksucks spoiled dickheads.
>

And I am sorry, but they are not lies and the Bush campaign is not spreading
them. Kerry, rather than disputing the facts (because he cannot) is instead
resorting to personal attacks, threats, intimidation and even legal action
to suppress them. So much for free speech.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:58:16 -0500, wrote:

>You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
>more your type?

The democratic party rendered a candidate's military service or lack
thereof a non issue when they nominated Clinton.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned back,
>by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went home
>and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else who
>served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and claiming
>that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak for
>yourself, John!)

Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:50:25 -0500, Darrel Toepfer
> wrote:

>Badwater Bill wrote:
>
>> This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
>> intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?
>
>Bill I got that 6 months ago, you need to get a faster internet
>connection... ;-)
>
>http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/pizza.asp
>
>http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=118479

About all that I saw at those sites was a lack of confirmation of the
specific events in the story, but plenty of confirmation that the
story fits in well with Kerry's typical behavior.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message ...
> John Kunkel wrote:
>
> > "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>I find it appalling that we Americans are not given a real choice in
> >>most of these presidential elections. From peanut farmers to actors
> >>and people who "Didn't inhale" is the gambit we are given. I'm so
> >>frustrated with these idiots, I almost feel that the act of voting
> >>itself indicates tacit approval of the system and that I will be
> >>counted with all of those who really think they have a choice. I'm
> >>beginning to think that avoiding the election all together is the only
> >>protest I have so I am not counted as one who really thinks he has a
> >>choice.
> >
> >
> > To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came".
> >
> > A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
> > and nobody came".
> >
> >
>
> It seems to get closer to that every election. I think we're down to
> the 50% or range now for people showing up. Another 50 years and it may
> be that nobody comes...
>
>
> Matt
>

I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the law. Don't know where it was, though...

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
m...
> >
>
> I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the law.
Don't know where it was, though...
>
>

The Soviet Union. Actually, this is or was a feature of life under several
totalitarian regimes. The government derives its sense of legitimacy from
rigged elections requiring 100% turnout.

wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:30:17 GMT, Jerry Springer
> > wrote:
>
>
>>C J Campbell wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice, and
>>>I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And I will do all in my power to keep him from becoming president also, I cannot
>>believe that any veteran would vote for this back stabbing idiot of a fool. This
>>jerk will give away this country. Maybe others want their kids answering to the
>>UN commanders that cannot find their assholes with both hands let alone do
>>anything right.
>>If he wins may the power that is help us all.
>>His one lie about Christmas in Cambodia "seared" on his brain should be enough
>>to throw up red flags about him.
>>
>>Jerry (hate lying traitors) Springer
>
>
> You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
> more your type?
>
> And I'm sorry, but the lies being spread about Kerry can probably be
> traced right into the bush family bedroom. Products of sick, depraved
> tayksucks spoiled dickheads.
>

Oh yes cowards are my type all right, I volunteered for Vietnam, now tell me
where and how you served, appears you are the coward as you won't even sign your
name.

Jerry

Bush is an idiot, period.

Stan K.


"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> > wrote:
>
> >OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
> >inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
> >imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned
back,
> >by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went
home
> >and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else
who
> >served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and
claiming
> >that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak
for
> >yourself, John!)
>
> Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
> crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>
>
> ================================================== ==
> Del Rawlins--
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

Wow, what a devastating response to the Kerry war crimes/perjury
issue.



On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:24 -0400, "Stan Kap" >
wrote:

>Bush is an idiot, period.
>
>Stan K.
>
>
>"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>> >inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>> >imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned
>back,
>> >by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went
>home
>> >and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else
>who
>> >served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and
>claiming
>> >that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak
>for
>> >yourself, John!)
>>
>> Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>> crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>>
>>
>> ================================================== ==
>> Del Rawlins--
>> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
>> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
>> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply
>
>

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin

John Kunkel wrote:
>
>
> To quote a sixties antiwar slogan "Suppose they gave a war and nobody came".
>
> A more appropriate slogan nowadays might be "Suppose they gave an election
> and nobody came".

touche'

wrote:
>

> You'd rather cast your lot with a cowardly deserter from the tayksucks
> ANG? Rather strange, all the bushbaby has to do is open his record to
> clear it up but he won't. Must not show him as being anything but the
> cowardly deserter he is and his daddy bought him off, again.

I'll give it a 4 on the adverb index.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:24 -0400, "Stan Kap" >
wrote:
>"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>> >inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>> >imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned
>> >back, by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went
>> >home and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else
>> >who served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and
>> >claiming that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak
>> >for yourself, John!)
>>
>> Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>> crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>
>Bush is an idiot, period.
>
>Stan K.

Yes, Stank, I stand in awe of the profound logic contained within your
rebuttal. I can see the Court TV coverage now:

Judge (to Kerry): On the charges of murder in the first degree, and
the other crimes against humanity, how do you plead?

Attorney for Kerry: Bush is an idiot. The defense rests.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> C J Campbell wrote:
> > Maybe we don't have a very good choice, but I think it is a real choice,
and
> > I for one will do everything in my power to prevent a Kerry presidency.
> >
> >
> And I will do all in my power to keep him from becoming president also, I
cannot
> believe that any veteran would vote for this back stabbing idiot of a
fool. This
> jerk will give away this country. Maybe others want their kids answering
to the
> UN commanders that cannot find their assholes with both hands let alone do
> anything right.
> If he wins may the power that is help us all.
> His one lie about Christmas in Cambodia "seared" on his brain should be
enough
> to throw up red flags about him.
>
> Jerry (hate lying traitors) Springer
>

I'm a Vet (71-77) and I'm voting for Kerry. I'd rather have a man confused
about Cambodia than a man unable (or unwilling) to pass a simple UA. I also
have a terrible taste in my mouth over someone spitting on the taxpayers
(that flipped-the-bill for his flight training) by tossed this 'gift' in the
trash. George Bush, at best, is a punk!


Phil

"RobertR237" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >>You don't mind deserters from the tayksucks ANG though. Cowards are
> >>more your type?
> >
> >The democratic party rendered a candidate's military service or lack
> >thereof a non issue when they nominated Clinton.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Now there is a statement that totally defines my stance on the current or
any
> future reference to the military service of any presidential candidate.
The
> democratic party gave up the right to any claim on the military service of
> their party's candidates when they nominated and elected Clinton. To now
try
> and push Kerry as more qualified simply because he "served" in Viet Nam
while
> Bush remained stateside is the height of hypocracy. Kerry's constant
reference
> to his service record is two strikes against him in my eyes.
>
> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is a
> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
been an
> honest choice for President this year.
>
>
> Bob Reed
> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>

There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed GW Bush &
Co. to drag his name through the mud.

Phil Williamson

>> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is a
>> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
>been an
>> honest choice for President this year.
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bob, Bob, Bob -

If being ****ed is therapeutic,
go for it.

If fear is your bag,
go for it.

Wishing for an honest choice???
Ask for an honest politician while your at it.


Barnyard BOb -
To ascertain if a politician is lying....
Check to see if his lips are moving,

Del Rawlins wrote:

> About all that I saw at those sites was a lack of confirmation of the
> specific events in the story, but plenty of confirmation that the
> story fits in well with Kerry's typical behavior.

Yep...

A Switchboard search shows 100+ listings for a Chris Thomas. To narrow
that down a bit, a FAA registration search shows a Chris Thomas as an
aircraft owner of a Beech 23 in Ohio. There are 4 CHRISTOPHER Thomas's
that own aircraft, they seem to favor 172's 3 to 1 and all live near
water, except for one...

>
> I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the
law. Don't know where it was, though...

Well Belgium is that country. I think their turnout is about 98-99% you
get fined if you don't vote. I think it's a great idea. We should make a
tax penalty for not voting in ANY election. Even though I din't serve in
military I think it or public office service should be mandatory and the
pay and perks of our "servants" should be reduced to "realistic" amounts.
None of this will happen until the masses start doing their jobs as
residents of the state. I used to pay my employees to vote, they had to
vote on their time or mine but they had to vote. I don't care for whom
they voted for but they had to do it.
I better stop before I get my momentum up ;)

bd4matt

>wrote:
>>"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>>> >inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>>> >imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned
>>> >back, by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes,
>went
>>> >home and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone
>else
>>> >who served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and
>>> >claiming that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby
>killer (speak
>>> >for yourself, John!)
>>>
>>> Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>>> crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>>
>>Bush is an idiot, period.
>>
>>Stan K.
>
>Yes, Stank, I stand in awe of the profound logic contained within your
>rebuttal. I can see the Court TV coverage now:
>
>Judge (to Kerry): On the charges of murder in the first degree, and
>the other crimes against humanity, how do you plead?
>
>Attorney for Kerry: Bush is an idiot. The defense rests.
>

My first thought when I read a statement such as "Bush is an idiot, period"
is...If Bush is such an Idiot and you are so damn smart, why aren't you the
President?

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

C J Campbell wrote:

> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the law.
>
> Don't know where it was, though...
>
>>
>
> The Soviet Union. Actually, this is or was a feature of life under several
> totalitarian regimes. The government derives its sense of legitimacy from
> rigged elections requiring 100% turnout.
>
>

And not only do you vote, but they tell you who to vote for! Just like
Chicago...


Matt

Stan Kap wrote:

> Bush is an idiot, period.
>
> Stan K.

They say it takes one to know one.

