I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night
but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid
IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've
become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so.

The plan was to do my required long XC.

KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by
UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC
KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL.

Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly
clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees
at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My
CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded
with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers.

We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the
coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is
quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience.
I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane
trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50
minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that
I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just
a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM
but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly
a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely
of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb
heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment
that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT
rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM
decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly
gain power. We check and we're now closer to our
destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended
stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing
the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This
whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine
oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady.
We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at
around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the
climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We
head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where
the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest
of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back
to SQL.

Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a
streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks
it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began
yet.

Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky
we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to
sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least.

IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR
is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the
additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting
new minimums for me.

Mountains without IMC and not at night

IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign
and I'm very familiar with it.

LFIR - only if very local.

IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well.

I'm sure I'll come up with others.

Gerald Sylvester

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:01:49 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
> wrote:

> We comment
>that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT
>rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM
>decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly


Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius

Xav

Sounds like it was a great learning experience! My first experience with
carb ice occurred with just me in the plane. My first experience,
coincidentally, occurred within gliding distance of STS which was a waypoint
for a final destination of Booneville Airport. This first experience pretty
well followed the classic encounter and running on carb heat for a while,
eliminated the issue - though I did opt to return to my home airport (RHV)
since I considered myself a relatively 'new' pilot and didn't want to risk
continuing on to Booneville where the surrounding topography enroute to
Booneville, would be less than friendly in case of a forced landing. So, I
headed back without further incident,,, oops, almost forgot (breaker popped
out for the radio in the middle of a transmission to Flight Watch, where I
had told them about the event and told them I was heading back to RHV and
closing my previous flight plan to Boonville.

I was in a C-152 and had just had my 'ticket' for almost a year. The second
occurrence (years later,,, different destination) was more severe (carb heat
didn't help) and I did an emergency landing at a nearby airport if your
interested in the account you can find it on my 'online flying diary' <g>
at: http://www.bayareapilot.com/7700AThollister.htm


--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night
> but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid
> IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've
> become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so.
>
> The plan was to do my required long XC.
>
> KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by
> UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC
> KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL.
>
> Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly
> clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees
> at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My
> CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded
> with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers.
>
> We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the
> coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is
> quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience.
> I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane
> trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50
> minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that
> I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just
> a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM
> but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly
> a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely
> of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb
> heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment
> that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT
> rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM
> decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly
> gain power. We check and we're now closer to our
> destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended
> stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing
> the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This
> whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine
> oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady.
> We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at
> around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the
> climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We
> head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where
> the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest
> of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back
> to SQL.
>
> Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a
> streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks
> it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began
> yet.
>
> Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky
> we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to
> sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least.
>
> IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR
> is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the
> additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting
> new minimums for me.
>
> Mountains without IMC and not at night
>
> IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign
> and I'm very familiar with it.
>
> LFIR - only if very local.
>
> IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well.
>
> I'm sure I'll come up with others.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
om...
> Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky
> we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to
> sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least.
> Gerald Sylvester
>

I wouldn't go...your good luck has already been cashed in.

Mike
MU-2

Where did you come up with those figures?

Mike
MU-2


"yupyupxav" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:01:49 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
> > wrote:
>
>> We comment
>>that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT
>>rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM
>>decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly
>
>
> Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius
>
> Xav

yupyupxav wrote:
>
> Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius
>

http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm

Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure
carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than for
float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is "Why?

Mike
MU-2


"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3...
> yupyupxav wrote:
>>
>> Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius
>>
>
> http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure
> carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than for
> float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is "Why?

I dunno. I just happened to have the link. I have no knowledge beyond that. I'd
be interested in the answer, too. There are some references on the web page.

Dave

> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3...
>
>>yupyupxav wrote:
>>
>>>Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius
>>>
>>
>>http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm

It seems that there must be an error on the chart since it doesn't show
icing for pressure carburetors from 80% to 100% RH. I assume that it was an
error made when the chart was converted to color.

Mike
MU-2


"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1109868574.240872@sj-nntpcache-3...
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
>> Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure
>> carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than
>> for float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is
>> "Why?
>
> I dunno. I just happened to have the link. I have no knowledge beyond
> that. I'd be interested in the answer, too. There are some references on
> the web page.
>
> Dave
>
>> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
>> news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3...
>>
>>>yupyupxav wrote:
>>>
>>>>Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius
>>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm

It's a lot bigger range than 50 to 60. Any time humidity is above 50% or
so be particularly vigilant.


"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night
> but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid
> IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've
> become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so.
>
> The plan was to do my required long XC.
>
> KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by
> UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC
> KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL.
>
> Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly
> clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees
> at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My
> CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded
> with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers.
>
> We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the
> coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is
> quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience.
> I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane
> trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50
> minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that
> I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just
> a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM
> but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly
> a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely
> of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb
> heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment
> that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT
> rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM
> decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly
> gain power. We check and we're now closer to our
> destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended
> stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing
> the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This
> whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine
> oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady.
> We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at
> around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the
> climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We
> head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where
> the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest
> of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back
> to SQL.
>
> Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a
> streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks
> it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began
> yet.
>
> Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky
> we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to
> sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least.
>
> IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR
> is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the
> additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting
> new minimums for me.
>
> Mountains without IMC and not at night
>
> IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign
> and I'm very familiar with it.
>
> LFIR - only if very local.
>
> IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well.
>
> I'm sure I'll come up with others.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,

When I file RHV-STS (IFR) I put "Unable STINS" in the Remark section. ATC
usually comes back with (a much better) RHV-OAK-SGD-<intersection>-Direct
(or something like that, it's been a while...), or it might be "RHV, radar
vector SAU, direct" - both are much better, safer, and more direct.

Hilton

> When I file RHV-STS (IFR) I put "Unable STINS" in the Remark section. ATC
> usually comes back with (a much better) RHV-OAK-SGD-<intersection>-Direct
> (or something like that, it's been a while...), or it might be "RHV, radar
> vector SAU, direct" - both are much better, safer, and more direct.

Agreed. My original plan was SQL RV OAK, Point-Reyes-VOR and a
few victor airways up to Ukiah but got that instead. Next time,
yes, I'll say unable for undesirable routes. I definitely
learned my lesson(s).

Gerald

G. Sylvester wrote:
> > When I file RHV-STS (IFR) I put "Unable STINS" in the Remark section.
ATC
> > usually comes back with (a much better)
RHV-OAK-SGD-<intersection>-Direct
> > (or something like that, it's been a while...), or it might be "RHV,
radar
> > vector SAU, direct" - both are much better, safer, and more direct.
>
> Agreed. My original plan was SQL RV OAK, Point-Reyes-VOR and a
> few victor airways up to Ukiah but got that instead. Next time,
> yes, I'll say unable for undesirable routes. I definitely
> learned my lesson(s).

There are times when being is IMC is more comfortable than being in VMC and
seeing how far you have to swim. Been there, done that, now I leave my
logbooks at home. :)

Hilton