Hello,

I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.

Thanks,

-dr

Jep offers subscriptions, you can get government charts for
free from the AOPA or directly from the government also for
just your tax money.

http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/index.jsp
www.aopa.org
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/ifr/ifrchart



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


> wrote in message
oups.com...
| Hello,
|
| I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can
subscribe to Jepp
| or some other service and print off approach plates and
airport
| diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every
month, see
| if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems
easy, so I
| imagine its available... any links and costs would be a
great help.
|
| Thanks,
|
| -dr
|

> wrote in message oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
> or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
> diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
> if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
> imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -dr
>
www.jeppesen.com
I use Jeppview for the Apollo MX20, and I was going to put the link here,
but it is an unreasonably long and unwieldy link.
Better you should search for it, or look under "Products and Services",
and then under "Charting and Navigation Services".

In article . com>,
says...
>
>
>Hello,
>
>I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
>or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
>diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
>if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
>imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.


It's not easy at all - that's the problem. You can get all the charts you
want, current and free online from several sources - but going through
them to "see if something has changed" and printing "all" the charts you
may need for any given trip is very laborious and error prone. Just an
example, if you didn't happen to notice that the tower frequency had
changed at an airport you were not expecting to fly to anyway, when your
plans change because your intended destination is below minimums, you're
in for some embarrassment and confusion (hopefully nothing worse)because
you don't have the current info.

That's why people still pay for subscriptions, when all the
information is available for free, and still lug huge volumes along with
them - you're paying someone else to do the work (an expert no less) and
when you have to pull a plate you didn't expect to need, you are sure you
have it.

GF

Hello...

Ok, so if you can get them for free by downloading and printing them,
why do people pay for the paper plates? Or is it a convenience thing
just to have them shipped to you every cycle?

I imagine the cost would add up for Jepp plates, enroute charts, MX20
plate subcription, garmin subscription. Or perhaps there is an "all in
one" package you can order?

Thanks,

-dr

wrote:
> Hello...
>
> Ok, so if you can get them for free by downloading and printing them,
> why do people pay for the paper plates? Or is it a convenience thing
> just to have them shipped to you every cycle?

They're free to download, but using the kinds of printers most people have in
their homes attached to their PCs, they're expensive to print. OK for a one-off,
but if you plan on printing very many, the cost adds up.

Then there's the convenience of a bound volume, and the reassurance that you
have all the charts and you didn't fail to print one that you might need.

>
> I imagine the cost would add up for Jepp plates, enroute charts, MX20
> plate subcription, garmin subscription. Or perhaps there is an "all in
> one" package you can order?

I too am still looking for a cost-effective and convenient solution to use the
"free" downloads.

On 05/10/06 05:06, wrote:
> Hello...
>
> Ok, so if you can get them for free by downloading and printing them,
> why do people pay for the paper plates? Or is it a convenience thing
> just to have them shipped to you every cycle?
>
> I imagine the cost would add up for Jepp plates, enroute charts, MX20
> plate subcription, garmin subscription. Or perhaps there is an "all in
> one" package you can order?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -dr
>

My experience is in the U.S. only...

You really have a choice between Jeppesen and NACO (the U.S. Government
charts).

Jeppesen is focused on the professional pilot, so they aren't cheap.
The NACO charts are basically free. You can download and print them
yourself, or buy the booklets for just a few dollars, etc.

When I began training, I was told that Jeppesen produced better charts.
When comparing the two, I liked the structure, layout, etc. of the
Jeppesen charts, so I decided to go that route.

I have a subscription to the charts for California only, which costs
me about $140 per year.

With certain subscription levels, you can print Jeppesen charts, but
I haven't done this yet.

If you think you might like to use the Jeppesen charts, you can purchase
an expired set, just to see what the format looks like. Also, Rod Machado's
book, "The Instrument Pilot's Survival Manual", goes through the differences
in the charts, highlighting those that make the Jeppesen charts better (the
book goes through most all aspects of Instrument flight, the comparison of
the charts is only part of it).