Matt

>>
>> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is a
>> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
>been an
>> honest choice for President this year.
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>>
>> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>>
>
>There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed GW Bush &
>Co. to drag his name through the mud.
>
>Phil Williamson
>

Please, don't tell me you are talking about Al (I suddenly got religion) Gore.
What a friggen joke. He goes to Viet Nam as a journalist, never got close to
the fighting, suddenly got religion and sent back stateside to attend divinity
school only to drop out a few months later. Yes, he has a lot of room to throw
stones from inside his own glass house.

As for Kerry, he threw his medals away when it suited his purpose but now wants
to retrieve them and wear them as some sort of badge of honor. Sorry, you
threw them away and don't deserve to put them back on now.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>>> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is a
>>> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
>>been an
>>> honest choice for President this year.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Reed
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Bob, Bob, Bob -
>
>If being ****ed is therapeutic,
>go for it.
>
>If fear is your bag,
>go for it.
>
>Wishing for an honest choice???
>Ask for an honest politician while your at it.
>
>
>Barnyard BOb -
>To ascertain if a politician is lying....
>Check to see if his lips are moving,
>

You are absolutely RIGHT! I guess it just gives credit to that old saying...

You get what you pay for.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Ah.

VOTE! Protect your freedom or we will take your money and clap you in jail!

One of the reasons we have such low turnout in a lot of local elections is
that we have an excessive number of elected officials who draw little or no
salary and who constantly run unopposed. Why go vote in special election #12
for this year when the only thing on the ballot is whether Joe Putz gets to
sit on the Parks board or not?

Bob Reed dreamed:
> I only wish there has been an honest choice for President this year.

Phil Williamson replied:
> There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed
> GW Bush & Co. to drag his name through the mud.

Bob Reed responded:
> Please, don't tell me you are talking about Al (I suddenly got religion)
Gore.
> What a friggen joke. He goes to Viet Nam as a journalist, never got close
to
> the fighting, suddenly got religion and sent back stateside to attend
divinity
> school only to drop out a few months later. Yes, he has a lot of room to
throw
> stones from inside his own glass house.

Bob,
While Phil's reply is obviously (and needlessly) vague, I suspect he might
have been referring to another potential Republican nominee, such as John
McCain or Bob Dole.

Phil,
Unless you simply enjoy being mysterious, perhaps you should clear the air.

Russell Kent

>
> I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the law.
Don't know where it was, though...
>

Scares the hell outa ME!

What is the benefit of voting, when you don't really know anything about
most of the issues?

It is important that everyone feel he has a voice in major decisions... but
it's more important that the decision be right. When a large number of
people who have no idea on the issues (or a skewed prospective) votes
because they were dragged into it, the "intelligence quotient" of the
resulting decision goes down.

If you don't think it's important to vote, then I say you are right. You
should by all means stay home.


I'd like to see controls on who votes.
Citizens? Damn Sure! How did we ever get to a place where non
citizens could even think about it???

Landowners? Sure! that's how it was originally.

ENGLISH Literacy testing? Sure! How can you know enough to form a meaningful
opinion if you can't read?

Poll taxes? Sure! $20 to vote would filter out all those who are not
even smart enough to provide for themselves.

Computer literacy? This is a new one, but in the world of tomorrow it will
be needed.


>

>From: "Ron Webb"
>Date: 8/23/2004 4:16 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>
>> I heard about some country where it was required to vote, it was the law.
>Don't know where it was, though...
>>
>
>Scares the hell outa ME!
>
>What is the benefit of voting, when you don't really know anything about
>most of the issues?

It happens all the time. How many people only vote the party ticket? How many
voted for clinton because he wasn't Bush? I saw a street interview in 1992
where a girl said she voted for clinton because he answered the boxers or
briefs question. How many people voted fo Bush 2 because he wasn't al bore?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

>It happens all the time. How many people only vote the party ticket? How many
>voted for clinton because he wasn't Bush? I saw a street interview in 1992
>where a girl said she voted for clinton because he answered the boxers or
>briefs question. How many people voted fo Bush 2 because he wasn't al bore?
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

Heck....IIRC Bush the Junior was the FIRST presidential candidate in history
(or at least in "modern" times) to be voted into office that WASNT the taller
of two candidates!

With the implication that voters perception of height seems to overwhelm any
vote differences based on canditates issue positions or voter education....

Now THATS scary if true,,,,

take care

Blll

Richard Riley wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:10:19 -0400, Matt Whiting
> > wrote:
>
> :
> :And not only do you vote, but they tell you who to vote for! Just like
> :Chicago...
>
> I thought in Chicago they just voted for you. Kind of eliminating the
> middle man.

Well, that also. And they continue to vote for you even after you are
dead. I can't imagine how else the current mayor got into office. I
still can't believe he destroyed Meigs. I never got near there in my
airplane, but wish I'd have made the trip and landed there while I had
the chance. Neat airport being right by the water and the city like it was.


Matt

Gentlemen,

I didn't criticize any one of you, I only stated a fact about your selected
leader. I do not have to list any of Bush's bumblings, he makes a fool out
of himself everyday. I am fond of only one of his policies and that
concerns abortion. The rest of his decisions (which are probably not his to
begin with) are terrible.

I am not necessarily fond of Kerry either, and I wouldn't vote for Nader.
What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose from
when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens when
you live in a false democracy.

Sincerely,
Stan Kapushinski


"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Stan Kap wrote:
>
> > Bush is an idiot, period.
> >
> > Stan K.
>
> They say it takes one to know one.
>
> Matt
>

>
>Bob Reed dreamed:
>> I only wish there has been an honest choice for President this year.
>
>Phil Williamson replied:
>> There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed
>> GW Bush & Co. to drag his name through the mud.
>
>Bob Reed responded:
>> Please, don't tell me you are talking about Al (I suddenly got religion)
>Gore.
>> What a friggen joke. He goes to Viet Nam as a journalist, never got close
>to
>> the fighting, suddenly got religion and sent back stateside to attend
>divinity
>> school only to drop out a few months later. Yes, he has a lot of room to
>throw
>> stones from inside his own glass house.
>
>Bob,
>While Phil's reply is obviously (and needlessly) vague, I suspect he might
>have been referring to another potential Republican nominee, such as John
>McCain or Bob Dole.
>
>Phil,
>Unless you simply enjoy being mysterious, perhaps you should clear the air.
>
>Russell Kent
>

Dole would have made a good President but McCain...Thanks but no Thanks.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I didn't criticize any one of you, I only stated a fact about your selected
>leader. I do not have to list any of Bush's bumblings, he makes a fool out
>of himself everyday. I am fond of only one of his policies and that
>concerns abortion. The rest of his decisions (which are probably not his to
>begin with) are terrible.
>
>I am not necessarily fond of Kerry either, and I wouldn't vote for Nader.
>What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose from
>when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens when
>you live in a false democracy.
>
>Sincerely,
>Stan Kapushinski
>

We only have two people to choose from because the American People have decided
that is what they want. When they finally get sick of the candidates put forth
by those two parties, they will finally accept one or more additional parties.
It is not a false democracy, only what the people are willing to accept.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

"Stan Kap" > wrote in message
...
> What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose
from
> when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens
when
> you live in a false democracy.

Mr. Kap.........

It is a shame that you do not identify yourself as an American. Since you
said "your selected leader" I know not if you are not an American citizen or
simply a foreign critic.

It also seems that you are unfamiliar with the American political system.
America is *not* a democracy. America is a constitutional republic. We are a
union of individual states, tied together by an agreement known as the
Constitution of the United States. Through this Constitution, we elect a
leader. Each state has its own rules and laws as to how its votes are cast
for this leader, who we call the President.

For the most part, these rules and laws are very similar, but they differ in
details, such as the primary elections and how each state casts its
electoral votes. In most states, citizens can indicate their preference at
the polls for any candidate of their choosing. Even before the election,
there are conventions and primaries which put various candidates before the
electorate for their examination and selection.

Yes, the final election usually boils down to two candidates. This is the
result of months (if not years) of winnowing out the minority and
unelectable candidates. During this time they are able to put their
platforms and ideas before the electorate for examination and debate.

As in any election, those who can attract the most support tend to be the
front runners. If you are a citizen of the United States of America and go
to the polls, you should ask yourself, "Have I participated in the process?
Have i supported the candidate of my choice with my earnings or my efforts?
Have I gone out and drummed up votes with door-to-door campaigning?"

If you have not done any of these, you really have no standing to be
bitching about the selections available to you on the ballot. You should be
thanking the founders of this great nation that you have any choice at all.

Rich "Citizen and activist" S.

Rich,



Of course, I live in the US I was born here, but I sometime wonder why I
stay. I know this country is not a democracy, but the talking heads keep
telling us it is. Then they have the gall to say they are giving Iraqi's
freedom and democracy, yea right. The only thing they are doing in Iraq is
setting up their little hood winking scheme similar to the one they have
going in this country.



I do vote for the effect (another scam), but I realize it does not matter
since the Electoral College elects the president anyway. Why do I go along
with this farce? I still ask myself that question. After every election,
people realize the Electoral College elects the president, and then two
months later, after chasing their tails at their menial jobs, if they even
have one, they forget about it. Then four years later another election, and
so on, and so on...........



Maybe someday, the people of this country will wake up, maybe not. I am not
a perfect person, but I will defend what is right and just and I will also
speak my mind even in the face of extreme opposition. Someday some of you
will too.



Sincerely,

Stan Kapushinski, PE, BSME, MSME, CFI





"Rich S." > wrote in message
...
> "Stan Kap" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose
> from
> > when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens
> when
> > you live in a false democracy.
>
> Mr. Kap.........
>
> It is a shame that you do not identify yourself as an American. Since you
> said "your selected leader" I know not if you are not an American citizen
or
> simply a foreign critic.
>
> It also seems that you are unfamiliar with the American political system.
> America is *not* a democracy. America is a constitutional republic. We are
a
> union of individual states, tied together by an agreement known as the
> Constitution of the United States. Through this Constitution, we elect a
> leader. Each state has its own rules and laws as to how its votes are cast
> for this leader, who we call the President.
>
> For the most part, these rules and laws are very similar, but they differ
in
> details, such as the primary elections and how each state casts its
> electoral votes. In most states, citizens can indicate their preference at
> the polls for any candidate of their choosing. Even before the election,
> there are conventions and primaries which put various candidates before
the
> electorate for their examination and selection.
>
> Yes, the final election usually boils down to two candidates. This is the
> result of months (if not years) of winnowing out the minority and
> unelectable candidates. During this time they are able to put their
> platforms and ideas before the electorate for examination and debate.
>
> As in any election, those who can attract the most support tend to be the
> front runners. If you are a citizen of the United States of America and go
> to the polls, you should ask yourself, "Have I participated in the
process?
> Have i supported the candidate of my choice with my earnings or my
efforts?
> Have I gone out and drummed up votes with door-to-door campaigning?"
>
> If you have not done any of these, you really have no standing to be
> bitching about the selections available to you on the ballot. You should
be
> thanking the founders of this great nation that you have any choice at
all.
>
> Rich "Citizen and activist" S.
>
>

>From: "Stan Kap"
>Date: 8/23/2004 8:34 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I didn't criticize any one of you, I only stated a fact about your selected
>leader. I do not have to list any of Bush's bumblings, he makes a fool out
>of himself everyday. I am fond of only one of his policies and that
>concerns abortion. The rest of his decisions (which are probably not his to
>begin with) are terrible.
>
>I am not necessarily fond of Kerry either, and I wouldn't vote for Nader.
>What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose from
>when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens when
>you live in a false democracy.
>
>Sincerely,
>Stan Kapushinski
>
>
>"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>> Stan Kap wrote:
>>
>> > Bush is an idiot, period.
>> >
>> > Stan K.
>>
>> They say it takes one to know one.
>>
>> Matt
>>

You just don't get it do you? Saying "Bush is an idiot, period" is not an
argument it is a statement by someone who doesn't want an intelligent
discussion. We have had presidents who have pulled some idiotic stunts, but we
have never had an "idiot" for a president. The fact he completed a master's
degree should tell you otherwise. He's dyslexic and to have got a 4 year degree
is very difficult for dyslexic. I ought to know since I am also dyslexic. If
you and I had met to discuss the election and you started out that way you
would immediately find yourself alone.

Do you refer to his stumbling with words? I do too when public speaking. I have
done it many times because I simply don't like doing it and I stutter anyway.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On 24 Aug 2004 01:55:13 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:

>Dole would have made a good President but McCain...Thanks but no Thanks.

Dole let us down too many times on the gun issue due to his lack of
leadership in the senate, and as for McCain, they should have left
that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.

================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:39:33 -0400, "Stan Kap" >
wrote:

>Maybe someday, the people of this country will wake up, maybe not. I am not
>a perfect person, but I will defend what is right and just and I will also
>speak my mind even in the face of extreme opposition. Someday some of you
>will too.

That is a typical attitude of those on the left, that only they are
capable of having a principled position. Their opposition are either
stupid, or brainwashed tools of their masters. Quite telling, really.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

In article >, Richard Riley says...
>
>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:10:19 -0400, Matt Whiting
> wrote:
>
>:
>:And not only do you vote, but they tell you who to vote for! Just like
>:Chicago...
>
>I thought in Chicago they just voted for you. Kind of eliminating the
>middle man.

In Chicago even the dead vote ,have done it for years. Gee ya gotta love the
patriotism of those folks!! :-)

See ya

Chuck (vote 'em in ,vote 'em out) S

"RobertR237" > wrote in message
...
> >>
> >> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is
a
> >> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
> >been an
> >> honest choice for President this year.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob Reed
> >> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
> >> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
> >>
> >> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
> >> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
> >> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
> >>
> >
> >There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed GW
Bush &
> >Co. to drag his name through the mud.
> >
> >Phil Williamson
> >
>
> Please, don't tell me you are talking about Al (I suddenly got religion)
Gore.
> What a friggen joke. He goes to Viet Nam as a journalist, never got close
to
> the fighting, suddenly got religion and sent back stateside to attend
divinity
> school only to drop out a few months later. Yes, he has a lot of room to
throw
> stones from inside his own glass house.
>
> As for Kerry, he threw his medals away when it suited his purpose but now
wants
> to retrieve them and wear them as some sort of badge of honor. Sorry, you
> threw them away and don't deserve to put them back on now.
>
>
> Bob Reed
> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

I'm talking about Mr. John McCain. :)

Phil

<snipped>

> >Judge (to Kerry): On the charges of murder in the first degree, and
> >the other crimes against humanity, how do you plead?
> >
> >Attorney for Kerry: Bush is an idiot. The defense rests.
> >
>
> My first thought when I read a statement such as "Bush is an idiot,
period"
> is...If Bush is such an Idiot and you are so damn smart, why aren't you
the
> President?
>
> Bob Reed

I completed my military commitment, does not that make me ineligible for
office? :)

Phil

"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "Stan Kap"
> >Date: 8/23/2004 8:34 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >I didn't criticize any one of you, I only stated a fact about your
selected
> >leader. I do not have to list any of Bush's bumblings, he makes a fool
out
> >of himself everyday. I am fond of only one of his policies and that
> >concerns abortion. The rest of his decisions (which are probably not his
to
> >begin with) are terrible.
> >
> >I am not necessarily fond of Kerry either, and I wouldn't vote for Nader.
> >What's a shame is that this country can only have two people to choose
from
> >when it comes time to elect a leader. But I guess that's what happens
when
> >you live in a false democracy.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Stan Kapushinski
> >
> >
> >"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Stan Kap wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bush is an idiot, period.
> >> >
> >> > Stan K.
> >>
> >> They say it takes one to know one.
> >>
> >> Matt
> >>
>
> You just don't get it do you? Saying "Bush is an idiot, period" is not an
> argument it is a statement by someone who doesn't want an intelligent
> discussion. We have had presidents who have pulled some idiotic stunts,
but we
> have never had an "idiot" for a president. The fact he completed a
master's
> degree should tell you otherwise. He's dyslexic and to have got a 4 year
degree
> is very difficult for dyslexic. I ought to know since I am also dyslexic.
If
> you and I had met to discuss the election and you started out that way you
> would immediately find yourself alone.
>
> Do you refer to his stumbling with words? I do too when public speaking. I
have
> done it many times because I simply don't like doing it and I stutter
anyway.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Here, let me try this. In my opinion GW Bush is an idiot! :) Why? Any man
that tosses his flight training in the trash can, as GW Bush did, must have
a screw loose.

Phil

Del Rawlins wrote...

> ...they should have left
> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.

I thought better of you, Del. Whether you
respect a man or not, a comment like this is
just unfathomable.

Dave '' Hyde

(Del Rawlins) wrote in message >...
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:39:33 -0400, "Stan Kap" >
> wrote:
>
> >Maybe someday, the people of this country will wake up, maybe not. I am not
> >a perfect person, but I will defend what is right and just and I will also
> >speak my mind even in the face of extreme opposition. Someday some of you
> >will too.
>
> That is a typical attitude of those on the left, that only they are
> capable of having a principled position. Their opposition are either
> stupid, or brainwashed tools of their masters. Quite telling, really.
>

Actually, I'm a republican, and I completely agree with Stan.

I'm sure the republic will get along quite nicely regardless (or
perhaps in spite) of whatever views us skeptics have, but I really
don't think you need to be on the left or on the right to see through
our current political system. Too much money is involved - there is
nothing democratic about it.

Maybe right now there's nothing better anywhere else on the planet,
but I think the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves
if they knew what our electoral process has mutated into. IMHO, we
aren't the country we used to be, and most people simply just don't
care.

Rob

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:25:25 GMT,
(Del Rawlins) wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:
>
>>OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>>inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>>imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned back,
>>by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went home
>>and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else who
>>served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and claiming
>>that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak for
>>yourself, John!)
>
>Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>
>
>================================================== ==
>Del Rawlins--

You got a laugh out of me on this one. How true. The problem with
both the Bush baby and Kerry is that they are both pathological liars.
I think Michael Moore is an illiterate, but his fictional movies about
"I hate America" do cause people to enter into dialog and dicuss
important issues. One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
my problem is...that Kerry is too!

I don't think either of these candidates would know the truth if it
bit them in the ass.

Is this the best that my country can offer me as a voter to choose
from? I find it sickening.

Bill Phillips

>>Bush is an idiot, period.
>>
>>Stan K.
>
>Yes, Stank, I stand in awe of the profound logic contained within your
>rebuttal. I can see the Court TV coverage now:
>
>Judge (to Kerry): On the charges of murder in the first degree, and
>the other crimes against humanity, how do you plead?
>
>Attorney for Kerry: Bush is an idiot. The defense rests.
>
>
>================================================== ==
>Del Rawlins--

BBBBWWWWAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

You crack me up Del. How true!

Bill

>
>We only have two people to choose from because the American People have
>decided
>that is what they want. When they finally get sick of the candidates put
>forth
>by those two parties, they will finally accept one or more additional
>parties.
>It is not a false democracy, only what the people are willing to accept.
>
>
>Bob Reed

>
>
>
>

I think of it more like a pendulum. After one party is in power for a while,
its activists push its agenda so far in its favorite direction that the people
in the middle get a gut feeling that things have gone too far and they join the
other side to throw the rascals out.

When the opposite party gains power, their activists inevitably push their
agenda so far in the opposite direction that we eventually have to throw them
out. Its a messy business with things getting out of hand about half the time
but with a fairly happy median.

Fortunately the "Ship of State" is so ponderous that things don't get too far
out of hand during any one administration to cause irreversible recovery.

Dave Tate

On 24 Aug 2004 04:07:43 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

>You just don't get it do you? Saying "Bush is an idiot, period" is not an
>argument it is a statement by someone who doesn't want an intelligent
>discussion. We have had presidents who have pulled some idiotic stunts, but we
>have never had an "idiot" for a president. The fact he completed a master's
>degree should tell you otherwise. He's dyslexic and to have got a 4 year degree
>is very difficult for dyslexic. I ought to know since I am also dyslexic. If
>you and I had met to discuss the election and you started out that way you
>would immediately find yourself alone.

Wait, he's dyslexic? Is that common knowledge? Why hasn't that been
broadly mentioned before in the news media, or has it? I don't know,
I rarely watch network news. But I read the papers and haven't seen
that mentioned anywhere. What's your source?

That would certainly explain why he doesn't read much, like the
Presidential Daily Brief describing the pending attack on the WTC that
he apparently didn't get to because the information was towards the
rear of the brief.

But wait, that doesn't explain his rather ludicrous inability to
speak. Dyslexics speak fine, they just have a hard time reading.,
There must be something else going on besides dyslexia.

Corky Scott

Badwater Bill wrote:


>
> You got a laugh out of me on this one. How true. The problem with
> both the Bush baby and Kerry is that they are both pathological
> liars. I think Michael Moore is an illiterate, but his fictional
> movies about "I hate America" do cause people to enter into dialog
> and dicuss
> important issues. One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
> truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that,
> however, my problem is...that Kerry is too!
>
> I don't think either of these candidates would know the truth if it
> bit them in the ass.
>
> Is this the best that my country can offer me as a voter to choose
> from? I find it sickening.
>
> Bill Phillips

We live in a democracy.
We want a pathological liar to be president.
Why else would two pathological liars be running for president?
If the American people wanted an honest person to be president,
they would vote for Nader.

On 24 Aug 2004 07:05:24 -0700, (Rob
Schneider) wrote:

>Maybe right now there's nothing better anywhere else on the planet,
>but I think the founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves
>if they knew what our electoral process has mutated into. IMHO, we
>aren't the country we used to be, and most people simply just don't
>care.

I agree. The amendment which enabled direct election of US senators
by the populace should be repealed.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:06:18 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

> One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
>my problem is...that Kerry is too!

I guess it really does take one to know one.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:19:39 GMT, "Dave Hyde" > wrote:

>Del Rawlins wrote...
>
>> ...they should have left
>> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
>
>I thought better of you, Del. Whether you
>respect a man or not, a comment like this is
>just unfathomable.

Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
wartime service) and deserves no better.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

Badwater Bill wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:25:25 GMT,
> (Del Rawlins) wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK. Here we have a guy who received two of his Purple Hearts for self
>>>inflicted wounds, left one of his buddies for dead while fleeing an
>>>imaginary attack and only went back for him when another boat turned back,
>>>by his own admission killed a baby and committed other war crimes, went home
>>>and disgraced the medals he is now so proud of, betrayed everyone else who
>>>served in Vietnam by appearing before the Fulbright Commission and claiming
>>>that everyone who served there was a war criminal and baby killer (speak for
>>>yourself, John!)
>>
>>Yup. Either Kerry told the truth and should be prosecuted for war
>>crimes, or he lied and should be prosecuted for perjury.
>>
>>
>>================================================== ==
>>Del Rawlins--
>
>
> You got a laugh out of me on this one. How true. The problem with
> both the Bush baby and Kerry is that they are both pathological liars.
> I think Michael Moore is an illiterate, but his fictional movies about
> "I hate America" do cause people to enter into dialog and dicuss
> important issues. One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
> truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
> my problem is...that Kerry is too!

The trouble is that Moore is a pathological liar who is calling other
pathological liars liars! So, we can't believe any of them.


Matt

"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:19:39 GMT, "Dave Hyde" > wrote:
>
> >Del Rawlins wrote...
> >
> >> ...they should have left
> >> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
> >
> >I thought better of you, Del. Whether you
> >respect a man or not, a comment like this is
> >just unfathomable.
>
> Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
> wartime service) and deserves no better.
>
>

Pore ol' Ichabod. John McCain is a threat to his freedom to be a
clod-hopper, chase sasquatches, and, well, be an ichabod.

>From: "PAW"
>Date: 8/24/2004 7:21 AM Central Daylight Time


> Here, let me try this. In my opinion GW Bush is an idiot! :) Why? Any man
>that tosses his flight training in the trash can, as GW Bush did, must have
>a screw loose.
>
>Phil

Did it ever occur to you not everyone wants to fly? Are they all idiots?


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

>From: Corky Scott
>Date: 8/24/2004 12:08 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 24 Aug 2004 04:07:43 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
>
>>You just don't get it do you? Saying "Bush is an idiot, period" is not an
>>argument it is a statement by someone who doesn't want an intelligent
>>discussion. We have had presidents who have pulled some idiotic stunts, but
>we
>>have never had an "idiot" for a president. The fact he completed a master's
>>degree should tell you otherwise. He's dyslexic and to have got a 4 year
>degree
>>is very difficult for dyslexic. I ought to know since I am also dyslexic. If
>>you and I had met to discuss the election and you started out that way you
>>would immediately find yourself alone.
>
>Wait, he's dyslexic? Is that common knowledge? Why hasn't that been
>broadly mentioned before in the news media, or has it? I don't know,
>I rarely watch network news. But I read the papers and haven't seen
>that mentioned anywhere. What's your source?
>
>That would certainly explain why he doesn't read much, like the
>Presidential Daily Brief describing the pending attack on the WTC that
>he apparently didn't get to because the information was towards the
>rear of the brief.
>
>But wait, that doesn't explain his rather ludicrous inability to
>speak. Dyslexics speak fine, they just have a hard time reading.,
>There must be something else going on besides dyslexia.
>
>Corky Scott

It came out during the 2000 campaign. There was something about his wife
reading the daily reports to him. It was discussed a bit in the media. I just
don't recall who carried it.

I never said dyslexia caused speech problems. I know better. The point I was
making was that a speech impediment doesn't make a man an idiot. I pointed out
I have one too. I never made a link between dyslexia and his speech problems.
However there are those who point to that and say it's proof Bush is a moron.
If that's the case Steven Hawking is brain dead.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article >, Badwater Bill says...
> One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
>my problem is...that Kerry is too!


As is Moore his Bowling for Columbine was full of lies and distortions. Like the
scene when he made the deposit at the bank to recieve a firearm .The perception
he created was that all you need do is go to the bank that was having the gun
give away promotion and you walk out with a gun. The reality was he had to wait
for a background check and didn't get the gun the same day. Sounds a lot like a
tactic of someone else I know...

Chuck S

In article >, Del Rawlins says...
>Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
>wartime service) and deserves no better.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that way.I see Kerry and McCain as
Benedict Arnolds. He was a hero too...for a while.

See ya

Chuck

>..
>> >>
>> >> I am ****ed as hell at Bush but Kerry's voting record in the Senate is
>a
>> >> greater fear to me than four more years of Bush. I only wish there has
>> >been an
>> >> honest choice for President this year.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bob Reed
>> >> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>> >> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>> >>
>> >> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>> >> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>> >> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>> >>
>> >
>> >There was. It was four years ago when the Republican party allowed GW
>Bush &
>> >Co. to drag his name through the mud.
>> >
>> >Phil Williamson
>> >
>>
>> Please, don't tell me you are talking about Al (I suddenly got religion)
>Gore.
>> What a friggen joke. He goes to Viet Nam as a journalist, never got close
>to
>> the fighting, suddenly got religion and sent back stateside to attend
>divinity
>> school only to drop out a few months later. Yes, he has a lot of room to
>throw
>> stones from inside his own glass house.
>>
>> As for Kerry, he threw his medals away when it suited his purpose but now
>wants
>> to retrieve them and wear them as some sort of badge of honor. Sorry, you
>> threw them away and don't deserve to put them back on now.
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>>
>> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>
> I'm talking about Mr. John McCain. :)
>
>Phil
>
>

I will never doubt for a moment that John McCain was a hero and is one man who
speaks his mind no matter what but I would never want him as President.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>
>>
>> You got a laugh out of me on this one. How true. The problem with
>> both the Bush baby and Kerry is that they are both pathological
>> liars. I think Michael Moore is an illiterate, but his fictional
>> movies about "I hate America" do cause people to enter into dialog
>> and dicuss
>> important issues. One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>> truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that,
>> however, my problem is...that Kerry is too!
>>
>> I don't think either of these candidates would know the truth if it
>> bit them in the ass.
>>
>> Is this the best that my country can offer me as a voter to choose
>> from? I find it sickening.
>>
>> Bill Phillips
>
>We live in a democracy.
>We want a pathological liar to be president.
>Why else would two pathological liars be running for president?
>If the American people wanted an honest person to be president,
>they would vote for Nader.
>

Nader? You have to be kidding. Nader has built his entire career and
reputation on being a professional liar.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

>
>>
>>We only have two people to choose from because the American People have
>>decided
>>that is what they want. When they finally get sick of the candidates put
>>forth
>>by those two parties, they will finally accept one or more additional
>>parties.
>>It is not a false democracy, only what the people are willing to accept.
>>
>>
>>Bob Reed
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I think of it more like a pendulum. After one party is in power for a while,
>its activists push its agenda so far in its favorite direction that the
>people
>in the middle get a gut feeling that things have gone too far and they join
>the
>other side to throw the rascals out.
>
>When the opposite party gains power, their activists inevitably push their
>agenda so far in the opposite direction that we eventually have to throw them
>out. Its a messy business with things getting out of hand about half the time
>but with a fairly happy median.
>
>Fortunately the "Ship of State" is so ponderous that things don't get too far
>out of hand during any one administration to cause irreversible recovery.
>
>Dave Tate
>

I agree Dave, it just seems that the pendulum keeps swinging faster and to an
ever greater extreem. I would really like to see a mid point reached for a
while.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Del Rawlins wrote...

>> ...they should have left
>> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
....
> Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
> wartime service) and deserves no better.

No prisoner of war deserves to be left behind.

Dave '' Hyde

On 23 Aug 2004 14:05:23 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:

>My first thought when I read a statement such as "Bush is an idiot, period"
>is...If Bush is such an Idiot and you are so damn smart, why aren't you the
>President?
>
>Bob Reed
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Smart and savvy folks don't run for President.
Take Colin Powell and Cheney for example.

Only an bona fide idiot would seek to embarrass himself in a 2nd term.


Barnyard BOb -

..net> wrote:

>Del Rawlins wrote...
>
>> ...they should have left
>> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
>
>I thought better of you, Del. Whether you
>respect a man or not, a comment like this is
>just unfathomable.
>
>Dave '' Hyde
====================================

I would hope that Del has the patriotic senator
and war hero confused with Hanoi Jane [Fonda].


Barnyard BOb - a conservative but not a Republican

>"Thomas Cuny" wrote in message > If the American people wanted an
>honest person to be president, they would vote for Nader.

Hmm....
And what would the author of 'Unsafe at Any Speed' do as president? He'd
outlaw Corvair conversions for homebuilts, then outlaw homebuilts
altogether, and then outlaw general aviation.

GreenPeace is wonderful, until they are after you.

D.

"Thomas Cuny" > wrote

> We live in a democracy.
> We want a pathological liar to be president.
> Why else would two pathological liars be running for president?
> If the American people wanted an honest person to be president,
> they would vote for Nader.

BULL****!!!!

Nader is as two faced as they come. Ever wonder why he doesn't drive, but
is a great automobile advocate?

As those who loved the Corvair what they think of him. Don't even get me
started.
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:44:23 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"Thomas Cuny" > wrote
>
>> We live in a democracy.
>> We want a pathological liar to be president.
>> Why else would two pathological liars be running for president?
>> If the American people wanted an honest person to be president,
>> they would vote for Nader.
>
>BULL****!!!!
>
>Nader is as two faced as they come. Ever wonder why he doesn't drive, but
>is a great automobile advocate?
>
>As those who loved the Corvair what they think of him. Don't even get me
>started.

One thing I like about Nader ..., hell I don't think he owns a dog or
a cat. I got nothing.
--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

In article >, Dave Hyde says...
>
>Del Rawlins wrote...
>
>>> ...they should have left
>>> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
>...
>> Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
>> wartime service) and deserves no better.
>
>No prisoner of war deserves to be left behind.

that's very true and sadly it seems that many were left behind starting with
WW I.

Chuck S

Dave Hyde wrote:

> Del Rawlins wrote...
>
>
>>>...they should have left
>>>that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
>
> ...
>
>>Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
>>wartime service) and deserves no better.
>
>
> No prisoner of war deserves to be left behind.

I agree. I think McCain's current positions on many things are
despicable, but anyone who goes to war on our behalf deserves to come home.


Matt

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:55:20 GMT, "Dave Hyde" > wrote:

>Del Rawlins wrote...
>
>>> ...they should have left
>>> that ******* to rot in the Hanoi Hilton.
>...
>> Think what you will. McCain is now an enemy of freedom (despite his
>> wartime service) and deserves no better.
>
>No prisoner of war deserves to be left behind.

I have to admit that you are right about that, but I still believe he
deserves to be there NOW. One thing which I will never understand is
how somebody like him, who has suffered firsthand at the hands of a
totalitarian regime, can be so bent on turning his own country into
that which he fought against.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

In article >,
PAW > wrote:
>
>
> Here, let me try this. In my opinion GW Bush is an idiot! :) Why? Any man
>that tosses his flight training in the trash can, as GW Bush did, must have
>a screw loose.
>

Please elucidate _why_ you feel that conclusion follows from the premise.

Does this logic apply to _every_ veteran who didn't continue in a career that
the military provided training for?

What about combat infantrymen that did chose _not_ to become mercenaries?

What's an EWO (Electronics Warfare Officer) to do?

How about a bombardier?


Or is it simply that Bush's actions runs counter to your religion's mantra
that there is no higher aspiration than flying?

"Thomas Cuny" > wrote in message
...
> Badwater Bill wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You got a laugh out of me on this one. How true. The problem with
>> both the Bush baby and Kerry is that they are both pathological
>> liars. I think Michael Moore is an illiterate, but his fictional
>> movies about "I hate America" do cause people to enter into dialog
>> and dicuss
>> important issues. One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>> truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that,
>> however, my problem is...that Kerry is too!
>>
>> I don't think either of these candidates would know the truth if it
>> bit them in the ass.
>>
>> Is this the best that my country can offer me as a voter to choose
>> from? I find it sickening.
>>
>> Bill Phillips
>
> We live in a democracy.
> We want a pathological liar to be president.
> Why else would two pathological liars be running for president?
> If the American people wanted an honest person to be president,
> they would vote for Nader.

You are kidding, right? Tell me you are kidding. Nader is one of the most
dishonest people alive.

Personally, I don't think it is so much a choice between pathological liars
as it is between, um, Darth Vader and Gollum.

Vader: "Bring me the prisoners! I want them alive!"

Gollum (tracing heart shaped medallion on his hand): "Soooo beautiful. Soooo
preciousss."

Vader: "I find your lack of support for the war disturbing."

Gollum: "We hates Bushes, Preciousss. They are tricksy. They lied to usss.
We musst defeat them, and then we be the masster!"

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:19:06 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> > wrote:
>
> :Personally, I don't think it is so much a choice between pathological
> liars
> :as it is between, um, Darth Vader and Gollum.
> :
> :Vader: "Bring me the prisoners! I want them alive!"
> :
> :Gollum (tracing heart shaped medallion on his hand): "Soooo beautiful.
> Soooo
> :preciousss."
> :
> :Vader: "I find your lack of support for the war disturbing."
> :
> :Gollum: "We hates Bushes, Preciousss. They are tricksy. They lied to
> usss.
> :We musst defeat them, and then we be the masster!"
>
> I like that.
>
> Of course, I also think that if we're fighting a war and we've GOT a
> Vader, I want to use him.
>

You want to use a guy who repeatedly allowed his entire army to be destroyed
by a band of teenage rebels?

C J Campbell wrote...

> You want to use a guy who repeatedly allowed his
> entire army to be destroyed by a band of teenage
> rebels?

He would've gotten away with it if it weren't for
those meddling kids and their stupid dog.

Dave 'cereal killer' Hyde

>The trouble is that Moore is a pathological liar who is calling other
>pathological liars liars! So, we can't believe any of them.
>
>
>Matt


Good one Matt! I have to agree with you on this.

Bill

On 24 Aug 2004 16:48:14 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article >, Badwater Bill says...
>> One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>>truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
>>my problem is...that Kerry is too!
>
>
>As is Moore his Bowling for Columbine was full of lies and distortions. Like the
>scene when he made the deposit at the bank to recieve a firearm .The perception
>he created was that all you need do is go to the bank that was having the gun
>give away promotion and you walk out with a gun. The reality was he had to wait
>for a background check and didn't get the gun the same day. Sounds a lot like a
>tactic of someone else I know...
>
>Chuck S


Everything about Moore is like this Chuck. In the latest fictional
movie 9-11 he misrepresented almost all of it. He offers anyone a
reward to prove that there is anything untruthful about the movie. It
just goes to show that the manipulation of the English language by the
media can portray any emotion or opinion it desires, without lying (in
the text). It's an interesting thing actually. Moore is a master of
the art of propoganda. He can create an emotion in an individual that
is 180 degrees from the truth, but can do it by speaking words that
would be interpreted in court as the truth. Of course you need the
camera too. Without the camera I don't think it would work.

I think Moore is a master at propoganda. I'd give the guy an Oscar
just because he's an artist at manipulating our language, the camera
shots, and the emotion to create the emotional effect he desires,
without ever really telling a lie in the sense of the use of words to
do it.

The guy is tallented. The trouble is that I think he hurts our
country by what he does. That's where I draw the line between the
asshole and a respectable human being. Someone will bitch-slap the
**** out of him before it's over. You'll see.

