Sorry about the x-post but didn't know where to ask the question.

I guess I've been living under a rock. I wanted to update the VFR GPS in
the panel to an IFR model. I started getting quotes on recon GNC 300XLs.
The units themselves were about 2,500-3,000. I was shocked to find out that
I had to install an annunciator, a new indicator and approx 30 hrs labor
bringing the total cost to around 8,000. I checked several shops and got
the same story. Is it typical to spend 25% of the value of the aircraft on
just the IFR GPS? If I installed a 530, the receiver and install would
probably cost close to 80% of the value of the aircraft.

Eddie

What really sucks is that if you go through all that expense and effort then
sell the airplane, you won't recover 1/2 of what you spent. It really goes
to show that with all things considered, its a good idea to buy an airplane
with the best avionics you can find.

This was the biggest reason that we didn't opt for a new 430 in our Aztec.
We already had a KLN89B installed, but hated it. We were all 430 pilots and
could run it with our eyes closed. But we chose to buy a KLN 94 because the
it was just a direct swap for the 89B, no install required. Although not as
user friendly as the 430, the $7200 that we saved sure goes a long way
towards having to look at a smaller display and punching a few extra
buttons.

I feel for you.

Jim

"nobody" > wrote in message
. com...
> Sorry about the x-post but didn't know where to ask the question.
>
> I guess I've been living under a rock. I wanted to update the VFR GPS in
> the panel to an IFR model. I started getting quotes on recon GNC 300XLs.
> The units themselves were about 2,500-3,000. I was shocked to find out
> that
> I had to install an annunciator, a new indicator and approx 30 hrs labor
> bringing the total cost to around 8,000. I checked several shops and got
> the same story. Is it typical to spend 25% of the value of the aircraft
> on
> just the IFR GPS? If I installed a 530, the receiver and install would
> probably cost close to 80% of the value of the aircraft.
>
> Eddie
>
>


You know, portables look like a really good idea about now, don't they. If
you ask me, the FAA is simply going to kill a bunch of pilots of older
planes with the whole certification thing. I may just be blowing smoke, but
my guess is that Garmin could sell you two 430 equivalent systems for the
price of one if they could just get the FAA to listen to reason.

For Pete's sake, if you had to get 2 of them, how dependable would they have
to be?

Where are you based at? Maybe we can help you find a better priced shop.
I saved a couple thousand on my 530 by shopping around.

Also, check e-bay. The used boxes don't have a Garmin warrenty but
there are a good number of 430s floating around with people upgrading to
either 530s or 480s.

And in answer to your question, an IFR GPS does cost an arm and a leg.
Expect to sell a few more body parts too to pay for the database
subscription that makes it legal.

Helen

We're based at KIWS (West Houston).

In my ignorance I was hoping to get into an IFR GPS at the low end. It
appears that the low end is still above my top end. I'd love to have a 430,
480, 530, etc.. but just can't justify the cost in a Warrior. We're in the
middle of doing paint, interior and coming up quickly on annual. I can't
spend that much more money on the GPS now. Some of the P&I will come back
in the resale but the avionics won't.

A portable is looking pretty tempting right now.

Ed


"Helen Woods" > wrote in message
...
> Where are you based at? Maybe we can help you find a better priced shop. I
> saved a couple thousand on my 530 by shopping around.
>
> Also, check e-bay. The used boxes don't have a Garmin warrenty but there
> are a good number of 430s floating around with people upgrading to either
> 530s or 480s.
>
> And in answer to your question, an IFR GPS does cost an arm and a leg.
> Expect to sell a few more body parts too to pay for the database
> subscription that makes it legal.
>
> Helen

"nobody" > wrote in message
. com...
> We're based at KIWS (West Houston).
>
> In my ignorance I was hoping to get into an IFR GPS at the low end. It
> appears that the low end is still above my top end. I'd love to have a
> 430, 480, 530, etc.. but just can't justify the cost in a Warrior. We're
> in the middle of doing paint, interior and coming up quickly on annual. I
> can't spend that much more money on the GPS now. Some of the P&I will
> come back in the resale but the avionics won't.
>
> A portable is looking pretty tempting right now.
>
> Ed
>
>

Do you fly much real IMC in the warrior? Do you go places where a GPS
approach is the most precise approach available? What AP do you have?

Where I am going is that if it is really going to make a safety difference,
then buy the 430. Otherwise, I would say go with the portable. Personally,
I would be okay doing a VFR approach into 1000 foot minimums with a portable
backing up a basic IFR certified stack. I would rather not do a non
precision without any GPS at all. Even in the flatlands of Houston. I just
don't practice enough without one because my old plane really was GPS
dependent. My new one is less so, but I am considering a 430 or even a 530
add on.

