For you open cockpit flyers: what are the RIGHT goggles to get?

I was reading in Neil William's aerobatics book that he would always
take goggles with him -- even in closed cockpit. Why? You never really
know if a bird or other accident might take out the windshield. In
fact, there is a fairly recent thread about a mid-air in which the
windshield of a C152 was essentially knocked out but the plane still
managed to land. Good time to have the goggs -- if you are in a
position to put them on afterward.

That's maybe pretty damned rare. If you've had your windshield knocked
out I'd like to hear about it.

Mostly, it's a question for the open cockpit guys.

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:23:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:

> For you open cockpit flyers: what are the RIGHT goggles to get?
>
> I was reading in Neil William's aerobatics book that he would always
> take goggles with him -- even in closed cockpit. Why? You never really
> know if a bird or other accident might take out the windshield. In
> fact, there is a fairly recent thread about a mid-air in which the
> windshield of a C152 was essentially knocked out but the plane still
> managed to land. Good time to have the goggs -- if you are in a
> position to put them on afterward.
>
> That's maybe pretty damned rare. If you've had your windshield knocked
> out I'd like to hear about it.
>
> Mostly, it's a question for the open cockpit guys.

Having flown almost exclusively in open cockpits for the past 20+ years, I know
a bit about them. Over the years, I've bought them from sporting goods stores,
military surplus outlets, motorcycle stores, and aviation suppliers. The best
goggle I've found is the "Rallye" from Flight Suits, Limited.

http://www.flightsuits.com/open_goggle.html

Seals well, fits over glasses (as long as they aren't outlandishly large), and
looks good.

In second place is a plain ol' set of US Military surplus desert goggles. They
are almost as good as the Flightsuits.com ones, but sell for about a quarter of
the price. You can buy those at most of online paramilitary/police outfitters
like the US Cavalry store.

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=5492&TabID=548

Some reviews think they move around too much, that's probably when you have to
run and jump and do Army-type stuff wearing them. I never had any problem in
the cockpit. The nice thing about them is that they're almost a perfect match
for the WWII USAAF goggle.

Ski goggles work pretty good, but they're generally fairly ugly. I've done
stuff like scrape off raised lettering and replace multicolor bands with plain
black elastic.

Motorcycle shops often carry the crome-and-leather units that do look a lot like
the '30s/'40s style goggles. Here I am modeling a set:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/ice5.gif

This didn't have the best seal, since the goggle/face interface was a piece of
padded leather. The angle style like this give a definitive break in your
visual field...not much of a problem during the day, but it does weird things to
the runway lights coming by at night.

A major factor is whether you wear glasses...the best-looking goggles are
generally too small/sit too close to the face to allow you to wear glasses
underneath. It's possible to get prescription goggles....

http://www.prescriptiongoggles.com/

....if you really have to have that classic look.

We recently had a discussion along this line on the Fly Baby mailing list. See:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flybabylist/message/7605

....and follow the thread.

A friend of mine wears a full military-style helmet when he flies his Boredom
Fighter. It gives him maximum protection in the case of an accident, and the
face shield doesn't block his peripheral vision like goggles will.

And if you're flying open-cockpit, don't forget the scarf!

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/scarves.html

Ron Wanttaja

wrote in news:e83df202-83b3-4ade-b6c9-f2df33f85ca9
@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

> For you open cockpit flyers: what are the RIGHT goggles to get?
>
> I was reading in Neil William's aerobatics book that he would always
> take goggles with him -- even in closed cockpit. Why? You never really
> know if a bird or other accident might take out the windshield. In
> fact, there is a fairly recent thread about a mid-air in which the
> windshield of a C152 was essentially knocked out but the plane still
> managed to land. Good time to have the goggs -- if you are in a
> position to put them on afterward.
>
> That's maybe pretty damned rare. If you've had your windshield knocked
> out I'd like to hear about it.
>
> Mostly, it's a question for the open cockpit guys.
>

Well, we had rules about flying bipes with goggles and I and mst of the
other guys flouted them. One day I landed and was hanging my head slightly
out the side and a big big glob of hot oil went right in my eye.
Last time I went flying in one of those without goggles.
Also, to adress your other thing about the windscreen. I lost part of a
screen and the greenhouse n a cub due to a fatigue crack finally giving way
on takeoff and the drag stopped us where we were altitude wise.
I have been told that most low powered cessnas and the like will not hold
altitude with the windscreen out.



