I was wondering if anyone has considered using a lightpipe or
fiberoptic bundle for nav lights. I am considering it for the rear nav
light (white) on my Europa. Is it feasible? Anyone know where I can buy
these lightpipes?

I should clarify. I don't mean the small acrylic stub on Cessna wings
that lets you see the nav light from the cockpit. What I mean is a
lightpipe to send the light from an LED illuminator lcoated inside the
fuselage to the tip of the rudder (or wings).

But the problem is high power LED's like Luxeons require hefty
heatsinks, which makes them not so attractive in composite structures
or confined spaces. That's why I thought a fiber optic illuminator
might be an attractive solution.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I should clarify. I don't mean the small acrylic stub on Cessna wings
> that lets you see the nav light from the cockpit. What I mean is a
> lightpipe to send the light from an LED illuminator lcoated inside the
> fuselage to the tip of the rudder (or wings).\

I don't see the advantage of doing what you are proposing.

The typical nav LED nav light has a cluster of several LED's, both for
pattern, and for brightness. I don't believe you could get the necessary
brightness for one location, let alone multiple locations, using a single
LED, or even a couple.

Even if you clustered the LED's at a central location, and piped them out to
the remote locations using fiber optics, do you think the weight or
complexity would be less? I can't imagine how. You might need lenses to
correctly distibute the light also, which would not be needed with the LED's
out at the locations.
--
Jim in NC

wrote:
> But the problem is high power LED's like Luxeons require hefty
> heatsinks, which makes them not so attractive in composite structures
> or confined spaces. That's why I thought a fiber optic illuminator
> might be an attractive solution.
>

Make yourself a fairing out of 1/4" plexiglass. Well, not a whole
fairing, just a section that would be the glass that you'd have for the
light anyway. Now drill some 3/16" holes in it. Not just any way.
Drill the holes to distribute the light of high power LEDs in the
appropriate directions. Drill the hole with a high speed drill. The
plexiglass will melt a little and you won't be able to push the bit back
in once it cools down. That's good, as the standard superbright LED
will be a push fit. Stick a 1/2W 220 ohm resistor inline with two LEDs,
then parallel all the strings. Pot it with some clear epoxy. A little
paint in the appropriate places, and it'll look like you don't even have
lights.

3/16" holes could be made in a fiberglass fuselage to make running lights.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

"Ernest Christley" > wrote

> Make yourself a fairing out of 1/4" plexiglass. Well, not a whole
> fairing, just a section that would be the glass that you'd have for the
> light anyway. Now drill some 3/16" holes in it. Not just any way.
> Drill the holes to distribute the light of high power LEDs in the
> appropriate directions. Drill the hole with a high speed drill.

I like your thinking, but I'll add one more thing.

Modify your drill bit, or buy one for Plexiglas, or you risk cracking your
Plexiglas.

Use a dermal tool with a thin cutoff wheel, and use the side of it to change
the angle of the leading cutoff edge of the bit. As it is, there is a
positive angle to the bit, which is usually good for lifting the chips of
metal away, and helping the bit to self feed through the metal. That is a
"bad thing" for plexi. You want to have a 0 degree, or perhaps -1 degree
edge to the bit to "scrape" the material away, and that will pretty much
eliminate the chance of cracking the plexi. The drill bit, unmodified, will
try to pull it's way through the soft plexi too fast, which can cause the
cracking.
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:23 -0500, "Morgans" > wrote:

>Use a dermal tool with a thin cutoff wheel....

A dermal tool with a cutoff wheel? Maybe you ought to start seeing doctors who
were trained SINCE the Civil War.... :-)

Ron "Dremel" Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote

> A dermal tool with a cutoff wheel? Maybe you ought to start seeing
doctors who
> were trained SINCE the Civil War.... :-)

<chuckle>

"Curse you, Red Baron!" ((now mounting his trusty low monowing))

I've been doing my share of laughing at other's typo's lately... Bad karma
was destined to come my way! <g>

Darn Spell Checker! Yeah, that's the ticket! That's my story, and I'm
stickin' to it! <g>
--
Jim in NC

In article >, Morgans says...

