This just in from the AP:
*********************************************
But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
from storm victims.
"Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every one
of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"

Some Federal Emergency Management rescue operations were suspended in areas
where gunfire has broken out, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said
in Washington. "In areas where our employees have been determined to
potentially be in danger, we have pulled back," he said.

A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as the two scuffled
for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.

*********************************************

Unbelievable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wsKRe.301427$x96.41584@attbi_s72...
> This just in from the AP:
> *********************************************
> But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
> from storm victims.
> "Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
> Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every
> one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
> shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
> helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
>
> Some Federal Emergency Management rescue operations were suspended in
> areas where gunfire has broken out, Homeland Security spokesman Russ
> Knocke said in Washington. "In areas where our employees have been
> determined to potentially be in danger, we have pulled back," he said.
>
> A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as the two
> scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was
> arrested.
>
> *********************************************
>
> Unbelievable.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Send in a couple of Cobras or Apaches. They shoot back with a vengance.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wsKRe.301427$x96.41584@attbi_s72...
> This just in from the AP:
> *********************************************
> But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
> from storm victims.
> "Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
> Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every
> one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
> shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
> helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
>
> Some Federal Emergency Management rescue operations were suspended in
> areas where gunfire has broken out, Homeland Security spokesman Russ
> Knocke said in Washington. "In areas where our employees have been
> determined to potentially be in danger, we have pulled back," he said.
>
> A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as the two
> scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was
> arrested.
>
> *********************************************
>
> Unbelievable.

What we are witnessing now in the United States is the classic example of
good vs evil. In this deplorable situation, we have examples of life cut to
the raw bone and sinew of it's basic core engine; ripped wide open for us as
we watch it unfold before our eyes.
During the last several days I have seen acts of unbelievable daring and
courage by tired and over worked helo crews threading their huge machines
between power lines and obstacles that could have ended their lives at any
instant they made the slightest mistake; to save some nameless and faceless
obscure fellow human being in desperate need of assistance. There are as we
speak nurses who have gone without sleep for days working by hand
respirators attached to patients at hospitals. These nurses don't know the
fate of their own families and homes, but are caring for the people being
brought in.
I've also seen a segment of ignorance and stupidity that is almost beyond
belief, as some of my fellow human beings attempt to take advantage of the
situation by stealing electrical appliances and other items that not only
won't work under the conditions, but serve no useful survival purpose
whatsoever.
Shooting at the helos is sheer madness. It won't make them come, and could
in fact prevent them from coming. This is ignorance at it's highest level if
in fact the reports are true.
Of all the images; all the desolation; all the horror and despair I have
seen these last few days, I think I will carry with me to the day I die the
image of that poor, totally broken black man relating to the world, asking
nothing for himself but to be heard, the horror of his choice in the middle
of the night at the height of the storm as he struggled desperately to hold
on to his wife with one hand and his children with the other. The look of
sheer agony on his face as he told the reporter about the instant he had to
let her go to save his children was heart wrenching and shattering and I for
one will never forget it.
You may rest assured that when this thing has run it's course and everything
that has made up this horrible experience has been tallied up and the
country moves on, life in the United States will have experienced a paradigm
shift, and life as we have known it in our country will never be quite the
same again.
I sincerely hope that when these tallies are finalized, the better stuff of
our people will have triumphed over the criminal and ignorant side of this
deeply human experience.

Dudley Henriques

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wsKRe.301427$x96.41584@attbi_s72...
> This just in from the AP:
> *********************************************
> But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
> from storm victims.
> "Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
> Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every
one
> of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
> shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
> helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
>
> Some Federal Emergency Management rescue operations were suspended in
areas
> where gunfire has broken out, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said
> in Washington. "In areas where our employees have been determined to
> potentially be in danger, we have pulled back," he said.
>
> A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as the two
scuffled
> for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.
>
> *********************************************
>
> Unbelievable.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


The going gets tough and the homeland security wimps bail. Osama is
laughing his ass off.

I'm a strong believer in Darwinism.

Helicopter flies near.

Idiot shoots at helicopter.

Helicopter flies away.

Idiot drowns.

If only the process were that swift.

In article et>,
"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:

> You may rest assured that when this thing has run it's course and everything
> that has made up this horrible experience has been tallied up and the
> country moves on, life in the United States will have experienced a paradigm
> shift, and life as we have known it in our country will never be quite the
> same again.

