I am planning a trip into the Caribbean. My question is: If I have
been given a clearance from a non-radar facility. Because the
facility does not have radar they do not give me a transponder code.
What should I squawk? The same question applies to coming into a
radar-controlled environment from a non-radar environment like
approaching San Juan from Bermuda. Again, what should I squawk prior
to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
to know from where I can find the answer.

Thanks for the help ... Michael

In a previous article, (Michael) said:
>to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
>the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
>in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
>to know from where I can find the answer.

Oh no, not again.

Michael, there was a huge and long lasting flame war on this very subject
in this newsgroup. Suffice it to say, this is an extremely gray area -
nowhere does it say specifically what you should do, in either the FARs,
the AIM, or even in the ATC regs that controllers all assume we pilots
know that we've never actually even heard of until they're mentioned in
this group. The regulations *do* specifically say that you should use
1200 when VFR if you haven't been assigned a discrete code. In my
opinion, the regs don't say that's the *only* time you squawk 1200, but
that's where most of the contraversy comes from - a lot of people
vehemently disagree with that interpretation.

Other countries have specific codes for uncontrolled IFR spelled out
specifically in their regs. Lucky them.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Sometimes, when a luser makes an unreasonable demand, the best thing
to do is let them have exactly what they ask for.
-- Joe Zeff

"Michael" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I am planning a trip into the Caribbean. My question is: If I have
> been given a clearance from a non-radar facility. Because the
> facility does not have radar they do not give me a transponder code.
> What should I squawk? The same question applies to coming into a
> radar-controlled environment from a non-radar environment like
> approaching San Juan from Bermuda. Again, what should I squawk prior
> to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
> the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
> in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
> to know from where I can find the answer.
>

If you're departing from a point in the US you should be assigned a beacon
code, even if your departure point is not served by radar. Beacon codes are
generated by ARTCC computer based on the equipment suffix you filed. If the
suffix indicates you have a transponder, a code is generated. If the suffix
indicates you do not have a transponder, or no suffix is entered at all, no
code is generated.

"Michael" > wrote...
> I am planning a trip into the Caribbean. My question is: If I have
> been given a clearance from a non-radar facility. Because the
> facility does not have radar they do not give me a transponder code.
> What should I squawk? The same question applies to coming into a
> radar-controlled environment from a non-radar environment like
> approaching San Juan from Bermuda. Again, what should I squawk prior
> to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
> the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
> in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
> to know from where I can find the answer.

In a non-radar environment over international waters, 2000 is the default squawk
for IFR traffic. I don't know if it extends to VFR as well. Generally, though,
the ATC controller who provides flight following should tell you what to squawk
when radar service is terminated. If he says "Squawk VFR," then squawk 1200.
If he doesn't give you a code, ask.

Back in the 70s when I flew VFR over Puerto Rico and the USVI, we squawked 1200
when we had no other assigned squawk.

If you're approaching Sweden, maybe 7000
(http://aip.lfv.se/7AIC-Sverige/A8-03.pdf, page 11, bottom)

Also, look at the International Flight Information Manual at
http://www2.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/index.htm. At
http://www2.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/ifim0110.htm, at the bottom, they reference
ICAO Document 7030-Flight Rules, Flight Plans, ATC Clearances, Transponder
Operation, Communications and Reporting Procedures. You might have to buy it to
read it, though ($55 at http://www.ariane-info.com/icao-e.htm).

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

> "Michael" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > I am planning a trip into the Caribbean. My question is: If I have
> > been given a clearance from a non-radar facility. Because the
> > facility does not have radar they do not give me a transponder code.
> > What should I squawk? The same question applies to coming into a
> > radar-controlled environment from a non-radar environment like
> > approaching San Juan from Bermuda. Again, what should I squawk prior
> > to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
> > the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
> > in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
> > to know from where I can find the answer.
> >
>
> If you're departing from a point in the US you should be assigned a beacon
> code, even if your departure point is not served by radar. Beacon codes are
> generated by ARTCC computer based on the equipment suffix you filed. If the
> suffix indicates you have a transponder, a code is generated. If the suffix
> indicates you do not have a transponder, or no suffix is entered at all, no
> code is generated.

