Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file individual
legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like to
open the next leg at the missed?

Thanks!

dlevy > wrote:
> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file individual
> legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like to
> open the next leg at the missed?

In theory, you should be able to file a single IFR flight plan that
covers your entire flight, with delays at each intermediate point. I
just filed the following with DUATS:

1 Type of flight plan: IFR
2 Aircraft tail number: N25629
3 Acft type/special equip: P28A/U
4 True airspeed: 130
5 Departure point: HPN
6 Departure time: (UTC) Mon Dec 6 20:00
7 Altitude: 30
8 Route of flight: CMK V3 HFD IJD/D0+05 HFD V3 CMK 4104/07342
9 Destination: HPN
10 Estimated time enroute: 0400
11 Remarks:
12 Fuel on board: 0500
13 Alternate destination(s):
14 Pilot's name: ROY H SMITH
Address: XXX
Phone no.: 999-555-5555
Aircraft home base: HPN
15 Number aboard: 1
16 Color of aircraft: WHITE/BLUE
17 Dest contact name:
Phone no.:

and the computer accepted it. The "IJD/D0+05" means "delay for 5
minutes at IJD". I suppose for a touch-and-go, I could have made it
"IJD/D0+01".

Oddly enough, when I first entered the flight plan, it said "Inserting
lat/long (4104/07342) for HPN to ensure ARTCC flight plan acceptance",
and generated a remark (field 11), "..4104/07342.. IS HPN". I never
changed that field, but by the time I filed it, the field somehow got
cleared. No clue why.

In practice, however, I think you will find it simplier to just file a
separate flight plan for each leg. It seems to be what ATC deals with
best (at least around here). My guess is if I actually called up the
tower to get my clearance, I'd just get a clearance to IJD and be told
I'd get the rest once I got there.

As you said, when you request your approach clearance, just tell the
controller that your intention is to fly the published missed then
pick up your clearance to XXX.

Thanks. I appreciate your time to explain.

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> dlevy > wrote:
>> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file
>> individual
>> legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like
>> to
>> open the next leg at the missed?
>
> In theory, you should be able to file a single IFR flight plan that
> covers your entire flight, with delays at each intermediate point. I
> just filed the following with DUATS:
>
> 1 Type of flight plan: IFR
> 2 Aircraft tail number: N25629
> 3 Acft type/special equip: P28A/U
> 4 True airspeed: 130
> 5 Departure point: HPN
> 6 Departure time: (UTC) Mon Dec 6 20:00
> 7 Altitude: 30
> 8 Route of flight: CMK V3 HFD IJD/D0+05 HFD V3 CMK 4104/07342
> 9 Destination: HPN
> 10 Estimated time enroute: 0400
> 11 Remarks:
> 12 Fuel on board: 0500
> 13 Alternate destination(s):
> 14 Pilot's name: ROY H SMITH
> Address: XXX
> Phone no.: 999-555-5555
> Aircraft home base: HPN
> 15 Number aboard: 1
> 16 Color of aircraft: WHITE/BLUE
> 17 Dest contact name:
> Phone no.:
>
> and the computer accepted it. The "IJD/D0+05" means "delay for 5
> minutes at IJD". I suppose for a touch-and-go, I could have made it
> "IJD/D0+01".
>
> Oddly enough, when I first entered the flight plan, it said "Inserting
> lat/long (4104/07342) for HPN to ensure ARTCC flight plan acceptance",
> and generated a remark (field 11), "..4104/07342.. IS HPN". I never
> changed that field, but by the time I filed it, the field somehow got
> cleared. No clue why.
>
> In practice, however, I think you will find it simplier to just file a
> separate flight plan for each leg. It seems to be what ATC deals with
> best (at least around here). My guess is if I actually called up the
> tower to get my clearance, I'd just get a clearance to IJD and be told
> I'd get the rest once I got there.
>
> As you said, when you request your approach clearance, just tell the
> controller that your intention is to fly the published missed then
> pick up your clearance to XXX.

