I'm sure everyone who has air-camped has a few ideas that might make air
camping a little more enjoyable for others. Here are a few of mine:

Ditch your sleeping bag. Instead, use a combination of sheets and fleece
blankets. Much more comfortable at little or no weight penalty.

Sew an old sheet into a sleeve to cover your camping pad. If you just throw
a sheet over a camping pad, it'll creep overnight and you'll end up sleeping
on the pad itself.

Bring your towels that are almost ready to be downcycled into use for your
dogs or for shop rags. After you've done all of your showering for the week,
use the towels to wipe down the aircraft, then put the towels in the nearest
dumpster.

Underwear. Same as towels. Take the stuff that is almost ready for the
trash heap. Wear it, then trash it. Alternately, leave it at the ANN booth.

Use a soft-side cooler as one of your travel bags. Fill it with clothes on
the way to the show, then unload it and use it as a cooler until you leave.

Take earplugs. Not everyone is on your sleep schedule, and there is always
someone loud within earshot. In particular, there is no way you're going to
get the slightly drunk group at the *next* tent to keep it quiet for more
than 5 minutes, so you might as well try the earplugs.

If you're a nighttime reader, flashlights using LED bulbs are your friend.
100+ hours of battery life, so you don't need to bring a sleeve of AA
batteries in order to pour through all the literature you picked up during
the day.

Not a camping note, but applies to all fly-ins: Don't power your airplane
out of its parking space in back to back rows. Pull it out, turn it
perpindicular, then fire it up... There are few things more aggravating
than having the control surfaces on your airplane bashed around by some
thoughtless clown.

Don't bother with a regular single-section air mattress. All the air
will go out from under you and end up in the corners. Find an air
mattress that has independent sealed air bladders.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Let me add a few more...

ditch the air mattress or foam pad and get one of those twin/queen/king
(depending on the size of your tent) air mattresses that inflate to
5-9 inch high. They take regular-sized sheets and blankets. Quite
comfy, and are higher off the ground.

Ear plugs are great, but so is a CD or MP3 player with earplugs or
lightweight headset.

In the back of the putt-putt I have a couple of those plastic crates
sold in hardware stores and office supply stores.Really sturdy. When
I'm flying with weight in the front 2 seats, I put the 8 gal. water
tank in one of them. The other one has the tie-down kit, tools, etc.
Turned over, they make great "night stand" or small tables to keep
things off the ground. And I think I'm going to bring the 3 gal.
water tank along. Much easier to refill the bottles for the day as
well as having "clean up" water handy.

("Kyle Boatright" wrote)
> Ditch your sleeping bag. Instead, use a combination of sheets and fleece
> blankets. Much more comfortable at little or no weight penalty.
>
> Sew an old sheet into a sleeve to cover your camping pad. If you just
> throw a sheet over a camping pad, it'll creep overnight and you'll end up
> sleeping on the pad itself.


Is the weight penalty worth the comfort of an air mattress for a week?

I bought an Eddie Bauer (self-inflating) queen size air mattress on the way
to OSH last year ....in the minivan. Pump uses 4 D-cell batteries. Smaller
Single/Twin size mattress was also available.

I'm not the smallest guy around, yet the thing kept me up off the ground all
night - unless I rolled to the side too quickly, then I would sometimes
bottom out.

On our last night, I wasn't even aware we had a flooded tent until I rolled
off the air mattress the next morning - only to discover an inch of water in
the bottom of said tent. I have not ruled out foul play!! :-)

I packed 1 old crummy comforter and 1 normal "top" sheet. If it's hot -
sheet on top, cold - comforter on top.

Air mattress ($45) has been used many, many times by us since last year. No
leaks, same batteries.


Montblack

For your airplane:

three pieces of 1" thick plywood (one for each wheel)

12" or 18" square

Shut down your engine a foot or two short of the line, place the squares
ahead of the wheels and pull the airplane up onto the squares.