I'd hope that part of this paradigm shift would be a real, genuine
recognition that we've got to continuously maintain, repair, upgrade,
keep in solid working condition our civic and civil infrastructure, both
our physical infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams, levees, pumps, power
and communications systems, whatever) *and* our human and governmental
infrastructures (people, skills, tools, training, supplies, backups).

We need to maintain these civil infrastructures over the long term just
as well as the vast majority of the people on this group, for example,
will maintain their own airplanes and their personal flying skills, and
just as well as many other people -- but unfortunately not all -- try to
maintain their houses and cars and neighborhoods and schools.

But I don't think it will happen. To be political, here -- since
maintenance of civil infrastructure is at base always a political
decision -- the loonies of the Left won't do it because they're too
diverted by varying combinations of political correctness, inability to
really face hard problems and hard decisions, and New Age nuttiness; and
the nutcases on the Right won't do it because they're too caught up in
their irrational anti-tax and "market forces" ideologies (and as a side
issue, too many of them are able to buffer themselves from disasters or
just from the deterioration of the society around them, and so have
little need or motivation to support its maintenance).

"Mike W." wrote:

> I'm a strong believer in Darwinism.

Me, too:

Idiot species attempts to re-engineer nature.

Idiot species over populates planet.

Idiot species pollutes only home it's got.

Idiot species perishes.

"AES" wrote:
>
>> You may rest assured that when this thing has run it's course and
>> everything
>> that has made up this horrible experience has been tallied up and the
>> country moves on, life in the United States will have experienced a
>> paradigm
>> shift, and life as we have known it in our country will never be
>> quite the
>> same again.
>
> I'd hope that part of this paradigm shift would be a real, genuine
> recognition that we've got to continuously maintain, repair, upgrade,
> keep in solid working condition our civic and civil infrastructure,

No way. We need the money for Iraq...oh, yeah, and for a manned mission
to Mars.

Mike W. wrote:
> I'm a strong believer in Darwinism.
>
> Helicopter flies near.
>
> Idiot shoots at helicopter.
>
> Helicopter flies away.
>
> Idiot drowns.
>
> If only the process were that swift.
>
>

That's fine as far as it goes. I'm just wondering about the
little old lady that the helicopter was actually trying to rescue.

Hey, don't criticize the war in Iraq. After all, THEY were the ones who
knocked down the World Trade Center (the Alquida Iraq connection
remember?). Not only THAT but they have Weapons of Mass Distruction.
But even if those aren't true, the war is all about the efficient and
inexpensive flow of oil, right?

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> What we are witnessing now in the United States is the classic example of
> good vs evil.

What we are witnessing is a result of several generations of breeding a type
of individual that expects government to take care of their every need from
cradle to grave, with no requirement of any level of responsibility on their
part... then when there is an interruption of flow from the nipple they
get angry.

Dan Luke wrote:
> Idiot species attempts to re-engineer nature.

Insert:

Idiot species elects incompetent leftists to re-engineer society that will
self-destruct when the going gets tough.

>
> Idiot species over populates planet.
>
> Idiot species pollutes only home it's got.
>
> Idiot species perishes.
>
>

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:33:16 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>"Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
>Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every one
>of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
>shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
>helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"

What a way to persuade someone to rescue you!

My instinct tells me that this sort of rumor races around every
chaotic situation, and that very few if any holes will actually be
found in the helicopter fleet.

Still, I am a bit embarrassed by the reaction of American victims as
compared to the Thais, Indonesians, etc. at their recent catastrophe.
Perhaps it's only because the TV coverage is more intense, and the
language is English? I can't get out of my mind the image of the woman
who glares at the camera and says flatly: "I need my insulin." I might
be wrong, and I'm sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes,
but it seems to me that she has spent her life having her needs
delivered to her by government servants at taxpayer expense.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Unfortunately you left out the first step:

Idiot spawns little idiots..

Helicopter flies near ...

