As anyone in the Upper Midwest knows, we're getting our first real winter in
many years. Temperatures well below zero (we set the record on December
7th, at minus 19), and snow every day are making life hard on everyone.

Yesterday we got hit hard, with another all-day snow. At times visibility
was reduced to zero, as the white stuff fell in dense waves. Luckily, there
was little wind, or blizzard conditions would have prevailed.

As I was out shoveling the hotel sidewalks for the fifth time, I heard a
wowing engine noise overhead, as the pilot went from flight idle to full
power. The constant speed prop took a second to catch, and then the sound
rose into a crescendo -- right over my head.

I couldn't believe it.

Looking up vainly into the intense snowfall, I followed my ears with my
eyes. Finally I caught a glimpse of the plane -- a single engine Cessna
182 -- as it flashed overhead.

In nearly knife-edge flight.

At that moment a guest walked past me on the way to the lobby. He mentioned
that it seemed like an awful night to be flying, by which point I was
already running toward the sound. The plane had disappeared into the snow
and murk, behind our Airport Building (the one closest to the runway), and I
strained to hear the *crump* sound that a light plane makes when it hits the
ground.

With the deep snow, I couldn't run fast enough, so I just stood there,
straining my eyes and ears, hoping to see the guy come around. Suddenly,
there he was -- this time directly over the field, banked at a 60 degree
angle, obviously trying desperately to keep the field in sight as he
circled.

Then, poof, he was gone. The snow just swallowed him up again.

By now, my heart was pounding. I knew this couldn't end well, and I ran
toward the airport, again straining to hear anything that might indicate a
direction of flight.

Suddenly I spotted him again, in an impossibly tight base-leg turn, barely
100 feet off the ground, coming around for Rwy 30. The wind was not
favoring this runway, but I'm sure he was just willing to take "any port in
a storm"... First visible, than not, I caught a glimpse of his landing
light again as he touched down, theoretically on the unplowed runway...

He touched down well past the halfway point of the runway, and was going way
too fast.

Now at a dead gallop, I was able to see him slide to a stop, just before the
end of the runway. The deep snow had saved him, and he stopped in an
impossibly short space...

Jogging back to my nearly-forgotten guest (who was trying to check in for
the night), I could only shake my head in wonder at what some guys will do
to fly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3Ogmf.609603$x96.519786@attbi_s72...

> Jogging back to my nearly-forgotten guest (who was trying to check in for
> the night), I could only shake my head in wonder at what some guys will do
> to fly.
> --
> Jay Honeck


You misspelled "die".

---------------------------------
DW

Wow, if you could BARELY see him. It must have been extremely hard,
maybe impossible for him to see the runway. Were the runway lights
covered up by the snow too?

The Monk

> Wow, if you could BARELY see him. It must have been extremely hard,
> maybe impossible for him to see the runway. Were the runway lights
> covered up by the snow too?

Actually, this happened right at dusk, so there was just barely enough
light for him to see the airport -- except that everything was white.
The only way he could possibly see the runways was by discerning the
difference in snow depth between the indented surface -- the runway --
and the surrounding area. Even with 6 inches of fresh snow it would
have been a different depth than the unplowed surrounding areas.
(We've got around 18 inches on the ground now...)

How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:3Ogmf.609603$x96.519786@attbi_s72...
> Now at a dead gallop, I was able to see him slide to a stop, just before
> the end of the runway. The deep snow had saved him, and he stopped in an
> impossibly short space...
>
> Jogging back to my nearly-forgotten guest (who was trying to check in for
> the night), I could only shake my head in wonder at what some guys will do
> to fly.

Scary!

Did you find out who it was flying? Was it a local? Was the whole area under
this type of weather at the time or could he have gotten vectors into CID or
someplace better? The pilot may have been trusting his GPS too much.

You should carry your Icom to listen to see if the pilot was saying anything
on Unicom, center, FSS, etc. I've often heard planes flying over around here
when weather is bad and quickly grab the scanner to hear 'missed approach,
going to xxx'.

This guy was definitely not having fun... Sounds like he "went missed" then
saw the runways and circled to land on 30. BUT if he was right over your
head when he added power, he was a bit off course for 25 and get this...
www.flightaware.com doesn't list any incoming IFR 182's yesterday! Was this
guy trying it VFR? or maybe he was on a local IFR with CID and flightaware
didn't pick it up? Just glad he made it down ok. He's lucky he didn't clip
any of those cranes you've got sticking up in the air around there!

Jim

GPS.

It's really increased the temptation to do stupid things.