Typo?? What Typo? I happen to own 3 Dermal tools with cut off wheels! Slavo
Dermal built them in an obscure corner of the Black Sea years ago. It runs on 7
,12 volt car batteries and weighs a mere 18lbs ready to go ,less batteries. It's
a very portable unit. I had a bit of trouble with the chain drive lubrication
but since it can cut railroad tracks I don't see why it won't cut fiber optic
parts just as easily if properly lubricated. Mine are mounted on a horse drawn
cart for portability.

DERMAL ..if your not careful it'll take your skin off!! That's the Dermal motto
as is "If it's gotta go ,we can send it". Opps that's the motto for SPU.Never
mind

Chuck (sorry I couldn't help myself) S


> wrote
>
>> A dermal tool with a cutoff wheel? Maybe you ought to start seeing
>doctors who
>> were trained SINCE the Civil War.... :-)
>
><chuckle>
>
>"Curse you, Red Baron!" ((now mounting his trusty low monowing))
>
>I've been doing my share of laughing at other's typo's lately... Bad karma
>was destined to come my way! <g>
>
>Darn Spell Checker! Yeah, that's the ticket! That's my story, and I'm
>stickin' to it! <g>

In article >, Morgans says...
>I like your thinking, but I'll add one more thing.
>
>Modify your drill bit, or buy one for Plexiglas, or you risk cracking your
>Plexiglas.
>
>Use a dermal tool with a thin cutoff wheel, and use the side of it to change
>the angle of the leading cutoff edge of the bit. As it is, there is a
>positive angle to the bit, which is usually good for lifting the chips of
>metal away, and helping the bit to self feed through the metal. That is a
>"bad thing" for plexi. You want to have a 0 degree, or perhaps -1 degree
>edge to the bit to "scrape" the material away, and that will pretty much
>eliminate the chance of cracking the plexi. The drill bit, unmodified, will
>try to pull it's way through the soft plexi too fast, which can cause the
>cracking.

It doesn't hurt to use some water for a coolant while drilling to keep the
plexiglass from expanding .On a small hole I just dip the drill bit into a cup
of water ,enough will stay on the drill to do the job. Flattening the drill bit
or getting one specifically for plastic definitly will make the job alot
easier.Good Luck

See ya

Chuck (I have 3 Dermal tools) S

>snip> Flattening the drill bit
> or getting one specifically for plastic definitly will make the job alot
> easier.Good Luck
>

The easiest way is to fist drill a 1/2 inch deep hole into concrete to dull
the edge of the bit. Local plastic place does this with cheap shop Chinese
drill bits instead of buying flash expensive drill bits!

Hope this helps,
Pete

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote

> Chuck (I have 3 Dermal tools)

So, you must have a lot of derma missing, with all of those tools, huh?

Nah, never mind, I've seen pictures of you! <g>
--
Jim in NC

Bushy Pete wrote:
>>snip> Flattening the drill bit
>>or getting one specifically for plastic definitly will make the job alot
>>easier.Good Luck
>>
>
>
> The easiest way is to fist drill a 1/2 inch deep hole into concrete to dull
> the edge of the bit. Local plastic place does this with cheap shop Chinese
> drill bits instead of buying flash expensive drill bits!
>
> Hope this helps,
> Pete
>
>

The easiest way is to just use the bits you already have in your toolbox
and modify your technique to suit the material.

I've seen those expensive bits. Never bought one. And I've never
cracked plexiglass drilling a hole since I've learned to do it right. I
just crank the drill as fast as it will go and let it burn it's way
through, clean the cruft, let it cool and burn through it again. The
sides come out rubbed smooth, and the edges just need a little chamfering.

You're locally heating the plastic with this method, so the hole won't
be the exact size of the bit, but is there such a thing as a precision
hole in plexiglass? No! All the holes should be oversized to leave room
for thermal expansion (as everyone knows) and for the superbright LEDs
you want it slightly undersized so that the LED is a push fit.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

"Ernest Christley" > wrote

> The easiest way is to just use the bits you already have in your toolbox
> and modify your technique to suit the material.

I disagree. The right way to drill _any_ material, is to us the correct
bit for the job.

