I flew from Columbus OH to Detroit MI and back last night.
Detroit has Class B Airspace surrounding Wayne International, and I was
going to Oakland Troy (7D2) on the north side.
The aircraft and equipment was a C182/G.
There are no airways direct from the Columbus area, so I filed direct,
planning on going up the east side of the CBAS.
Just northwest of Mansfield (KMFD), Toledo Approach gave me a reroute;
direct KTOL, then heading 360, then radar vectors.
The frequency wasn't busy so I inquired about the reroute and was told
that Detroit Approach usually vectors all their arrivals into a fix on
the west side for all the satelite airports.
I mentioned that I would have preferred to go up the east side.
He came back and said that that was possible if I wanted to.
Given that I was now more west than east, I elected to stay the course.
It added 15-20 minutes to my flight.

When I called FSS for a return briefing I asked if they knew of any
preferred routing that DET APP would use for my flight back to Columbus.
The briefer was not aware of any but suggested direct Windsor VOR (YQG)
direct OSU. So that's what I filed.
I couldn't pick up my clearance using the published RCO frequency, so I
departed and contacted approach.
I was given a series of heading to fly which took me out around and
outside the CBAS. Then I was given a reroute that was interesting, to
say the least. The first leg of the reroute was to an intersection 40
miles south of DET.
The haze was heavy so there was no horizon (one of those VFR, but IFR
conditions). I had had an pitch trim fault with the autopilot on the
trip up, so I hadn't yet turned it on to see if it had reset.
I was hand flying without a clue where to look on the chart for the
intersection, I told the controller that and we settled on a heading.
Once I got leveled off and on heading, I went heads down and searched
the chart for the intersection, following the clue the controller had
given me.
Found it, plugged it into the GPS and was enjoying the smooth air.
Turned the AP on and everything worked properly. Life is good!
The controller queries me about a direct heading to my destination. He
says he will see if he can get me direct once I give him a heading.
I tell him to standby while I plug it into the handheld GPS, tell him
190 and he clears me direct.

I wish there were some general guidelines published for fixes to file
into for CBAS satellite airports when filing an area navigation/direct
flight plan. I know the AF/D has some, but they are usually airway routings.
Does anyone know of any sources?

In article >,
john smith > wrote:


> I wish there were some general guidelines published for fixes to file
> into for CBAS satellite airports when filing an area navigation/direct
> flight plan. I know the AF/D has some, but they are usually airway routings.
> Does anyone know of any sources?

I don't know how complete it is, but there is a database you can access
at

http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Departure_Routes/NFDC_Preferred_Rou
tes_Database/nfdc_preferred_routes_database.html

If that gets mangled, try http://tinyurl.com/8w2l

john smith wrote:

> I wish there were some general guidelines published for fixes to file
> into for CBAS satellite airports when filing an area navigation/direct
> flight plan. I know the AF/D has some, but they are usually airway
> routings.
> Does anyone know of any sources?
>

rec.avitaion.ifr

There is a heading "DTW ATCT STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES" at the Cleveland
ARTCC web site http://www.zobartcc.org/d21/sop.shtml but AFAICT it is just a
heading and there is no link to any document. :-(

john smith wrote:

> I couldn't pick up my clearance using the published RCO frequency, so
I
> departed and contacted approach.

The RCO there is fussy. You have to transmit for a full second,
release for a full second, and repeat 3 more times.

> I wish there were some general guidelines published for fixes to file

> into for CBAS satellite airports when filing an area
navigation/direct
> flight plan.

This info notwithstanding, Detroit is a special case this week. The
Ryder Cup is in town, and general aviation air traffic is exceptionally
heavy in the area, especially at 7D2 and at PTK.

I actually heard this dialogue yesterday:

DET APR: N1234, Fly heading 200 to intercept, maintain 3000 'til
established, clear for the ILS 23L approach.

N1234: Umm, clear for the ILS 23L, we have a request.
DET APR: N1234, we're not taking requests, just fly the ILS.

One thing I realize after posting this was that they vectored me to the
initial approach fix, though they hadn't asked me what approach I wanted.

john smith wrote:
> One thing I realize after posting this was that they vectored me to
the
> initial approach fix, though they hadn't asked me what approach I
wanted.

Me either. They were giving everyone the same approach into every
airport.

The preferred routes are listed in the AF/D. But those are pretty much
useless. You can get a better clue for the routing by looking at the
STARs. Coming from Columbus you would use Cruxx Four arrival. Just file
direct to Cruxx and then radar vectors to your destination. That way you
are more likely to get cleared as filed.

For the departure, since your airport does not have a DP, look at the DP
for a nearby airport (PTK). Looking at Pontiac Eight Departure, a good
choice would be radar vectors to SCORR intersection and then direct. If
you file it that way, you are likely to get cleared as filed.