--

Roger Long



"Jay Honeck" > wrote >
> How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving
> snow-storm
> and near-zero visibility is beyond me.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message ups.com...
>
> How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
> and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

A C-182...

Obviously a 1920's mail pilot in a time warp.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Nice account of a dramatic story. Hope this guy learned his lesson and
won't be trying THAT anymore.

> This guy was definitely not having fun... Sounds like he "went missed" then
> saw the runways and circled to land on 30. BUT if he was right over your
> head when he added power, he was a bit off course for 25 and get this...
> www.flightaware.com doesn't list any incoming IFR 182's yesterday! Was this
> guy trying it VFR? or maybe he was on a local IFR with CID and flightaware
> didn't pick it up? Just glad he made it down ok. He's lucky he didn't clip
> any of those cranes you've got sticking up in the air around there!

When I saw him go over in near knife-edge flight, he was heading EAST.
He clearly wasn't lined up for anything.

My guess is that he flew the VOR 36 approach, accidentally over-flew
the airport (cuz he couldn't see it), spotted it at the northeast edge
of the airport property (where we are), racked it around to keep the
runway environment in sight (which is when I spotted him), lost the
airport again, and just kinda did a "fly out for 30 seconds, do a
tear-drop 180 degree turn, fly the reciprocal heading for 30 seconds,
and hope for the best" approach.

It worked, but only just barely.

And Roger is right. Without GPS, I'll bet he wouldn't have found the
airport again.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Nicely written.

We will be stopping in to see you on our way to FTG. Looks like we will be
there on the 23rd. maybe the 22nd.

Bill Snow, Plymouth, MA

"William Snow" > wrote in message
. ..
> Nicely written.
>
> We will be stopping in to see you on our way to FTG. Looks like we will be
> there on the 23rd. maybe the 22nd.
>
> Bill Snow, Plymouth, MA

More Snow coming???

;-)

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:51:17 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> wrote in
>::

>get this...www.flightaware.com doesn't list any incoming IFR 182's yesterday!

You're right about that; in fact it doesn't even show any singles at
all:

Arrivals: Iowa City Municipal Airport (Iowa City, IA) [KIOW]

Ident Type Origin Departure Time Arrival Time
N586TC BE9L Palwaukee Municipal [KPWK] Fri 09:19AM CST Fri 10:18AM
CST
N586BC BE20 Des Moines Int'l [KDSM] Thu 09:41PM CST Thu 10:08PM CST
N401WD C401 Minneapolis St Paul Int'l [KMSP] Thu 02:33PM CST Thu
03:48PM CST
N904US BE90 L O Simenstad Municipal [KOEO] Thu 12:33PM CST Thu
01:46PM CST
N558TH BE58 Huntsville Int'l Carl T Jones Field [KHSV] Wed 03:47PM
CST Wed 06:21PM CST
N447J C303 Waukesha Co [KUES] Wed 02:29PM CST Wed 03:31PM CST
N421DB C421 Waukegan Regional [KUGN] Wed 01:44PM CST Wed 02:48PM CST
N350J B350 Lewis University [KLOT] Wed 01:25PM CST Wed 02:07PM CST
N904US BE90 Anoka Co Blaine [KANE] Wed 12:16PM CST Wed 01:25PM CST
N9164N BE55 Mason Co [KLDM] Wed 07:24AM EST Wed 07:56AM

Jay Honeck wrote:

> How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
> and near-zero visibility is beyond me.

I've only flown through snow once, and the visibility wasn't as bad as this
case, but I found that I could see down *much* better than I could see ahead. I
expect he had a much better view of the airport than you did of anything.

That said, from your description he certainly seemed desperate to keep the
airport in sight. His visibility couldn't have been very good.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

> My guess is that he flew the VOR 36 approach,

THAT explains a LOT more! :) I didn't know he was headed east when you
heard him. Definitely sounds like he missed on 36, and from a guy who flew
that approach at night in pounding rain between thunderstorms, he's lucky.
The final approach path comes in from the 019 radial of IOW, almost 20
degrees off the runway heading. Those med intensity lights blend right into
the surroundings on that approach because you can't pick out any distinct
lines and the lack of a PAPI/VASI or REILs on 36 doesn't give you any help
squaring you up. We flew the final approach for what seemed like forever
down at the minimum altitude, the only thing we would make out was the
beacon. Finally we saw the runway illuminated by the landing light, broke
right then back left and put her down. At dusk, in blinding snow, and with
everything else being white around him, it's no wonder he didn't see it.