You wouldn't use a concrete bit for drilling steel. You wouldn't use a wood
bit for drilling concrete.

What you are proposing does work, most of the time. It is _not_ the correct
way, though, no matter what you say.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
> "Ernest Christley" > wrote
>
>
>>The easiest way is to just use the bits you already have in your toolbox
>>and modify your technique to suit the material.
>
>
> I disagree. The right way to drill _any_ material, is to us the correct
> bit for the job.
>
> You wouldn't use a concrete bit for drilling steel. You wouldn't use a wood
> bit for drilling concrete.
>
> What you are proposing does work, most of the time. It is _not_ the correct
> way, though, no matter what you say.

He didn't say it was the best way; he said it was the easiest way.

Matt

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> I disagree. The right way to drill _any_ material, is to us the correct
> bit for the job.

I find the Unibit does a great job on acrylic.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/3115991/103-0058807-6775065

Rich S.

"Rich S." > wrote

> I find the Unibit does a great job on acrylic.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/3115991/103-0058807-6775065

Hmm, I have never thought of, or tried that. I would think it would, since
it has a small positive rake, and does not self feed, and would take off
only a small amount per step. I'll definitely have to try that out.

I can rarely find my modified bits when I need them, and have to create a
new one. I paint them red, so they stand out in the "bit box" but that does
not always guarantee that I will find one...

Thanks!
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hmm, I have never thought of, or tried that. I would think it would,
> since
> it has a small positive rake, and does not self feed, and would take off
> only a small amount per step. I'll definitely have to try that out.

The other plus is that it can chamfer the edge when the desired diameter is
attained. :)

Rich S.

Aircraft Spruce has the fiberoptic dash lights, by fiberlite.... you may not
like the price, but they got em. and a lot more.
david
www.aircraftspruce.com


"Rich S." > wrote in message
. ..
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Hmm, I have never thought of, or tried that. I would think it would,
> > since
> > it has a small positive rake, and does not self feed, and would take off
> > only a small amount per step. I'll definitely have to try that out.
>
> The other plus is that it can chamfer the edge when the desired diameter
is
> attained. :)
>
> Rich S.
>
>

"David Koehler" > wrote in message
...
> Aircraft Spruce has the fiberoptic dash lights, by fiberlite.... you may
not
> like the price, but they got em. and a lot more.
> david
> www.aircraftspruce.com

Yes, and while they are neat, we are talking nav. lights. The light levels
needed to be displayed are many times greater.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
> "Ernest Christley" > wrote
>
>
>>The easiest way is to just use the bits you already have in your toolbox
>>and modify your technique to suit the material.
>
>
> I disagree. The right way to drill _any_ material, is to us the correct
> bit for the job.
>
> You wouldn't use a concrete bit for drilling steel. You wouldn't use a wood
> bit for drilling concrete.
>

You don't know me very well, do you? 8*) Probably wouldn't use the
concrete bit on steel. The tip is brittle. If the concrete isn't to
thick, though, the wood bit will work in a pinch (as long as it's a
cheap bit. Someone will catch hell if they use my GOOD wood bits on
concrete.)

> What you are proposing does work, most of the time. It is _not_ the correct
> way, though, no matter what you say.

What I'm proposing has worked every time I have ever tried it, and as
long as I end up with an appropriately sized hole...which is the desired
outcome...how can it be incorrect? Just because they make a specialize
bit for each and every material on the market doesn't mean I have to buy
and track one of each (the buying sucks, the keeping track so that it is
around when you need it...oh, that's the pits).

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

"Ernest Christley" > wrote

> Just because they make a specialize
> bit for each and every material on the market doesn't mean I have to buy

I modify my own bits.

> and track one of each (the buying sucks, the keeping track so that it is
> around when you need it...oh, that's the pits).

The finding it when you need it? Yep, that is my problem. I don't worry
about it. I can modify a new one in less than a minute, so I just make
another, usually.

I'm glad your method works for you, but I'm gun-shy. I've broken parts, and
had them break later due to what I think was heat stress from the drilling.

Different strokes for different folks. You say tomato, I say tomatoe. ;-)
--
Jim in NC