Hope this helps,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Peter wrote:
> Dave Butler > wrote:
>
>
>>I too am still looking for a cost-effective and convenient solution to use the
>>"free" downloads.
>
>
> You can run the free charts on Oziexplorer, among other products.
>
> A tablet PC should display NACO plates OK, though perhaps not in a
> size approximating their actual paper size. Aren't there many products
> in the USA that do this?

Since I don't have any other use for a tablet PC, the cost of the PC makes it
not cost-effective for me. I can purchase a lot of NACO chart books for the
price of a PC.

On 05/10/06 01:39, Greg Farris wrote:
> In article . com>,
> says...
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
>>or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
>>diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
>>if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
>>imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.
>
>
> It's not easy at all - that's the problem. You can get all the charts you
> want, current and free online from several sources - but going through
> them to "see if something has changed" and printing "all" the charts you
> may need for any given trip is very laborious and error prone. Just an
> example, if you didn't happen to notice that the tower frequency had
> changed at an airport you were not expecting to fly to anyway, when your
> plans change because your intended destination is below minimums, you're
> in for some embarrassment and confusion (hopefully nothing worse)because
> you don't have the current info.
>
> That's why people still pay for subscriptions, when all the
> information is available for free, and still lug huge volumes along with
> them - you're paying someone else to do the work (an expert no less) and
> when you have to pull a plate you didn't expect to need, you are sure you
> have it.

You can be (reasonably) sure you have the latest published chart, but not
necessarily the latest info. Checking the NOTAMs for airports you have
no idea you'll be going to is difficult.

With the subscription you can reduce the window for potential errors, but
not remove it. After all, there can be a tower frequency change which didn't
make it into the current published charts, so even the subscription may be
out of date.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On 5/9/2006 9:21 PM, wrote the following:
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
> or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
> diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
> if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
> imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.
>

I have used a couple of software packages that help you organize and
print the plates you need:

Seattle Avionics (seattleavionics.com) had a product called
SmartPlates that was very nice. Now it is incorporated somehow in
their Voyager flight planning package. I am not clear how, as I have
SmartPlates, but not a full Voyager package, grandfathered in. The
product is a monster, based on Microsoft's ugly dot-net package. If
you like buying memory for your computer and watching hourglass
symbols you will love this app. I no longer use it.

A guy named Greg Siemon has written (singlehandedly I think) a nice
package called Aviator Trip Pack. You can look at it here:
http://www.cmensys.com The interface is a little quirky but it runs
very fast. Greg has recently added a bunch of DUAT/DUATS stuff and
flight planning features, but I have not used them.

I use Greg's package with a utility called FinePrint
(www.fineprint.com) which allows me to easily print booklets of
plates, nicely sized to half page, page numbered, date stamped for the
printing date, and two sided. This makes life very easy as I just
print a new booklet every time I need one.

For backup, I carry paper plates from Air Chart Systems. Their system
is much cheaper than an NACO subscription and is entirely adequate as
a backup.

Finally, take a look at ChartCase Pro
(http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=HomeEFB) if you want to
see the extreme of what can be done with the NACO plates, sectionals,
low and high altitude charts. Those guys have them all georeferenced
and set up for use on tablet computers with GPS receivers. It's
really slick. (Truth in Advertising: I was a beta tester for them.)

HTH

Peter wrote:

> Yes, but you (or somebody) wrote above
>
> "I too am still looking for a cost-effective and convenient solution
> to use the "free" downloads."
>
> How else are you going to use downloaded plates? Either print them, or
> display them on something.

That's what I wrote. What don't you understand?

Dave

Those Flightprep folks certainly seem to have a good system with the
GPS, WX, and Plates complete with the computer. Just plug it in and
go. HOw was your experience with this system. Does the computer run
windows? Can i use it for something other than avaition stuff (ie:
play a DVD)?