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
>
> 8 Route of flight: CMK V3 HFD IJD/D0+05 HFD V3 CMK 4104/07342
> Phone no.:
>
> and the computer accepted it. The "IJD/D0+05" means "delay for 5
> minutes at IJD". I suppose for a touch-and-go, I could have made it
> "IJD/D0+01".
>

Now there's an arcane little tidbit. :-)

I assume D is for Delay, and 0+05 is H+MM?

I never knew how to file for a through clearance other than in remarks.

Stan

In article >,
Stan Prevost > wrote:
>
>"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> 8 Route of flight: CMK V3 HFD IJD/D0+05 HFD V3 CMK 4104/07342
>> Phone no.:
>>
>> and the computer accepted it. The "IJD/D0+05" means "delay for 5
>> minutes at IJD". I suppose for a touch-and-go, I could have made it
>> "IJD/D0+01".
>>
>
>Now there's an arcane little tidbit. :-)
>
>I assume D is for Delay, and 0+05 is H+MM?

Exactly.

>I never knew how to file for a through clearance other than in remarks.

Neither did I before this morning :-) I did the old "ask the computer"
thing. Go into DUATs and select "be prompted for a flight plan".
When you get to the Route: prompt, type a "?" and follow the
instructions.

It remains to be seen what would happen if I actually asked for my
clearance. Just because DUAT accepts it, doesn't mean ATC won't
barf. I think I'll try it for real the next time I'm on an IFR
training flight and see how it goes.

"dlevy" > wrote in message
. ..
> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file
> individual legs should I let the controller know before the approach that
> I'd like to open the next leg at the missed?
>
> Thanks!

When I did a similar thing, I put in the remarks section of the flight plan
PLA (practice low approach) at where ever and this never seemed to be a
problem. Then as the PLA airfield was approached, I just asked for the
appropriate approach with a miss and hold. Usually the approach controllers
just said to let then know when I wanted to move on and they cleared me on
my way.
It seemed really straight forward.

Chris

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> dlevy > wrote:
> > Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file
individual
> > legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like
to
> > open the next leg at the missed?
>
> In theory, you should be able to file a single IFR flight plan that
> covers your entire flight, with delays at each intermediate point. I
> just filed the following with DUATS:
>>
> In practice, however, I think you will find it simplier to just file a
> separate flight plan for each leg. It seems to be what ATC deals with
> best (at least around here). My guess is if I actually called up the
> tower to get my clearance, I'd just get a clearance to IJD and be told
> I'd get the rest once I got there.

Most of the time when I hear people on the radio who have tried this it has
not worked and the controller will admonish them to not file "the round
robin" but to file each of the legs separately. That is what I do and never
had a problem.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO
MI-150972
PP-ASEL-IA

Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI
Instructor Yahoo Group at
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-----------------------------------
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"I can accept that Bush won the election. What I have a hard time
swallowing is that I live in a country where more than half the
population is willfully ignorant, politically obstinate, religiously
prejudiced, and embarrassingly gullible."

-------------------------------------

"dlevy" > wrote in message
. ..
> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file
individual
> legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like to
> open the next leg at the missed?

I think it depends a lot on how many sectors you're going to be crossing on
the flight. For instance, when I go from BED to do some approaches at MHT
(~40nm) I'll be worked by at least two approach controllers. When I call
800-WX-BRIEF it's a toss-up whether I get Burlington or Bridgeport. The guys
in Burlington usually say, "Oh, just do it as a round robin" and put that
in. Then I get to MHT, and after the first miss, approach goes into a tizzy
trying to figure out what to do next, and would usually end up filing a new
flight plan for us. Bridgeport OTOH would say file two flight plans, and
Manchester approach (now called Boston for some reason) would just give us a
new clearance and squawk after we're done swimming laps in their pool. In
this case what we would do is notify the approach controller when we first
check in after being handed off. "Boston Approach, Cessna 4955D with you at
3000, practice approaches at Manchester then looking for clearance back to
Bedford" or something similar usually did the trick.

