This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
and a P-51A?

This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
and a P-51A?

"Scubabix" wrote:

> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
> and a P-51A?

Dive brakes. The A-36 was the dive-bomber version
of the Allison-engined Mustang.

I'll quote from one of Ernie Pyle's columns, in his
collection "Brave Men" (ch. 12, "Dive Bombers,"
describing life in the 12th Air Support Command
in Italy):

"Our dive bombers were known as A-36 Invaders.
Actually they were nothing more than the famous P-51
equipped with diving brakes. For a long time they
didn't have any name at all, and then one day in Sicily
one of the pilots said, 'Why don't we call them
Invaders, since we're invading?'"

and

"Those boys dived about eight thousand feet before
dropping their bombs. Without brakes their speed in
such a dive would ordinarily build up to around seven
hundred miles an hour, but the brakes held them down
to around 390. The brakes were nothing but metal
flaps in the form of griddles about two feet long and
eight or ten inches high. They lay flat on the wings
during ordinary flying."

and

"If you ever heard a dive bombing by our A-36 Invader
planes you'd never forget it. Even in normal flight that
plane made a sort of screaming noise; when this was
multiplied manifold by the velocity of the dive the wail
could be heard for miles From the ground it sounded
as though they were coming directly down on us. It was
a horrifying thing.

"The German Stuka could never touch the A-36 for sheer
frightfulness of sound. Also, the Stuka always dived at an
angle. But those Invaders came literally straight down. If
a man looked up and saw one above him, he couldn't tell
where it was headed. It could strike anywhere within a
mile on any side of him. That's the reason it spread its terror
so wide."

--Bill Thompson

"Scubabix" wrote:

> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
> and a P-51A?

Dive brakes. The A-36 was the dive-bomber version
of the Allison-engined Mustang.

I'll quote from one of Ernie Pyle's columns, in his
collection "Brave Men" (ch. 12, "Dive Bombers,"
describing life in the 12th Air Support Command
in Italy):

"Our dive bombers were known as A-36 Invaders.
Actually they were nothing more than the famous P-51
equipped with diving brakes. For a long time they
didn't have any name at all, and then one day in Sicily
one of the pilots said, 'Why don't we call them
Invaders, since we're invading?'"

and

"Those boys dived about eight thousand feet before
dropping their bombs. Without brakes their speed in
such a dive would ordinarily build up to around seven
hundred miles an hour, but the brakes held them down
to around 390. The brakes were nothing but metal
flaps in the form of griddles about two feet long and
eight or ten inches high. They lay flat on the wings
during ordinary flying."

and

"If you ever heard a dive bombing by our A-36 Invader
planes you'd never forget it. Even in normal flight that
plane made a sort of screaming noise; when this was
multiplied manifold by the velocity of the dive the wail
could be heard for miles From the ground it sounded
as though they were coming directly down on us. It was
a horrifying thing.

"The German Stuka could never touch the A-36 for sheer
frightfulness of sound. Also, the Stuka always dived at an
angle. But those Invaders came literally straight down. If
a man looked up and saw one above him, he couldn't tell
where it was headed. It could strike anywhere within a
mile on any side of him. That's the reason it spread its terror
so wide."

--Bill Thompson

"William R Thompson" > skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
> "Scubabix" wrote:
>
>> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
>> and a P-51A?


Design and development
After the RAF saw the Mustang's less than spectacular performance, with the
Allison engine, they decided not to order any P-51As, which they called the
"Mustang Mk1." As the USAAC considered the use of the P-51A, they realized
that its low-altitude performance, ruggedness and speed were more than
sufficient in a ground attack/support role. They changed the designation and
gave the P-51A a new one, the A-36 Apache. The name "Apache" was seldom used
and the A-36s used by the USAAF in Italy were usually referred to as
"Mustangs."
There were several reasons for the P-51 to be modified as a dive-bomber. The
Americans were impressed by the German Ju 87 Stuka dive-bomber and wanted a
dive-bomber of their own. The other reason is that USAAF still considered
the Mustang as an ineffective high-altitude escort fighter because of poor
performance above 20,000 feet and that no credits could be obtained for it.
The Mustang was quickly modified with dive brakes and bomb racks and pressed
into service.