-dr

Some years ago, the Gov charts began copying the briefing strip from
Jepp. Closed the gap a bit I hear. I've never used Jepp.

Regarding printing - I hear Staples has a low cost, high speed laser
sale for $50 after rebate. Cheaper than the cartdridge. Would make
printing easier... but there's a lot to be said for having the whole
bound current volume in the bag. Don't know about you but when
traveling, I often change destinations due to weather/time/mood. Hate
to have my decisions influenced by what charts I have on board.

Mark Hansen wrote:

> When I began training, I was told that Jeppesen produced better charts.
> When comparing the two, I liked the structure, layout, etc. of the
> Jeppesen charts, so I decided to go that route.
>
> I have a subscription to the charts for California only, which costs
> me about $140 per year.
>
> With certain subscription levels, you can print Jeppesen charts, but
> I haven't done this yet.
>
> If you think you might like to use the Jeppesen charts, you can purchase
> an expired set, just to see what the format looks like. Also, Rod Machado's
> book, "The Instrument Pilot's Survival Manual", goes through the differences
> in the charts, highlighting those that make the Jeppesen charts better (the
> book goes through most all aspects of Instrument flight, the comparison of
> the charts is only part of it).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>

Go to MyAirplane.com They have all the NACO plates online for free...
in vector PDF format. They also sell DVDs of the charts for a decent
price.

In article >,
says...

>
>However in the USA you have the free plates, which unlike the European
>ones are quite usable.
>

And what do you find "unuseable" about the European online plates?
Perhaps you are referring to a specific country. Previous threads here
have seemed to indicate that there are still significant differences
in the quality and availability of online services in different European
countries. The online charts available for free in France are,
if anything, better than those available in the US.

GF

In article >,
says...

>We do have free plates in Europe too, for the major countries, but
>they are all A4 PDFs and not only are they unreadable if reduced to A5
>(the normal plate size) but this appears to be deliberate, to protect
>the revenue of firms like Jepp....


Interesting - In France, in the past year the official government
publications (for paid subscribers) for instrument plates has moved from
A5 to A4 (half-size to full-size 8.5X11 for those Americans unfamiliar
with European sheet sizes). I assume this was done in full coordination
with aircraft manufacturers, who agreed to increase cockpit size on new
models, and retrofit all older planes with twice as much knee space for
the new charts.
;-)

GF

In article >,
says...
>
>
>
> Peter > wrote:
>
>>If they are to be displayed on any electronic device, the absolute
>>minimum resolution is 768x1024 (portrait) just to be able to read the
>>small text.
>

I love the Jepp advertisement - says something like "New Technology -
Same Approach" and it shows a paper approach plate and a tablet display
of the same plate. The problem is the paper one looks sharp and detailed,
while the tablet display, although readable, appears pixelated and grainy
by comparison!

GF

Greg Farris > wrote:

> I love the Jepp advertisement - says something like "New Technology -
> Same Approach" and it shows a paper approach plate and a tablet display
> of the same plate. The problem is the paper one looks sharp and detailed,
> while the tablet display, although readable, appears pixelated and grainy
> by comparison!

This is a real technology problem. For all the wonderful advances in
display technology, we're still nowhere near the resolution available using
ink on paper. A high quality printing press on good paper can do 1000
lines per inch. The best LCD displays today are only about 100 dpi.

I also haven't yet seen an LCD panel that I can fold up so just the right
portion is visible and scrunch it in the corner of the windshield.

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> Roy Smith > wrote:
>
>>This is a real technology problem. For all the wonderful advances in
>>display technology, we're still nowhere near the resolution available
>>using
>>ink on paper. A high quality printing press on good paper can do 1000
>>lines per inch. The best LCD displays today are only about 100 dpi.
>
> You could do it with say a 1200x1600 display, but for marketing
> reasons nobody is going to make a 1200x1600 tablet with a screen size
> that is desirable for cockpit use, probably 8" diagonal.

http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le.asp (1600)
....
> 800x600 tablets have been around for ages. The old Fujitsu LTP600 is
> popular with a number of pilots I know, for JV.

