Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and he
wants the F-16 to climb?


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

"Christopher" > wrote in message

> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and he
> wants the F-16 to climb?

Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some "play" to
it.

--
http://www.delversdungeon.dragonsfoot.org
Remove the X's in my email address to respond.
"Damn you Silvey, and your endless fortunes." - Stephen Weir
I hate furries.

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:53:37 GMT, "Bill Silvey"
> wrote:

>"Christopher" > wrote in message

>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and he
>> wants the F-16 to climb?
>
>Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some "play" to
>it.
>

By *play* how many degrees can the pilot now move it?



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

>>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
>>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
>>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and he
>>> wants the F-16 to climb?
>>

Both. However, the purpose of the movement is only to provide artificial feel
or feedback to the pilot. I read in the flight manual (a while back) that the
stick moves either 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch longitudinally and laterally. I don't
know how many degrees of pitch and roll movement about the translation point
this equates to. For all intents and purposes, the stick is rigid. I think
that General Dynamics incorporated this feature into the second block of
F-16A/B aircraft.





Kurt Todoroff


Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
Consent, not compulsion.

Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1986/articles/oct_86/cockpit/

Explains it better than I can...

Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
USAF Flight Tester
(B-2, F-16, F-15, F-5, T-37, T-38, C-5, QF-106)



On 20 Sep 2003 18:54:19 GMT, (Kurt R.
Todoroff) wrote:

>>>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
>>>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
>>>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and he
>>>> wants the F-16 to climb?
>>>
>
>Both. However, the purpose of the movement is only to provide artificial feel
>or feedback to the pilot. I read in the flight manual (a while back) that the
>stick moves either 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch longitudinally and laterally. I don't
>know how many degrees of pitch and roll movement about the translation point
>this equates to. For all intents and purposes, the stick is rigid. I think
>that General Dynamics incorporated this feature into the second block of
>F-16A/B aircraft.
>
>
>
>
>
>Kurt Todoroff

>
> Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
> Consent, not compulsion.
>
>Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Ross. Joe Bill's article was fascinating!

Earl
________________________

Jets Press Publishing
By Mechanics, for everyone -- about Jets
http://www.jjetspress.com




"Air Force Jayhawk" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1986/articles/oct_86/cockpit/
>
> Explains it better than I can...
>
> Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
> USAF Flight Tester
> (B-2, F-16, F-15, F-5, T-37, T-38, C-5, QF-106)
>
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2003 18:54:19 GMT, (Kurt R.
> Todoroff) wrote:
>
> >>>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
> >>>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
> >>>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and
he
> >>>> wants the F-16 to climb?
> >>>
> >
> >Both. However, the purpose of the movement is only to provide artificial
feel
> >or feedback to the pilot. I read in the flight manual (a while back)
that the
> >stick moves either 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch longitudinally and laterally. I
don't
> >know how many degrees of pitch and roll movement about the translation
point
> >this equates to. For all intents and purposes, the stick is rigid. I
think
> >that General Dynamics incorporated this feature into the second block of
> >F-16A/B aircraft.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Kurt Todoroff
>
> >
> > Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
> > Consent, not compulsion.
> >
> >Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply
>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:59:59 GMT, "Earl Heron"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the thoughtful post, Ross. Joe Bill's article was fascinating!
>

Yes, it's very informative, thanks.




>
>
>
>
>"Air Force Jayhawk" > wrote in message
...
>> http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1986/articles/oct_86/cockpit/
>>
>> Explains it better than I can...
>>
>> Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
>> USAF Flight Tester
>> (B-2, F-16, F-15, F-5, T-37, T-38, C-5, QF-106)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Sep 2003 18:54:19 GMT, (Kurt R.
>> Todoroff) wrote:
>>
>> >>>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
>> >>>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
>> >>>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and
>he
>> >>>> wants the F-16 to climb?
>> >>>
>> >
>> >Both. However, the purpose of the movement is only to provide artificial
>feel
>> >or feedback to the pilot. I read in the flight manual (a while back)
>that the
>> >stick moves either 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch longitudinally and laterally. I
>don't
>> >know how many degrees of pitch and roll movement about the translation
>point
>> >this equates to. For all intents and purposes, the stick is rigid. I
>think
>> >that General Dynamics incorporated this feature into the second block of
>> >F-16A/B aircraft.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Kurt Todoroff
>>
>> >
>> > Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
>> > Consent, not compulsion.
>> >
>> >Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply
>>
>
>

Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

"Christopher" > wrote in message
...
> >Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some "play"
to
> >it.
> >
>
> By *play* how many degrees can the pilot now move it?