We have an STEC 30 coupled to HDG/NAV1/NAV2/GPS. The current GPS is a
Magellan SkyNav 5000 and its a great little box but I can't get updates for
it anymore. The DB is at least 2 years old. Its really a hassle to use
without the current data.. Basically good for airports and groundspeed
only.

No, I don't fly real IMC but I'd like to. I'd feel safer with a certified
GPS and moving map. KIWS's NDB has been notam'd OTS for about 2.5 months
now and rumor has it that its not coming back. We're expecting a new GPS
approach. That leaves us with just the VOR D circle to land approach.

Eddie

I installed the 300XL with AK95 annunciator and Narco 122D/GPS in
my experimental for under $7K myself. The Narco 122D/GPS model can
share its indicator with the 300XL. The 122D in NAV mode (VOR and GS)
gives me the non-GPS IFR requirement for alternate airport. Its a very
compact package. More details at
http://www.abri.com/sq2000/choices.html

nobody wrote:
> Sorry about the x-post but didn't know where to ask the question.
>
> I guess I've been living under a rock. I wanted to update the VFR
GPS in
> the panel to an IFR model. I started getting quotes on recon GNC
300XLs.
> The units themselves were about 2,500-3,000. I was shocked to find
out that
> I had to install an annunciator, a new indicator and approx 30 hrs
labor
> bringing the total cost to around 8,000. I checked several shops and
got
> the same story. Is it typical to spend 25% of the value of the
aircraft on
> just the IFR GPS? If I installed a 530, the receiver and install
would
> probably cost close to 80% of the value of the aircraft.
>
> Eddie

Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay...

Bottom line, Eddie...

GL ... Denny

One other thing!

There is no rule that says you cannot take avionics out before selling a
plane. It can and is done by people in your situation, though the
installation costs have to be considered.



"nobody" > wrote in message
. com...
> Sorry about the x-post but didn't know where to ask the question.
>
> I guess I've been living under a rock. I wanted to update the VFR GPS in
> the panel to an IFR model. I started getting quotes on recon GNC 300XLs.
> The units themselves were about 2,500-3,000. I was shocked to find out
> that
> I had to install an annunciator, a new indicator and approx 30 hrs labor
> bringing the total cost to around 8,000. I checked several shops and got
> the same story. Is it typical to spend 25% of the value of the aircraft
> on
> just the IFR GPS? If I installed a 530, the receiver and install would
> probably cost close to 80% of the value of the aircraft.
>
> Eddie
>
>
>

Buy the unit and have it installed as VFR. When you get the extra
bucks, add pieces until you have everything that you need. The other
alternative is to check and see whether or not you'll need an
annunciator and switching panel if you use a Garmin 430. If you don't
need these items it may be more cost effective to go with the 430.


On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:23:56 GMT, "nobody" > wrote:

>We're based at KIWS (West Houston).
>
>In my ignorance I was hoping to get into an IFR GPS at the low end. It
>appears that the low end is still above my top end. I'd love to have a 430,
>480, 530, etc.. but just can't justify the cost in a Warrior. We're in the
>middle of doing paint, interior and coming up quickly on annual. I can't
>spend that much more money on the GPS now. Some of the P&I will come back
>in the resale but the avionics won't.
>
>A portable is looking pretty tempting right now.
>
>Ed
>
>
>"Helen Woods" > wrote in message
...
>> Where are you based at? Maybe we can help you find a better priced shop. I
>> saved a couple thousand on my 530 by shopping around.
>>
>> Also, check e-bay. The used boxes don't have a Garmin warrenty but there
>> are a good number of 430s floating around with people upgrading to either
>> 530s or 480s.
>>
>> And in answer to your question, an IFR GPS does cost an arm and a leg.
>> Expect to sell a few more body parts too to pay for the database
>> subscription that makes it legal.
>>
>> Helen
>

That's why everyone likes the 430. Everything is built in, you don't
need the external stuff. You can find used ones on ebay. If you have an
old KX-170B, the hole should fit a 430 (and it does the nav/com the
170B did). Labor depends on where you live. In California, expect to
pay around $7000 for installation and certification.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
: That's why everyone likes the 430. Everything is built in, you don't
: need the external stuff. You can find used ones on ebay. If you have an
: old KX-170B, the hole should fit a 430 (and it does the nav/com the
: 170B did). Labor depends on where you live. In California, expect to
: pay around $7000 for installation and certification.

Shops here in New England are getting about $12K for a NEW 430 and a NEW
Garmin CDI (106?) installed and IFR certified. $3k more for a 530.
--
Aaron C.

Yes the 430 includes VOR, GS but you still need the extenal indicator
and annunciator according to the the manual I downloaded from Garmin.

"abripl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yes the 430 includes VOR, GS but you still need the extenal indicator
> and annunciator according to the the manual I downloaded from Garmin.
>

You don't need an external annunciator if the 430 is mounted within the
pilots normal field of view.

Mike
MU-2