BWB

Badwater Bill wrote:

> On 24 Aug 2004 16:48:14 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >, Badwater Bill says...
>>
>>> One thing Moore is convinced of is that Bush is
>>>truely a pathological liar. I might have to agree with that, however,
>>>my problem is...that Kerry is too!
>>
>>
>>As is Moore his Bowling for Columbine was full of lies and distortions. Like the
>>scene when he made the deposit at the bank to recieve a firearm .The perception
>>he created was that all you need do is go to the bank that was having the gun
>>give away promotion and you walk out with a gun. The reality was he had to wait
>>for a background check and didn't get the gun the same day. Sounds a lot like a
>>tactic of someone else I know...
>>
>>Chuck S
>
>
>
> Everything about Moore is like this Chuck. In the latest fictional
> movie 9-11 he misrepresented almost all of it. He offers anyone a
> reward to prove that there is anything untruthful about the movie. It
> just goes to show that the manipulation of the English language by the
> media can portray any emotion or opinion it desires, without lying (in
> the text). It's an interesting thing actually. Moore is a master of
> the art of propoganda. He can create an emotion in an individual that
> is 180 degrees from the truth, but can do it by speaking words that
> would be interpreted in court as the truth. Of course you need the
> camera too. Without the camera I don't think it would work.
>
> I think Moore is a master at propoganda. I'd give the guy an Oscar
> just because he's an artist at manipulating our language, the camera
> shots, and the emotion to create the emotional effect he desires,
> without ever really telling a lie in the sense of the use of words to
> do it.
>
> The guy is tallented. The trouble is that I think he hurts our
> country by what he does. That's where I draw the line between the
> asshole and a respectable human being. Someone will bitch-slap the
> **** out of him before it's over. You'll see.

You hold him and I'll .... :-)

Matt

In article >,
(Badwater Bill) wrote:

>
> Everything about Moore is like this Chuck. In the latest fictional
> movie 9-11 he misrepresented almost all of it. He offers anyone a
> reward to prove that there is anything untruthful about the movie. It
> just goes to show that the manipulation of the English language by the
> media can portray any emotion or opinion it desires, without lying (in
> the text). It's an interesting thing actually. Moore is a master of
> the art of propoganda. He can create an emotion in an individual that
> is 180 degrees from the truth, but can do it by speaking words that
> would be interpreted in court as the truth. Of course you need the
> camera too. Without the camera I don't think it would work.
>
> I think Moore is a master at propoganda. I'd give the guy an Oscar
> just because he's an artist at manipulating our language, the camera
> shots, and the emotion to create the emotional effect he desires,
> without ever really telling a lie in the sense of the use of words to
> do it.
>
> The guy is tallented. The trouble is that I think he hurts our
> country by what he does. That's where I draw the line between the
> asshole and a respectable human being. Someone will bitch-slap the
> **** out of him before it's over. You'll see.
>
> BWB

OT, but my favorite "lie" is in a commercial for a weight loss product
where they offer a "money back guarantee that you will lose up to 50 lbs
simply by using their product."

LG

Well I realy think that this country is better off with the lieing
awol, diserting MOTHER ****ER that we have now.
just my thoughts on this matter.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:31:33 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

>This was emailed to me. I don't doubt the authenticity of it's
>intent, I just wonder if it's for real? Anybody know?
>
>BWB
>______________________________________________
>
>
>
>Subject: Fw: Observations by an Air Force Pilot
>
>I'm confident that in approximately 15 minutes this article will be in
>the inboxes of every resident of the free world and maybe even a few
>people in France.
>
>Chris Thomas, Air Force Pilot:
>
>I would like to add my two cents about my John Kerry experience.
>
>During my career as an Air Force pilot, I spent two years flying a
>small twin engine prop plane around the Pacific from my base in
>Okinawa, Japan. On one trip we had to fly Senator Kerry, his
>congressional aide, and a Navy Captain (Vietnam, A-4 fighter pilot)
>
>who was also in Kerry's party to various locations in Vietnam and
>Cambodia as part of the MIA/POW talks.
>
>When I met him, he was wearing a shirt with a picture of his sailboat
>on it. I told him I had a 27' sailboat in Okinawa, he remarked "Oh I
>never sail on anything less than 135 feet."
>
>Thanks, Senator, "I feel even better about the meager salary I get
>paid for flying you around the Pacific."
>
>When we first flew him into Phnom Penh, he went to the back of the
>airplane and grabbed the pizza that was put aside for the crew and
>passed it around to his staff. He was never offered any pizza because
>they were supposed to have lunch with the Cambodian government when we
>landed. The pizza was the crew's only meal for that day and he ate
>it.
>
>Then when we picked him up in Cambodia, he was an hour late getting to
>the airport. Because fuel was an issue, we could not start the engines
>and therefore the air conditioning until he arrived. Phnom Penh at
>that time was over 100 degrees with 95% humidity and we were basically
>sitting in a greenhouse behind the cockpit windows.
>
>When he finally did arrive, we were wringing out our clothes from the
>perspiration. He walks out of the air conditioned car, into the
>airplane and asks us "Could you guys get the air-conditioning running,
>I'm a little warm?" The other pilot had to physically restrain me from
>going back there and picking a fight.
>
>Then we took him into Noi Bai airfield in Hanoi. After we picked him
>up the next day (he stayed the night in Vietnam, we stayed in Bangkok)
>we taxied out, ran up the engines for take off and noticed that our
>prop rpm was vibrating all over the place. We taxied off to the side
>to look at it, but there was a good possibility that there was an
>engine malfunction and the engine may fail if we took off with it.
>
>Well, Mr. Senator sticks his head up in the cockpit and says "This
>plane WILL take off, I have a press conference in Bangkok in three
>hours!"
>
>(Maybe this is an indication of how he will run the FAA).
>
>American service members lives be damned, we had our Senatorial
>orders. We ran the engines again, and did not have the problem, so we
>took off and made it back. During the flight, he told everyone how he
>had taken a Cessna (a small General aviation plane)up with a fighter
>pilot, and the fighter pilot remarked that Kerry was one of the best
>pilots he had ever seen.
>
>I don't know about other pilots out there, but it's hard to imagine a
>little, single-engine prop plane pilot being able to show the "right
>stuff."
>
>After Kerry left the plane, the Navy Captain came up to us, apologized
>and said basically that "he knows Kerry is a jerk" and that we should
>be glad we don't have to deal with him every day.
>
>Your choice folks.
>
>Elections in November.
>
>You want a mega-millionaire ego-maniac it's-all-about-me
>crew-eating-pizza-ite like Kerry or maybe a Green Party candidate like
>Ralph Nader?
>
>Or George Bush, a nice God fearing Christian bent on protecting us
>from terrorist attacks on US soil?
>
>Hmmm, let's see?
>
>Continued freedom under President Bush or bombs in our backyard under
>Kerry (who will be sailing on his "minimum 135' yacht").
>
>As Fox would say, "we report. You decide."
>
>
>
>
>

>From:
>Date: 8/29/2004 7:16 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Well I realy think that this country is better off with the lieing
>awol, diserting MOTHER ****ER that we have now.
>just my thoughts on this matter.
>

May I suggest a spell checker?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:16:18 GMT, wrote:

>Well I realy think that this country is better off with the lieing
>awol, diserting MOTHER ****ER that we have now.
>just my thoughts on this matter.
>

Keep your mother off the street.

In article >, Matt Whiting says...
>
>Badwater Bill wrote:
>> Everything about Moore is like this Chuck. In the latest fictional
>> movie 9-11 he misrepresented almost all of it. He offers anyone a
>> reward to prove that there is anything untruthful about the movie. It
>> just goes to show that the manipulation of the English language by the
>> media can portray any emotion or opinion it desires, without lying (in
>> the text). It's an interesting thing actually. Moore is a master of
>> the art of propoganda. He can create an emotion in an individual that
>> is 180 degrees from the truth, but can do it by speaking words that
>> would be interpreted in court as the truth. Of course you need the
>> camera too. Without the camera I don't think it would work.
>>
>> I think Moore is a master at propoganda. I'd give the guy an Oscar
>> just because he's an artist at manipulating our language, the camera
>> shots, and the emotion to create the emotional effect he desires,
>> without ever really telling a lie in the sense of the use of words to
>> do it.

All we need do is exchange Moore's name for zooms and we see a striking
similarity. In fact I just got another "award" from his zoomness. Here's his
latest rant from ANN on 8/27/04.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________


(Rant Mode "On") Yup... he's STILL at it.
Ultralight Aviation's Ever-Present Clown/Part-Time Rip-Off
Artist, Chuck Slusarczyk of CGS Aviation (Repeat Award).
Every time we go to these events, this clown parades around this
silly "Zoom Free Zone" sign trying to intimate that he is being
picked on by ANN's Editor-In-Chief, Jim "Zoom" Campbell. Campbell
has written extensively about the problems experienced by a number
(but not all) of Slusarczyk's customers. While a number of CGS
Aviation Hawk owners are rightfully happy with their aircraft
(which can be a delightful little flyer), this character still
pulls enough shady moves that we can not recommend him and whenever
we note this, a new round of personal attacks, falsehoods and other
crapola emerges.
Fact: A number of CGS customers have had unpleasant experiences
with the company and Mr. Slusarczyk.
Fact: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or
been cheated by CGS.
Fact: A number of people who have complained about CGS and/or
Slusarczyk have been the recipients of personal attacks and threats
from same.
Fact: CGS has been successfully sued by unhappy customers and is
still in the process of defending itself against same in other
venues.
Fact: What "Zoom Free Zone" really means (to us and many others) is
that the person who displays this nonsense is an immature fool
(IMO) who won't make good for his "shortfalls" in customer service
and will NOT get a positive recommendation from Jim Campbell or
anybody else at ANN until he satisfies those aggrieved parties and
all the personal attacks, threats, imbecilic signs, and rumor
mongering by Chuck and his cyber-terrorist buddies will not change
that (but it will keep us laughing our asses off at this deluded,
pathetic character). This guy is more in need of a dose of reality
than anyone we know... (Rant Mode "Off")


As rants go I give it an 8 I've seen better. If he doesn't like my zoom free
zone sign wait till he sees the neon model for next year LOL!!! So this year at
Oshkosh I got 2 awards, one from Kitplanes and the other from zoom.Guess which
one means something? :-)

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

"credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s

I was hoping that the childish rants had stopped!


