So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

No where does it say WHERE they must be recorded. I enter them in the
"remarks" column of my pilot's logbook.

Rip

Ross Oliver wrote:
> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."
>
> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> maintenance records?
>
>
> Happy landings,
> Ross Oliver

"Ross Oliver" wrote:
>
> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."

FAA imposes on itself a time limit for initiating investigations,
something like only 6 months. No need to be concerned about a flight
2 years ago.

Fred F.

In article >,
(Ross Oliver) wrote:

> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."
>
> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> maintenance records?
>
>
> Happy landings,
> Ross Oliver

The only time I could ever imagine somebody looking at your VOR check
log is after an accident. I also can't imagine any value in saving VOR
check records any older than the most recent one.

FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.


On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:52:48 GMT, rip >
wrote:

>No where does it say WHERE they must be recorded. I enter them in the
>"remarks" column of my pilot's logbook.
>
>Rip
>
>Ross Oliver wrote:
>> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
>> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
>> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
>> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
>> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
>> that flight."
>>
>> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
>> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
>> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
>> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
>> maintenance records?
>>
>>
>> Happy landings,
>> Ross Oliver

Ross Oliver wrote:

> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."
>
> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> maintenance records?
>
> Happy landings,
> Ross Oliver

What everyone says is true, from 6 months for investigations, to 1 year
for maintenace inspections, to "until the next time."

If you are the kind of guy who likes to cover all the bases, keep them
for 1 year. Beyond that you have zero exposure. And, they can be kept
anywhere although the most current one is best kept in the aircraft in
the event of a ramp check. It can, however, be written on a cocktail
napkin. ;-)

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
Oliver) wrote:

>
>So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
>instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
>should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
>retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
>IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
>that flight."

You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
Them you'll always have them.

Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
only need a current check if flying IFR.

I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
just make sure they are current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
>the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
>I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
>somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
>maintenance records?
>
>
>Happy landings,
>Ross Oliver

I check mine before each flight provided there is a ground check
available, and then I just write it on my kneeboard with the required
date, type of test etc. That way it is always current (and if I am
somewhere I can't check it usually have a few months of old papers on
the knee board anyway), and I know immediately if it is misbehaving.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message =
...
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
> Oliver) wrote:
>=20
> >
> >So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> >instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> >should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> >retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> >IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> >that flight."
>=20
> You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
> not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
> Them you'll always have them. =20
>=20
> Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
> the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
> if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
> only need a current check if flying IFR.
>=20
> I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
> just make sure they are current.
>=20
> Roger Halstead=20
>=20
> >
> >This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> >the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> >I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> >somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> >maintenance records?
> >
> >Happy landings,
> >Ross Oliver
>=20
There's no valid argument *against* keeping the VOR checks in your
pilot logbook, but I just feel my personal logbook is an inappropriate
place to keep records belonging to the airplane.

FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
in my supplemental flight manual.
That strikes me as a much more convenient approach to record keeping.
I expect to see that idea used more widely, if the requirement persists.
I personally feel the VOR check is a kind of dinosaur-like requirement.
---JRC---

> FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
> the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
> considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
> to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
> the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.

This is the first time I've heard anyone claim that the VOR check is
considered maintenance. Do you have a reference for this interpretation?

If a VOR check is considered maintenance, then we're in trouble (except for
the pilots who also have an A&P), because VOR check is not on the list of
preventive maintenance items given in Part 43, Appendix A. So if it's
considered maintenance, but not preventive maintenance, most pilots would not
be authorized to perform it.

There are several other factors that indicate a VOR check is not maintenance:

- FAR 91.171(a)(2) uses the word "checked," not "inspected," for the 30-day
checks we're discussing here.

- FAR 1 defines maintenance to include "inspections", but not "checks".

- FAR 91.171(d) specifies record-keeping requirements that are different from
those in 91.417 and 43.9 (no certificate number, for example). If the VOR
check is an inspection, then you'd also have to comply with 43.11 and include
aircraft total time in service, and the statement "I certify that this
aircraft has been inspected ..."