"Peter" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Whereas the Jepp plates are stored as image files, and these were
> obviously designed for 800x600; the format is proprietary but it is
> probably something like GIF (lossless compression suited well to line
> drawings) and they very possibly store 2 or 3 images of the plate to
> suit the different views which JV can offer - whole page, page width,
> I don't have JV handy. It's efficient; all the plates for all airports
> in the world fit in 500MB or so on one CD. Every JV3 CD has all this
> on it; you just need to coverage code to unlock the stuff you have
> paid for :)
>
>
More specifically, Jepp plates are vector graphics, not raster images.
They are rendered into a raster image only at time of display,
so lines and edges won't appear fuzzy at high zoom levels.
That means each displayable image is constructed to the full resolution
of your display device only *after* you select a subsection of the chart,
such as the chart header, or the profile view, etc. for display.
That uses a little extra real-time image-processing computation,
but the result is an immensely better image than PDFs give us.

John R. Copeland > wrote:
>More specifically, Jepp plates are vector graphics, not raster images.
>They are rendered into a raster image only at time of display,
>so lines and edges won't appear fuzzy at high zoom levels.
>That means each displayable image is constructed to the full resolution
>of your display device only *after* you select a subsection of the chart,
>such as the chart header, or the profile view, etc. for display.
>That uses a little extra real-time image-processing computation,
>but the result is an immensely better image than PDFs give us.

PDF is inherently vector graphics too (they *can* contain raster
scanned images, but the approach plates are vector). I just opened up
the HPN ILS-16 plate in Adobe Reader and zoomed in to 6400%. No
jaggies.

PDF is pretty much just PostScript with a few minor restrictions and
packaged up nicely in a standard file format. If you zoom in to about
800% on some of the standard symbols (vortac, displaced threshold) on
the charts, you can even see some classic PostScript coding errors
where they don't handle mitre clipping properly at the corners of
polygons. PostScript has built-in mechanisms to handle these (ahem)
corner cases, but whoever did coded up the postscript driver didn't do
it right.

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message ...
> John R. Copeland > wrote:
>>
>>That uses a little extra real-time image-processing computation,
>>but the result is an immensely better image than PDFs give us.
>
> PDF is inherently vector graphics too (they *can* contain raster
> scanned images, but the approach plates are vector). I just opened up
> the HPN ILS-16 plate in Adobe Reader and zoomed in to 6400%. No
> jaggies.
>
>
Thanks, Roy. I didn't really know how PDFs worked internally.
My subjective impression has always been that PDFs are a little fuzzy
in ALL sizes.
PDFs on my 640x480 PDA are especially objectionable.
Probably the Adobe Reader software in my PDA is incompetent.
It may have been designed for QVGA resolution instead of VGA.

I do a lot of work with AutoCad, which of course is a vector graphic
application, and you can zoom to your heart's content. When I need to
deliver content to those who cannot read AutoCad files, I often print to
PDF, but the limitations are severe - to the point of rendering the
content unreadable - that is unreadable to a sufficient and necessary
level of detail.

All PDF's are not created equal either.
Download some charts from Airnav and the same charts from AOPA, and you
will have two different file sizes, and a very notable difference in
resolution (the Airnav being far better).

GF

On 5/10/2006 2:51 PM, wrote the following:
> Those Flightprep folks certainly seem to have a good system with the
> GPS, WX, and Plates complete with the computer. Just plug it in and
> go.

Yes. When start it up it even calls and gets all the METARs (assuming
you have an open internet connection) and displays them as color coded
dots on the map so you can see current conditions on your route of
flight as you plan it. Its birth was as a DUATS interface, so it is
very strong on accessing internet resources as you do your planning.