And, once you depart domestic FAA control and are handed off to oceanic you are
expected to squawk 2000. That is an ICAO rule.

In article >, wrote:
> And, once you depart domestic FAA control and are handed off to oceanic you
> are expected to squawk 2000. That is an ICAO rule.

If you're out of radar coverage, why does anybody care what you squawk?

"Michael" > wrote in message
om...
> I am planning a trip into the Caribbean. My question is: If I have
> been given a clearance from a non-radar facility. Because the
> facility does not have radar they do not give me a transponder code.
> What should I squawk? The same question applies to coming into a
> radar-controlled environment from a non-radar environment like
> approaching San Juan from Bermuda. Again, what should I squawk prior
> to receiving a transponder code from San Juan? I was thinking that
> the answer would be 1200 but the AIM says that 1200 is for VFR traffic
> in the United States. Should you know the answer, I would also like
> to know from where I can find the answer.

Michael

The international rules (besides specifying the usual codes for emergency,
radio failure and unlawful interference) say you should squawk:

1) whatever ATC instructs you to squawk or failing that

2) whatever "regional air navigation agreements" prescribe or failing that

3) 2000

Virtually every state except the USA has an Aeronautical Information
Publication (AIP) in which, amongst many other useful pieces of info, the
procedures which come under the heading of "regional air navigation
agreements" are set out. AIPs have a standard format set out by ICAO, and
the Radar Services and Procedures are in section ENR 1.6. It might be worth
checking the AIPs of the states you intend to visit. Your Aeronautical
Information Service (AIS) should keep a library of foreign AIPs. Of course
since the US has a one-of-a-kind system, your AIS may do it differently but
http://www1.faa.gov/ats/ata/ata100/index.html
may be able to help.

Most likely, as Steven says, you'll get a discrete squawk even if some of
the route is non-radar.

FWIW, in many parts of the world including most of Europe, the conspicuity
squawk (what you squawk, VFR or IFR, if you're not assigned anything else)
is 7000.

HTH

Julian Scarfe

TCAS?

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, wrote:
> > And, once you depart domestic FAA control and are handed off to oceanic
you
> > are expected to squawk 2000. That is an ICAO rule.
>
> If you're out of radar coverage, why does anybody care what you squawk?

"Roy Smith" > wrote...
>
> If you're out of radar coverage, why does anybody care what you squawk?

While you may be out of range of ATC radar, "Big Brother" may be watching with
even bigger radars (e.g., Shemya)...

The answer is: "2000" -- at least for oceanic operations.

I just ran across AC 91-70B -- Oceanic Operations, dated 09/06/94, at
http://www1.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/files/advcir/AC9170B.TXT.

Chapter 2, OCEANIC OPERATIONS FOR ALL AIRCRAFT IN ALL GEOGRAPHIC AREAS, par
6.e(4) states:

(4) ICAO Documents 7030, "Regional Supplementary Procedures"
and 8168, "Aircraft Operations Volume I," state that
transponders shall be operated as follows:

(a) when the aircraft carries serviceable Mode C
equipment, the pilot shall continuously operate in
this mode, unless otherwise directed by ATC;

(b) in NAT airspace, unless otherwise directed by ATC,
pilots shall retain the previously assigned
transponder code for a period of 30 minutes after
entry into the airspace, then operate on code 2000;

(c) in oceanic airspace other than the NAT, pilots shall
operate the transponder and select modes and codes as
directed by the ATC unit with which the pilot is in
contact; or

(d) in the absence of any ATC directions, pilots shall
operate the transponder on Mode A Code 2000.