These will keep your wheels from sinking into the soil while you are
there, making your departure much easier, rolling off the plywood
instead of pulling your airplane out of the holes.

Possibly the best Oshkosh camping trick of all ...


UW-O dorms.


Jim

1" ply? Jeez, are you flying a DC-3 in?

Jim



"john smith" > wrote in message
.. .
> For your airplane:
>
> three pieces of 1" thick plywood (one for each wheel)

Okay, I admit I don't know how much weight a one-square-foot piece of
3/8, 1/2, or 3/4 inch plywood will bear before breaking. I err on the
conservative side. :-))
What would be the appropriate size for 210 or Cherokee Six six aircraft?

RST Engineering wrote:
> 1" ply? Jeez, are you flying a DC-3 in?
> Jim

> "john smith" > wrote in message
>>For your airplane:
>>three pieces of 1" thick plywood (one for each wheel)

I'm going to make some offhand assumptions:

1. This is Wisconsin dirt covered with either green or brown grass quite
evenly.

2. The plywood will be 90% in contact with a supporting surface of
grass/ground

3. The airplane will weigh something on the order of 3000 pounds spread
evenly over all three wheels.

If this is true, then the plywood will have a supporting role 10% of 1000
pounds, or 100 pounds over a square foot, or a little less than 1 psi. My
best guess is that 3/8 would do, but beltandsuspenders would be half-inch.
That's what I'm bringing along.

Jim



"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, I admit I don't know how much weight a one-square-foot piece of 3/8,
> 1/2, or 3/4 inch plywood will bear before breaking. I err on the
> conservative side. :-))
> What would be the appropriate size for 210 or Cherokee Six six aircraft?
>
> RST Engineering wrote:
>> 1" ply? Jeez, are you flying a DC-3 in?
>> Jim
>
>> "john smith" > wrote in message
>>>For your airplane:
>>>three pieces of 1" thick plywood (one for each wheel)

RST Engineering wrote:
> I'm going to make some offhand assumptions:
>
> 1. This is Wisconsin dirt covered with either green or brown grass quite
> evenly.
>
> 2. The plywood will be 90% in contact with a supporting surface of
> grass/ground
>
> 3. The airplane will weigh something on the order of 3000 pounds spread
> evenly over all three wheels.
>
> If this is true, then the plywood will have a supporting role 10% of 1000
> pounds, or 100 pounds over a square foot, or a little less than 1 psi. My
> best guess is that 3/8 would do, but beltandsuspenders would be half-inch.
> That's what I'm bringing along.

Is that based on lessons learned in the North Fond du Lac mud two year's
ago? :-))

RST Engineering wrote:

<snipped beltandsuspenders Engineering analysis>

Dang Jim, another thing to add to the "bring to OSH" list. Seeing as
I'm flying something w/o wing struts now, push/pulling out of the N40
will certainly be easier if the Arrow has been sitting on 1/2 inch thick
pieces of plywood for the week.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

> RST Engineering wrote:
> <snipped beltandsuspenders Engineering analysis>

Jack Allison wrote:
> Dang Jim, another thing to add to the "bring to OSH" list. Seeing as
> I'm flying something w/o wing struts now, push/pulling out of the N40
> will certainly be easier if the Arrow has been sitting on 1/2 inch thick
> pieces of plywood for the week.

You will not regret bringing them, Jack. Especially if it rains as it
did two years ago.

Yup. And again seven years ago, and thirteen years ago, and ...

Jim

>
> Is that based on lessons learned in the North Fond du Lac mud two year's
> ago? :-))

>
> Is the weight penalty worth the comfort of an air mattress for a week?
>
> Montblack

Do the words HELL YES mean anything to you?

Dave

Dave S > wrote:
>>
>> Is the weight penalty worth the comfort of an air mattress for a week?
>>
>> Montblack
>
>Do the words HELL YES mean anything to you?
>
>Dave

I'm still waiting to reach my limit on W&B with only 2 people and
gear in the cherokee 180. And I don't pack light...