Bertie

On Jan 3, 10:41*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
> > That's maybe pretty damned rare. If you've had your windshield knocked
> > out I'd like to hear about it.
>
> Also, to adress your other thing about the windscreen. I lost part of a
> screen and the greenhouse n a cub due to a fatigue crack finally giving way
> on takeoff and the drag stopped us where we were altitude wise.
> I have been told that most low powered cessnas and the like will not hold
> altitude with the windscreen out.
>
> Bertie

Bert, I was involved in a situation a couple of years ago where a kid
had the windscreen cave in on a Cessna 182. I had heard this could
happen on the 150/152 when they are overstressed, but I never heard of
it on the bigger Cessnas. Always wondered how common this is, any
other RAP fans had this happen?
Frank

F. Baum wrote:
> Bert, I was involved in a situation a couple of years ago where a kid
> had the windscreen cave in on a Cessna 182. I had heard this could
> happen on the 150/152 when they are overstressed, but I never heard of
> it on the bigger Cessnas. Always wondered how common this is, any
> other RAP fans had this happen?



No.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"F. Baum" > wrote in news:d3198dd0-1c86-44c3-bf15-
:

>
>

It's had to have happened. I remember reading an account of a 172, I think,
back when FLYING talked about airplanes. They hit a bird over long island
and lost the windscreen. They were unable to hold altitude and the doors
both popped open. They spent an unnecessary amount of time trying to close
them until realising that they were probably better open. they got down ok,
anyway.


Bertie

On Jan 4, 6:41 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

> I have been told that most low powered cessnas and the like will not hold
> altitude with the windscreen out.
>

Open the side windows.
Lessen the air dam

On Jan 4, 7:56*am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>
> It's had to have happened. I remember reading an account of a 172, I think,
> back when FLYING talked about airplanes. They hit a bird over long island
> and lost the windscreen. They were unable to hold altitude and the doors
> both popped open. They spent an unnecessary amount of time trying to close
> them until realising that they were probably better open. they got down ok,
> anyway.
>
The situation I had was kinda interesting. I was going from LAX to SLC
one night and we had just passed over LAS at 370. I had forgotten to
put the #2 radio to guard (Company policy after 9-11) noticed my
mistake and switched over . About two minutes later some young
gentleman screamed "Mayday" 3 times over 121.5 and I just about jumped
out of my socks. I have heard many pilots and crews declare
emergencies (And declared several myself), but never "Mayday". I
listened for a few and nobody answered, so I jumped in. The guy was
pretty worked up and he had a ton of backround noise. After 5 or six
transmisions back and forth he calmed down a bit and was able to
explain that he was lost somewhere East of Reno and the windscreen had
blown out and he was flying the plane ducked below the instrument
panel (Keep in mind this was middle of winter at night over the desert
with scattered snow showers in the area). I relayed this to LA Center
and the first thing they ask was "where is he", to which I had to say
we dont know. I spent the next ten minutes or so relaying for LA to
detemine his position and LA enlisted the help of Fallon who was able
to get a approximate fix from his transmissions. We were handed over
to Salt Lake and didnt find out what happened till we were on downwind
and the approach controller said "LA wanted to let you know they were
finally able to locate the plane and vector them to LCC where they
landed safely, and thanks". I found out later that they were met by
ambulences and they spent time in the hospital for hypothermia (SP?).
There were 3 people and the poor guy in the back seat was by far the
worst off.
What was cool about this (Other than everyone making it through) was
that LA Center emailed my companys HQ about what happend , and they
forwarded the email to my CPO and he put a letter in my file, the good
kind of course, and gave me two system wide positive space passes.
Other than this and a couple of bird strike stories, I had never heard
of a windscreen just poping out.
F Baum

F. Baum wrote:
> I had heard this could
>happen on the 150/152 when they are overstressed, but I never heard of
>it on the bigger Cessnas. Always wondered how common this is, any
>other RAP fans had this happen?

When I was a 172 owner, I had a Cessna service letter or service bulletin
in my file about the importance of windshield maintenance. It stated that
the 172 could not maintain altitude with the windshield out.