"Mike W." > wrote in message
...
> I'm a strong believer in Darwinism.
>
> Helicopter flies near.
>
> Idiot shoots at helicopter.
>
> Helicopter flies away.
>
> Idiot drowns.
>
> If only the process were that swift.
>
>

"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>> What we are witnessing now in the United States is the classic example of
>> good vs evil.
>
> What we are witnessing is a result of several generations of breeding a
> type
> of individual that expects government to take care of their every need
> from
> cradle to grave, with no requirement of any level of responsibility on
> their
> part... then when there is an interruption of flow from the nipple they
> get angry.
>

Agreed, my wife and I couldn't believe as we watched the news on the day
they were lined up to get into the Superdome one woman, who was being
interviewed had nothing but her purse with her. She was asked where her
belongings were, she said she didn't need any, the Red Cross would take care
of her.

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> Still, I am a bit embarrassed by the reaction of American victims as
> compared to the Thais, Indonesians, etc. at their recent catastrophe.

I'm not sure what you mean here. There was significant reporting of similar
opportunism with respect to the tsunami aftermath and relief efforts. If
anything, it's interesting how such supposedly widely different cultures
revert to the same basic human flaws when stressed in similar ways.

If anything, there were even worse violations of basic human rights during
the tsunami crisis, most likely just because of the more wide-spread
disruption.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote:

> If anything, there were even worse violations of basic human rights
> during the tsunami crisis, most likely just because of the more
> wide-spread disruption.

It's interesting how shocked America is at the looting in N. O., as if
no one could have expected such a thing, or that modern morality has
sunk to a new low.

In the aftermath of the 1900 Galveston storm, looting was widespread.
Many corpses had fingers cut off by robbers to steal their rings.
Commercial boat owners formed a trust and charged extortionate prices to
ferry desperate refugees to the mainland.

It would have been truly surprising if any kind of civil order had
survived this current disaster in N. O.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:49:26 GMT, "Allen" >
wrote:

>had nothing but her purse with her. She was asked where her
>belongings were, she said she didn't need any, the Red Cross would take care
>of her.

I suppose she needed the purse because of the photo ID?

Or Medicaid card.

I suppose what we're doing here is a classic example of blaming the
victim. I do not ordinarily watch TV except during invasions and
natural calamities, but I have to say that when my wife asks if this
is to be dinner with Smiling Charlie Gibson or out on the porch, I now
opt for the porch. I can't bear to watch the New Orleans coverage, and
not because of the damage. It's the people!

Reminds me of an Englishman I knew in Frankfurt years ago. A friend of
his had been at Dunkirk during the great evacuation in May 1940.

What was it like?

"My dear chap," answered the friend. "The noise. The smell. The
PEOPLE."



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Jay Honeck wrote:
> A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as the two scuffled
> for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.
>
> *********************************************
>
> Unbelievable.


Just a few months ago, my son returned from a 16 month tour of night
time raids and searching for IEDs in Iraq. His upcoming leave was
cancelled; right now he and a bunch of his friends (along with their
field equipment and weapons) are deploying into the disaster area.

One way or another, I think that the looting and stealing and raping
will be coming to an immediate stop. We can only hope that meaningful
recovery can begin soon.....

-Dave Russell

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> In the aftermath of the 1900 Galveston storm, looting was widespread.
....
> Commercial boat owners formed a trust and charged extortionate prices to
> ferry desperate refugees to the mainland.

Do you have a cite for this last one? I've heard just the opposite.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

>> In the aftermath of the 1900 Galveston storm, looting was widespread.
> ...
>> Commercial boat owners formed a trust and charged extortionate prices
>> to
>> ferry desperate refugees to the mainland.
>
> Do you have a cite for this last one? I've heard just the opposite.

http://lowery.tamu.edu/personal/songs/hurricane/thestorm/1900strm.htm

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wsKRe.301427$x96.41584@attbi_s72...
> This just in from the AP:
> *********************************************
> But across the flooded-out city, the rescuers themselves came under attack
> from storm victims.
> "Hospitals are trying to evacuate," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri
> Ben-Iesan, spokesman at the city emergency operations center. "At every
> one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are
> shooting at them. There are people just taking potshots at police and at
> helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
> *********************************************
>
> Unbelievable.