"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Matt Whiting says...
> >
> >Badwater Bill wrote:
> >> Everything about Moore is like this Chuck. In the latest fictional
> >> movie 9-11 he misrepresented almost all of it. He offers anyone a
> >> reward to prove that there is anything untruthful about the movie. It
> >> just goes to show that the manipulation of the English language by the
> >> media can portray any emotion or opinion it desires, without lying (in
> >> the text). It's an interesting thing actually. Moore is a master of
> >> the art of propoganda. He can create an emotion in an individual that
> >> is 180 degrees from the truth, but can do it by speaking words that
> >> would be interpreted in court as the truth. Of course you need the
> >> camera too. Without the camera I don't think it would work.
> >>
> >> I think Moore is a master at propoganda. I'd give the guy an Oscar
> >> just because he's an artist at manipulating our language, the camera
> >> shots, and the emotion to create the emotional effect he desires,
> >> without ever really telling a lie in the sense of the use of words to
> >> do it.
>
> All we need do is exchange Moore's name for zooms and we see a striking
> similarity. In fact I just got another "award" from his zoomness. Here's
his
> latest rant from ANN on 8/27/04.
>
__________________________________________________ __________________________
__
>
>
> (Rant Mode "On") Yup... he's STILL at it.
> Ultralight Aviation's Ever-Present Clown/Part-Time Rip-Off
> Artist, Chuck Slusarczyk of CGS Aviation (Repeat Award).
> Every time we go to these events, this clown parades around this
> silly "Zoom Free Zone" sign trying to intimate that he is being
> picked on by ANN's Editor-In-Chief, Jim "Zoom" Campbell. Campbell
> has written extensively about the problems experienced by a number
> (but not all) of Slusarczyk's customers. While a number of CGS
> Aviation Hawk owners are rightfully happy with their aircraft
> (which can be a delightful little flyer), this character still
> pulls enough shady moves that we can not recommend him and whenever
> we note this, a new round of personal attacks, falsehoods and other
> crapola emerges.
> Fact: A number of CGS customers have had unpleasant experiences
> with the company and Mr. Slusarczyk.
> Fact: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or
> been cheated by CGS.
> Fact: A number of people who have complained about CGS and/or
> Slusarczyk have been the recipients of personal attacks and threats
> from same.
> Fact: CGS has been successfully sued by unhappy customers and is
> still in the process of defending itself against same in other
> venues.
> Fact: What "Zoom Free Zone" really means (to us and many others) is
> that the person who displays this nonsense is an immature fool
> (IMO) who won't make good for his "shortfalls" in customer service
> and will NOT get a positive recommendation from Jim Campbell or
> anybody else at ANN until he satisfies those aggrieved parties and
> all the personal attacks, threats, imbecilic signs, and rumor
> mongering by Chuck and his cyber-terrorist buddies will not change
> that (but it will keep us laughing our asses off at this deluded,
> pathetic character). This guy is more in need of a dose of reality
> than anyone we know... (Rant Mode "Off")
>
>
> As rants go I give it an 8 I've seen better. If he doesn't like my zoom
free
> zone sign wait till he sees the neon model for next year LOL!!! So this
year at
> Oshkosh I got 2 awards, one from Kitplanes and the other from zoom.Guess
which
> one means something? :-)
>
> Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>
> "credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s
>

>
>All we need do is exchange Moore's name for zooms and we see a striking
>similarity. In fact I just got another "award" from his zoomness. Here's his
>latest rant from ANN on 8/27/04.
>
>__________________________________________________ ____________________________
>
>
>(Rant Mode "On") Yup... he's STILL at it.
>Ultralight Aviation's Ever-Present Clown/Part-Time Rip-Off
>Artist, Chuck Slusarczyk of CGS Aviation (Repeat Award).
>Every time we go to these events, this clown parades around this
>silly "Zoom Free Zone" sign trying to intimate that he is being
>picked on by ANN's Editor-In-Chief, Jim "Zoom" Campbell. Campbell
>has written extensively about the problems experienced by a number

Gee Chuck, I have missed the parade every time I have been to Oshkosh. In
fact, the only times I ever saw the "Zoom Free Zone" was when I passed by your
booth or any of a dozen other booths on the grounds. By the way folks, CGS was
not the only one displaying the sign.

Please, in the future, publish the times and dates for the parade.

>(but not all) of Slusarczyk's customers. While a number of CGS
>Aviation Hawk owners are rightfully happy with their aircraft
>(which can be a delightful little flyer), this character still
>pulls enough shady moves that we can not recommend him and whenever
>we note this, a new round of personal attacks, falsehoods and other
>crapola emerges.

Considering that he notes it every few months without every producing ONE
SINGLE SHRED of PROOF, he has little room to whine.

>Fact: A number of CGS customers have had unpleasant experiences
>with the company and Mr. Slusarczyk.

FACT: A number of ANN customers have had unpleasant experiences with the
company and ZOOM.

>Fact: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or
>been cheated by CGS.

FACT: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or possibly
been cheated by ANN and ZOOM.

>Fact: A number of people who have complained about CGS and/or
>Slusarczyk have been the recipients of personal attacks and threats
>from same.

FACT: A number of people who have complained about ANN and/or Zoom have been
the recipients of personal attacks and threats from same. (Personal experience
here)

>Fact: CGS has been successfully sued by unhappy customers and is
>still in the process of defending itself against same in other
>venues.

FACT: ZOOM has been sued, declared bankruptcy, and has tried to sue more
people than I can count.

>Fact: What "Zoom Free Zone" really means (to us and many others) is
>that the person who displays this nonsense is an immature fool
>(IMO) who won't make good for his "shortfalls" in customer service
>and will NOT get a positive recommendation from Jim Campbell or
>anybody else at ANN until he satisfies those aggrieved parties and
>all the personal attacks, threats, imbecilic signs, and rumor
>mongering by Chuck and his cyber-terrorist buddies will not change
>that (but it will keep us laughing our asses off at this deluded,
>pathetic character). This guy is more in need of a dose of reality
>than anyone we know... (Rant Mode "Off")
>

FACT: The above sounds like an autobiography by Zoom about Zoom.

>
>As rants go I give it an 8 I've seen better. If he doesn't like my zoom free
>zone sign wait till he sees the neon model for next year LOL!!! So this year
>at
>Oshkosh I got 2 awards, one from Kitplanes and the other from zoom.Guess
>which
>one means something? :-)
>
>Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>
>"credibility it was always about credibility" chuck s
>
>

Chuck, I would suggest you pass on that rant to your lawyer. I would say that
Zoom crossed the line on several points and you have just cause for action
against him this time.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

"Cy Galley" > wrote in message
news:9hQYc.5842$_g7.5466@attbi_s52...
> I was hoping that the childish rants had stopped!

I am pro-rant.

"C.D.Damron" > wrote in message
news:an_Yc.212128$8_6.148320@attbi_s04...
>
> "Cy Galley" > wrote in message
> news:9hQYc.5842$_g7.5466@attbi_s52...
> > I was hoping that the childish rants had stopped!
>
> I am pro-rant.
>
> I was hoping that Jim was going to move on, stop the rants, but I can see
he hasn't learned much.

"Cy Galley" > wrote in message news:<9hQYc.5842$_g7.5466@attbi_s52>...
> I was hoping that the childish rants had stopped!
>
>

<snip>

I doubt that they will until both zoom and Juan grow up past the
apparent 14yoa age they seem to be stuck in.

Harry K

"Robert Bonomi" > wrote:
> Please elucidate _why_ you feel that conclusion follows from the premise.
>
> Does this logic apply to _every_ veteran who didn't continue in a career
that
> the military provided training for?
>
> What about combat infantrymen that did chose _not_ to become mercenaries?
>
> What's an EWO (Electronics Warfare Officer) to do?

Yeah! Everyone bitches about the mess that ATC is in, but nobody takes
countermeasures. Get me an EWO (now DSO, IIRC).

Russell Kent
son of Capt. Gene Kent, USAF (discharged), B-52 EWO

In article >, RobertR237 says...

>Gee Chuck, I have missed the parade every time I have been to Oshkosh.

We had it a little earlier this year because of the rain. Too bad you missed it
we had a gala group of marchers. The "Ripped off Subscribers" had a great float
complete with copies of canceled checks and no magazines. The "Battle of the
Sukoi G's" group had a Float with a paper mache Sukoi model that looped rolled
and spun . The "RAH-14" all marched with giant copies of the lawsuits zoom filed
against them.

"The zoomed ,the proud, the many" Association had a giant motorized Medical bag
with a large photo of the young Dr Campbell sticking out of it and a large duck
going Quack! Quack!!


The biggest group was a mix of ex employees,girlfriends,
ex ad salesmen and ex advertizers carrying banners that stated "we were zoomed
and survived." The group looked like a who's who of general and sport aviation.
Gee I'm sorry you missed the Parade I was the Grand Marshal this year and I was
resplendent in a tux with my hand painted I've been zoomed shirt Tee shirt.

We need a new Grand Marshal for next years Parade and I nominate Tim Kerns.


> In
>fact, the only times I ever saw the "Zoom Free Zone" was when I passed by your
>booth or any of a dozen other booths on the grounds. By the way folks, CGS was
>not the only one displaying the sign.