An extended approach following the 019 radial of IOW may have shot him out
near the end of 25 and behind your airport building, but by that time he
should have gone missed. Sounds like he caught a glimpse and circled but it
also sounds like he was below mins to do that. Lucky guy.

Jim

On 9 Dec 2005 07:35:00 -0800, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
>and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.

Jay, not sure about your term "driving snow-storm". Your first
description of the situation was that luckily, there was little to no
wind although lots of snow was falling.

Using the descriptor "driving" makes it sound like there was wind.

Thanks, Corky

> >How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
> >and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.
>
> Jay, not sure about your term "driving snow-storm". Your first
> description of the situation was that luckily, there was little to no
> wind although lots of snow was falling.
>
> Using the descriptor "driving" makes it sound like there was wind.

Sorry. I guess it was only a "coasting" snow storm... Or, perhaps,
"running"?

"Walking"?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> You should carry your Icom to listen to see if the pilot was saying anything
> on Unicom, center, FSS, etc.

Now that's the kind of suggestion I'd expect to hear from a guy that
lives in Hawaii, or Phoenix, or someplace that doesn't get winter. Is
a guy from *Minnesota* really suggesting that I should carry a scanner
while I'm shoveling snow, with the temperature around minus 1 F?

Heck, if I could even find a place to hang the danged thing, I wouldn't
be able to hear it, underneath the 13 layers of clothing I was wearing!


:-)

We do play Unicom all the time in the lobby; I just happened to be
outside when this guy flew over...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Man,what a story!

Only flew in snow once, with my CFI. Started to snow a bit on our way
back from the practice area. Fairly light snow, but it was just like I
read about...lower horizontal visibility, but still pretty good vertically.

I haven't flow in over a month now, cause my schedule and the weather
didn't cooperate.

John

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Heck, if I could even find a place to hang the danged thing, I wouldn't
> be able to hear it, underneath the 13 layers of clothing I was wearing!

You could probably hear the pilot yelling expletives without listening to a
radio.

No, I don't normally carry my scanner, but I know where it is and will turn
it on when things might get interesting.

> Obviously a 1920's mail pilot in a time warp.

Yep, Jack Knight would have thought that this weather was no big deal.
And he did it in an open cockpit!

In fact, this February marks the 85th anniversary of his epic flight
through Iowa City. This flight was truly the birth of
transcontinental air mail service, which was the impetus for all
transcontinental commercial passenger service.

Read the story here:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/the_iowa_city_airport.htm We're trying
to get a historic marker put up at our airport to commemorate the
flight.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com

Jay Honeck wrote:

> As anyone in the Upper Midwest knows, we're getting our first real winter in
> many years. Temperatures well below zero (we set the record on December
> 7th, at minus 19), and snow every day are making life hard on everyone.
>
> Yesterday we got hit hard, with another all-day snow. At times visibility
> was reduced to zero, as the white stuff fell in dense waves. Luckily, there
> was little wind, or blizzard conditions would have prevailed.
>
> As I was out shoveling the hotel sidewalks for the fifth time, I heard a
> wowing engine noise overhead, as the pilot went from flight idle to full
> power. The constant speed prop took a second to catch, and then the sound
> rose into a crescendo -- right over my head.
>
> I couldn't believe it.
>
> Looking up vainly into the intense snowfall, I followed my ears with my
> eyes. Finally I caught a glimpse of the plane -- a single engine Cessna
> 182 -- as it flashed overhead.
>
> In nearly knife-edge flight.
>
> At that moment a guest walked past me on the way to the lobby. He mentioned
> that it seemed like an awful night to be flying, by which point I was
> already running toward the sound. The plane had disappeared into the snow
> and murk, behind our Airport Building (the one closest to the runway), and I
> strained to hear the *crump* sound that a light plane makes when it hits the
> ground.
>
> With the deep snow, I couldn't run fast enough, so I just stood there,
> straining my eyes and ears, hoping to see the guy come around. Suddenly,
> there he was -- this time directly over the field, banked at a 60 degree
> angle, obviously trying desperately to keep the field in sight as he
> circled.
>
> Then, poof, he was gone. The snow just swallowed him up again.
>
> By now, my heart was pounding. I knew this couldn't end well, and I ran
> toward the airport, again straining to hear anything that might indicate a
> direction of flight.
>
> Suddenly I spotted him again, in an impossibly tight base-leg turn, barely
> 100 feet off the ground, coming around for Rwy 30. The wind was not
> favoring this runway, but I'm sure he was just willing to take "any port in
> a storm"... First visible, than not, I caught a glimpse of his landing
> light again as he touched down, theoretically on the unplowed runway...
>
> He touched down well past the halfway point of the runway, and was going way
> too fast.
>
> Now at a dead gallop, I was able to see him slide to a stop, just before the
> end of the runway. The deep snow had saved him, and he stopped in an
> impossibly short space...
>
> Jogging back to my nearly-forgotten guest (who was trying to check in for
> the night), I could only shake my head in wonder at what some guys will do
> to fly.