Further, in Chapter 3, par 9.g, discussing non MNPS airspace over the Atlantic:

Navigation equipment adequate for operation in accordance
with the flight plan and with ATC clearances shall be
carried. SSR transponders with Mode 3/A and C are required in
Iceland. Pilots shall operate SSR transponders continuously
on Mode A, Code 2000. Departing aircraft shall retain the
last assigned code for 30 minutes after entry into NAT
oceanic airspace unless otherwise instructed by ATC. This
procedure does not affect the use of special purpose codes
7500, 7600 or 7700 when required.


Chapter 4, par. 4.g (Northern Pacific ops):

g. Transponder Codes. When operating west of l64E, transponders
should be set to Mode A Code 2000. When east of 164E, a
discrete code may be assigned. This code should be maintained
unless otherwise advised by ATC. If no discrete code is
assigned, transponders should be set to Code 2000.


Chapter 11, GENERAL AVIATION SHORT-RANGE AIRCRAFT OCEANIC OPERATIONS, par. 2.j,
says this about transiting Iceland:

Navigation equipment adequate to navigate in accordance with
the flight plan and in accordance with ATC clearances will be
carried aboard the aircraft. Secondary surveillance radar
(SSR) transponders with Mode 3/A and C are required in
Iceland. Pilots shall operate SSR transponders continuously
on Mode A, Code 2000, except that departing aircraft shall
retain the last assigned code for 30 minutes after entry into
NAT oceanic airspace unless otherwise instructed by ATC.

"Julian Scarfe" > wrote in message
...

Hey Julian, do you like the CNX-80?

It came from your discussions of wanting a VNAV.

"Brad Z" > wrote in message
news:XkwVb.254738$na.416430@attbi_s04...
>
> TCAS?
>

How does the beacon code affect TCAS performance?

It doesn't, but if you turn the box off and squawk nothing, TCAS won't see
you. So I suppose my point is that it doesn't matter what you squawk if
radar can't see you, as long as you're squawking something.


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Brad Z" > wrote in message
> news:XkwVb.254738$na.416430@attbi_s04...
> >
> > TCAS?
> >
>
> How does the beacon code affect TCAS performance?
>
>

"Brad Z" > wrote in message
news:yIEVb.208758$nt4.986973@attbi_s51...
>
> It doesn't, but if you turn the box off and squawk nothing, TCAS
> won't see you. So I suppose my point is that it doesn't matter
> what you squawk if radar can't see you, as long as you're
> squawking something.
>

I believe that was Roy Smith's point.

Exactly...someone is usually watching somewhere regardless of where you
are.

I used to laugh in the 80's & early 90's when I was flying over Cuba on
a regular basis. Havana would always tell me that radar service was
terminated and then require verbal position reports while we all knew
they were tracking us closely on their radar. Now that things are
"friendlier" with them, we are always in radar contact....amazing....

"Radar service terminated" doesn't mean someone...somewhere...isn't
watching.

BJ

John R Weiss wrote:

>"Roy Smith" > wrote...
>
>
>>If you're out of radar coverage, why does anybody care what you squawk?
>>
>>
>
>While you may be out of range of ATC radar, "Big Brother" may be watching with
>even bigger radars (e.g., Shemya)...
>
>
>

"John R Weiss" > wrote in message
news:NEdVb.247397$na.411669@attbi_s04...
>
> Generally, though, the ATC controller who provides flight following
> should tell you what to squawk when radar service is terminated. If
> he says "Squawk VFR," then squawk 1200.
> If he doesn't give you a code, ask.
>

If he doesn't give you a code, you still squawk 1200.


>
> Back in the 70s when I flew VFR over Puerto Rico and the USVI,
> we squawked 1200 when we had no other assigned squawk.
>

Same today. In the seventies, VFR traffic at and above 10,000 MSL squawked
1400.

Roy Smith wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
> > And, once you depart domestic FAA control and are handed off to oceanic you
> > are expected to squawk 2000. That is an ICAO rule.
>
> If you're out of radar coverage, why does anybody care what you squawk?

You'll have to ask ICAO that question. It's their rule.