Since the last one seemed to work pretty well, here's another
cross-posted shot at injecting some relevant content into the group.

My glider's condition inspection was due last month. When I bought my
share, one of the things I did as part of preparing to take ownership of
my share was to help out with last year's inspection (which gave me a
lot of valuable insight as to what everything looked like down in the
guts), meaning that it's now been a year since I bought into it.

So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. I was wary
going into it, partly because owning an aircraft was something new to
me, and partly because this particular glider is much higher performance
and more complex (flaps and retractable gear) than anything I'd flown
before.

The performance and complexity turned out not to be a problem. The
ASW-20 got built in large numbers and is considered a "classic" for good
reason. I found it to be responsive without being twitchy, to handle
docilely, and to have no real bad habits. It took me about six months
before I got used to the flaps (they can be used for landing, but their
primary purpose is to increase efficiency in normal flight, so I'm
constantly moving them around as I change speeds) but ultimately that
was also no big deal. And, while the machine experienced a gear-up
landing in the spring, it wasn't me, the guy with almost no experience
in retractables, but my partner, who has probably spent more time in the
air than I've spent alive.

Owning an aircraft also wasn't a problem, although it's certainly been
more work than simply using club aircraft. While I originally wanted to
own an entire glider outright, it turned out that buying into a
partnership was an incredibly smart move, because that gave me an
instant ready pool of knowledge. Assembly/disassembly, trailering,
inspection preparations, instrument usage, installing a gear warning
system, diagnosing an unresponsive airspeed indicator, all of this was
helped enormously by having partners (and also by having the seller
nearby).

Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about. So
far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year, and my share of
the costs have been around $700, which works out to under $13/hour.
Beats renting club aircraft, even ignoring the fact that mine is far,
far nicer than the club's. (Of course I'm cleverly ignoring opportunity
cost on the purchase price, depreciation, etc., and I still have to pay
the regular rate for tows, but still, it's nicely cheap.)

On the plus side, wow, what a machine. I love this glider the way a
normal person might love a woman. It's just an absolute joy to fly.

The performance is incredible. The book promises a 43:1 glide ratio, and
it delivers. At high speeds, it still flies practically flat. On a good
day I'll just set off cross country spontaneously, and only once in the
past year have I not made it back home. (And even then I still made it
to an airport.) Climb performance is also nice, although I wouldn't call
it a "floater". The flaps allow me to fly slow and turn tightly in a
thermal, more so than otherwise.

Landing performance is just breathtaking. Full flaps, full spoilers, and
Vne for that combination (which is a mere 65kts) gives me a 2:1 glide
slope and an incredibly short rollout. I haven't had to land it in a
field yet, but when that day comes, I have no worries about my ability
to squeeze it into a small one.

It's also pretty comfortable, which is important when I'm in it for 5+
hours at a time. The only downside is that the cockpit is kind of small,
so I can't stretch out much, especially on the legs and feet, but this
isn't a big deal. Performance and comfort were the two things that
really bugged me about the otherwise-great 1-26 that a good friend was
letting me fly before, and they're why I didn't buy a 1-26 of my own.

It's a piece of cake to assemble, which means I'm not afraid to fly it
on marginal days. I'm the envy of anyone assembling the club's Open
Cirrus, and of my friend who owns a Ventus, as my wings line up and lock
together like magnets every time. (For those of you who fly powered
aircraft, the idea of assembling your plane before you fly it every day
may sound strange and frightening. It's actually pretty easy to do, at
least if you have the right kind of glider. It only takes me about 30
minutes from start to finish, and most of that is doing fiddly little
bits like hooking up the controls or taping up the gaps on the wings and
tail.)

And of course, it's *mine*, which means that on a good day I can fly it
for as long as I'm wiling and able to keep it airborne, rather than
being called down after an hour or two like in club aircraft. I can also
take it cross country, something which is de facto not allowed in club
gliders. And, although I haven't taken advantage of this yet, I can take
it to other airports and fly it there.