HOw was your experience with this system.

It is very solid in terms of crashes. IMHO there is still some
interface tuning needed in the in-flight readability area but I think
it's at the head of the class already with big easy-to-hit buttons and
the very slick architecture of their page system. I do not have the
XM weather so can't comment on that specifically.

It is great fun to watch your little airplane on an approach plate or
a runway diagram. It also records the flight by default, so you can
look at practice approaches, holds, etc. after the fact and see how
you did.

> Does the computer run
> windows? Can i use it for something other than aviation stuff (ie:
> play a DVD)?

Yes. Yes. I am using an HP TC1100. The display is marginal in
bright light but that is not the fault of the application. The Motion
Computing boxes with the View Anywhere display are the hot ticket.
FlightPrep sells the LS800, which is a better size too. The TC1100 is
a tad big. I am waiting for the 1024 x 768 version of the LS800 and
then I will snap for it together with two docks. One for home and one
for our lake place, where I have full sized monitors and keyboards
plus other hardware connected. It will then be my only computer, used
for everything, just as the TC1100 is now.

HTH

In a previous article, "John R. Copeland" > said:
>"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
>> PDF is inherently vector graphics too (they *can* contain raster
>> scanned images, but the approach plates are vector). I just opened up
>> the HPN ILS-16 plate in Adobe Reader and zoomed in to 6400%. No
>> jaggies.
>Thanks, Roy. I didn't really know how PDFs worked internally.
>My subjective impression has always been that PDFs are a little fuzzy
>in ALL sizes.

Depends where you get the plates from. For a long time, various web sites
had approach plates that they'd scanned themselves, where the PDF
contained a raster image. But then NACO released their own PDFs, where
the plates are in vector format and eminently scalable.

I believe some web sites are still doing the scanned raster ones.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The Write Many, Read Never drive. For those people that don't know
their system has a /dev/null already.
-- Rik Steenwinkel, singing the praises of 8mm Exabytes

Peter > wrote:
> I am amazed Adobe don't do the corners right, given they invented and
> specified the format. They should have *the* definitive rasteriser for
> it.

What makes you think Adobe did anything wrong? I think whoever wrote the
postscript driver for the NOS/FAA/whatever folks didn't generate the
correct postscript. Looks like they neglected to do a "closepath" at the
appropriate places.

In article >,
Greg Farris > wrote:

> I do a lot of work with AutoCad, which of course is a vector graphic
> application, and you can zoom to your heart's content. When I need to
> deliver content to those who cannot read AutoCad files, I often print to
> PDF, but the limitations are severe - to the point of rendering the
> content unreadable - that is unreadable to a sufficient and necessary
> level of detail.

If the PDF files are unreadable, then I'd say AutoCad isn't very smart
about how it generates PDFs. Or, more likely, it depends on some default
system-supplied print driver to generate them, and that does a bad job.

Done properly, PDF files should be just as zoomable as the AutoCad
originals.

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> Depends where you get the plates from. For a long time, various web sites
> had approach plates that they'd scanned themselves, where the PDF
> contained a raster image. But then NACO released their own PDFs, where
> the plates are in vector format and eminently scalable.

Right, the scanned ones were horrible. Anybody who's still scanning
printed plates just doesn't get it. And anybody who's still using scanned
plates doesn't get it either.

One can abuse PDF just like one can abuse anything.

In article >,
says...

>If the PDF files are unreadable, then I'd say AutoCad isn't very smart
>about how it generates PDFs. Or, more likely, it depends on some default
>system-supplied print driver to generate them, and that does a bad job.
>


You're probably right about that - It's not AutoCad that does that, it's
just printed using Adobe's Acrobat Distiller. I'd pay to have a PDF format I
could print to with even 1/10 the zoomability of AutoCad.

In article >,
says...

>
>Done properly, PDF files should be just as zoomable as the AutoCad
>originals.

