Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club is
putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra data
cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these are
standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
experience to share?

Brad

Brad Salai wrote:
> Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club is
> putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra data
> cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these are
> standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
> experience to share?

Are all your data sources certified for navigation?

Brad Salai wrote:

> Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club is
> putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra data
> cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these are
> standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
> experience to share?
>
> Brad

The license for the navdata is for one unit. If you figure out how to
distribute the data for use in more than one unit at the same time, you will
not only have a contractual issue, I suspect the FAA would be inclined to
withdraw the IFR certification of the installation (s).

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:46:14 -0400, Stubby
> wrote:

>
>
>Brad Salai wrote:
>> Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club is
>> putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra data
>> cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these are
>> standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
>> experience to share?
>
>Are all your data sources certified for navigation?

I don't read their message as attempting to outsource the Jepp data,
just the SD card it's stored on.

FWIW, after one of my SD cards fried on my G1000 I picked up one at
CompUSA, used Jepp Skybound to format it, and haven't had a problem
installing updates.

Your mileage may vary depending on the source. The KLN94 cards are
specially formatted at King and can't be sourced elsewhere that I know
of.

Peter wrote:
> Peter Clark > wrote
....
> But why would it invalidate the data for IFR? Can anyone supply a
> reference stating that a breach of GPS navdata copyright invalidates
> the IFR certification of the GPS installation?

Something is either certified or it's not. The idea of it's database
being invalidated by something else doesn't apply.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:23:25 +0100, Peter >
wrote:

>
>Peter Clark > wrote
>
>>The KLN94 cards are
>>specially formatted at King and can't be sourced elsewhere that I know
>>of.
>
>The KLN94 data card is an off the shelf compactflash card, with a
>hacked filing system (not the normal FAT16/FAT32) so that it cannot be
>accessed in a normal digital camera sort of CF writer.
>
>I don't know the latest on this but Honeywell used to sell a Sandisk
>CF writer (which I have one here, never used it yet) for which they
>supplied a driver which was hacked to write it. I believe they now
>sell a somewhat more recent product - the Sandisk unit was
>discontinued even at the time I bought mine.

The sandisk reader/writer that Honeywell sells (SDDR-31, they still
have some) for Internet downloads for the KLN94 will not format a
blank card, only combine with their software to write their datafile
to a preformatted card. It also has some special firmware (available
on their website for download) that you need to use for the
card/reader to be recognized. Unless someone has hacked the format of
the file system to allow end-users to create the special cards, you
can still only get a card that will work from King.

>Unlike the internet downloads (which are fixed-up to the particular
>KLN94 serial number) the CF cards aren't, and if anyone found a way to
>duplicate them they could share the data among others.

The database key (which changes occasionally) is linked to the card,
not the unit. If you have multiple cards for one unit, you need to be
careful which DB key you use - write the wrong one to the card and
it's useless. Ask me how I know.... But you can take a valid card
and shove it in any KLN94 and it'll work just fine. Anyone who could
successfully duplicate the entire card, including the DB key storage
system, would have a fully functioning card for any unit.

>I'd guess Garmin are the same

At least for the G1000 package, the Jepp Skybound software allows you
to format the data cards directly. Lose/damage/want a spare card,
whatever, just grab one with the right or more capacity and use it.
You don't even leave the navdata card in the airplane, it downloads it
to NVRAM and you take it with you. so it's not as inconvenient as the
King system if you don't have two cards.

That's not what we are trying to do. We don't have a computer with a fast
internet connection at the airport, so we have to write the new data every
month at a remote location (our maintenance officers house). We are going to
buy duplicate cards so that we can prepare three of them, and go to the
airport once and install them in the three airplanes. We will have three
subscriptions.

I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each that Garmin
charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is way higher than they
can be gotten for elsewhere. We just don't know what they are yet because we
haven't gotten our first 530 installed.

Brad
> wrote in message ...
>
>
> Brad Salai wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club
is
> > putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra
data
> > cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these
are
> > standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
> > experience to share?
> >
> > Brad
>
> The license for the navdata is for one unit. If you figure out how to
> distribute the data for use in more than one unit at the same time, you
will
> not only have a contractual issue, I suspect the FAA would be inclined to
> withdraw the IFR certification of the installation (s).
>
>

It's called a monopoly for a reason. Garmin is charging & getting all they
can for them. Garmin does not warranty them, "if you fry 'em you buy 'em."
If you wear it out, buy another one. "From us, of course."

If someone could find a source, I w/b all too willing to get a another
spare.

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"Brad Salai" > wrote in message
...

> I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each that Garmin
> charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is way higher than
> they
> can be gotten for elsewhere. We just don't know what they are yet because
> we
> haven't gotten our first 530 installed.
>
> Brad

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:20:46 -0400, Stubby
> wrote:

>
>
>Peter wrote:
>> Peter Clark > wrote
>...
>> But why would it invalidate the data for IFR? Can anyone supply a
>> reference stating that a breach of GPS navdata copyright invalidates
>> the IFR certification of the GPS installation?
>
>Something is either certified or it's not. The idea of it's database
>being invalidated by something else doesn't apply.

