DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !

We are slowly but surely proving to the world our level of intelligence
and learning ability. From locked 3 foot fences to TFRs that serve no
purpose except derail GA.

How long does it take an airliner to go from one side of NY to the other?
How long to scramble?
How long to learn?

What is the weight and balance of a standard Cessna vs. the carrying
capacity of a volvo?

How many times have we heard this before and done nothing about it?

Why do we continue to defend the illogical just because...

If you have media contacts and have not used them to help GA ... shame on
you. shame shame.


--
--
"And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a
pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love
with flight." -- E.B. Jeppesen

___|___
-(*)-
o/ \o

/ \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \
/ ' \

wrote:
> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !

Nope. Chicago will be next.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
>> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>
>
> Nope. Chicago will be next.
>
> George Patterson
> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.


Is there one around Riyad?

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:57:53 -0400, wrote:

>DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
>flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop?

I see mention on AOPA's page about a *TFR* for the UN and Presidential
visit from Sep 14-28. Do you have a link for a proposed permanent
ADIZ like DC?

That's most likely what he's referring to (the two week TFR). I admit I
don't like it anymore than the original poster, but we as pilots will
never have leverage to do anything about it. The Secret Service is the
agency responsible for these TFRs since they're the ones charged with
protecting the President, and given the amount of autonomy they have,
it is very hard to hold them accountable for just about anything. That
is what I perceive as a fundamental flaw in our government which the
general population seems perfectly content to live with (because it
doesn't affect them directly, nor really indirectly as well).

--
Guy

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:pO3Re.6033$Ni1.5810@trndny03...
> wrote:
>> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
>> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>
> Nope. Chicago will be next.

Looks like a knock out win by the terrorists and they don't have to do
anything any more. Scared of shadows huh!

Peter Clark wrote:
>
> I see mention on AOPA's page about a *TFR* for the UN and Presidential
> visit from Sep 14-28. Do you have a link for a proposed permanent
> ADIZ like DC?

Third sentence of that article - "An air defense identification zone (ADIZ) with
an inner flight restricted zone (FRZ) similar to the one over Washington, D.C.,
will be in effect September 14 to 16."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:13:17 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>Peter Clark wrote:
>>
>> I see mention on AOPA's page about a *TFR* for the UN and Presidential
>> visit from Sep 14-28. Do you have a link for a proposed permanent
>> ADIZ like DC?
>
>Third sentence of that article - "An air defense identification zone (ADIZ) with
>an inner flight restricted zone (FRZ) similar to the one over Washington, D.C.,
>will be in effect September 14 to 16."

Effective dates, the word "similar" and the lack of "permanent" to me
doesn't make it really "like" DC.

It's no different than the TFRs set up for the conventions in BOS and
NY during the last election campaign, and I will not be surprised when
they set up the same TFRs around whatever city is unlucky enough to
get stuck with them next time around.

Annoying, yes. Pointless, yes. Lacking in ability to do anything
meaningful but making it seem like they are doing something, yes. Do
I agree with doing it? No. Should these things be imposed? No.

Maybe I read the original post wrong, but it seemed like the poster
was implying that there was going to be a new no-purpose permanent
ADIZ over NYC which would then continue to other places, just because.
That's clearly not the case here.

Peter Clark wrote:
>
> That's clearly not the case here.

Nothing clear about it. The DC ADIZ was "temporary" when they first set it up.
The excuse for that one was an increase in the security level. Everyone expected
it to go away after the level went back down.

It didn't.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:19:14 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>Peter Clark wrote:
>>
>> That's clearly not the case here.
>
>Nothing clear about it. The DC ADIZ was "temporary" when they first set it up.

When they first set it up did they put a begin and end date in the TFR
of only 3 days?

Why do you feel that posting inaccurate "the sky is falling" type info is
helpful in any way? Or is this just flame bait?




> wrote in message
...
> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>
> We are slowly but surely proving to the world our level of intelligence
> and learning ability. From locked 3 foot fences to TFRs that serve no
> purpose except derail GA.
>
> How long does it take an airliner to go from one side of NY to the other?
> How long to scramble?
> How long to learn?
>
> What is the weight and balance of a standard Cessna vs. the carrying
> capacity of a volvo?
>
> How many times have we heard this before and done nothing about it?
>
> Why do we continue to defend the illogical just because...
>
> If you have media contacts and have not used them to help GA ... shame on
> you. shame shame.
>
>
> --
> --
> "And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a
> pilot and an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love
> with flight." -- E.B. Jeppesen
>
> ___|___
> -(*)-
> o/ \o
>
> / \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
> / ' \
>
>
>
>

wrote:
> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>
> We are slowly but surely proving to the world our level of intelligence
> and learning ability. From locked 3 foot fences to TFRs that serve no
> purpose except derail GA.
>
> How long does it take an airliner to go from one side of NY to the other?
> How long to scramble?
> How long to learn?
>
> What is the weight and balance of a standard Cessna vs. the carrying
> capacity of a volvo?

Can a Volvo hit the 83rd Floor? Boo-hoo, ride the subways.

JG

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:01:34 +0100, "Chris" >
wrote:

>
>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
>news:pO3Re.6033$Ni1.5810@trndny03...
>> wrote:
>>> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
>>> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>>
>> Nope. Chicago will be next.
>
>Looks like a knock out win by the terrorists and they don't have to do
>anything any more. Scared of shadows huh!
>
According to the National Geographic special on TV, we responded
exactly they way they had hoped.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:01:09 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

wrote:
>> DC wasn't enough. Now a new ADIZ around NY is coming with an internal
>> flight restricted zone. Will the idiocy never stop? !
>
>Nope. Chicago will be next.

I can understand concern about NYC and Washington even if it is
misplaced, but who'd miss Chicago?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>George Patterson
> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Yah, I won't go there for recreation for any reason. (Had 2 changes last
year) When I have a chance to buy anything no-aviation, I go elsewhere (and
tell them why). (I don't want to penalize a vendor for living under a
corrupt dictatorship.)

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:01:09 GMT, George Patterson
> > wrote:
>>
>>Nope. Chicago will be next.
>
> I can understand concern about NYC and Washington even if it is
> misplaced, but who'd miss Chicago?

said :


>What is the weight and balance of a standard Cessna vs. the carrying
>capacity of a volvo?

Is that an American or Swedish Volvo?



Blue skies and calm winds

Regards,
Peter Dougherty

If replying by e-mail please send to pjd at panix dot com