55.4 hours and 35 flights in a year. A lot of those flights were
familiarization flights or just fun flights when conditions didn't
permit soaring, so my average soaring flight time is probably 2+ hours,
with the best one at nearly 6 hours. I haven't kept close track, but
I've made several cross country flights, totaling maybe 500 miles, which
is pretty good considering that I haven't been pushing it hard at all as
I get used to it.

All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
with it.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Dec 4, 12:28*am, Mike Ash > wrote:
> Since the last one seemed to work pretty well, here's another
> cross-posted shot at injecting some relevant content into the group.
>
> My glider's condition inspection was due last month. When I bought my
> share, one of the things I did as part of preparing to take ownership of
> my share was to help out with last year's inspection (which gave me a
> lot of valuable insight as to what everything looked like down in the
> guts), meaning that it's now been a year since I bought into it.
>
> So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. I was wary
> going into it, partly because owning an aircraft was something new to
> me, and partly because this particular glider is much higher performance
> and more complex (flaps and retractable gear) than anything I'd flown
> before.
>
> The performance and complexity turned out not to be a problem. The
> ASW-20 got built in large numbers and is considered a "classic" for good
> reason. I found it to be responsive without being twitchy, to handle
> docilely, and to have no real bad habits. It took me about six months
> before I got used to the flaps (they can be used for landing, but their
> primary purpose is to increase efficiency in normal flight, so I'm
> constantly moving them around as I change speeds) but ultimately that
> was also no big deal. And, while the machine experienced a gear-up
> landing in the spring, it wasn't me, the guy with almost no experience
> in retractables, but my partner, who has probably spent more time in the
> air than I've spent alive.
>
> Owning an aircraft also wasn't a problem, although it's certainly been
> more work than simply using club aircraft. While I originally wanted to
> own an entire glider outright, it turned out that buying into a
> partnership was an incredibly smart move, because that gave me an
> instant ready pool of knowledge. Assembly/disassembly, trailering,
> inspection preparations, instrument usage, installing a gear warning
> system, diagnosing an unresponsive airspeed indicator, all of this was
> helped enormously by having partners (and also by having the seller
> nearby).
>
> Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about. So
> far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year, and my share of
> the costs have been around $700, which works out to under $13/hour.
> Beats renting club aircraft, even ignoring the fact that mine is far,
> far nicer than the club's. (Of course I'm cleverly ignoring opportunity
> cost on the purchase price, depreciation, etc., and I still have to pay
> the regular rate for tows, but still, it's nicely cheap.)
>
> On the plus side, wow, what a machine. I love this glider the way a
> normal person might love a woman. It's just an absolute joy to fly.
>
> The performance is incredible. The book promises a 43:1 glide ratio, and
> it delivers. At high speeds, it still flies practically flat. On a good
> day I'll just set off cross country spontaneously, and only once in the
> past year have I not made it back home. (And even then I still made it
> to an airport.) Climb performance is also nice, although I wouldn't call
> it a "floater". The flaps allow me to fly slow and turn tightly in a
> thermal, more so than otherwise.
>
> Landing performance is just breathtaking. Full flaps, full spoilers, and
> Vne for that combination (which is a mere 65kts) gives me a 2:1 glide
> slope and an incredibly short rollout. I haven't had to land it in a
> field yet, but when that day comes, I have no worries about my ability
> to squeeze it into a small one.
>
> It's also pretty comfortable, which is important when I'm in it for 5+
> hours at a time. The only downside is that the cockpit is kind of small,
> so I can't stretch out much, especially on the legs and feet, but this
> isn't a big deal. Performance and comfort were the two things that
> really bugged me about the otherwise-great 1-26 that a good friend was
> letting me fly before, and they're why I didn't buy a 1-26 of my own.
>
> It's a piece of cake to assemble, which means I'm not afraid to fly it
> on marginal days. I'm the envy of anyone assembling the club's Open
> Cirrus, and of my friend who owns a Ventus, as my wings line up and lock
> together like magnets every time. (For those of you who fly powered
> aircraft, the idea of assembling your plane before you fly it every day
> may sound strange and frightening. It's actually pretty easy to do, at
> least if you have the right kind of glider. It only takes me about 30
> minutes from start to finish, and most of that is doing fiddly little
> bits like hooking up the controls or taping up the gaps on the wings and
> tail.)
>
> And of course, it's *mine*, which means that on a good day I can fly it
> for as long as I'm wiling and able to keep it airborne, rather than
> being called down after an hour or two like in club aircraft. I can also
> take it cross country, something which is de facto not allowed in club
> gliders. And, although I haven't taken advantage of this yet, I can take
> it to other airports and fly it there.
>
> 55.4 hours and 35 flights in a year. A lot of those flights were
> familiarization flights or just fun flights when conditions didn't
> permit soaring, so my average soaring flight time is probably 2+ hours,
> with the best one at nearly 6 hours. I haven't kept close track, but
> I've made several cross country flights, totaling maybe 500 miles, which
> is pretty good considering that I haven't been pushing it hard at all as
> I get used to it.
>
> All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
> anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
> things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
> with it.
>
> --
> Mike Ash
> Radio Free Earth
> Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Sounds like everything's going according
to plan. You're a better man than me if you
can share ownership. Incidental damage would
really tick me off.