Right, which calls for due skepticism before believing it. In another thread
here, Rick just posted a link to an article by National Post colmnist Matt
Welch titled "The Deadly Bigotry of Low Expectations? Did the rumor mill
help kill Katrina victims?". The article challenges several key rumors about
the extent of the violence in N.O., including:

**********
And it's entirely possible that, like the chimeric Baton Rouge hordes,
exaggerations about New Orleans' criminality affected policy, mostly by
delaying rescue operations and the provision of aid. Relief efforts ground
to a halt last week after reports circulated of looters shooting at
helicopters, yet none of the hundreds of articles I read on the subject
contained a single first-hand confirmation from a pilot or eyewitness. The
suspension-triggering attack-on a military Chinook attempting to evacuate
refugees from the Superdome-was contested by Federal Aviation Administration
spokeswoman Laura Brown, who told ABC News, "We're controlling every single
aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on." What's
more, when asked about the attacks, Department of Homeland Security
Secretary Michael Chertoff replied: "I haven't actually received a confirmed
report of someone firing on a helicopter."
http://www.reason.com/links/links090605.shtml
**********

Or concerning the stories of children raped and murdered in the superdome
bathrooms:

**********
"We don't have any substantiated rapes," New Orleans Police superintendent
Edwin Compass said yesterday, according to the Guardian. "We will
investigate if the individuals come forward." The British paper further
pointed out that, "While many claim they happened, no witnesses, survivors
or survivors' relatives have come forward. Nor has the source for the story
of the murdered babies, or indeed their bodies, been found. And while the
floor of the convention centre toilets were indeed covered in excrement, the
Guardian found no corpses."
[same link]
**********

Obviously there was violence in N.O., and perhaps even some of the worst
horror stories will turn out to be true. But we should be in no rush to
believe those stories without proof.

--Gary

Someone just got charged with shooting at a chopper.

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8CEVR5O3.html

I wonder how they'll be able to proove his guilt, he could just say
that he was shooting out the window in another direction.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Someone just got charged with shooting at a chopper.
>
> http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8CEVR5O3.html
>
> I wonder how they'll be able to proove his guilt, he could just say
> that he was shooting out the window in another direction.

The article does not make a remotely convincing case that he was shooting at
a helicopter (see my response to your post in the other helicopter thread).
We'll see though.

--Gary

kontiki wrote:
> What we are witnessing is a result of several generations of breeding a
> type
> of individual that expects government to take care of their every need from
> cradle to grave, with no requirement of any level of responsibility on
> their
> part... then when there is an interruption of flow from the nipple they
> get angry.
>
Yes indeed. Generation of breeding... starting in shackles and chains
on stinking slave ships where food was shoveled and water splashed.
Once broken under the whip and rod, docility was bred. Those that
escaped or resisted were killed or deliberately maimed ensuring only the
proper behaviour was passed on.

When the horror became too much for this dear country, the government
passed laws to free and yet clearly keep certain people limited in the
roles in society. Customs and common sense were also expected. Lynching
was used for those that didn't follow customs or exhibit the proper
common sense.

When the unfairness of that situation became too much for this dear
country, we changed the laws and offered equality and tried to remedy
generations of 'breeding' with an extensive welfare system, and other
government programs.

When the unfairness of that situation became too much for this dear
country, we changed the laws and dismantled those programs.

Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?

Cub Driver wrote:
> I can't get out of my mind the image of the woman
> who glares at the camera and says flatly: "I need my insulin." I might
> be wrong, and I'm sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes,
> but it seems to me that she has spent her life having her needs
> delivered to her by government servants at taxpayer expense.


You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
(as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time. If a
natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
flatly: I need insulin for my daughter". Wanting to live or keep
loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things! But I'm guessing you
don't have any life-threatening diseases, and have likely never
encountered any "real" hardship in your life. You are simply... better
than the general population, since you don't rely on any governement
sevices (servants) and cost us taxpayers nothing.

I have seen many images of people during the Katrina aftermath that
have made me ashamed of the human race. The image of the woman
pleading for medicine that is necessary to keep her alive is not one of
them...

<snip of great stuff>

> Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
> that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
> get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?

A well-written treatise, to be sure -- but I'd like to clarify something
here: Are you implying that the problems of the underclass are due to
genetics?

If so, I would like to vehemently disagree. IMHO, this is a cultural --
not a racial -- problem.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked
of the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American
history' which is so easy to forget and ignore.

I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I
think about those values that were specifically aimed and violently
enforced upon a very specific segment of our population by same
'fathers'. It's just history but so often ignored and minimized in
these sometimes thoughtless threads.

Why do I dislike off topic? Because too much of it is offensive to too
many. I can go to the local bar to debate this stuff. The airport bar
if I want to do it with pilots.