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> I'm still waiting to reach my limit on W&B with only 2 people and
> gear in the cherokee 180. And I don't pack light...

The real question isn't so much the weight limit (though in some cases that
might be relevant). It's that every pound added to the airplane costs you
in cruise speed, and thus in everything tied to cruise speed (fuel costs,
maintenance expenses, etc.).

IMHO, you'd have to be pretty stingy for that cost to not be justified if
you get a week's comfort out of it (especially when you consider that a
well-rested pilot is a safer pilot). But it is true that there's a
measurable cost. (I haven't done the particular calculation, but it
probably amounts to a fraction of a percent increase in expense, even after
you add in every possible related cost you can possibly think of).

Pete

Montblack wrote:
>
> Is the weight penalty worth the comfort of an air mattress for a week?

With my back, if it'll fit in the plane, I'm taking it.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

>> Is the weight penalty worth the comfort of an air mattress for a week?
>
> Do the words HELL YES mean anything to you?

Boy, I'll second that motion. We brought our first queen-sized,
self-inflating air mattress to OSH three (?) years ago, and whoa -- what a
difference!

Rain? Who cares? I'm 8 inches in the air, well above any moisture that may
leak into the corners of the tent.

Rocks? Who cares? I'm floating on a cloud!

It's been the best addition to our OSH camping gear, ever.

The only problem is that our kids don't have them (they sleep in their own
"wings", on either side of us in our gigantus-humongo tent), and all we hear
is a high-pitched whining sound whenever it's time for bed.

Of course, ear plugs solve that pretty well!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Peter Duniho > wrote:
>"Blanche" > wrote in message
>> I'm still waiting to reach my limit on W&B with only 2 people and
>> gear in the cherokee 180. And I don't pack light...
>
>The real question isn't so much the weight limit (though in some cases that
>might be relevant). It's that every pound added to the airplane costs you
>in cruise speed, and thus in everything tied to cruise speed (fuel costs,
>maintenance expenses, etc.).
>
>IMHO, you'd have to be pretty stingy for that cost to not be justified if
>you get a week's comfort out of it (especially when you consider that a
>well-rested pilot is a safer pilot). But it is true that there's a
>measurable cost. (I haven't done the particular calculation, but it
>probably amounts to a fraction of a percent increase in expense, even after
>you add in every possible related cost you can possibly think of).

Pete, et al....

If I were doing calculations to worry about weight v. expense, I
wouldn't own an airplane. Reality check, please!

My first choice when traveling is always a Marriott. For the past
few years I've been staying at the dorms in Appleton. This year,
I'm trying the camping concept. But my idea of camping, now that
I'm not longer young and stupid (afterall, I'm no longer young. But
I am still stupid...) is a comfy tent, cd/mp3 player, comfy twin or
larger air mattress (taking the idea from the OP, I've decided against
the sleeping bag and just packed the sheets), a couple pillows -- much
easier to sit up and read, etc. If I brought the RV (the camper, not
the airplane!) which I sold a number of years ago I'd have the
airconditioner, full bath, comfy bed, kitchen, satellite dish...etc.

I stopped "roughing it" many years ago when I quit being a white-water
rafting guide here in Colorado.

Come to think of it, the "emergency equipment" for the aircraft weighs
more than everything else. That includes 1 of every type of lamp,
couple quarts of oil (no, I'm not bringing a spare filter), tools,
safety wire, extra batteries, covers, tie-down kit, and so on.

I told you I didn't travel light!

On the other hand, I've spent a month traveling in Europe with
nothing more than a carry-on bag and the AMEX card. Of course I always
knew where the closest laundromat was located. And yes, because it
was business, it was always the Marriotts.