Soon after reading that, one of my fellow 172 owners at the airport proved
it. He managed to hit a turkey buzzard and took out the right side and part
of the left side of the windshield. He told me that the best he could do was
1200 fpm down, with full power applied. As I recall, he ended up landing (so
to speak) on the access road to a state park campground. He arrested some of
the descent rate by yanking back on the yoke at the last second, but the
plane destroyed itself when it ran through a low rock wall.

Apparently, knocking a big hole in the front of the 172's airframe makes
the fuselage act like a big, draggy parachute. I don't know if the larger
Cessnas have enough reserve power to overcome the drag.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200801/1

"F. Baum" > wrote in message ...
What was cool about this (Other than everyone making it through) was
that LA Center emailed my companys HQ about what happend , and they
forwarded the email to my CPO and he put a letter in my file, the good
kind of course, and gave me two system wide positive space passes.
Other than this and a couple of bird strike stories, I had never heard
of a windscreen just poping out.
F Baum

Thanks for the story, but gotta ask, what is a system wide positive space pass? Does it mean you can hop a flight and
not be on standby?

On Jan 5, 7:47*am, "Blueskies" > wrote:
>
> Thanks for the story, but gotta ask, what is a system wide positive space pass? Does it mean you can hop a flight and
> not be on standby?

Yup

"F. Baum" > wrote in
:

> On Jan 4, 7:56*am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's had to have happened. I remember reading an account of a 172, I
>> think
> ,
>> back when FLYING talked about airplanes. They hit a bird over long
>> island and lost the windscreen. They were unable to hold altitude and
>> the doors both popped open. They spent an unnecessary amount of time
>> trying to close
>
>> them until realising that they were probably better open. they got
>> down ok
> ,
>> anyway.
>>
> The situation I had was kinda interesting. I was going from LAX to SLC
> one night and we had just passed over LAS at 370. I had forgotten to
> put the #2 radio to guard (Company policy after 9-11) noticed my
> mistake and switched over . About two minutes later some young
> gentleman screamed "Mayday" 3 times over 121.5 and I just about jumped
> out of my socks. I have heard many pilots and crews declare
> emergencies (And declared several myself), but never "Mayday". I
> listened for a few and nobody answered, so I jumped in. The guy was
> pretty worked up and he had a ton of backround noise. After 5 or six
> transmisions back and forth he calmed down a bit and was able to
> explain that he was lost somewhere East of Reno and the windscreen had
> blown out and he was flying the plane ducked below the instrument
> panel (Keep in mind this was middle of winter at night over the desert
> with scattered snow showers in the area). I relayed this to LA Center
> and the first thing they ask was "where is he", to which I had to say
> we dont know. I spent the next ten minutes or so relaying for LA to
> detemine his position and LA enlisted the help of Fallon who was able
> to get a approximate fix from his transmissions. We were handed over
> to Salt Lake and didnt find out what happened till we were on downwind
> and the approach controller said "LA wanted to let you know they were
> finally able to locate the plane and vector them to LCC where they
> landed safely, and thanks". I found out later that they were met by
> ambulences and they spent time in the hospital for hypothermia (SP?).
> There were 3 people and the poor guy in the back seat was by far the
> worst off.
> What was cool about this (Other than everyone making it through) was
> that LA Center emailed my companys HQ about what happend , and they
> forwarded the email to my CPO and he put a letter in my file, the good
> kind of course, and gave me two system wide positive space passes.
> Other than this and a couple of bird strike stories, I had never heard
> of a windscreen just poping out.


Well, th ecub incident I mentioned earlier was one a bit like that,
though I only lost the very top part of the screen and most of the
greenhouse. The screen had several cracks in it all stop drilled and a
huge number of screws with large washers.
Your story does make a good case for the goggles though!

Brtie

On Jan 3, 9:03*pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:23:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:
> > For you open cockpit flyers: what are the RIGHT goggles to get?
>
> Having flown almost exclusively in open cockpits for the past 20+ years, I know
> a bit about them ... >
> Ron Wanttaja

Hey, that's what I was looking for. Thanks!

Looks like the tip of your nose might have been a bit cold in that
pic :)