Don't lose your ability to enjoy passing time
doing something for fun. I'm getting to where it
seems necessary to quickly "get there" and then
achieve something.

---
Mark

On 12/3/2009 9:28 PM, Mike Ash wrote:
> Since the last one seemed to work pretty well, here's another
> cross-posted shot at injecting some relevant content into the group.
>

Wow! Thanks for the write-up, Mike. Gliders is one aspect of flying
that I'm still considering and sure love reading of your exploits.

Due to finances, I've had to reduce the amount of flying that I'm
doing, but just went out the other day to maintain my currency and
had a really wonderful flying day. It made me realize that I really
don't want to let anything get in the way of my ability to fly!

Thanks again for sharing. By the way, I think you should have
included rec.aviation.owning.

Best Regards,


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Member, Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

In article >,
Mark Hansen > wrote:

> On 12/3/2009 9:28 PM, Mike Ash wrote:
> > Since the last one seemed to work pretty well, here's another
> > cross-posted shot at injecting some relevant content into the group.
> >
>
> Wow! Thanks for the write-up, Mike. Gliders is one aspect of flying
> that I'm still considering and sure love reading of your exploits.
>
> Due to finances, I've had to reduce the amount of flying that I'm
> doing, but just went out the other day to maintain my currency and
> had a really wonderful flying day. It made me realize that I really
> don't want to let anything get in the way of my ability to fly!
>
> Thanks again for sharing. By the way, I think you should have
> included rec.aviation.owning.

I didn't think of including .owning, since I don't subscribe to it. I'll
have to check it out, since it *is* appropriate to my situation now....

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

In article
>,
Mark > wrote:

> Sounds like everything's going according
> to plan. You're a better man than me if you
> can share ownership. Incidental damage would
> really tick me off.

It helps that, of my two partners, one never flies it, and the other is
so vastly and incredibly more experienced than I am that I can only look
up to him.

I remember very clearly when he landed gear up, as I was the club's duty
officer that day and watched it happen. I even argued with him on the
radio while he was on final about it, because he was absolutely
convinced it was down until he had ground out a long white stripe on the
runway.

I was shocked, and a little angry, and worried about his mental state.
But my main reaction was, if it can happen to him, it can *definitely*
happen to me.... And thus I enthusiastically helped out with the
installation of our gear warning system after we got it back from the
shop.

> Don't lose your ability to enjoy passing time
> doing something for fun. I'm getting to where it
> seems necessary to quickly "get there" and then
> achieve something.

Well, a push to "get there" is hard to maintain in a glider. On the
other hand, I have noticed that, like a drug, I seem to need more and
more achievement as time goes buy. I remember back when soaring for
30-40 minutes was fantastic. Now a 3-hour flight is just kind of ho-hum,
especially if I only stay local. Still, I try to keep in mind relative
achievement, that if I stay up for 30 minutes on an otherwise dead day,
that's a major accomplishment too. So far, so good....