Jay Honeck wrote:
> <snip of great stuff>
>
>>Unfortunately, some of those *******s are still somehow effected by all
>>that breeding and history. If they'd just grab their own bootstraps and
>>get on with it. What's the hell is the problem?
>
>
> A well-written treatise, to be sure -- but I'd like to clarify something
> here: Are you implying that the problems of the underclass are due to
> genetics?
>
> If so, I would like to vehemently disagree. IMHO, this is a cultural --
> not a racial -- problem.

> wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Cub Driver wrote:
>> I can't get out of my mind the image of the woman
>> who glares at the camera and says flatly: "I need my insulin." I might
>> be wrong, and I'm sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes,
>> but it seems to me that she has spent her life having her needs
>> delivered to her by government servants at taxpayer expense.
>
>
> You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
> (as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
> disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
> insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
> water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
> challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time. If a
> natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
> destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
> flatly: I need insulin for my daughter".

How about when you know a disaster is coming you plan accordingly and have
alternatives ready?

How about REQUESTING help, rather than demanding it like a spolied brat?

> Wanting to live or keep
> loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things! But I'm guessing you
> don't have any life-threatening diseases, and have likely never
> encountered any "real" hardship in your life. You are simply... better
> than the general population, since you don't rely on any governement
> sevices (servants) and cost us taxpayers nothing.

You've completely missed his point which was not so much about diabetics,
but about those who use them to become dependant, then demand resolution.

My condolences for you daughter, but you're her worst enemy if you're
preparing her for such dependancy.

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
om...
> No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked of
> the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American history'
> which is so easy to forget and ignore.
>
> I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I think
> about those values that were specifically aimed and violently enforced
> upon a very specific segment of our population by same 'fathers'.

If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.

You know, as one grows in knowledge and maturity one _usually_ gathers a
great sense of context. That is one major facet of the maturing process.

You missed a whole bunch of it.

...and you don't have a clue.

Doof wrote:
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked of
>>the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American history'
>>which is so easy to forget and ignore.
>>
>>I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I think
>>about those values that were specifically aimed and violently enforced
>>upon a very specific segment of our population by same 'fathers'.
>
>
> If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.
>
> You know, as one grows in knowledge and maturity one _usually_ gathers a
> great sense of context. That is one major facet of the maturing process.
>
> You missed a whole bunch of it.
>
>

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
om...
> ..and you don't have a clue.

I know history, and I know the context in which it happened.

You demonstrate a pertinent lack of both.

You just shoot your mouth off with what you've been fed.

Quite simply, you're the one whose clueless and ignorant to boot.

Bet $100 ou never read the personal letters of the Founders.

Bet another $10 you've never followed history other than school or TV.


>
> Doof wrote:
>> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>
>>>No. I just borrowed that abhorrent term "breeding". It's what kicked of
>>>the treatise. Think 'cultural breeding' or just plain 'American history'
>>>which is so easy to forget and ignore.
>>>
>>>I constantly hear about the "values of our founding fathers" and I think
>>>about those values that were specifically aimed and violently enforced
>>>upon a very specific segment of our population by same 'fathers'.
>>
>>
>> If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.
>>
>> You know, as one grows in knowledge and maturity one _usually_ gathers a
>> great sense of context. That is one major facet of the maturing process.
>>
>> You missed a whole bunch of it.
>>

"Doof" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> om...
>> ..and you don't have a clue.
>
> I know history, and I know the context in which it happened.
>
> You demonstrate a pertinent lack of both.
>
> You just shoot your mouth off with what you've been fed.
>
> Quite simply, you're the one whose clueless and ignorant to boot.
>
> Bet $100 ou never read the personal letters of the Founders.
>
> Bet another $10 you've never followed history other than school or TV.
>

One last thing: since YOU'RE the one just barfing back the typical
school/media line, you might get a clue about cluelessness. Prime example of
"Freudian Projection". Can you do anything with history other than play
Trivia Pursuit?

More so than before, I think you'd have been more on the Klan side.

"Doof" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> om...
>> ..and you don't have a clue.
>
> I know history, and I know the context in which it happened.
>
> You demonstrate a pertinent lack of both.
>
> You just shoot your mouth off with what you've been fed.
>
> Quite simply, you're the one whose clueless and ignorant to boot.
>
> Bet $100 ou never read the personal letters of the Founders.