It is truly amazing what a 182 can do! :-)

Matt (unfortunately a former 182 owner)

Charles K. Scott wrote:

> On 9 Dec 2005 07:35:00 -0800, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>>How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
>>and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.
>
>
> Jay, not sure about your term "driving snow-storm". Your first
> description of the situation was that luckily, there was little to no
> wind although lots of snow was falling.
>
> Using the descriptor "driving" makes it sound like there was wind.
>
> Thanks, Corky

Jay was running so fast that the snow seemed driving relative to him!
He's lost so much weight that he probably runs at 30 MPH now. :-)

Matt

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Sorry. I guess it was only a "coasting" snow storm... Or, perhaps,
> "running"?
>
> "Walking"?

How 'bout "heavy snow."

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Obviously a 1920's mail pilot in a time warp.

And Jay is Rod Sterling?

Jay Honeck wrote:
> My guess is that he flew the VOR 36 approach, accidentally over-flew
> the airport (cuz he couldn't see it), spotted it at the northeast edge
> of the airport property (where we are), racked it around to keep the
> runway environment in sight (which is when I spotted him), lost the
> airport again, and just kinda did a "fly out for 30 seconds, do a
> tear-drop 180 degree turn, fly the reciprocal heading for 30 seconds,
> and hope for the best" approach.
Hmmm...how come I don't see that on any of my approach plates? Oh,
that's right, because it's not there! As in, if you need to go missed,
follow the procedure. Cripes, he was lucky. Stupid...but lucky.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Charles K. Scott wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2005 07:35:00 -0800, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>> How he managed to do this in the failing light, in a driving snow-storm
>> and near-zero visibility is beyond me. He's one lucky SOB.
>
> Jay, not sure about your term "driving snow-storm". Your first
> description of the situation was that luckily, there was little to no
> wind although lots of snow was falling.
>
> Using the descriptor "driving" makes it sound like there was wind.
>
Doesn't really matter if there was wind or not. The aircraft
is moving at 80 knots or something like that....ever flown in
snow? It appears to be coming straight at you.

> Doesn't really matter if there was wind or not. The aircraft
> is moving at 80 knots or something like that....ever flown in
> snow? It appears to be coming straight at you.

Boy, is that true. I've flown into snow showers a few times, and have
always been struck by the "time tunnel" effect when looking straight ahead.
Visibility down is usually okay, but ahead really goes downhill, fast. It's
like driving your car in a snowstorm at night -- the snow seems to be coming
right at your face.

Luckily, when it gets extremely cold around here, snow showers are often
like late-summer thunderstorms, in that they can be easily flown around.
The guy I wrote about wasn't in any "snow shower." He was stuck in a
wide-spread snow storm that stretched from Chicago all the way back to Des
Moines. When he flew in, visibility was measured in yards, and wildly
variable. He had no business flying in that, period.

But, he made it. This time.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>> Doesn't really matter if there was wind or not. The aircraft
>> is moving at 80 knots or something like that....ever flown in
>> snow? It appears to be coming straight at you.
>
> Boy, is that true. I've flown into snow showers a few times, and have
> always been struck by the "time tunnel" effect when looking straight
> ahead. Visibility down is usually okay, but ahead really goes downhill,
> fast. It's like driving your car in a snowstorm at night -- the snow
> seems to be coming right at your face.
>
> Luckily, when it gets extremely cold around here, snow showers are often
> like late-summer thunderstorms, in that they can be easily flown around.
> The guy I wrote about wasn't in any "snow shower." He was stuck in a
> wide-spread snow storm that stretched from Chicago all the way back to Des
> Moines. When he flew in, visibility was measured in yards, and wildly
> variable. He had no business flying in that, period.

I don't doubt your ability to assess what happened, but did you talk to the
guy? In Southern Ontario and Upstate NY, lake effect means that it's almost
always snowing somewhere. PVFR is the norm. It looks crazy and it often
is. But it's something you get used to. Getting into places that look
impossible from the ground is often surprisingly easy. For example, most
pilots who fly in the north are comfortable descending into blowing snow for
a look at familiar terrain. "Comfortable" because clear air is always close
by above. The widespread snow you mention is problematic and you're
probably correct in your assessment. But, there's always another side.

moo

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

When he flew in, visibility was measured in yards, and wildly
> variable. He had no business flying in that, period.
>
> But, he made it. This time.