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Mike Ash wrote:
> Since the last one seemed to work pretty well, here's another
> cross-posted shot at injecting some relevant content into the group.
>
> My glider's condition inspection was due last month. When I bought my
> share, one of the things I did as part of preparing to take ownership of
> my share was to help out with last year's inspection (which gave me a
> lot of valuable insight as to what everything looked like down in the
> guts), meaning that it's now been a year since I bought into it.
>
> So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. I was wary
> going into it, partly because owning an aircraft was something new to
> me, and partly because this particular glider is much higher performance
> and more complex (flaps and retractable gear) than anything I'd flown
> before.
>
> The performance and complexity turned out not to be a problem. The
> ASW-20 got built in large numbers and is considered a "classic" for good
> reason. I found it to be responsive without being twitchy, to handle
> docilely, and to have no real bad habits. It took me about six months
> before I got used to the flaps (they can be used for landing, but their
> primary purpose is to increase efficiency in normal flight, so I'm
> constantly moving them around as I change speeds) but ultimately that
> was also no big deal. And, while the machine experienced a gear-up
> landing in the spring, it wasn't me, the guy with almost no experience
> in retractables, but my partner, who has probably spent more time in the
> air than I've spent alive.
>
> Owning an aircraft also wasn't a problem, although it's certainly been
> more work than simply using club aircraft. While I originally wanted to
> own an entire glider outright, it turned out that buying into a
> partnership was an incredibly smart move, because that gave me an
> instant ready pool of knowledge. Assembly/disassembly, trailering,
> inspection preparations, instrument usage, installing a gear warning
> system, diagnosing an unresponsive airspeed indicator, all of this was
> helped enormously by having partners (and also by having the seller
> nearby).
>
> Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about. So
> far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year, and my share of
> the costs have been around $700, which works out to under $13/hour.
> Beats renting club aircraft, even ignoring the fact that mine is far,
> far nicer than the club's. (Of course I'm cleverly ignoring opportunity
> cost on the purchase price, depreciation, etc., and I still have to pay
> the regular rate for tows, but still, it's nicely cheap.)
>
> On the plus side, wow, what a machine. I love this glider the way a
> normal person might love a woman. It's just an absolute joy to fly.
>
> The performance is incredible. The book promises a 43:1 glide ratio, and
> it delivers. At high speeds, it still flies practically flat. On a good
> day I'll just set off cross country spontaneously, and only once in the
> past year have I not made it back home. (And even then I still made it
> to an airport.) Climb performance is also nice, although I wouldn't call
> it a "floater". The flaps allow me to fly slow and turn tightly in a
> thermal, more so than otherwise.
>
> Landing performance is just breathtaking. Full flaps, full spoilers, and
> Vne for that combination (which is a mere 65kts) gives me a 2:1 glide
> slope and an incredibly short rollout. I haven't had to land it in a
> field yet, but when that day comes, I have no worries about my ability
> to squeeze it into a small one.
>
> It's also pretty comfortable, which is important when I'm in it for 5+
> hours at a time. The only downside is that the cockpit is kind of small,
> so I can't stretch out much, especially on the legs and feet, but this
> isn't a big deal. Performance and comfort were the two things that
> really bugged me about the otherwise-great 1-26 that a good friend was
> letting me fly before, and they're why I didn't buy a 1-26 of my own.
>
> It's a piece of cake to assemble, which means I'm not afraid to fly it
> on marginal days. I'm the envy of anyone assembling the club's Open
> Cirrus, and of my friend who owns a Ventus, as my wings line up and lock
> together like magnets every time. (For those of you who fly powered
> aircraft, the idea of assembling your plane before you fly it every day
> may sound strange and frightening. It's actually pretty easy to do, at
> least if you have the right kind of glider. It only takes me about 30
> minutes from start to finish, and most of that is doing fiddly little
> bits like hooking up the controls or taping up the gaps on the wings and
> tail.)
>
> And of course, it's *mine*, which means that on a good day I can fly it
> for as long as I'm wiling and able to keep it airborne, rather than
> being called down after an hour or two like in club aircraft. I can also
> take it cross country, something which is de facto not allowed in club
> gliders. And, although I haven't taken advantage of this yet, I can take
> it to other airports and fly it there.
>
> 55.4 hours and 35 flights in a year. A lot of those flights were
> familiarization flights or just fun flights when conditions didn't
> permit soaring, so my average soaring flight time is probably 2+ hours,
> with the best one at nearly 6 hours. I haven't kept close track, but
> I've made several cross country flights, totaling maybe 500 miles, which
> is pretty good considering that I haven't been pushing it hard at all as
> I get used to it.
>
> All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
> anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
> things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
> with it.
>