Knowing full well I'm about to perpetuate the stereotype, you're talking to a
Jewish American Princess. And yes, I consider the cell phone, AMEX
card and a nail file mandatory flight equipment in my flight bag.

(*chortle*)

Personally, I'm really bringing a mostly-empty aircraft. I fully
expect to do serious shopping both in Bldgs A-D as well as the
outlet stores on the other side of the interstate...we'll see
how much I can spend at the LandsEnd store...

As for cruise speed -- oh please! I'm in a cherokee 180 that on
a good day with a tail wind, I might see 110-115 kts. Of course where
I live, that 180 hp engine is only pushing out 108 hp. I'm really
looking forward to seeing how it performs below 5000 ft MSL.

I'm hoping to be part of a flight of 2. The other aircraft is a
2002 Grumman Tiger. I get an hour's head start.

Blanche wrote:
> Peter Duniho > wrote:
>
>>"Blanche" > wrote in message
>>
>>>I'm still waiting to reach my limit on W&B with only 2 people and
>>>gear in the cherokee 180. And I don't pack light...

(SNIP)

I went into OSH in an ARROW with two other people and some gear. We were
at Gross, no questions asked.

>
> Come to think of it, the "emergency equipment" for the aircraft weighs
> more than everything else. That includes 1 of every type of lamp,
> couple quarts of oil (no, I'm not bringing a spare filter), tools,
> safety wire, extra batteries, covers, tie-down kit, and so on.
>
> I told you I didn't travel light!
(SNIP)

Neither did we. But in our case we shipped over 100 pounds of camping
gear in boxes to the on-site post office.

We brought tarps, an ice chest, clothes, sleeping bags, pillows and our
flying gear in the plane.

We shipped tents, a cookstove, a lantern, folding camp chairs and other
bulky stuff by postal ground, a few days early.

The tarps were in case we got there and our gear didnt, or we had to
land somewhere else and camp unexpectedly.

Dave

You can ship TO the post office on the field?????? I had my Archer
packed up like Uncle Jed's truck last year and there were still things I
wished I had. (My Di Blasi scooter would have been nice to have.) I
had weighed everything and was 100lbs under gross and within the CG
limits but it sure looked like "Forest Gump's Cargo, Inc.".

If any of you see a run down, gray haired guy, with two young boys, one
with hearing aids, that will probably be me! Last year I swore I would
never do this again after a they parked a freakin' jet in front of me
and.... oh never mind, you can imagine the rest, but now I am itching to
go again.

Plywood load spreaders to park on???? Is that what the smart people are
using in the north 40? I wouldn't have thought of that but I'd rather
pack a little more crap than get stuck in a field.

I saw a couple of references to internet access on the field. Just as a
point of reference, my Treo gave me access to e-mail and web browsing of
'small screen' (is that called WAP?) sites. If anyone is on the fence
about purchasing one, it's a nice thing to have when you're otherwise
disconnected. I bought a cheap charger for mine on Ebay that uses AA
batteries. And I assume everyone has a stockpile of them!

Tom


Dave S wrote:
>
>
> Blanche wrote:
>
>> Peter Duniho > wrote:
>>
>>> "Blanche" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting to reach my limit on W&B with only 2 people and
>>>> gear in the cherokee 180. And I don't pack light...
>>>
>
> (SNIP)
>
> I went into OSH in an ARROW with two other people and some gear. We were
> at Gross, no questions asked.
>
>>
>> Come to think of it, the "emergency equipment" for the aircraft weighs
>> more than everything else. That includes 1 of every type of lamp,
>> couple quarts of oil (no, I'm not bringing a spare filter), tools,
>> safety wire, extra batteries, covers, tie-down kit, and so on.
>> I told you I didn't travel light!
>
> (SNIP)
>
> Neither did we. But in our case we shipped over 100 pounds of camping
> gear in boxes to the on-site post office.
>
> We brought tarps, an ice chest, clothes, sleeping bags, pillows and our
> flying gear in the plane.
>
> We shipped tents, a cookstove, a lantern, folding camp chairs and other
> bulky stuff by postal ground, a few days early.
>
> The tarps were in case we got there and our gear didnt, or we had to
> land somewhere else and camp unexpectedly.
>
> Dave
>

>(taking the idea from the OP, I've decided against
> the sleeping bag and just packed the sheets)

For many years we have packed the sheets AND the sleeping bags. Usually we
just sleep with the sheets, but very occasionally -- like four (?) years
ago -- the temperatures dip into the low 50s at night in OSH during the
convention.