I wonder if it was NW Pilot? ;-o
--
Jim in NC

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:55:53 -0500, "Happy Dog"
> wrote in
>::

>For example, most
>pilots who fly in the north are comfortable descending into blowing snow for
>a look at familiar terrain. "Comfortable" because clear air is always close
>by above.

Above the clouds?

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Doesn't really matter if there was wind or not. The aircraft
>> is moving at 80 knots or something like that....ever flown in
>> snow? It appears to be coming straight at you.
>
> Boy, is that true. I've flown into snow showers a few times, and have
> always been struck by the "time tunnel" effect when looking straight ahead.
> Visibility down is usually okay, but ahead really goes downhill, fast. It's
> like driving your car in a snowstorm at night -- the snow seems to be coming
> right at your face.


One other little phenomena which will give you the heebie-jeebies when flying in
snow: the howl of the radios.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Ron Natalie wrote:

> ever flown in
> snow? It appears to be coming straight at you.

That's because it pretty much is coming straight at you.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message

>>For example, most
>>pilots who fly in the north are comfortable descending into blowing snow
>>for
>>a look at familiar terrain. "Comfortable" because clear air is always
>>close
>>by above.
>
> Above the clouds?

Often there are no clouds. I was referring to drifting snow which can
obscure the ground in a blink. It's unpredictable stuff and looks
foreboding from above but the visibility often is not so bad when you get
down into it. Not always though. Things can go all white in a hurry so
it's comforting to know that there's clear air nearby.

moo

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote

> One other little phenomena which will give you the heebie-jeebies when
flying in
> snow: the howl of the radios.

Would static wicks help that? I wonder if a STC is available (to install
them) for what you fly?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote:

>> One other little phenomena which will give you the heebie-jeebies
>> when
> flying in
>> snow: the howl of the radios.
>
> Would static wicks help that?

Maybe. My airplane has wicks. The only time I ever flew in snow, I
heard nothing unusual from the radios.

--
Dan

"The future has actually been here for a while, it's just not readily
available to everyone."
- some guy at MIT

Morgans wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote
>
>>One other little phenomena which will give you the heebie-jeebies when flying in
>>snow: the howl of the radios.
>
> Would static wicks help that? I wonder if a STC is available (to install
> them) for what you fly?

My avionics tech told me that my Maule didn't need wicks -- with a cruise speed
of 103 knots, there wouldn't be enough static to worry about. The one time I
flew through snow, the radio behaved normally.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

George Patterson wrote:
> My avionics tech told me that my Maule didn't need wicks -- with a cruise
> speed of 103 knots, there wouldn't be enough static to worry about. The one
> time I flew through snow, the radio behaved normally.


I was flying through snow in a C-210... which I think *had* static wicks. I
think it was really dry snow though.

As a funny aside, I had been hanging around the Rock Hill, SC airport doing this
and that on a balmy March day in cutoffs, t-shirt and flip-flops when I was
asked if I wanted to come along on the trip up to Syracuse, NY. As we flew
further north, the weather changed pretty dramatically and that's when I
encountered the snow and the howling radios. You should have seen the looks I
got when I hopped out of the Centurion in New York and made a mad dash for the
terminal amongst all the ice and snow. I was a frozen poopsicle by the time I
got inside.

"Hi! I'm from South Carolina!"




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:05:36 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> wrote:

>"Hi! I'm from South Carolina!"


Good story, thanks for the laugh.

z

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote in
om:

<Snipola>
> You should have seen the looks I got when I hopped out of the
> Centurion in New York and made a mad dash for the terminal amongst all
> the ice and snow. I was a frozen poopsicle by the time I got inside.
>
> "Hi! I'm from South Carolina!"

If you could do the accent, you could have said something about it
feeling like a warm day back home in Siberia.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Like censorship and not getting support help? Switch to Supernews!
They won't even answer questions through your ISP!

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" > wrote

> You should have seen the looks I
> got when I hopped out of the Centurion in New York and made a mad dash for
the
> terminal amongst all the ice and snow. I was a frozen poopsicle by the
time I
> got inside.
>
> "Hi! I'm from South Carolina!"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Man, you have a lot to learn!

You have to get out, saunter in like you have all of the time in the world,
and are in no hurry to get anywhere. You have to be as tough as nails, too;
don't even show a goosebump.