Nice report. I had my plane for 12 years and I agree with you. It was
available with I wanted and didn't have to worry about anyone else. Plus
I did owner assisted annuals and all repairs (with A&P/IA oversight). I
KNEW my plane inside and out. In 2001 we installed a factory overhauled
Lycoming O-360.

You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
fancy Garmin item)

I wish I still had it. D*** medical....

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

In article >,
Ross > wrote:

> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
> fancy Garmin item)

I expect to be able to sell my share for the same price I bought it for.
This means depreciation will roughly follow inflation, which is not a
lot, but it adds up.

The big worry is a refinish job at some point in the distant future. My
gelcoat is in fantastic shape considering that it's almost 25 years old,
but someday it will have to be redone, and the cost of that is likely to
be 1/3rd-1/2 of the total cost of the aircraft.

> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....

Sorry to hear about that. I know it's not the same thing at all, but one
of the benefits of flying gliders is that the only medical exam you have
to go through is asking yourself in the morning, "Am I fit to fly?
Yep...."

I've watched many fellow glider pilots who also fly powered aircraft
lose their medicals and struggle to get them back, and it's so
frustrating. One lost his medical due to a Hepatitis C infection! He was
robust, healthy, continued to fly gliders all throughout with no
problems, but somehow this disqualified him. He was fortunate enough to
be cured of the infection and finally got his medical back, but it's
just all so crazy.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:

> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
> fancy Garmin item)
>
> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>
> --
>
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> Sold :(
> KSWI-

What about going LSA?

---
Mark

On Dec 5, 7:39*am, Mark > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>
> > You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
> > it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
> > I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
> > the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
> > fancy Garmin item)
>
> > I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>
> > --
>
> > Regards, Ross
> > C-172F 180HP
> > Sold :(
> > KSWI-
>
> What about going LSA?

We have a different set of medical requirements for Microlite/
Ultralites.
A lot of older pilots here who have failed their medicals go flying
microlites

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:57:38 -0500, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:54 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>
>> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>>
>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>>> fancy Garmin item)
>>>
>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards, Ross
>>> C-172F 180HP
>>> Sold :(
>>> KSWI-
>>
>> What about going JLA?
>>
>> ---
>> Markie aka Wonder Woman
>
> JLA? Did youmean the *Justice League of America*, Mark(ie)?
>
> <snickers galore>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ykd8ofh or
>
> <http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:pHzTjEWChHYJ:www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D30617549+blueriverday%40yahoo. com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
>
> Don't you think that Wonder Woman's red pooseypants clash with Aquaman's
> flippers?
>
> *BWahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*

Is this guy 12?

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:20:58 -0500, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:32:23 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>
> "Mark" > wrote:
>
>> I shoot from the hip
>> Don¢t ya quibble or quip
>> Or I¢ll pop that smile
>> Right off o yo lip
>> You ain¢t the one
>> Sayin sink or float
>> You ain¢t the bitch
>> That¢s Drivin this boat
>> Jus keep on whinin
>> And I¢ll sink this ship
>> I told you once
>> I shoot from the hip
>> I shoot from the hip
>
>> (kinda sings like "blue suede shoes"
>> but rougher)
>
>> ---
>> Mark
>> http://www.nntpnews.net/f4508/re-new-collective-poem-i-shoot-hip-5674331/

> lol
>
> Hey, Markie, you're soooooooo hip. lol

WTF?

Like "Blue Suede Shoes" only /rougher/?