It seems clear to me that the VOR check is not maintenance, and thus not
subject to the requirements of 91.417.

Barry

If there are more than one owner of the aircraft, you need to keep it
in a place accessable by all partners. We have a small spiral notebook
we keep in the glove compartment that we log VOR checks in.







On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:11:15 GMT, "John R. Copeland"
> wrote:

>
>"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message ...
>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
>> Oliver) wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
>> >instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
>> >should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
>> >retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
>> >IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
>> >that flight."
>>
>> You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
>> not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
>> Them you'll always have them.
>>
>> Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
>> the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
>> if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
>> only need a current check if flying IFR.
>>
>> I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
>> just make sure they are current.
>>
>> Roger Halstead
>>
>> >
>> >This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
>> >the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
>> >I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
>> >somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
>> >maintenance records?
>> >
>> >Happy landings,
>> >Ross Oliver
>>
>There's no valid argument *against* keeping the VOR checks in your
>pilot logbook, but I just feel my personal logbook is an inappropriate
>place to keep records belonging to the airplane.
>
>FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
>both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
>I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
>in my supplemental flight manual.
>That strikes me as a much more convenient approach to record keeping.
>I expect to see that idea used more widely, if the requirement persists.
>I personally feel the VOR check is a kind of dinosaur-like requirement.
>---JRC---

I operated a certificated avionics repair station for years. When we
performed a VOR calibration, at the owners request, which qualifies
for the 30 day check, it was a maintenance function and required the
417 documentation. FAR 91.171 (a) (1) is the reference. Both the
words maintained and inspect are used there. I said that it is a
maintenance record, not maintenance, as far as a pilot performed
function. My comment only referred to the fact that it does not have
to be in the aircraft. There are actually 6 ways to perform the
"check", 5 of which can be done by the pilot.


On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:40:07 -0500, "Barry" > wrote:

>> FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
>> the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
>> considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
>> to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
>> the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.
>
>This is the first time I've heard anyone claim that the VOR check is
>considered maintenance. Do you have a reference for this interpretation?
>
>If a VOR check is considered maintenance, then we're in trouble (except for
>the pilots who also have an A&P), because VOR check is not on the list of
>preventive maintenance items given in Part 43, Appendix A. So if it's
>considered maintenance, but not preventive maintenance, most pilots would not
>be authorized to perform it.
>
>There are several other factors that indicate a VOR check is not maintenance:
>
>- FAR 91.171(a)(2) uses the word "checked," not "inspected," for the 30-day
>checks we're discussing here.
>
>- FAR 1 defines maintenance to include "inspections", but not "checks".
>
>- FAR 91.171(d) specifies record-keeping requirements that are different from
>those in 91.417 and 43.9 (no certificate number, for example). If the VOR
>check is an inspection, then you'd also have to comply with 43.11 and include
>aircraft total time in service, and the statement "I certify that this
>aircraft has been inspected ..."
>
>It seems clear to me that the VOR check is not maintenance, and thus not
>subject to the requirements of 91.417.
>
>Barry
>
>

I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
for a while.


"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
>
> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."
>
> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> maintenance records?
>
>
> Happy landings,
> Ross Oliver

John R. Copeland > wrote:
>FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
>both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
>I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
>in my supplemental flight manual.


One of the elements required by the FARs is the signature of the person
who performed the check. How do you satisfy this requirement?

"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message =
...
> John R. Copeland > wrote:
> >FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
> >both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
> >I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to =
keep
> >in my supplemental flight manual.
>=20
>=20
> One of the elements required by the FARs is the signature of the =
person
> who performed the check. How do you satisfy this requirement?
>=20

By entering my name in the "Name" data fields of the records.

FAR 91.171 requires the person making the operational check
to "sign the aircraft log or other record."
Evidently, the Apollo people feel that the data-entry of a name
is satisfactory in lieu of a longhand script signature.
---JRC---

I keep a hardbound log book (airframe) in the cockpit just for recording the
day's flight info. Before take off I write down:
Date Departing Airport Oil Level VOR checks

Makes for a nice catelogue of flights, a great way to watch oil consumption
and a handy place to put VOR checks.