You then say in you best drawn out, slow Southern drawl,

"Haay, all y'all. (plural for y'all) Aye'm fraom Sooauth Car-rali'nah."

You got that?

*Do* try and not to let us down next time, ya'hear now? <bfg>


When I was taking my Southern born fiancé up to Ohio to meet all of my
friends (yes, I am a Yankee) for the first time, when we crossed into Ohio,
we were preparing to meet them, and just before we got out of the car, I
said, (I had been planning this for some time)

"Honey, these people are my really good friends, so try not to say too much,
so they don't laugh at you too much." <g>

She said, "You know I'm going to have to lay it on REALLY thick now,
right?" I grinned, and said, "OK, but try not to embarrass yourself TOO
much, right?"

She STILL married me! :-)
--
Jim in NC

Heard about the seaplane that landed in Louisiana, beached
on the shore and the pilot got out and waded ashore. The
locals knew he was a northerner because the locals know
about snakes, alligators and smaller nasty stuff in the
water.

Glad you made it to an airport and not a forced landing
somewhere enroute. Some survival gear is always a good idea
and a Zippo even if you don't smoke.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
> wrote
|
| > You should have seen the looks I
| > got when I hopped out of the Centurion in New York and
made a mad dash for
| the
| > terminal amongst all the ice and snow. I was a frozen
poopsicle by the
| time I
| > got inside.
| >
| > "Hi! I'm from South Carolina!"
| +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
| Man, you have a lot to learn!
|
| You have to get out, saunter in like you have all of the
time in the world,
| and are in no hurry to get anywhere. You have to be as
tough as nails, too;
| don't even show a goosebump.
|
| You then say in you best drawn out, slow Southern drawl,
|
| "Haay, all y'all. (plural for y'all) Aye'm fraom Sooauth
Car-rali'nah."
|
| You got that?
|
| *Do* try and not to let us down next time, ya'hear now?
<bfg>
|
|
| When I was taking my Southern born fiancé up to Ohio to
meet all of my
| friends (yes, I am a Yankee) for the first time, when we
crossed into Ohio,
| we were preparing to meet them, and just before we got out
of the car, I
| said, (I had been planning this for some time)
|
| "Honey, these people are my really good friends, so try
not to say too much,
| so they don't laugh at you too much." <g>
|
| She said, "You know I'm going to have to lay it on REALLY
thick now,
| right?" I grinned, and said, "OK, but try not to
embarrass yourself TOO
| much, right?"
|
| She STILL married me! :-)
| --
| Jim in NC
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Glad you made it to an airport and not a forced landing
> somewhere enroute. Some survival gear is always a good idea
> and a Zippo even if you don't smoke.


Are you kidding? Those cigarettes can kill you!



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

You don't need the cigarettes, just a reliable source of
fire and a good knife. Gerber makes some nice small
hatchets for cutting a shelter out of the trees. You may
want to fly in your loafers and polo shirt, but at least
carry some clothes that will keep you and your passengers
frostbite free for a few days until they find you.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" >
wrote in message
om...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Glad you made it to an airport and not a forced landing
| > somewhere enroute. Some survival gear is always a good
idea
| > and a Zippo even if you don't smoke.
|
|
| Are you kidding? Those cigarettes can kill you!
|
|
|
| --
| Mortimer Schnerd, RN
|
|
|
|

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:4_jnf.28490$QW2.17761@dukeread08...
> You don't need the cigarettes, just a reliable source of
> fire and a good knife. Gerber makes some nice small
> hatchets for cutting a shelter out of the trees.

This is MUCH better than a Zippo!!

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/BLZ-PB207.html


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Pressurized butane, sold only to businesses, and certainly
not approved under FAR 91 or HMR 175

I'll stick with my Zippo. If you need fire while in the
wild and the aircraft is still somewhat intact, fuel, oil
and upholstery burn and you can use a spark from the battery
to get it started, but away from the wreckage, please.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:4_jnf.28490$QW2.17761@dukeread08...
| > You don't need the cigarettes, just a reliable source of
| > fire and a good knife. Gerber makes some nice small
| > hatchets for cutting a shelter out of the trees.
|
| This is MUCH better than a Zippo!!
|
| http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/BLZ-PB207.html
|
|
| --
| Matt
| ---------------------
| Matthew W. Barrow
| Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
| Montrose, CO
|
|

Matt Barrow wrote:

> This is MUCH better than a Zippo!!

Did you see the note "Not available for sale to the general public"?