Jeffrey Bloss > wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:54 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>
>> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>>
>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I
>>> sold it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost
>>> twice what I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH
>>> engine, and during the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR
>>> GPS. (No, not any fancy Garmin item)
>>>
>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards, Ross
>>> C-172F 180HP
>>> Sold :(
>>> KSWI-
>>
>> What about going JLA?
>>
>> ---
>> Markie aka Wonder Woman
>
> JLA? Did youmean the *Justice League of America*, Mark(ie)?
>
> <snickers galore>

Hey BOZO - you just ****ed yourself. You DO realize that you've just
committed libel by deliberately attributing your own text to someone else?
He now has a bonafide reason to subpoena the records of eternal-
september.org as well as the ISP that owns the IP address the org recorded,
thereby finding out who you are and sue you for said libel?

I know you've been doing that illegal crap with other posts, so just wanted
to make clear to you that thanks to various archives, there is now
permanent evidence of your libel all around the Internet and it is just a
matter of time whether anyone takes action.

My advice to you is before you and your family lose what little finances
they have to legal action that you contact a lawyer and ask them just how
far out you've hung your ass.

On 12/4/2009 10:39 AM, Mark wrote:
> On Dec 4, 1:03 pm, Ross > wrote:
>
>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>> fancy Garmin item)
>>
>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards, Ross
>> C-172F 180HP
>> Sold :(
>> KSWI-
>
> What about going LSA?
>
> ---
> Mark
>

LSA requires that you not have had an FAA medical revoked. One can
still fly Ultralights (as defined in Part 103), but the vehicles are
limited (single-seat, no more than 5 gallons of gas, no more than
254lbs, etc.).

This is specific to the U.S. Other countries have different regulations.

On Dec 5, 8:59*am, Subterranean Cinema > wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:57:38 -0500, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:54 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>
> >> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>
> >>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
> >>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
> >>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
> >>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
> >>> fancy Garmin item)
>
> >>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>
> >>> --
>
> >>> Regards, Ross
> >>> C-172F 180HP
> >>> Sold :(
> >>> KSWI-
>
> >> What about going JLA?
>
> >> ---
> >> Markie aka Wonder Woman
>
> > JLA? Did youmean the *Justice League of America*, Mark(ie)?
>
> > <snickers galore>
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/ykd8ofhor
>
> > <http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:pHzTjEWChHYJ:www.jlaforums.com/vi...>
>
> > Don't you think that Wonder Woman's red pooseypants clash with Aquaman's
> > flippers?
>

> > *BWahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*
>
> Is this guy 12?


IQ points or age ?

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:09:53 -0800 (PST), george wrote:

> On Dec 5, 8:59*am, Subterranean Cinema > wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:57:38 -0500, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
>>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:54 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>>
>>>> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>>
>>>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>>>>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>>>>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>>>>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>>>>> fancy Garmin item)
>>
>>>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>
>>>>> --
>>
>>>>> Regards, Ross
>>>>> C-172F 180HP
>>>>> Sold :(
>>>>> KSWI-
>>
>>>> What about going JLA?
>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Markie aka Wonder Woman
>>
>>> JLA? Did youmean the *Justice League of America*, Mark(ie)?
>>
>>> <snickers galore>
>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/ykd8ofhor
>>
>>> <http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:pHzTjEWChHYJ:www.jlaforums.com/vi...>
>>
>>> Don't you think that Wonder Woman's red pooseypants clash with Aquaman's
>>> flippers?
>>
>
>>> *BWahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*
>>
>> Is this guy 12?
>
> IQ points or age ?