I have done it this way many times and has worked most of the time.




john smith > wrote in
:

> I flew from Columbus OH to Detroit MI and back last night.
> Detroit has Class B Airspace surrounding Wayne International, and I
> was going to Oakland Troy (7D2) on the north side.
> The aircraft and equipment was a C182/G.
> There are no airways direct from the Columbus area, so I filed direct,
> planning on going up the east side of the CBAS.
> Just northwest of Mansfield (KMFD), Toledo Approach gave me a reroute;
> direct KTOL, then heading 360, then radar vectors.
> The frequency wasn't busy so I inquired about the reroute and was told
> that Detroit Approach usually vectors all their arrivals into a fix on
> the west side for all the satelite airports.
> I mentioned that I would have preferred to go up the east side.
> He came back and said that that was possible if I wanted to.
> Given that I was now more west than east, I elected to stay the
> course. It added 15-20 minutes to my flight.
>
> When I called FSS for a return briefing I asked if they knew of any
> preferred routing that DET APP would use for my flight back to
> Columbus. The briefer was not aware of any but suggested direct
> Windsor VOR (YQG) direct OSU. So that's what I filed.
> I couldn't pick up my clearance using the published RCO frequency, so
> I departed and contacted approach.
> I was given a series of heading to fly which took me out around and
> outside the CBAS. Then I was given a reroute that was interesting, to
> say the least. The first leg of the reroute was to an intersection 40
> miles south of DET.
> The haze was heavy so there was no horizon (one of those VFR, but IFR
> conditions). I had had an pitch trim fault with the autopilot on the
> trip up, so I hadn't yet turned it on to see if it had reset.
> I was hand flying without a clue where to look on the chart for the
> intersection, I told the controller that and we settled on a heading.
> Once I got leveled off and on heading, I went heads down and searched
> the chart for the intersection, following the clue the controller had
> given me.
> Found it, plugged it into the GPS and was enjoying the smooth air.
> Turned the AP on and everything worked properly. Life is good!
> The controller queries me about a direct heading to my destination. He
> says he will see if he can get me direct once I give him a heading.
> I tell him to standby while I plug it into the handheld GPS, tell him
> 190 and he clears me direct.
>
> I wish there were some general guidelines published for fixes to file
> into for CBAS satellite airports when filing an area navigation/direct
> flight plan. I know the AF/D has some, but they are usually airway
> routings. Does anyone know of any sources?
>

SCORR is exactly where they were sending me!
Thanks for the suggestions Andrew.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> The preferred routes are listed in the AF/D. But those are pretty much
> useless. You can get a better clue for the routing by looking at the
> STARs. Coming from Columbus you would use Cruxx Four arrival. Just file
> direct to Cruxx and then radar vectors to your destination. That way you
> are more likely to get cleared as filed.
> For the departure, since your airport does not have a DP, look at the DP
> for a nearby airport (PTK). Looking at Pontiac Eight Departure, a good
> choice would be radar vectors to SCORR intersection and then direct. If
> you file it that way, you are likely to get cleared as filed.
> I have done it this way many times and has worked most of the time.

SCORR is THE departure gate for IFR piston aircraft leaving the Detroit
area southbound.

ANNTS and CRUXX are where Detroit wants you inbound from the South.

Toledo Approach has a good web page which details this:

http://www.tolatct.faa.gov/freq.htm

Look under "Preferred Routes"

Rich


john smith wrote:
> SCORR is exactly where they were sending me!
> Thanks for the suggestions Andrew.
>
> Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
>> The preferred routes are listed in the AF/D. But those are pretty much
>> useless. You can get a better clue for the routing by looking at the
>> STARs. Coming from Columbus you would use Cruxx Four arrival. Just
>> file direct to Cruxx and then radar vectors to your destination. That
>> way you are more likely to get cleared as filed. For the departure,
>> since your airport does not have a DP, look at the DP for a nearby
>> airport (PTK). Looking at Pontiac Eight Departure, a good choice would
>> be radar vectors to SCORR intersection and then direct. If you file it
>> that way, you are likely to get cleared as filed.
>> I have done it this way many times and has worked most of the time.
>
>

The note on my approach plates says that ANNTS and CRUXX are for
turbojet aircraft and SCORR is for props.
Thanks for the link.

Rich wrote:
> SCORR is THE departure gate for IFR piston aircraft leaving the Detroit
> area southbound.
> ANNTS and CRUXX are where Detroit wants you inbound from the South.
> Toledo Approach has a good web page which details this:
> http://www.tolatct.faa.gov/freq.htm
> Look under "Preferred Routes"

Andrew Sarangan > wrote
> The preferred routes are listed in the AF/D. But those are pretty much
> useless.

Sad but true.

> You can get a better clue for the routing by looking at the
> STARs.

Yes, but... You don't necessarily know what STAR's serve your
airport. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it is. If you come
into EYQ from the East or Northeast, you are going to get the ROKIT 7
arrival. Trust me - happens every time. Only there is no ROKIT 7
arrival for EYQ, and no transition to EYQ on the ROKIT 7. So how do I
know? Experience. Funny thing is, there are STARs published for EYQ
- just not ROKIT 7.

There used to be a WESAT 3 arrival for EYQ. Then BLUBELL ONE was
published. They covered the same territory. Only way to know which
one you would get was local knowledge. Eventually, they shut down
WESAT 3.

Same principle applies to DP's.

Nevertheless, the basic advice given is sound. You do the best you
can working from the available DPs and STARs and it usually works
except when it doesn't, and there nothing will work except local
knowledge.

Michael

(Michael) wrote in message >...

> Nevertheless, the basic advice given is sound. You do the best you
> can working from the available DPs and STARs and it usually works
> except when it doesn't, and there nothing will work except local
> knowledge.

And up here in the BOS-NYC corridor, you just plan on a ride with more
reroutes than a taxi heading from midtown to LGA at rush hour. You
just fly with the chart handy and hope for the best. I suspect the LA
basin and Bay Area are pretty similar.

Best,
-cwk.