I carry waterproof matches in my kit, but if I were to go the cigarette lighter
route, I would carry the old fashioned fluid type as well as a butane model. The
old Zippos will burn avgas just fine. The butane lighters may leak and run empty
after several years of storage.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:45:54 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
> wrote in
<2dDnf.28823$QW2.28560@dukeread08>:

>Pressurized butane, sold only to businesses, and certainly
>not approved under FAR 91 or HMR 175

>I'll stick with my Zippo. If you need fire while in the
>wild and the aircraft is still somewhat intact, fuel, oil
>and upholstery burn and you can use a spark from the battery
>to get it started, but away from the wreckage, please.

One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.

Marty

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:45:54 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
> > wrote in
> <2dDnf.28823$QW2.28560@dukeread08>:
>
> >Pressurized butane, sold only to businesses, and certainly
> >not approved under FAR 91 or HMR 175
>
> >I'll stick with my Zippo. If you need fire while in the
> >wild and the aircraft is still somewhat intact, fuel, oil
> >and upholstery burn and you can use a spark from the battery
> >to get it started, but away from the wreckage, please.
>
> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
>
> Marty

And we all know those shows are the epitome of honesty, truth and reality

..

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:58:14 GMT, "Dave Stadt" > wrote in
>:

>> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
>> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
>> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
>> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.

>And we all know those shows are the epitome of honesty, truth and reality

The guy made a tinder pile, picked lint from his socks,
spent a minute flicking the dead lighter, and the
pile burned.

YMMV.

Marty

Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:

>> Dave Stadt" > wrote

>>>One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
>>>if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
>>>your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
>>>from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
>
>
>>And we all know those shows are the epitome of honesty, truth and reality
>
>
> The guy made a tinder pile, picked lint from his socks,
> spent a minute flicking the dead lighter, and the
> pile burned.


No reason it wouldn't work. Pick the lint out of your belly-button, too.
Just let it all dry out for a couple minutes and up it goes with the
spark from the battery, your zippo, etc. Very fine steel wool is great,
too -- maybe better.


Jack

Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:58:14 GMT, "Dave Stadt" > wrote in
> >:
>
> >> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
> >> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
> >> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
> >> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
>
> >And we all know those shows are the epitome of honesty, truth and reality
>
> The guy made a tinder pile, picked lint from his socks,
> spent a minute flicking the dead lighter, and the
> pile burned.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Marty

I saw that too. The program is called "Survivorman". I caught a
couple of episodes last weekend on Discovery Science. It normally airs
on Friday evenings. Good stuff.

-R

Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:

> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.

Good tip. My socks aren't cotton, but certain other items of my normal clothing
are. Might be a good idea to make up some of that ahead and keep a baggie of it
in your kit.

I also carry some fire starter bricks. These are really just chunks of
corrugated cardboard soaked in paraffin. Touch a match to one of those, it'll
get wet wood started in a hurry.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

George Patterson > wrote in
news:kCMnf.13801$Ea6.5857@trnddc08:

> Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:
>
>> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
>> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
>> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
>> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
>
> Good tip. My socks aren't cotton, but certain other items of my normal
> clothing are. Might be a good idea to make up some of that ahead and
> keep a baggie of it in your kit.

Would some cotton balls work as good?

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Like censorship and not getting support help? Switch to Supernews!
They won't even answer questions through your ISP!

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:2dDnf.28823$QW2.28560@dukeread08...
> Pressurized butane, sold only to businesses, and certainly
> not approved under FAR 91 or HMR 175

Any business...even a realtor.

As for FAR's, until 2001, I carried on on the airlines, and I understand you
can have one in checked luggage today.

They have a 800C flame (or some such) and you can do spot welds with it.


>
> I'll stick with my Zippo. If you need fire while in the
> wild and the aircraft is still somewhat intact, fuel, oil
> and upholstery burn and you can use a spark from the battery
> to get it started, but away from the wreckage, please.

My survival kit contains a box of strike-anywhere matches in a waterproof
box as well as the lighter. With a Zippo, if you go into the ater with it,
it's a long time to dry out if it ever does.

I've seen one of these fished out of a swimming pool, shaken off and ignite
on the fourth snap.
>
>
>
> |
> | http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/BLZ-PB207.html
> |

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:VYBnf.6159$Jz6.4850@trnddc06...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>> This is MUCH better than a Zippo!!
>
> Did you see the note "Not available for sale to the general public"?

Yeah I did, but I'll let you in on a little secret....