Either. Even *I* know the Justice League of America is passe'.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 17:27:22 -0500, Subterranean Cinema wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:09:53 -0800 (PST), george wrote:
>
>> On Dec 5, 8:59*am, Subterranean Cinema > wrote:
>>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:57:38 -0500, Jeffrey Bloss wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:54 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 4, 1:03*pm, Ross > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>>>>>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>>>>>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>>>>>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>>>>>> fancy Garmin item)
>>>
>>>>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Ross
>>>>>> C-172F 180HP
>>>>>> Sold :(
>>>>>> KSWI-
>>>
>>>>> What about going JLA?
>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Markie aka Wonder Woman
>>>
>>>> JLA? Did youmean the *Justice League of America*, Mark(ie)?
>>>
>>>> <snickers galore>
>>>
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ykd8ofhor
>>>
>>>> <http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:pHzTjEWChHYJ:www.jlaforums.com/vi...>
>>>
>>>> Don't you think that Wonder Woman's red pooseypants clash with Aquaman's
>>>> flippers?
>>>
>>
>>>> *BWahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*
>>>
>>> Is this guy 12?
>>
>> IQ points or age ?
>
> Either. Even *I* know the Justice League of America is passe'.

I liked the kid. He turned out to be a turd.

Fact.
--
Live To Spend It

On Dec 4, 3:49*pm, Mark Hansen > wrote:
> On 12/4/2009 10:39 AM, Mark wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 1:03 pm, Ross > wrote:
>
> >> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
> >> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
> >> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
> >> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
> >> fancy Garmin item)
>
> >> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>
> >> --
>
> >> Regards, Ross
> >> C-172F 180HP
> >> Sold :(
> >> KSWI-
>
> > What about going LSA?
>
> > ---
> > Mark
>
> LSA requires that you not have had an FAA medical revoked. One can
> still fly Ultralights (as defined in Part 103), but the vehicles are
> limited (single-seat, no more than 5 gallons of gas, no more than
> 254lbs, etc.).
>
> This is specific to the U.S. Other countries have different regulations.

Thanks, I knew that, but then I wasn't sure if his
had been revoked or he'd just been inactive and knew
he wouldn't pass a new medical. I've run across a few
pilots who had to make a transition to LSA, which is
something I've had on my mind lately, i.e., buying an
Arion Lightning (138mph cruise), and knowing that I
can fly it for the next 25 years if I'm able.

---
Mark

Mike Ash wrote:
>
> So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. /snip/
> Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about. So
> far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year /snip/
>
> All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
> anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
> things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
> with it.
>

For me it's just been a month or two. A C-150, like I owned 20 years ago
- and had to sell when I was out of work then.
Though this time I paid twice as much as I sold for back then, this
plane is in better shape, though only a year younger than the other one
- in better shape now at least. It had been flown to Dallas from
Wisconsin - which said something for it.

But the trial flight was a trial: water in the pitot, so the ASI was all
over the place - mostly slow - the transponder folded up, the loran (!)
was posted unserviceable, the radio was flakey, the mag compass was out
of fluid, several fixings were missing from the cowl, a floppy external
door handle, a missing ELT antenna.....

All fixed up quite quickly or replaced - at no great expense.
And here I am with ten plus hours of familiarization in it and finding
my comfort level again. Why did I wait so long? I ask myself.

I am full of joy - and though joy may not last for ever, it's enough
to taste it presently... The best moment was turning up unannounced at
the home field, and finding an open front tee hangar to keep it in,at a
price I could afford. The scariest moment to date was looking up the
price of a new door latch from Cessna - $1200 !! (no kidding)
...but there's always another way, even if salvage airframes have largely
gone away as a parts source. The happiest moment is deciding on a sunny
afternoon, to go flying, without much fuss. I am interested to see
what happens at my first annual, in four months: the days of $200
annuals are fading rapidly from memory, I reckon.