Check out http://www.ultra-msi.com/mini.html, a supplier to the aerospace
industry of force-joyticks.

Si

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:06:29 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
> wrote:

>"Christopher" > wrote in message
...
>> >Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some "play"
>to
>> >it.
>> >
>>
>> By *play* how many degrees can the pilot now move it?
>
>
>Check out http://www.ultra-msi.com/mini.html, a supplier to the aerospace
>industry of force-joyticks.

Just did and got this:

The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please try the following:

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is
spelled correctly.

Open the www.ultra-msi.com home page, and then look for links to the
information you want.
Click the Back button to try another link.
HTTP 404 - File not found
Internet Information Services


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Technical Information (for support personnel)

More information:
Microsoft Support


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

"Christopher" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:06:29 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Christopher" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some
"play"
> >to
> >> >it.
> >> >
> >>
> >> By *play* how many degrees can the pilot now move it?
> >
> >
> >Check out http://www.ultra-msi.com/mini.html, a supplier to the aerospace
> >industry of force-joyticks.
>
> Just did and got this:
>
> The page cannot be found
> The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
> changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
>
I tried and got the correct page.

Tex

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:31:13 -0600, "Tex Houston"
> wrote:

>
>"Christopher" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:06:29 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >"Christopher" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> >Initially it was a force-sensing stick, but later they added some
>"play"
>> >to
>> >> >it.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> By *play* how many degrees can the pilot now move it?
>> >
>> >
>> >Check out http://www.ultra-msi.com/mini.html, a supplier to the aerospace
>> >industry of force-joyticks.
>>
>> Just did and got this:
>>
>> The page cannot be found
>> The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
>> changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
>>
>I tried and got the correct page.

Me to without the /mini.html I then put the /mini.html in and it
loaded fine.



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

It is also interesting to note that the amount of force applied to, or
deflection of, the control stick does not translate into xx degrees of
control surface deflection. The stick inputs are seen as rate inputs,
not deflections, so when you want to roll faster you apply more force
to the stick and the control surfaces deflect whatever amount it takes
to achieve that rate. This is also the reason you don't have to tweak
the stick in the other direction to stop a roll or pitch rate. When
you release force on the stick, the control system senses a zero rate
input and the roll (or pitch) stops right then and there. Hope that
makes sense.

GregD

All are quite welcome :)

AFJ

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:15:52 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:59:59 GMT, "Earl Heron"
> wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the thoughtful post, Ross. Joe Bill's article was fascinating!
>>
>
>Yes, it's very informative, thanks.
>

>>
>>"Air Force Jayhawk" > wrote in message
...
>>> http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1986/articles/oct_86/cockpit/
>>>
>>> Explains it better than I can...
>>>
>>> Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
>>> USAF Flight Tester
>>> (B-2, F-16, F-15, F-5, T-37, T-38, C-5, QF-106)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 Sep 2003 18:54:19 GMT, (Kurt R.
>>> Todoroff) wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>> Does it move when say when the pilot wants to climb, or does it have
>>> >>>> pressure sensors on a rigid stick so the stick can inform the
>>> >>>> computers the pilots hand is pressing on the front of the stick and
>>he
>>> >>>> wants the F-16 to climb?
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >Both. However, the purpose of the movement is only to provide artificial
>>feel
>>> >or feedback to the pilot. I read in the flight manual (a while back)
>>that the
>>> >stick moves either 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch longitudinally and laterally. I
>>don't
>>> >know how many degrees of pitch and roll movement about the translation
>>point
>>> >this equates to. For all intents and purposes, the stick is rigid. I
>>think
>>> >that General Dynamics incorporated this feature into the second block of
>>> >F-16A/B aircraft.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Kurt Todoroff
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Markets, not mandates and mob rule.
>>> > Consent, not compulsion.
>>> >
>>> >Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Christopher
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++
>"Kites rise highest against
>the wind - not with it."
> Winston Churchill

On 21 Sep 2003 11:23:49 -0700, (GregD) wrote:

>It is also interesting to note that the amount of force applied to, or
>deflection of, the control stick does not translate into xx degrees of
>control surface deflection. The stick inputs are seen as rate inputs,
>not deflections, so when you want to roll faster you apply more force
>to the stick and the control surfaces deflect whatever amount it takes
>to achieve that rate. This is also the reason you don't have to tweak
>the stick in the other direction to stop a roll or pitch rate. When
>you release force on the stick, the control system senses a zero rate
>input and the roll (or pitch) stops right then and there. Hope that
>makes sense.

Yes, very much. Thanks.



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill