Flyers,

I just passed the CFI Knowledge test today but I have some questions for the
group. Sure I could look these up, but lets stimulation some discussion.
Here are some questions that I do not know if I answered correctly. The
verbiage may not be word-for-word but you should get the idea:

1) In a rectangular course lesson, how do you (as an instructor or student)
determine the distance to fly from the rectangular field chosen?

a) The wind
b) The size of the field
c) The steepness of the bank required / desired

2) How is VMC affected by an increase in altitude?

a) VMC goes up
b) VMC goes down
c) VMC remains unchanged

3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
airspace you are required to?

a) contact ATC before taking off to receive permission to enter controlled
airspace
b) takeoff without permission, but contact ATC as soon as practical
c) contact is not necessary if you are departing the controlled airspace

4) What is the speed limit in Class B airspace

a) 200 Knots
b) 250 Knots
c) Unlimited

Kobra

Kobra wrote:
> Flyers,
> 1) In a rectangular course lesson, how do you (as an instructor or student)
> determine the distance to fly from the rectangular field chosen?
> c) The steepness of the bank required / desired

Don't want a wide pattern burning up fuel and keeping you out of glide
range, but you also don't want student pilots pulling 60-degree banks to
fly a tight pattern. (Pax probably don't appreciate it either.)

> 2) How is VMC affected by an increase in altitude?
> > b) VMC goes down.

Less thrust, although this still confuses me somewhat in terms of
indicated airspeed.


> 3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
> airspace you are required to?

> b) takeoff without permission, but contact ATC as soon as practical

Although, some satellite airports (Pearson, IIRC) have freqs posted to
contact ATC before departure.

> 4) What is the speed limit in Class B airspace
> b) 250 knots

Tricky question: BELOW Class B is 200 knots.

-c

On 08/04/08 10:54, gatt wrote:
> Kobra wrote:
>
>> 3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
>> airspace you are required to?
>
>> b) takeoff without permission, but contact ATC as soon as practical
>
> Although, some satellite airports (Pearson, IIRC) have freqs posted to
> contact ATC before departure.

It's been a while since I flew there (1985?), but at that time, it was
just a courtesy notification "... Cessna departing runway ...", and
not requesting a clearance.



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

>>> 3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
>>> airspace you are required to?
>>
>>> b) takeoff without permission, but contact ATC as soon as practical
>>
>> Although, some satellite airports (Pearson, IIRC) have freqs posted to
>> contact ATC before departure.
>
> It's been a while since I flew there (1985?), but at that time, it was
> just a courtesy notification "... Cessna departing runway ...", and
> not requesting a clearance.

Reason it states "as soon as practical" is because at some airports in the
Class C, you can not raise the Class C on the radio, until you get into the
air a little bit.
--
Jim in NC

gatt wrote:

>> 2) *How is VMC affected by an increase in altitude?
>> > b) VMC goes down.
>
> Less thrust, although this still confuses me somewhat in terms of
> indicated airspeed.

As I understand it, it's the following: The airplane's behavior is only
dependent on indicated airspeed, as that reflects the forces the air exerts
on the plane. So, at any given _indicated_ airspeed, the forces the rudder
is able to generate are the same. However, the forces the engines are able
to generate decrease with altitude. Thus, VMC indicated is going to be less
the higher you are.

The concept you are looking for is that there is less asymmetry
when you are higher in altitude.

Unless it's a turbocharged aircraft.

For 20 extra points, if you can get full sea level manifold pressure
in a TC
airplane, does Vmc decrease with an increase in altitude?

Bill Hale

On Aug 4, 2:47*pm, Michael Huber > wrote:
> gatt wrote:
> >> 2) *How is VMC affected by an increase in altitude?
> >> > b) VMC goes down.
>
> > Less thrust, although this still confuses me somewhat in terms of
> > indicated airspeed.
>
> As I understand it, it's the following: The airplane's behavior is only
> dependent on indicated airspeed, as that reflects the forces the air exerts
> on the plane. So, at any given _indicated_ airspeed, the forces the rudder
> is able to generate are the same. However, the forces the engines are able
> to generate decrease with altitude. Thus, VMC indicated is going to be less
> the higher you are.

"Kobra" > wrote in
:

> Flyers,
>
> I just passed the CFI Knowledge test today but I have some questions
> for the group. Sure I could look these up, but lets stimulation some
> discussion. Here are some questions that I do not know if I answered
> correctly. The verbiage may not be word-for-word but you should get
> the idea:
>
> 1) In a rectangular course lesson, how do you (as an instructor or
> student) determine the distance to fly from the rectangular field
> chosen?
>
> a) The wind
> b) The size of the field
> c) The steepness of the bank required / desired

Depends on the airplane, doesn't it?

try it on one field and if it's not working out, try it on another, but
for most trainers about a mile per leg is probably pretty good.