Sheets alone didn't cut it, that year. And the other years we just sleep on
top of the bags...

> Knowing full well I'm about to perpetuate the stereotype, you're talking
> to a
> Jewish American Princess. And yes, I consider the cell phone, AMEX
> card and a nail file mandatory flight equipment in my flight bag.

AMEX? Nowadays you'd starve to death trying to survive without a VISA
card!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

All this stuff about packing, W&B, etc., makes me glad I'm a "local"
(1.5 hrs drive to OSH) and bring my pop up camper.

John

> All this stuff about packing, W&B, etc., makes me glad I'm a "local" (1.5
> hrs drive to OSH) and bring my pop up camper.

We did that from 83 - 97ish.

Although it's easier, and fun, too, it ain't the same thing.

There is nothing -- NOTHING -- in this world like waking up under the wing
of your plane at Oshkosh.

Stand up, stretch the kinks out, step up on the wing, and gaze in wonder at
10,000 airplanes, parked wing-tip-to-wing-tip, as far as the eye can see.

I shiver just thinking about it.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck > wrote:
[snip]
>> Knowing full well I'm about to perpetuate the stereotype, you're talking
>> to a
>> Jewish American Princess. And yes, I consider the cell phone, AMEX
>> card and a nail file mandatory flight equipment in my flight bag.
>
>AMEX? Nowadays you'd starve to death trying to survive without a VISA
>card!
>
>;-)

But when traveling, it was a company AMEX card...I never even saw
the bill. But yes, there's a VISA in my wallet too. But the joke
is usually funnier with "AMEX card".

*sigh*

Sat. night we'll go thru all the J.A.P. jokes if you'd like. Few of
them are appropriate for a public forum. Well, there's the Jewish
Grandmother jokes...of course I had the only Jewish Grandmother who
couldn't make chicken soup and always ruined the brisket. No joke!

Jay Honeck > wrote:
>There is nothing -- NOTHING -- in this world like waking up under the wing
>of your plane at Oshkosh.
>
>Stand up, stretch the kinks out, step up on the wing, and gaze in wonder at
>10,000 airplanes, parked wing-tip-to-wing-tip, as far as the eye can see.

Stand up under the wing of Atlas? This I want to see!

(*chortle*)

> I saw a couple of references to internet access on the field. Just as a
> point of reference, my Treo gave me access to e-mail and web browsing of
> 'small screen' (is that called WAP?) sites. If anyone is on the fence
> about purchasing one, it's a nice thing to have when you're otherwise
> disconnected.

I'm getting a little off-topic here, but:
What model of Treo did you buy? I was looking at one recently and they
looked pretty neat...
Interested in a PIREP!

Ryan Wubben
Madison, WI

("Blanche" wrote)
> Sat. night we'll go thru all the J.A.P. jokes if you'd like. Few of
> them are appropriate for a public forum.


Swing by the N40 on Wed evening for an Irish seven course meal - baked
potato and a six pack.

No really, Jim B is digging up fresh potatoes for us from his fields.

There'll be other fud too :-)


Montblack
Mel Brooks is Jewish? - Homer Simpson

Someday, when I own a airplane...

Jay Honeck wrote:
> For many years we have packed the sheets AND the sleeping bags. Usually we
> just sleep with the sheets, but very occasionally -- like four (?) years
> ago -- the temperatures dip into the low 50s at night in OSH during the
> convention.