What happens when you create a pdf from an AutoCad drawing, using Adobe's
"distiller" is not the same as the scanned raster images we're talking about
- it's more that line thicknesses do not scale correctly with your zoom
factor. If you zoom 1000% on your AutoCad drawing, simple lines are still one
pixel in width. You can see all the detail you want. If you create a pdf from
the same drawing, then zoom 1000%, you do not have a line thickness of 1000
pixels (fortunately) but it will be much more than one pixel - say 10 or
so. This puts real limits on the useful zoomability.

GF

Greg Farris > wrote:
> >Done properly, PDF files should be just as zoomable as the AutoCad
> >originals.
>
> What happens when you create a pdf from an AutoCad drawing, using Adobe's
> "distiller" is not the same as the scanned raster images we're talking about
> - it's more that line thicknesses do not scale correctly with your zoom
> factor. If you zoom 1000% on your AutoCad drawing, simple lines are still one
> pixel in width. You can see all the detail you want.

Ah, now I understand what you're getting at. The "zoom" feature in AutoCad
is not a photographic/geometric zoom, it's a scale change. It's like
looking at a terminal chart, a sectional, and a WAC of the same area. Some
things have been scaled (i.e. the distance between geographic features),
and some have not (the size of a VOR compass rose).

That's a much higher level concept than raster vs. vector graphics. In
AutoCad, the entire vector graphics representation is regenerated from
AutoCad's internal object model each time you change the scale.

Peter wrote:
> Mark Hansen > wrote:
>

>
> In Europe, Jepp have to obtain the AIP (in the USA this is the airport
> facility directory, I think) for each country, and pick the stuff out
> of there, carefully checking if anything has changed since last time.

Jepp uses the AIP for most countries, not just Europe. For many
countries the only source for an instrument approach procedure is a
graphical presentation (in chart form) in the AIP.

In the United States, Jeppesen uses an FAA electronic rendition of the
8260 series forms, plus they obtain non-regulatory airport information
from several other sources (such as frequncies, identifiers, runway
lengths, etc.)

Maule Driver wrote:

> Some years ago, the Gov charts began copying the briefing strip from
> Jepp. Closed the gap a bit I hear. I've never used Jepp.

Jeppesen did not originate the briefing strip. It was a recommendation
of the Volpe resarach organization within the DOT:

http://www.volpe.dot.gov/

Roy Smith wrote:

> Greg Farris > wrote:
>
>
>>I love the Jepp advertisement - says something like "New Technology -
>>Same Approach" and it shows a paper approach plate and a tablet display
>>of the same plate. The problem is the paper one looks sharp and detailed,
>>while the tablet display, although readable, appears pixelated and grainy
>>by comparison!
>
>
> This is a real technology problem. For all the wonderful advances in
> display technology, we're still nowhere near the resolution available using
> ink on paper. A high quality printing press on good paper can do 1000
> lines per inch. The best LCD displays today are only about 100 dpi.

I recently replaced my old monochrome laser printer with a good color
laser printer. I use a bright, multipurpose paper recommended by HP.
The Jepp charts are awesome, and the paper is good enough I can print
charts on both sides, on 8.5 x 11 paper.

Trouble is, it is still a reflected light image. The lighting gets bad,
and the chart is difficult to read. Not so with electronic charts.

I don't believe your statement about electronic displays being limited
to 100 dpi is correct. The Jeppesen charts are in vector graphics
format and rescale to fit the "zoom."

In the Part 25 cockpit displays I have seen that are certified, the Jepp
charts are far more flexible and readable under all conditions than my
high-end printouts. And, they are all there all the time.

For flying a Cessna 182 though, my printouts are a quantum leap over
Jepp's paper I used a few years ago.