Funny, every year I get more and more requests for them. :-)

>
>Please, in the future, publish the times and dates for the parade.

I'll make an effort to do just that LOL!!!

>
>>(but not all) of Slusarczyk's customers. While a number of CGS
>>Aviation Hawk owners are rightfully happy with their aircraft
>>(which can be a delightful little flyer), this character still
>>pulls enough shady moves that we can not recommend him and whenever
>>we note this, a new round of personal attacks, falsehoods and other
>>crapola emerges.
>
>Considering that he notes it every few months without every producing ONE
>SINGLE SHRED of PROOF, he has little room to whine.
>
>>Fact: A number of CGS customers have had unpleasant experiences
>>with the company and Mr. Slusarczyk.
>
>FACT: A number of ANN customers have had unpleasant experiences with the
>company and ZOOM.
>
>>Fact: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or
>>been cheated by CGS.
>
>FACT: A number of people have NOT gotten what they paid for and/or possibly
>been cheated by ANN and ZOOM.
>
>>Fact: A number of people who have complained about CGS and/or
>>Slusarczyk have been the recipients of personal attacks and threats
>>from same.
>
>FACT: A number of people who have complained about ANN and/or Zoom have been
>the recipients of personal attacks and threats from same. (Personal experience
>here)
>
>>Fact: CGS has been successfully sued by unhappy customers and is
>>still in the process of defending itself against same in other
>>venues.
>
>FACT: ZOOM has been sued, declared bankruptcy, and has tried to sue more
>people than I can count.
>
>>Fact: What "Zoom Free Zone" really means (to us and many others) is
>>that the person who displays this nonsense is an immature fool
>>(IMO) who won't make good for his "shortfalls" in customer service
>>and will NOT get a positive recommendation from Jim Campbell or
>>anybody else at ANN until he satisfies those aggrieved parties and
>>all the personal attacks, threats, imbecilic signs, and rumor
>>mongering by Chuck and his cyber-terrorist buddies will not change
>>that (but it will keep us laughing our asses off at this deluded,
>>pathetic character). This guy is more in need of a dose of reality
>>than anyone we know... (Rant Mode "Off")
>>
>
>FACT: The above sounds like an autobiography by Zoom about Zoom.

>
>Chuck, I would suggest you pass on that rant to your lawyer. I would say that
>Zoom crossed the line on several points and you have just cause for action
>against him this time.

Been done and another Duck is in the row......

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret.

"evil didn't prosper because good men spoke and evil was nuts" anon

In article <2%_Yc.91746$Fg5.36588@attbi_s53>, Cy Galley says...

>> I am pro-rant.
>>
>> I was hoping that Jim was going to move on, stop the rants, but I can see
>he hasn't learned much.

If one were to study the zoom rants over the years you would see a sine wave
of activity, first a quiet spell,then activity,then a quiet spell. He uses the
quiet spell to gain time and have people forget what he has done . Then with a
new group of newbies he starts again. The only thing different now is that with
the Internet he can't bully people like he used too and Google has a long
memory.

However he still runs ads companies don't want and threatens to sue them or does
sue them if they don't play ball. A company I know pays him what they call
Chump change of $100 per month just to keep him off their back.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

This is an open letter to the coward that called my shop today and used some
pretty vulgar language to one of my employees. If you had the courage of your
convictions and truth on your side you would have left your name and phone
number.

I know you read this list since you mentioned it to my employee. I invite you
to call and talk to "me" and I'll be glad to discuss the matter with you.
However I will tell you that I will tape record the conversation and invite you
to do the same. I have nothing to hide and if your an honorable person that has
a different opinion after hearing my side,so be it. But lets do this without the
vulgarity and in a sane manner. I do find it interesting that over the years
anyone who defends zoom always resorts foul language and yelling.

You already have my phone number so I await your call..


Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

In article >,
says...
>
>
>This is an open letter to the coward that called my shop today and use
>d some
>pretty vulgar language to one of my employees. If you had the courage
>of your
>convictions and truth on your side you would have left your name and p
>hone
>number.
>
>I know you read this list since you mentioned it to my employee. I in
>vite you
>to call and talk to "me" and I'll be glad to discuss the matter with y
>ou.
>However I will tell you that I will tape record the conversation and i
>nvite you
>to do the same. I have nothing to hide and if your an honorable person
> that has
>a different opinion after hearing my side,so be it. But lets do this w
>ithout the
>vulgarity and in a sane manner. I do find it interesting that over the
> years
>anyone who defends zoom always resorts foul language and yelling.
>
>You already have my phone number so I await your call..
>
>
>Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret
>


Can the phone company give any help tracking them down? Around here I
can hit *69 and get the number of the last caller without any special
arrangements. They might have a list somewhere if you know the time of
the call. We can also get caller ID and set it up to refuse any calls
that have caller ID blocked. If a customer has it blocked, he can
always unblock it long enough to call you.

Anybody that doesn't have the guts to confront someone honestly doesn't
count for much. Consider it proof that the truth hurt them enough to
make them react that way:)

In article >, sleepy6
says...
>
>Can the phone company give any help tracking them down? Around here I
>can hit *69 and get the number of the last caller without any special
>arrangements. They might have a list somewhere if you know the time of
>the call. We can also get caller ID and set it up to refuse any calls
>that have caller ID blocked. If a customer has it blocked, he can
>always unblock it long enough to call you.
>
>Anybody that doesn't have the guts to confront someone honestly doesn't
>count for much. Consider it proof that the truth hurt them enough to
>make them react that way:)
>

The employee that answered the phone didn't think of hitting *69 because he was
taken back by this call. If it were me that's what I would have done. But in the
past zoomies used a public phone. I suspect that the guy named Simon that wrote
on Fly UL the other day was a zoomie as well if not the same guy.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>
> This is an open letter to the coward that called my shop today and used some
> pretty vulgar language to one of my employees. If you had the courage of your
> convictions and truth on your side you would have left your name and phone
> number.
>
> I know you read this list since you mentioned it to my employee. I invite you
> to call and talk to "me" and I'll be glad to discuss the matter with you.
> However I will tell you that I will tape record the conversation and invite you
> to do the same. I have nothing to hide and if your an honorable person that has
> a different opinion after hearing my side,so be it. But lets do this without the
> vulgarity and in a sane manner. I do find it interesting that over the years
> anyone who defends zoom always resorts foul language and yelling.
>
> You already have my phone number so I await your call..
>
> Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret


I thought the hundred a month was to prevent this sort of thing ?

BTW, Larrys new two place looks pretty nice, I do hope his hirth stays
running well,


--


Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351

On 31 Aug 2004 17:13:18 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article >, RobertR237 says...

>>Gee Chuck, I have missed the parade every time I have been to Oshkosh.

>We had it a little earlier this year because of the rain. Too bad you missed it
>we had a gala group of marchers. The "Ripped off Subscribers" had a great float
>complete with copies of canceled checks and no magazines. The "Battle of the
>Sukoi G's" group had a Float with a paper mache Sukoi model that looped rolled
>and spun . The "RAH-14" all marched with giant copies of the lawsuits zoom filed
>against them.
>
>"The zoomed ,the proud, the many" Association had a giant motorized Medical bag
>with a large photo of the young Dr Campbell sticking out of it and a large duck
>going Quack! Quack!!
>
>
>The biggest group was a mix of ex employees,girlfriends,
>ex ad salesmen and ex advertizers carrying banners that stated "we were zoomed
>and survived." The group looked like a who's who of general and sport aviation.
>Gee I'm sorry you missed the Parade I was the Grand Marshal this year and I was
>resplendent in a tux with my hand painted I've been zoomed shirt Tee shirt.
>
>We need a new Grand Marshal for next years Parade and I nominate Tim Kerns.

LMAO Keep up the good work Chuck.

Wayne

In article >, wmbjk says...
>>>Gee I'm sorry you missed the Parade I was the Grand Marshal this year and I was
>>resplendent in a tux with my hand painted I've been zoomed shirt Tee shirt.
>>
>>We need a new Grand Marshal for next years Parade and I nominate Tim Kerns.
>
>LMAO Keep up the good work Chuck.

I shall strive to do my best by informing one and all about his phoniness and in
providing a laugh or two while doing it :-) Meanwhile I've got to go and loop
,roll and spin an airplane while I deliver food to the starving masses in Africa
after I check my neighbors phugoid for leaks ,he said it was damped while it was
being delightfully obedient to a slightly positive almost negative pitching
moment in time.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-14 ret

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> In article >, wmbjk says...
> >>>Gee I'm sorry you missed the Parade I was the Grand Marshal this year and I was
> >>resplendent in a tux with my hand painted I've been zoomed shirt Tee shirt.
> >>
> >>We need a new Grand Marshal for next years Parade and I nominate Tim Kerns.
> >
> >LMAO Keep up the good work Chuck.
>
> I shall strive to do my best by informing one and all about his phoniness and in
> providing a laugh or two while doing it :-) Meanwhile I've got to go and loop
> ,roll and spin an airplane while I deliver food to the starving masses in Africa
> after I check my neighbors phugoid for leaks ,he said it was damped while it was
> being delightfully obedient to a slightly positive almost negative pitching
> moment in time.
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S RAH-14 ret


Chuckles;

If you were to take it over Vne it would be a perfect example of
zzzzoom speak gibberish.Now I must go and prepare for surgery,
scheduled my girlfriend for a hysterectomy.Hope I don't pass out from
the sight of blood.....

Frank Hitlaw, Jakarta