Did you happen to notice the difference between their style of argument and
yours?

--Gary

wrote:
> You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
> (as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
> disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
> insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
> water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
> challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time.



Uh.... not to interrupt, but actually, you can use unrefrigerated insulin for up
to a month as long as it isn't exposed to extremes of temperature. In fact,
I've never seen insulin in the hospital refrigerated. I expect we use it up
before age becomes a factor, or the patient goes home.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Doof wrote:
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
>>..and you don't have a clue.

> I know history, and I know the context in which it happened.
>
> You demonstrate a pertinent lack of both.
>
> You just shoot your mouth off with what you've been fed.
>
> Quite simply, you're the one whose clueless and ignorant to boot.
>
> Bet $100 ou never read the personal letters of the Founders.
I'll take you at your word anonymous, $100.
I'm not sure what might be considered the personal letters of the
founders other than what is commonly called the "Federalist Papers", a
collection of writings published in support and defense of the idea of a
US constitution. Madison, Hamilton and John Jay I believe. I was first
exposed in high school but read them almost in their entirety about 3
years ago when I ran across them in my Mom's bookcase.

Is that a winner?
>
> Bet another $10 you've never followed history other than school or TV.
>
I do read.
My current reading includes
"The Command of the Ocean, A Naval History of Britain 1649 - 1815"
N.A.M. Rodger - since reading as much aviation history as I could find,
I started on maritime stuff.
Several readings I would call 'historical analysis of philosophy and
society' by Michel Faucault. "Discipline & Punish, The Birth of the
Prison" and "History of Sexuality (sic)" - both more pertinent to this
dialog than one would ever imagine.
"...Concerning the Two New Sciences" Galileo Galilei just for kicks

Can I get $10 for those?

Contact me directly for an address to send payment. I'll post the
receipt. Thanks and
please forgive me for biting...

... and you know what to replace the MD with

Mort,
I am sure you know a heck of alot more about insulin than I do,...but I
can't think of anyone down south in our heat that does not have it in the
frig. Remember in the south it can be 100 plus for weeks and weeks and
weeks. I can't imagine insulin lasting much time at all in a LA summer ,
with not even AC much less a frig? Would it be possible?

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote:
>> You clearly aren't "sorry for anyone who has to put up with diabetes"
>> (as if it were some minor annoyance and not a life-threatening
>> disease!). As a father of a type-1 diabetic, I can assure you that
>> insulin for a diabetic is as critical for survival as oxygen, food,
>> water, etc. Insulin must be kept refrigerated, which might be a
>> challenge when there is no electricity for days/weeks at a time.
>
>
>
> Uh.... not to interrupt, but actually, you can use unrefrigerated insulin
> for up to a month as long as it isn't exposed to extremes of temperature.
> In fact, I've never seen insulin in the hospital refrigerated. I expect
> we use it up before age becomes a factor, or the patient goes home.
>
>
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
>
>
>

"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Someone just got charged with shooting at a chopper.

Nope, not gonna watch an ad, or join. Got any other way, such as cut and
paste, to view the contents?
--
Jim in NC

They changed it Jim, sorry. You didn't miss anything though, it was
very brief. Some 20 yr old kid shot out of his wnidow while a
helicopter was flying overhead and there was an agent in the area
investigating reports of shooting. The article said he was charged.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

wrote:
If a
> natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
> destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
> flatly: I need insulin for my daughter". Wanting to live or keep
> loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things!

Interesting choice.
I would think you would say, "Get us out of here now!"

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> If a
>> natural disaster were to hit my home area and our supply of insulin was
>> destroyed, I can't promise that I wouldn't "glare at the camera and say
>> flatly: I need insulin for my daughter". Wanting to live or keep
>> loved-ones alive makes us do such extreme things!
>
> Interesting choice.
> I would think you would say, "Get us out of here now!"

A civilized, mature adult would say: "Please get us out of here now!"

Doof wrote:
>
> If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.

Sounds to me that you are assuming that "Maule Driver" is white. That's a
*really* poor idea on Usenet.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:j5OTe.649$0Q2.134@trndny01...
> Doof wrote:
>>
>> If you lived in those times, you'd have done much worse, I suspect.
>
> Sounds to me that you are assuming that "Maule Driver" is white. That's a
> *really* poor idea on Usenet.

You do remember who it was that sold blacks into slavery, don't you?