>
> 2) How is VMC affected by an increase in altitude?
>
> a) VMC goes up
> b) VMC goes down
> c) VMC remains unchanged

Best thing here is to think it through. All the elements... power,
aerodynamic authority, etc.. The answer is pretty obvious, really..


Bertie

Bill wrote:

> The concept you are looking for is that there is less asymmetry
> when you are higher in altitude.

Well yes, less engine power -> less asymmetry (in a non-centerline-thrust
multi-engine aircraft, but for everything else, this discussion is moot
anyway).

> Unless it's a turbocharged aircraft.

Obviously.

> For 20 extra points, if you can get full sea level manifold pressure
> in a TC
> airplane, does Vmc decrease with an increase in altitude?

I'm a bit out my depth here, but let me think. It would stay the same if the
engine thrust is constant. That implies two things:
- Constant engine power (which we more or less have, thanks to the
turbocharger)
- Constant prop efficiency. I do not know about that.

So, it really depends on what propellers do at altitude. If they do not
decrease in efficiency, Vmc (indicated) would be constant, if they do
decrease, it would sink (though less dramatically than a
not-turbocharged/normalized aircraft).

However, once we get so high that the prop tips start going supersonic at
normal operating speed (Mach 1 decreases with altitude), we dramatically
loose prop efficiency, so at least at that point, Vmc will start to sink.

So, then. Show me the answer sheet.

jeremy wrote:
> Kobra wrote:
>
>> 4) What is the speed limit in Class B airspace
>>
>> a) 200 Knots
>> b) 250 Knots
>> c) Unlimited
>
> That is an incomplete question; which country, what altitude?

I'm guessing he's asking about the FAA CFI test? <G>

If he is, the same question is on the Private, and as I recall,
Commercial written.

jeremy wrote:
>
> That would be 250 then. You have to watch it in Canada the definitions
> are different :-)

Does Canada call flight instructors CFI's and CFII's?

B A R R Y wrote
> Does Canada call flight instructors CFI's and CFII's?

Nor do we here in the USofA.

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor, Airplane Single Engine; Instrument Airplane

In article >,
"Kobra" > wrote:

> 3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
> airspace you are required to?

Are there non-towered airports inside Class C? I thought they all had
little cutouts like CCB has.

rg

Ron Garret wrote:
> In article >,
> "Kobra" > wrote:
>
>> 3) If taking off from an airport w/o a control tower inside Class C
>> airspace you are required to?
>
> Are there non-towered airports inside Class C? I thought they all had
> little cutouts like CCB has.


There's lots of private strips within the various class C's although it
doesn't matter if they're public or private.

Bob Moore wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote
>> Does Canada call flight instructors CFI's and CFII's?
>
> Nor do we here in the USofA.

I meant everyone in the US except for Bob Moore. <G>

On Aug 4, 3:53*pm, Michael Huber > wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > The concept you are looking for is that there is less asymmetry
> > when you are higher in altitude.
>
> Well yes, less engine power -> less asymmetry (in a non-centerline-thrust
> multi-engine aircraft, but for everything else, this discussion is moot
> anyway).
>
> > Unless it's a turbocharged aircraft.
>
> Obviously.
>
> > For 20 extra points, if you can get full sea level manifold pressure
> > in a TC
> > airplane, does Vmc decrease with an increase in altitude?
>
> I'm a bit out my depth here, but let me think. It would stay the same if the
> engine thrust is constant. That implies two things:
> - Constant engine power (which we more or less have, thanks to the
> turbocharger)
> - Constant prop efficiency. I do not know about that.
>
> So, it really depends on what propellers do at altitude. If they do not
> decrease in efficiency, Vmc (indicated) would be constant, if they do
> decrease, it would sink (though less dramatically than a
> not-turbocharged/normalized aircraft).
>
> However, once we get so high that the prop tips start going supersonic at
> normal operating speed (Mach 1 decreases with altitude), we dramatically
> loose prop efficiency, so at least at that point, Vmc will start to sink.
>
> So, then. Show me the answer sheet.

The horsepower drops off with altitude increase in a TC airplane
because the induction air temperature rises.

So VMC would go down at higher altitudes in TC airplanes.

As VMC has so many variables, this is of theoretical interest only

BH