"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
>
> So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> that flight."
>
> This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> maintenance records?
>
>
> Happy landings,
> Ross Oliver

What trend do you see? I've never had a VOR not check within specs but the
only trend I would care about is the first time it doesn't. To the avionics
shop we go...

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
> have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
> quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
> for a while.
>
>
> "Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> > instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> > should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> > retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> > IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> > that flight."
> >
> > This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> > the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> > I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> > somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> > maintenance records?
> >
> >
> > Happy landings,
> > Ross Oliver
>
>

I can't think of a reason to keep them after they have been superceded. A
post-it note that you throw away with each new check, or fill up with 3-4
checks then start a new one, would be perfectly adequate. The record
requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.

"Otis Winslow" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have pages in a notebook in the plane for VOR checks. That way I
> have a record of how the VOR has been over a period of time. There's
> quite a few lines on each page .. no not much space to keep them
> for a while.
>
>
> "Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
> > instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
> > should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
> > retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
> > IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
> > that flight."
> >
> > This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
> > the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
> > I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
> > somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
> > maintenance records?
> >
> >
> > Happy landings,
> > Ross Oliver
>
>

>>
The record
requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.
<<

How so? (I take it "anacrhonism" here means something that once was valid or
useful, and no longer is, but still must be done)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within a couple
of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of that, seems
a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure your buggy whip is in good
condition every 30 days.

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...
> >>
> The record
> requirement for VOR checks is kind of an anachronism, really.
> <<
>
> How so? (I take it "anacrhonism" here means something that once was valid
or
> useful, and no longer is, but still must be done)
>
> Jose
>
> --
> (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

>>
Well, since practically everybody uses GPS
<<

Uh... no.

>>
and radar coverage is
essentially nationwide now,
<<

Uh... no.

>>
making sure your VOR is accurate within a couple
of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of that, seems
a bit out of date.
<<

Oh. I thought you meant just the recordkeeping part. If you have and use a
VOR IFR it better be accurate.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Dan Thompson" > wrote in
. com:

> Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
> essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within a
> couple of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of
> that, seems a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure your buggy
> whip is in good condition every 30 days.
>

Radar coverage does not extend nationwide at low altitudes. In fact I would
bet that 99% of the country does not have radar coverage below 1000' AGL.
This is where VOR accuracy really matters anyway.

Well for me, VOR is backup no. 2 behind radar vectors/ handheld GPS, if my
primary GPS goes out. I have been pretty good about logging VOR checks, but
it is starting to seem a little silly since I haven't used a VOR for IFR nav
in years.
"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...
> >>
> Well, since practically everybody uses GPS
> <<
>
> Uh... no.
>
> >>
> and radar coverage is
> essentially nationwide now,
> <<
>
> Uh... no.
>
> >>
> making sure your VOR is accurate within a couple
> of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of that,
seems
> a bit out of date.
> <<
>
> Oh. I thought you meant just the recordkeeping part. If you have and use
a
> VOR IFR it better be accurate.
>
> Jose
>
>
>
> --
> (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

I bet you are right. Since it is not possible to fly under IFR below 1000
AGL, except taking off or on an approach, what difference does that make?

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> "Dan Thompson" > wrote in
> . com:
>
> > Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
> > essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within a
> > couple of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed record of
> > that, seems a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure your buggy
> > whip is in good condition every 30 days.
> >
>
> Radar coverage does not extend nationwide at low altitudes. In fact I
would
> bet that 99% of the country does not have radar coverage below 1000' AGL.
> This is where VOR accuracy really matters anyway.
>

An approach is where a VOR accuracy really matters. If you are off by a
few degrees during enroute, the worst that can happen is an annoyed
controller. During approach the outcome may be a lot worse. Would you fly
a VOR approach to minimum if you are not sure if the VOR has not been
checked?