Operational service
Unofficially named "Invaders," A-36As were first assigned to the 27th and
86th Bombardment Groups (Dive), later redesignated as Fighter-Bomber Groups.
In June 1943, the plane went into action from North Africa. During the
Italian campaign, A-36A pilots flew bomber escort and strafing missions as
well as ground support bombing attacks and even had air-to-air kills over
Luftwaffe fighters. A-36As also served with the 311th Fighter Bomber Group
in India. In 1944, AAF A-36As were replaced by P-51s and P-47s when
experience showed that these high-altitude fighters, equipped with bomb
racks, were more suitable for low-level missions than the A-36As.
Nevertheless, the A-36 was used with great success as a dive-bomber,
acquiring a reputation for precision, sturdiness and silence. The A-36
continued in serrvice in small numbers throughout the remaining year of the
war.

"William R Thompson" > skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
> "Scubabix" wrote:
>
>> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
>> and a P-51A?


Design and development
After the RAF saw the Mustang's less than spectacular performance, with the
Allison engine, they decided not to order any P-51As, which they called the
"Mustang Mk1." As the USAAC considered the use of the P-51A, they realized
that its low-altitude performance, ruggedness and speed were more than
sufficient in a ground attack/support role. They changed the designation and
gave the P-51A a new one, the A-36 Apache. The name "Apache" was seldom used
and the A-36s used by the USAAF in Italy were usually referred to as
"Mustangs."
There were several reasons for the P-51 to be modified as a dive-bomber. The
Americans were impressed by the German Ju 87 Stuka dive-bomber and wanted a
dive-bomber of their own. The other reason is that USAAF still considered
the Mustang as an ineffective high-altitude escort fighter because of poor
performance above 20,000 feet and that no credits could be obtained for it.
The Mustang was quickly modified with dive brakes and bomb racks and pressed
into service.

Operational service
Unofficially named "Invaders," A-36As were first assigned to the 27th and
86th Bombardment Groups (Dive), later redesignated as Fighter-Bomber Groups.
In June 1943, the plane went into action from North Africa. During the
Italian campaign, A-36A pilots flew bomber escort and strafing missions as
well as ground support bombing attacks and even had air-to-air kills over
Luftwaffe fighters. A-36As also served with the 311th Fighter Bomber Group
in India. In 1944, AAF A-36As were replaced by P-51s and P-47s when
experience showed that these high-altitude fighters, equipped with bomb
racks, were more suitable for low-level missions than the A-36As.
Nevertheless, the A-36 was used with great success as a dive-bomber,
acquiring a reputation for precision, sturdiness and silence. The A-36
continued in serrvice in small numbers throughout the remaining year of the
war.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew if I asked here, I'd get an answer.
Happy New Years to all.
Rob

"Blume, Alf" <AlfBlume(a)hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
>
> "William R Thompson" > skrev i en meddelelse
> ink.net...
>> "Scubabix" wrote:
>>
>>> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an
>>> A-36 and a P-51A?
>
>
> Design and development
> After the RAF saw the Mustang's less than spectacular performance, with
> the Allison engine, they decided not to order any P-51As, which they
> called the "Mustang Mk1." As the USAAC considered the use of the P-51A,
> they realized that its low-altitude performance, ruggedness and speed were
> more than sufficient in a ground attack/support role. They changed the
> designation and gave the P-51A a new one, the A-36 Apache. The name
> "Apache" was seldom used and the A-36s used by the USAAF in Italy were
> usually referred to as "Mustangs."
> There were several reasons for the P-51 to be modified as a dive-bomber.
> The Americans were impressed by the German Ju 87 Stuka dive-bomber and
> wanted a dive-bomber of their own. The other reason is that USAAF still
> considered the Mustang as an ineffective high-altitude escort fighter
> because of poor performance above 20,000 feet and that no credits could be
> obtained for it. The Mustang was quickly modified with dive brakes and
> bomb racks and pressed into service.
>
> Operational service
> Unofficially named "Invaders," A-36As were first assigned to the 27th and
> 86th Bombardment Groups (Dive), later redesignated as Fighter-Bomber
> Groups. In June 1943, the plane went into action from North Africa. During
> the Italian campaign, A-36A pilots flew bomber escort and strafing
> missions as well as ground support bombing attacks and even had air-to-air
> kills over Luftwaffe fighters. A-36As also served with the 311th Fighter
> Bomber Group in India. In 1944, AAF A-36As were replaced by P-51s and
> P-47s when experience showed that these high-altitude fighters, equipped
> with bomb racks, were more suitable for low-level missions than the
> A-36As.
> Nevertheless, the A-36 was used with great success as a dive-bomber,
> acquiring a reputation for precision, sturdiness and silence. The A-36
> continued in serrvice in small numbers throughout the remaining year of
> the war.
>