Two years ago, the first weekend was upper 30's at night.
Target sold out of down comforters.

Jay Honeck wrote:
> There is nothing -- NOTHING -- in this world like waking up under the wing
> of your plane at Oshkosh.
> Stand up, stretch the kinks out, step up on the wing, and gaze in wonder at
> 10,000 airplanes, parked wing-tip-to-wing-tip, as far as the eye can see.

Let me see if I recall this correctly...
Jay, you have posted that you are about six-feet tall.
You have also posted that you fly a low-wing Piper Pathfinder.
Explain to me how you sleep under the wing of your airplane, stand up
and stretch out the kinks under the wing, then step up on the wing?

> Two years ago, the first weekend was upper 30's at night.
> Target sold out of down comforters.

I thought I remembered something like that! I'll keep bringing sleeping
bag *and* sheets, thank you!
--
Jim in NC

Not a problem in the dorms...

Wake up, knock the ice off the windows, say something like "Hey, honey, it
must have been cold last night" and shuffle down the hall to a warm shower.

Jim




"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>> For many years we have packed the sheets AND the sleeping bags. Usually
>> we just sleep with the sheets, but very occasionally -- like four (?)
>> years ago -- the temperatures dip into the low 50s at night in OSH during
>> the convention.
>
> Two years ago, the first weekend was upper 30's at night.
> Target sold out of down comforters.

> Let me see if I recall this correctly...
> Jay, you have posted that you are about six-feet tall.
> You have also posted that you fly a low-wing Piper Pathfinder.
> Explain to me how you sleep under the wing of your airplane, stand up and
> stretch out the kinks under the wing, then step up on the wing?

Well, as you know, my hair is pretty thin...

;-)

Okay, so we sleep NEXT TO the wing of our plane...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Okay, so we sleep NEXT TO the wing of our plane...

Yes, sleeping *under* the wing, is for after the Wednesday get-together, and
he has envied too heavily to find the tent. <g>
--
Jim in NC

> Yes, sleeping *under* the wing, is for after the Wednesday get-together,
> and
> he has envied too heavily to find the tent. <g>

I've always been able to find the tent.

It's the porta-potty that I occasionally, er, misplace...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> Jay, you have posted that you are about six-feet tall.
> You have also posted that you fly a low-wing Piper Pathfinder.
> Explain to me how you sleep under the wing of your airplane, stand up and stretch out the kinks under the wing, then step up on the wing?

I think I've figured it out. Jay and Dudley are the same! <g>

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Blanche wrote:
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>>There is nothing -- NOTHING -- in this world like waking up under the wing
>>of your plane at Oshkosh.
>>
>>Stand up, stretch the kinks out, step up on the wing, and gaze in wonder at
>>10,000 airplanes, parked wing-tip-to-wing-tip, as far as the eye can see.
>
> Stand up under the wing of Atlas? This I want to see!

His A&P installed the knobby tire gear from that turbined Helio...

wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> I'm getting a little off-topic here, but:
> What model of Treo did you buy? I was looking at one recently and they
> looked pretty neat...
> Interested in a PIREP!
>
> Ryan Wubben
> Madison, WI

Well, I was an early adopter, I have a Treo 300. So you'd probably be
better of hearing from a Treo 650 user since that's what you'd be buying
now. The trick is to find sites that are optimized for the small
screen. They are out there if you look hard enough.

But some examples that I use when out of town in the plane:

AccuWeather Wireless Radar (decent image on the small screen)
Metars & TAFs
Raw images from weather.com and others (only works when the URL of the
image doesn't change)
Mobile Yahoo (maybe find a movie in a strange town)
Mobile Google
Mobile Mapquest
Mobile Phone Directories

The e-mail & PDA functions are also handy when your home is a tent in
the north 40 (shudders, preferring the Hilton any time.....)

Tom