'Twas not me who asked the question....

"Brad Salai" > writes:

> [...] I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each
> that Garmin charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is
> way higher than they can be gotten for elsewhere. [...]

According to the Jeppesen Skybound USB card writer thingie,
modern 430/530 data cards have a mere 4- or 8-MB capacity.

- FChE

Does is say for certain what format the cards are? If they are SD cards,
they are smaller than anything available nowadays, but since they came out 7
or 8 years ago, that might well be true. A 16 meg SD card only costs $20 or
so, that would be a big savings for us.

Brad

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brad Salai" > writes:
>
> > [...] I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each
> > that Garmin charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is
> > way higher than they can be gotten for elsewhere. [...]
>
> According to the Jeppesen Skybound USB card writer thingie,
> modern 430/530 data cards have a mere 4- or 8-MB capacity.
>
> - FChE

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
> "Brad Salai" > writes:
>=20
>> [...] I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each
>> that Garmin charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is
>> way higher than they can be gotten for elsewhere. [...]
>=20
> According to the Jeppesen Skybound USB card writer thingie,
> modern 430/530 data cards have a mere 4- or 8-MB capacity.
>=20
> - FChE

Interesting.
My CNX80(GNS480) cards are 32MB, with only about 2.5MB unused.
But some big changes are pending for the 430 and 530 units.

FWIW, my basic MX20 used 32MB cards also, but with ChartView,
that expanded to 128MB cards.
Charts for the continental US fit in 128, with only a few MB to spare.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 18:55:48 +0100, Peter >
wrote:

>>The database key (which changes occasionally) is linked to the card,
>>not the unit. If you have multiple cards for one unit, you need to be
>>careful which DB key you use - write the wrong one to the card and
>>it's useless. Ask me how I know.... But you can take a valid card
>>and shove it in any KLN94 and it'll work just fine. Anyone who could
>>successfully duplicate the entire card, including the DB key storage
>>system, would have a fully functioning card for any unit.
>
>I have not seen this stuff about DB keys written down anywhere.
>Doesn't this mean that one could easily render a database card
>unusable while writing it with the Sandisk writer? How can I avoid
>this?

They do mention being very careful about transcribing the key on the
website pages you navigate through when generating your database.
Having an incorrect key doesn't make the *card* useless, but it won't
properly download and validate when inserted into the GPS. You will
then have to call customer service and ask them to add a download back
to the account (at their discretion about whether the error was
intentional and thus not eligible for reversal, no cookie for you if
they think you're trying to wangle a free download), or use one of
your remaining download credits and generate a new download file with
the appropriate key instead of using it against a later download.

John,

I just bought a plane with a GNS480 in it. I would like an extra card.
Where do you purchase them?

Thanks,

BJ

John R. Copeland wrote:

>"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message ...
>
>
>>"Brad Salai" > writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>[...] I was just trying to find cards for less than the $130 each
>>>that Garmin charges for them. If they are 256 meg SD cards, that is
>>>way higher than they can be gotten for elsewhere. [...]
>>>
>>>
>>According to the Jeppesen Skybound USB card writer thingie,
>>modern 430/530 data cards have a mere 4- or 8-MB capacity.
>>
>>- FChE
>>
>>
>
>Interesting.
>My CNX80(GNS480) cards are 32MB, with only about 2.5MB unused.
>But some big changes are pending for the 430 and 530 units.
>
>FWIW, my basic MX20 used 32MB cards also, but with ChartView,
>that expanded to 128MB cards.
>Charts for the continental US fit in 128, with only a few MB to spare.
>
>
>

BJ:
If you are in the U.S., call Garmin AT sales at (800) 525-6726 ext. =
3995.
(Their telephone menu gives you an early opportunity to use that =
extension.)
They are in Salem, Oregon, and therefore keep West Coast business hours.

Have you signed up with Jeppesen for a NavData subscription yet?
By agreement with Jeppesen, Garmin AT cannot supply the data for your =
card.
HTH.

"B. Jensen" > wrote in message =
...
> John,

> I just bought a plane with a GNS480 in it. I would like an extra =
card. Where do you purchase them?

> Thanks,

> BJ=20

John R. Copeland wrote:

>Have you signed up with Jeppesen for a NavData subscription yet?
>By agreement with Jeppesen, Garmin AT cannot supply the data for your card.
>HTH.
>
John,

That was going to be my next question. I have not signed up with
Jeppesen yet. Can I use the same phone number to do that, or is there a
separate number?