Thanks for the clarification. I knew if I asked here, I'd get an answer.
Happy New Years to all.
Rob

"Blume, Alf" <AlfBlume(a)hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
>
> "William R Thompson" > skrev i en meddelelse
> ink.net...
>> "Scubabix" wrote:
>>
>>> This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an
>>> A-36 and a P-51A?
>
>
> Design and development
> After the RAF saw the Mustang's less than spectacular performance, with
> the Allison engine, they decided not to order any P-51As, which they
> called the "Mustang Mk1." As the USAAC considered the use of the P-51A,
> they realized that its low-altitude performance, ruggedness and speed were
> more than sufficient in a ground attack/support role. They changed the
> designation and gave the P-51A a new one, the A-36 Apache. The name
> "Apache" was seldom used and the A-36s used by the USAAF in Italy were
> usually referred to as "Mustangs."
> There were several reasons for the P-51 to be modified as a dive-bomber.
> The Americans were impressed by the German Ju 87 Stuka dive-bomber and
> wanted a dive-bomber of their own. The other reason is that USAAF still
> considered the Mustang as an ineffective high-altitude escort fighter
> because of poor performance above 20,000 feet and that no credits could be
> obtained for it. The Mustang was quickly modified with dive brakes and
> bomb racks and pressed into service.
>
> Operational service
> Unofficially named "Invaders," A-36As were first assigned to the 27th and
> 86th Bombardment Groups (Dive), later redesignated as Fighter-Bomber
> Groups. In June 1943, the plane went into action from North Africa. During
> the Italian campaign, A-36A pilots flew bomber escort and strafing
> missions as well as ground support bombing attacks and even had air-to-air
> kills over Luftwaffe fighters. A-36As also served with the 311th Fighter
> Bomber Group in India. In 1944, AAF A-36As were replaced by P-51s and
> P-47s when experience showed that these high-altitude fighters, equipped
> with bomb racks, were more suitable for low-level missions than the
> A-36As.
> Nevertheless, the A-36 was used with great success as a dive-bomber,
> acquiring a reputation for precision, sturdiness and silence. The A-36
> continued in serrvice in small numbers throughout the remaining year of
> the war.
>

I remember reading somewhere that how the a/c was bought by the Air
Corps had partly to do with Congress. They had allocated only so much
for fighter a/c and when the Mustang becae available it had all ben
spent, but there was still money left for attack and army cooperation
a/c so it was bought under that umbrella and modified appropriately.
P.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 08:00:44 -0500, "Scubabix" >
wrote:

>This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
>and a P-51A?
>

I remember reading somewhere that how the a/c was bought by the Air
Corps had partly to do with Congress. They had allocated only so much
for fighter a/c and when the Mustang becae available it had all ben
spent, but there was still money left for attack and army cooperation
a/c so it was bought under that umbrella and modified appropriately.
P.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 08:00:44 -0500, "Scubabix" >
wrote:

>This is probably a stupid question, what's the difference between an A-36
>and a P-51A?
>