There has been some recent discussion (and I use that word loosely)
about the diffrerences between flying a real aircraft, an RC aircraft
and the MS flight simulator or any simulator for that matter.

One type of flying not brought up was what seems to be a hybrid of
those, the unmanned drone such as the Predator that was recently
deployed by NASA to help fight the fires in California. Flown by a
"pilot" (can you call him a pilot?) sitting in a building at Edwards
AF base it seems this could be a very difficult type of flying. The
pilot was interviewed on NPR a couple of days ago and commented that
when he first was learning to fly the drone, his instructor told him
that it's like flying a real airplane but without 4 of your 5 senses.
There is no sound of the engines to give him any feedback, no sense of
feel to give clues about attitude or performance, no sense of smell or
taste that could indicate something is leaking or burning. All of the
required sesory input and data is processed only with visual cues.

I have been doing a little research on the 'net, but can't yet find
any information on how they actully fly the drone. Does the pilot see
an image through a camera much like the view you get with a single
monitor in MSFS. Are there multiple cameras? Do they pan around? Or is
everthing flown IFR by instruments?

What about ATC and flying in and around commercial and GA traffic? Do
they contact ATC centers and airport approach controls? How would they
communicate with ATC? Would it be via telephone since the standard
radio frequencies are not going to work from a ground based station to
another far off ground based station?

Just some musings I have had since I read the NASA drone story.



Kirk Ellis
PP-ASEL
Jacksonville, FL

On Oct 26, 10:18 am, KAE > wrote:
> There has been some recent discussion (and I use that word loosely)
> about the diffrerences between flying a real aircraft, an RC aircraft
> and the MS flight simulator or any simulator for that matter.
>
> One type of flying not brought up was what seems to be a hybrid of
> those, the unmanned drone such as the Predator that was recently
> deployed by NASA to help fight the fires in California. Flown by a
> "pilot" (can you call him a pilot?) sitting in a building at Edwards
> AF base it seems this could be a very difficult type of flying. The
> pilot was interviewed on NPR a couple of days ago and commented that
> when he first was learning to fly the drone, his instructor told him
> that it's like flying a real airplane but without 4 of your 5 senses.
> There is no sound of the engines to give him any feedback, no sense of
> feel to give clues about attitude or performance, no sense of smell or
> taste that could indicate something is leaking or burning. All of the
> required sesory input and data is processed only with visual cues.
>
> I have been doing a little research on the 'net, but can't yet find
> any information on how they actully fly the drone. Does the pilot see
> an image through a camera much like the view you get with a single
> monitor in MSFS. Are there multiple cameras? Do they pan around? Or is
> everthing flown IFR by instruments?
>
> What about ATC and flying in and around commercial and GA traffic? Do
> they contact ATC centers and airport approach controls? How would they
> communicate with ATC? Would it be via telephone since the standard
> radio frequencies are not going to work from a ground based station to
> another far off ground based station?

I've spoken with many of the Predator pilots. They fly out of Beale
which is down the street from me. Yes, they do talk to ATC by a GPS
relay on the aircraft. The aircraft has *NO* TCAS or avoidance gear
(although has an extra bay for one). As a result anytime the plane is
flying over the area the FAA requires a TFR the entire time its up
(since its single engine it may have to return). The take off and
landing is done local (Beale, Iraq, etc). The enroute is *ALL* flown
from Beale. They said its not stick and rudder flying, its point and
click flying. They only have a limited camera for looking for other
aircraft and basically say there is *NO* see and avoid possible.
Right now there are pilots in Beale AFB in California flying missions
over Iraq.

-Robert

KAE wrote:
> There has been some recent discussion (and I use that word loosely)
> about the diffrerences between flying a real aircraft, an RC aircraft
> and the MS flight simulator or any simulator for that matter.
>
> One type of flying not brought up was what seems to be a hybrid of
> those, the unmanned drone such as the Predator that was recently
> deployed by NASA to help fight the fires in California. Flown by a
> "pilot" (can you call him a pilot?) sitting in a building at Edwards
> AF base it seems this could be a very difficult type of flying. The
> pilot was interviewed on NPR a couple of days ago and commented that
> when he first was learning to fly the drone, his instructor told him
> that it's like flying a real airplane but without 4 of your 5 senses.
> There is no sound of the engines to give him any feedback, no sense of
> feel to give clues about attitude or performance, no sense of smell or
> taste that could indicate something is leaking or burning. All of the
> required sesory input and data is processed only with visual cues.
>


Here's a big enough photo that you can zoom in on the individual displays.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/050426-F-6911G-108.jpg

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...

> Here's a big enough photo that you can zoom in on the individual displays.
>
> http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/050426-F-6911G-108.jpg


Funny! They're wearing big ol' David Clark headsets.

-c

In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> I've spoken with many of the Predator pilots. They fly out of Beale
> which is down the street from me. Yes, they do talk to ATC by a GPS
> relay on the aircraft...

via a GPS relay? that's a neat trick.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:47:52 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
> wrote:

>I've spoken with many of the Predator pilots. They fly out of Beale
>which is down the street from me. Yes, they do talk to ATC by a GPS
>relay on the aircraft. The aircraft has *NO* TCAS or avoidance gear
>(although has an extra bay for one). As a result anytime the plane is
>flying over the area the FAA requires a TFR the entire time its up
>(since its single engine it may have to return). The take off and
>landing is done local (Beale, Iraq, etc). The enroute is *ALL* flown
>from Beale. They said its not stick and rudder flying, its point and
>click flying. They only have a limited camera for looking for other
>aircraft and basically say there is *NO* see and avoid possible.
>Right now there are pilots in Beale AFB in California flying missions
>over Iraq.
>
>-Robert

I couldn't tell from the photo posted above if they have rudder
pedals, but the predator looks like it has rudders both on the v-tails
and on the downward directed rudder. Does the predator require rudder
pedals to fly it, or are the rudders on the aircraft auto connected to
the ailerons?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:22:37 -0400, Kirk Ellis
> wrote in
>:

>Does the predator require rudder
>pedals to fly it, or are the rudders on the aircraft auto connected to
>the ailerons?

You may want to ask some of your questions in rec.aviation.military
where there are UAV pilots to answer them.

You'll find some information here: http://tinyurl.com/2zsvl5