OTOH you can go to BED, LWM, and BVY, with the same controller handling you
the whole time, and in this case I've always filed the round-robin and it's
never caused any confusion.

-cwk.

How are you accessing DUATS? Using web access, I can't find any option for
"be prompted for flight plan". And I searched everything I could find on
DUAT and DUATS and can't find the "delay" feature.

Stan


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Stan Prevost > wrote:
>>
>>"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> 8 Route of flight: CMK V3 HFD IJD/D0+05 HFD V3 CMK
>>> 4104/07342
>>> Phone no.:
>>>
>>> and the computer accepted it. The "IJD/D0+05" means "delay for 5
>>> minutes at IJD". I suppose for a touch-and-go, I could have made it
>>> "IJD/D0+01".
>>>
>>
>>Now there's an arcane little tidbit. :-)
>>
>>I assume D is for Delay, and 0+05 is H+MM?
>
> Exactly.
>
>>I never knew how to file for a through clearance other than in remarks.
>
> Neither did I before this morning :-) I did the old "ask the computer"
> thing. Go into DUATs and select "be prompted for a flight plan".
> When you get to the Route: prompt, type a "?" and follow the
> instructions.
>
> It remains to be seen what would happen if I actually asked for my
> clearance. Just because DUAT accepts it, doesn't mean ATC won't
> barf. I think I'll try it for real the next time I'm on an IFR
> training flight and see how it goes.

Stan Prevost > wrote:
> How are you accessing DUATS? Using web access, I can't find any
> option for "be prompted for flight plan". And I searched everything
> I could find on DUAT and DUATS and can't find the "delay" feature.

We don' need no skinkin' web interface!

I just telnet in (telnet 131.131.7.102). If you watch carefully,
you'll notice that when you ask for a weather briefing, the CGI script
that's driving the web application does the same thing!

On the web, if you scroll down on the main page to the "FAA Flight
Plan Filing" section, then click on the "File" button on the right
hand margin, you'll get to a screen that lets you manually enter a
flight plan. I don't know how to get to the explaination/help stuff,
but it does let you enter the same /DH+MM notation.

Roy Smith wrote:
> Stan Prevost > wrote:
>
>>How are you accessing DUATS? Using web access, I can't find any
>>option for "be prompted for flight plan". And I searched everything
>>I could find on DUAT and DUATS and can't find the "delay" feature.
>
>
> We don' need no skinkin' web interface!

Attaboy. If (collective) you must use a web interface, http://www.enflight.com
is the one I prefer. Some nice formatting of the output from duat.

>
> I just telnet in (telnet 131.131.7.102). If you watch carefully,
> you'll notice that when you ask for a weather briefing, the CGI script
> that's driving the web application does the same thing!

If (collective) you don't like typing in IP addresses, you can "telnet
direct.duats.com".

>
> On the web, if you scroll down on the main page to the "FAA Flight
> Plan Filing" section, then click on the "File" button on the right
> hand margin, you'll get to a screen that lets you manually enter a
> flight plan. I don't know how to get to the explaination/help stuff,
> but it does let you enter the same /DH+MM notation.

Dave Butler > wrote:
> If (collective) you don't like typing in IP addresses, you can "telnet
> direct.duats.com".

Strangely enough, the DNS name seems to have changed over the years,
but the IP address has stayed the same. Kind of the reverse of how
it's supposed to work. At one time it was duats.gte-fsd.com, or
something like that.

I don't actually type the IP address; I've got an alias in my .login
file. All I really type is "duats" :-)

Boy, I haven't used telnet in a decade! More civilized things come along,
you know. :-)

Under WinXP, I can't get it to work. When I enter "telnet 131.131.7.102",
nothing seems to happen, no response. When I enter "telnet
direct.duats.com", I get to the system. It asks for the user code, I enter
it, then I get two lines back, "Enter Password:", and "Invalid Password".
Can't get past that. Three tries, it quits.

Seems odd, though, that they would have help that is very much different
under different access methods.


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Butler > wrote:
>> If (collective) you don't like typing in IP addresses, you can "telnet
>> direct.duats.com".
>
> Strangely enough, the DNS name seems to have changed over the years,
> but the IP address has stayed the same. Kind of the reverse of how
> it's supposed to work. At one time it was duats.gte-fsd.com, or
> something like that.
>
> I don't actually type the IP address; I've got an alias in my .login
> file. All I really type is "duats" :-)
>

Stan Prevost > wrote:
>Boy, I haven't used telnet in a decade! More civilized things come along,
>you know. :-)
>
>Under WinXP, I can't get it to work. When I enter "telnet 131.131.7.102",
>nothing seems to happen, no response.

Hmmm, yeah, I'm getting that too now, but direct.duats.com works (it
resolves to 131.131.7.106). Very strange.

> When I enter "telnet
> direct.duats.com", I get to the system. It asks for the user code, I enter
> it, then I get two lines back, "Enter Password:", and "Invalid Password".
> Can't get past that. Three tries, it quits.

Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
correctly with the telnet server at the other end.

What's going on is when you hit the "Enter" key, it sends "CR NL",
which the machine at the other end (incorrecly) interprets as two line
terminations in a row. Or something very similar is happening
somewhere else in the chain. I have no problem with any telnet client
other than the built-in windows one, so I have to assume it's the
fault of the windows client. It works fine with all the unix telnets
I've tried, and it works fine with the cygwin telnet.

It's amazing that software in service today is demonstrating bugs like
this. It's not like telnet is something new; negotiating EOL
processing was probably figured out 25 years ago. Then again, by 25
years ago, car manufacturers had figured out how to build automatic
carb heat and automatic mixture control, and engines that start
reliably in all kinds of weather :-)

Roy Smith wrote:
> Stan Prevost > wrote:
>
>>Boy, I haven't used telnet in a decade! More civilized things come along,
>>you know. :-)
>>
>>Under WinXP, I can't get it to work. When I enter "telnet 131.131.7.102",
>>nothing seems to happen, no response.
>
>
> Hmmm, yeah, I'm getting that too now, but direct.duats.com works (it
> resolves to 131.131.7.106). Very strange.
>
>
>>When I enter "telnet
>>direct.duats.com", I get to the system. It asks for the user code, I enter
>>it, then I get two lines back, "Enter Password:", and "Invalid Password".
>>Can't get past that. Three tries, it quits.
>
>
> Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
> with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
> correctly with the telnet server at the other end.

Exactly.

From my Solaris I get:
telnet direct.duats.com ->successful login
telnet 131.131.7.106 ->successful login
telnet 131.131.7.102 ->Connection closed by foreign host.

On 6 Dec 2004 13:43:02 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:

>dlevy > wrote:
>> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file individual
>> legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like to
>> open the next leg at the missed?
>
>In theory, you should be able to file a single IFR flight plan that
>covers your entire flight, with delays at each intermediate point. I
>just filed the following with DUATS:
>
> 1 Type of flight plan: IFR
> 2 Aircraft tail number: N25629
> 3 Acft type/special equip: P28A/U
> 4 True airspeed: 130

That's a pretty fast Archer. Do you really cruise @ 130 KTAS?

In article >,
Nathan Young > wrote:
>On 6 Dec 2004 13:43:02 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:
>
>>dlevy > wrote:
>>> Should I file individual legs? I don't need to land. If I file individual
>>> legs should I let the controller know before the approach that I'd like to
>>> open the next leg at the missed?
>>
>>In theory, you should be able to file a single IFR flight plan that
>>covers your entire flight, with delays at each intermediate point. I
>>just filed the following with DUATS:
>>
>> 1 Type of flight plan: IFR
>> 2 Aircraft tail number: N25629
>> 3 Acft type/special equip: P28A/U
>> 4 True airspeed: 130
>
>That's a pretty fast Archer. Do you really cruise @ 130 KTAS?

120-130, something like that. For the purposes of filing a flight
plan, nobody really cares about that level of precision.

On 9 Dec 2004 11:49:17 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:

>Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
>with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
>correctly with the telnet server at the other end.


Try using CNTRL - M instead of enter. This will only send a CR, no
NL.

HTH.
z

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Dec 2004 11:49:17 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:
>
>>Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
>>with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
>>correctly with the telnet server at the other end.
>
>
> Try using CNTRL - M instead of enter. This will only send a CR, no
> NL.
>
> HTH.
> z

I had already tried that, same response.

Stan

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:45:59 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
> wrote:

>
>"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
>> On 9 Dec 2004 11:49:17 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:
>>
>>>Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
>>>with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
>>>correctly with the telnet server at the other end.
>>
>>
>> Try using CNTRL - M instead of enter. This will only send a CR, no
>> NL.
>>
>> HTH.
>> z
>
>I had already tried that, same response.
>
>Stan
>
How about CNTRL-L. That's just a linefeed, no CR.

HTH.
z

Well, I thought that was a CNTRL-J, but I haven't tried that.


"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:45:59 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
>>> On 9 Dec 2004 11:49:17 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
>>>>with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
>>>>correctly with the telnet server at the other end.
>>>
>>>
>>> Try using CNTRL - M instead of enter. This will only send a CR, no
>>> NL.
>>>
>>> HTH.
>>> z
>>
>>I had already tried that, same response.
>>
>>Stan
>>
> How about CNTRL-L. That's just a linefeed, no CR.
>
> HTH.
> z

Stan Prevost wrote:

> Well, I thought that was a CNTRL-J, but I haven't tried that.
>
>
> "zatatime" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:45:59 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> On 9 Dec 2004 11:49:17 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, that's what happens when you use the telnet client that comes
>>>>>with windows. It's not negotiating the end-of-line processing
>>>>>correctly with the telnet server at the other end.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Try using CNTRL - M instead of enter. This will only send a CR, no
>>>>NL.
>>>>
>>>>HTH.
>>>>z
>>>
>>>I had already tried that, same response.
>>>
>>>Stan
>>>
>>
>>How about CNTRL-L. That's just a linefeed, no CR.
>>
>>HTH.
>>z
>
>
>
>
You are right. Control-L is a Form Feed (014 octal).

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:57:21 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
> wrote:

>You are right. Control-L is a Form Feed (014 octal).


So CNTRL-J is line feed and CNTRL-L is form feed?

I used to know all of these, and be able to convert to ascii code.
Getting old, and all this GUI crap doesn't help my memory at all!

Thanks.
z

(A perfect example of a thread that gets hard to read without
following posting standards.)

zatatime wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:57:21 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>You are right. Control-L is a Form Feed (014 octal).
>
>
>
> So CNTRL-J is line feed and CNTRL-L is form feed?
Right.
>
> I used to know all of these, and be able to convert to ascii code.
> Getting old, and all this GUI crap doesn't help my memory at all!
Agree. And, I'll switch to hex when I grow 6 more fingers.

"Stan Prevost" > wrote:

> Boy, I haven't used telnet in a decade! More civilized things come along,
> you know. :-)
>
> Under WinXP, I can't get it to work. When I enter "telnet 131.131.7.102",
> nothing seems to happen, no response. When I enter "telnet
> direct.duats.com", I get to the system. It asks for the user code, I enter
> it, then I get two lines back, "Enter Password:", and "Invalid Password".
> Can't get past that. Three tries, it quits.

I just looked at my duats alias on one of my boxes and found I've been
using "telnet -K". The manpage (Mac-OSX) says -K "Specifies no
automatic login to the remote system."

It shouldn't be necessary, since the telnet client and server should
negotiate this stuff automatically. Still, if memory serves, on some
long-forgotten system, adding the -K did allow me to connect when
leaving the -K out didn't. It's worth a try if all else fails.