Thanks,

BJ

"B. Jensen" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
>=20
> John R. Copeland wrote:
>=20
>>Have you signed up with Jeppesen for a NavData subscription yet?
>>By agreement with Jeppesen, Garmin AT cannot supply the data for your =
card.
>>HTH.
>>
> John,
>=20
> That was going to be my next question. I have not signed up with=20
> Jeppesen yet. Can I use the same phone number to do that, or is there =
a=20
> separate number?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> BJ
>

Definitely a different number. But Garmin AT can explain the process =
for you.
NavData is through Jeppesen's Skybound subscription service, (800) =
621-5377.
When I bought my CNX80 from Garmin AT, they paid for my first two =
months.
Garmin probably won't offer to do that for your situation.

Navigating the Jeppesen website can be frustrating sometimes,
but you may wish to look through their "Charting and Navigation" area =
for
"GPS NavData Services", then "Skybound" for Garmin AT (formerly UPS AT).
The out-of-date web page says little or nothing about the GNS480.
You'll probably want "The Americas" database.

If you have a broadband internet connection, you can download each
28-day update of the NavData, whether or not you get the CD-ROM.
I think you can now elect to not receive the 28-day CD-ROM,
and save a little money on the subscription price.
I get the CD-ROMs, but I've never yet used any of them.

If you already have a USB CompactFlash adapter on your computer,
you won't need to buy a different one to program the GNS480 data cards.
The card will show up in Windows as an ordinary removable drive.
Remember to logically "Eject" it before physically removing the card.
Probably no harm will occur if you forget, but it's neater that way.

Thanks John...that is very helpful!

Best,

BJ

I have a KLN 89/B and I put the wrong DBkey in the first time I used it.
I called Honeywell and they gave me a free extesnion to my subscription
and I just downloaded a new request using the correct DBkey. I didn't
wind up having a useless card. Now if I could only take the card and
program it and not have to take a laptop to the plane.


Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Peter Clark wrote:
>snip
>
>
> The database key (which changes occasionally) is linked to the card,
> not the unit. If you have multiple cards for one unit, you need to be
> careful which DB key you use - write the wrong one to the card and
> it's useless. Ask me how I know.... But you can take a valid card
> and shove it in any KLN94 and it'll work just fine. Anyone who could
> successfully duplicate the entire card, including the DB key storage
> system, would have a fully functioning card for any unit.
>
>
snip

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:58:11 -0500, Ross Richardson
> wrote:

>I have a KLN 89/B and I put the wrong DBkey in the first time I used it.
>I called Honeywell and they gave me a free extesnion to my subscription
>and I just downloaded a new request using the correct DBkey. I didn't
>wind up having a useless card. Now if I could only take the card and
>program it and not have to take a laptop to the plane.

I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't reprogram the card with a
working database having a proper key.

And you can take the card and program it - get the reader from
Honeywell and flash it at home. Course, going to airport, get card,
go home, flash, go back to airport, install, watch it download for 15
minutes gets old. Spare cards are pricey. It would be much easier if
they just made a way for people to initialize their own cards from
scratch, but there's no profit in that for them.

Peter > wrote:

> A while ago I phoned Honeywell, told them that my warranty bill on
> their failed avionics (KI229, KFC225, KR87, etc) topped US$100,000
> within the first year from new, and asked if they would kindly send me
> a spare card, which they did...

Ha! I did something similar. Complained about warranty work with the B/K
equipment and also mentioned I was in the market for data-linked weather
and a Mode-S transponder. They sent me a spare card free of charge. :)

--
Peter


















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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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"John R. Copeland" > wrote:

> If you have a broadband internet connection, you can download each
> 28-day update of the NavData, whether or not you get the CD-ROM.
> I think you can now elect to not receive the 28-day CD-ROM,
> and save a little money on the subscription price.
> I get the CD-ROMs, but I've never yet used any of them.

Yes, I just get the download only. It works fine, and all those CDs would just take up space after awhile,
anyway.

> If you already have a USB CompactFlash adapter on your computer,
> you won't need to buy a different one to program the GNS480 data cards.
> The card will show up in Windows as an ordinary removable drive.
> Remember to logically "Eject" it before physically removing the card.
> Probably no harm will occur if you forget, but it's neater that way.

When I got my system last winter, the CF USB adapter came with the box. I don't need to use it, though,
since my PC has a CF adapter on the front of it, and there's nothing unique about the adapter they
provide. It just looks like a normal removable drive to the PC. With my cable connection, the download
takes just a few minutes (about 13 MB).

Mike

Well, I finally decided to call Garmin and see if they would tell me
anything. They would only say that the carts are proprietary and can't be
bought anywhere except from Jeppeson. I tried to engage the guy in a
conversation about the 530 upgrade, and he was not talking. Pretty
frustrating from a customer point of view.

Brad


"Brad Salai" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know the format of the data cards for the GNS 530? Our club is
> putting them in our small fleet, and we are considering buying extra data
> cards to make the updates easier. The Garmin price seems high. If these
are
> standard cards, we may be able to do better elsewhere. Anyone have any
> experience to share?
>
> Brad
>
>