Roy Smith wrote:

> John R. Copeland > wrote:
>
>>More specifically, Jepp plates are vector graphics, not raster images.
>>They are rendered into a raster image only at time of display,
>>so lines and edges won't appear fuzzy at high zoom levels.
>>That means each displayable image is constructed to the full resolution
>>of your display device only *after* you select a subsection of the chart,
>>such as the chart header, or the profile view, etc. for display.
>>That uses a little extra real-time image-processing computation,
>>but the result is an immensely better image than PDFs give us.
>
>
> PDF is inherently vector graphics too (they *can* contain raster
> scanned images, but the approach plates are vector). I just opened up
> the HPN ILS-16 plate in Adobe Reader and zoomed in to 6400%. No
> jaggies.
>
> PDF is pretty much just PostScript with a few minor restrictions and
> packaged up nicely in a standard file format. If you zoom in to about
> 800% on some of the standard symbols (vortac, displaced threshold) on
> the charts, you can even see some classic PostScript coding errors
> where they don't handle mitre clipping properly at the corners of
> polygons. PostScript has built-in mechanisms to handle these (ahem)
> corner cases, but whoever did coded up the postscript driver didn't do
> it right.
>
>
Trouble is you can't get vector-graphic PDF files of Jeppesen charts.

Roy Smith wrote:


> Right, the scanned ones were horrible. Anybody who's still scanning
> printed plates just doesn't get it. And anybody who's still using scanned
> plates doesn't get it either.
>
> One can abuse PDF just like one can abuse anything.

Those scans were terrible. I occasionally convert Jepp charts into
bitmaps then assemble them into a PDF. They are awesome and appear to
be vector graphics until you zoom in really close. But, each chart is
800 to 1 meg.

Peter wrote:

> (Roy Smith) wrote
>
>
>>you can even see some classic PostScript coding errors
>>where they don't handle mitre clipping properly at the corners of
>>polygons. PostScript has built-in mechanisms to handle these (ahem)
>>corner cases, but whoever did coded up the postscript driver didn't do
>>it right.
>
>
> In the 1980s I ran a project (in my then own business) to develop a
> complete postscript rasteriser. It was big money in those days, for
> printing etc.
>
> I am amazed Adobe don't do the corners right, given they invented and
> specified the format. They should have *the* definitive rasteriser for
> it.
>
> What you say about JV makes sense... vector graphics. Very compact.
>
> I wonder if anybody has cracked their coverage codes :)

No one at Jepp things so.

Mark Hansen wrote:

> On 05/10/06 01:39, Greg Farris wrote:
>
>
> With the subscription you can reduce the window for potential errors, but
> not remove it. After all, there can be a tower frequency change which didn't
> make it into the current published charts, so even the subscription may be
> out of date.
>
>
NACO will continue to print an incorrect chart again and again when a
temporary FDC NOTAM is in effect for the chart.

Jepp may or may not, depending on a judgment call at Jeppesen about the
probable duration of the FDC NOTAM.

Jeppesen got burned bad a few years ago so they will never print a
change in a missed approach procedure that is issued by a temporary FDC
NOTAM.

Permanent FDC NOTAMs are a different matter. Both NACO and Jeppesen
will always chart those, i.e. "amendment 2 changed to 2A."

> wrote in message
oups.com
>
> I'm new to this IFR stuff and I'm wondering if I can subscribe to Jepp
> or some other service and print off approach plates and airport
> diagrams at my liesure? Ideally log into a web site every month, see
> if the plate changed, and if so, re-print it. Seems easy, so I
> imagine its available... any links and costs would be a great help.

As others have mentioned, you can print NACO charts directly from the Fed.
Another option I use is Sporty's Chart Viewer.

http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm

This runs me about $11/mo and gives me every approach in the US on a single
DVD. The charts look great on my Gateway CX200 Tablet, but I can obviously
print as many as I want. For a typical flight, I'll print the airport
diagrams, departures, arrivals and approaches I expect to use and the rest
are readily available on the Tablet's hard drive (or disc drive, if you're
so inclined).

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/TknoFlyer
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