George Patterson wrote:
>I also carry some fire starter bricks. These are really just chunks of
>corrugated cardboard soaked in paraffin. Touch a match to one of those, it'll
>get wet wood started in a hurry.

Get an old tire, cut 1/8" thick stripsx1/2"x4". burns in any weather.
A bit sticky, but gets the job done even when wet.

Flyingmonk wrote:

> Get an old tire, cut 1/8" thick stripsx1/2"x4". burns in any weather.
> A bit sticky, but gets the job done even when wet.

I'd bet it would be highly visible too.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

George Pattersonwrote:
>Flyingmonk wrote:
>> Get an old tire, cut 1/8" thick stripsx1/2"x4". burns in any weather.
>> A bit sticky, but gets the job done even when wet.

>I'd bet it would be highly visible too.

>George Patterson

I meant it is a bit stinky not sticky. I don't know about visibility,
because I only keep about ten strips in the car. It really gets fire
started. I think I read this in Field and Streams.

> > Get an old tire, cut 1/8" thick stripsx1/2"x4". burns in any weather.
> > A bit sticky, but gets the job done even when wet.
>
> I'd bet it would be highly visible too.

While the authorities might be likely to overlook the fact that you are
burning tire material in an emergency, it is against the law to
intentionally burn tires, punishable by a rather hefty fine.
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:48:32 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:
>
>> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
>> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
>> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
>> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
>
>Good tip. My socks aren't cotton, but certain other items of my normal clothing
>are. Might be a good idea to make up some of that ahead and keep a baggie of it
>in your kit.
>
>I also carry some fire starter bricks. These are really just chunks of
>corrugated cardboard soaked in paraffin. Touch a match to one of those, it'll
>get wet wood started in a hurry.
>
Too bad you can't purchase the old "Kitchen Matches any more. Make a
bundle of them, soak in parafin and instant fire starters. Now all you
can get are the safety ones.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>George Patterson
> Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
> your slightly older self.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:37:18 -0500, Roger >
wrote in >::

>Too bad you can't purchase the old "Kitchen Matches any more. Make a
>bundle of them, soak in parafin and instant fire starters. Now all you
>can get are the safety ones.

They were still available in Europe in 2001.

You shop at the wrong stores, my local Wal-Mart has cases of
kitchen matches, packed 3 boxes to a wrapper.

You can buy a safe match container, that will prevent
accidental ignition at sporting goods stores. Have not
looked to see if the Marble's brass case is still available,
but you can screw top plastic match cases.

Remember, we are talking about aircraft crashes, you've
probably good gallons of fuel and oil in the airplane and if
used properly will be enough to start a fire in about any
weather. Many small airplanes have quick drain valves on
the oil and all airplanes have sump drains for the fuel
system. Just don't build your fire too near the airplane.

Do you have a few tools to handle firewood, a small hatchet
or at least a good knife?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Roger" > wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:48:32 GMT, George Patterson
| > wrote:
|
| >Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:
| >
| >> One of the survivor shows on TV demonstrated that
| >> if you can get some very light tinder (cotton from
| >> your socks?), you can start a fire with the sparks
| >> from a lighter that isn't otherwise working.
| >
| >Good tip. My socks aren't cotton, but certain other items
of my normal clothing
| >are. Might be a good idea to make up some of that ahead
and keep a baggie of it
| >in your kit.
| >
| >I also carry some fire starter bricks. These are really
just chunks of
| >corrugated cardboard soaked in paraffin. Touch a match to
one of those, it'll
| >get wet wood started in a hurry.
| >
| Too bad you can't purchase the old "Kitchen Matches any
more. Make a
| bundle of them, soak in parafin and instant fire starters.
Now all you
| can get are the safety ones.
|
| Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
| (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
| www.rogerhalstead.com
| >George Patterson
| > Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should
by rights belong to
| > your slightly older self.

On 2005-12-15, Roger > wrote:
> Too bad you can't purchase the old "Kitchen Matches any more. Make a
> bundle of them, soak in parafin and instant fire starters. Now all you
> can get are the safety ones.

I bought a box of 'stike anywhere' Cook's Matches about three months
ago, you can buy them here at any newsagents or tobacconists.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

Is accidental ignition more common at sporting goods stores? :-)

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:mlbof.29077$QW2.2211@dukeread08...
> You can buy a safe match container, that will prevent
> accidental ignition at sporting goods stores.

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Is accidental ignition more common at sporting goods stores? :-)

No, but premature ejection is.


>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
> news:mlbof.29077$QW2.2211@dukeread08...
>> You can buy a safe match container, that will prevent
>> accidental ignition at sporting goods stores.
>
>