"Dan Thompson" > wrote in
m:

> I bet you are right. Since it is not possible to fly under IFR below
> 1000 AGL, except taking off or on an approach, what difference does
> that make?
>
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> . 158...
>> "Dan Thompson" > wrote in
>> . com:
>>
>> > Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
>> > essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within
>> > a couple of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed
>> > record of that, seems a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure
>> > your buggy whip is in good condition every 30 days.
>> >
>>
>> Radar coverage does not extend nationwide at low altitudes. In fact I
> would
>> bet that 99% of the country does not have radar coverage below 1000'
>> AGL. This is where VOR accuracy really matters anyway.
>>
>
>

Yeah, but only in the case of the primary GPS being failed, and then I would
be backing it up off of the handheld GPS and the other VOR nav as well. In
case of a discrepancy between the VOR navs, the handheld GPS would be the
tie breaker. Also if I had time I might also break out my handheld COM
radio which also has a VOR function. Frankly, if I was down to relying on
my 2nd and 3rd layer of backups, I would probably conclude this was just a
really bad day and divert to an ILS airport.

I'm not planning to quit doing the 30 day checks, I'm just thinking this is
kind of old-fashioned and more rigorous than some other more likely failure
modes nowadays that we aren't required to be as careful about.

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> An approach is where a VOR accuracy really matters. If you are off by a
> few degrees during enroute, the worst that can happen is an annoyed
> controller. During approach the outcome may be a lot worse. Would you fly
> a VOR approach to minimum if you are not sure if the VOR has not been
> checked?
>
>
>
>
> "Dan Thompson" > wrote in
> m:
>
> > I bet you are right. Since it is not possible to fly under IFR below
> > 1000 AGL, except taking off or on an approach, what difference does
> > that make?
> >
> > "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> > . 158...
> >> "Dan Thompson" > wrote in
> >> . com:
> >>
> >> > Well, since practically everybody uses GPS, and radar coverage is
> >> > essentially nationwide now, making sure your VOR is accurate within
> >> > a couple of degrees every 30 days, and also keeping a detailed
> >> > record of that, seems a bit out of date. Kind of like making sure
> >> > your buggy whip is in good condition every 30 days.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Radar coverage does not extend nationwide at low altitudes. In fact I
> > would
> >> bet that 99% of the country does not have radar coverage below 1000'
> >> AGL. This is where VOR accuracy really matters anyway.
> >>
> >
> >
>

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:06:08 GMT, "Dan Thompson" >
wrote:

>Well for me, VOR is backup no. 2 behind radar vectors/ handheld GPS, if my
>primary GPS goes out. I have been pretty good about logging VOR checks, but
>it is starting to seem a little silly since I haven't used a VOR for IFR nav
>in years.

Then you haven't had to do a VOR check in years either.

It only has to have a current check if you are using it.
Far as that goes, (as I understand) you can take off in VFR
conditions, do the check and file.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

<snip>

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:58:11 GMT, "John R. Copeland"
> wrote:

>
>"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message ...
>> John R. Copeland > wrote:
>> >FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
>> >both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
>> >I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
>> >in my supplemental flight manual.
>>
>>
>> One of the elements required by the FARs is the signature of the person
>> who performed the check. How do you satisfy this requirement?
>>
>
>By entering my name in the "Name" data fields of the records.
Typing, or entering name is not the same as a signature.

>
>FAR 91.171 requires the person making the operational check
>to "sign the aircraft log or other record."

"Generally" when something says "Signature" it really means signature.
IE. Name, or printed name is not acceptable. Maybe they really don't
mean signature?

Many a form has a place for your name with a separate line for
signature directly underneath.

>Evidently, the Apollo people feel that the data-entry of a name
>is satisfactory in lieu of a longhand script signature.

I wonder what the FAA stance is on this? From my experience when a
government agency wants a signature they will not accept a printed or
typed name. Maybe this is one of those "don't ask" items<:-))

If they really do accept the entry it kinda opens a whole new can of
worms. I'm not arguing against it as I think entering you name in
the database is a good idea, but then again any one who has access to
the unit can enter your name.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>---JRC---
>