Brian W

On Dec 4, 9:03*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> Mike Ash wrote:
>
> > So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. */snip/
> > Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about. So
> > far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year */snip/
>
> > All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
> > anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
> > things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
> > with it.
>
> For me it's just been a month or two. A C-150, like I owned 20 years ago
> - and had to sell when I was out of work then.
> Though *this time I paid twice as much as I sold for back then, this
> plane is in better shape, though only a year younger than the other one
> * - *in better shape now at least. *It had been flown to Dallas from
> Wisconsin - which said something for it.
>
> But the trial flight was a trial: water in the pitot, so the ASI was all
> over the place - mostly slow - the transponder folded up, the loran (!)
> was posted unserviceable, the radio was flakey, the mag compass was out
> of fluid, several fixings were missing from the cowl, a floppy external
> door handle, a missing ELT antenna.....
>
> All fixed up quite quickly or replaced - at no great expense.
> And here I am with ten plus *hours of familiarization in it and finding
> my comfort level again. Why did I wait so long? I ask myself.
>
> I am full of joy - and though joy may not last for ever, it's enough
> to taste it presently... The best moment was turning up unannounced at
> the home field, and finding an open front tee hangar to keep it in,at a
> price I could afford. *The scariest moment to date was looking up the
> price of a new door latch from Cessna - $1200 !! (no kidding)
> ..but there's always another way, even if salvage airframes have largely
> gone away as a parts source. The happiest moment is deciding on a sunny
> afternoon, to go flying, without much fuss. * * I am interested to see
> what happens at my first annual, in four months: the days of $200
> annuals are fading rapidly from memory, I reckon.
>
> Brian W

The conventional wisdom, "If you have to ask how much, you can't
afford it" isn't always true! You already have the pleasure of knowing
the airplane's there whenever you want it -- absent it being grounded
of course.

Speaking of conventional wisdom, what did you figure to be the break
even point between renting and owning something like a C150? My
'indifference point" many years ago (my language for the level of
usage where renting v owning were equal pains in the butt) was about
125 hours a year for a complex single.

a wrote:
>...what did you figure to be the break
> even point between renting and owning something like a C150? My
> 'indifference point" many years ago (my language for the level of
> usage where renting v owning were equal pains in the butt) was about
> 125 hours a year for a complex single.

The FBO owner mentioned he'd sold his C150 years ago - the customers
were getting too heavy to hold gross with decent fuel, he said.
For my biennial review, it was $150 for a one hour checkout with a
172 and instructor. That was way too much for my taste. But its
strange how $150 seems like nothing when putting another loran in or
whatever, if it's your own plane. There is just no comparison for me. I
expect to do 40 hours a year on up in it....

Brian W

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:43:57 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:

> I've run across a few
> pilots who had to make a transition to LSA, which is
> something I've had on my mind lately, i.e., buying an
> Arion Lightning (138mph cruise), and knowing that I
> can fly it for the next 25 years if I'm able.
>
> ---

Mark(ie) in misc.writing, you wrote "I'm retired now, having spent my
first 65 years working to make my fortune."

Expect to live and fly to 90, Mark(ie) you lying buffoon?
--
_?_ Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
(@ @) Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-oOO-(_)--OOo-------------------------------[ Groucho Marx ]--
grok! Devoted Microsoft User

george wrote:
> On Dec 5, 7:39 am, Mark > wrote:
>> On Dec 4, 1:03 pm, Ross > wrote:
>>
>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>>> fancy Garmin item)
>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>> --
>>> Regards, Ross
>>> C-172F 180HP
>>> Sold :(
>>> KSWI-
>> What about going LSA?
>
> We have a different set of medical requirements for Microlite/
> Ultralites.
> A lot of older pilots here who have failed their medicals go flying
> microlites
>

Do you know still have to self "certify" that you are fit to fly? In the
US if you fail your medical you cannot fly LSA. If you let your medical
expire and do not renew it then you can fly LSA. But you still have to
self certify.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

Mark wrote:
> On Dec 4, 3:49 pm, Mark Hansen > wrote:
>> On 12/4/2009 10:39 AM, Mark wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 4, 1:03 pm, Ross > wrote:
>>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I sold
>>>> it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost twice what
>>>> I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH engine, and during
>>>> the time all avionics were OH and I did add a IFR GPS. (No, not any
>>>> fancy Garmin item)
>>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>>> --
>>>> Regards, Ross
>>>> C-172F 180HP
>>>> Sold :(
>>>> KSWI-
>>> What about going LSA?
>>> ---
>>> Mark
>> LSA requires that you not have had an FAA medical revoked. One can
>> still fly Ultralights (as defined in Part 103), but the vehicles are
>> limited (single-seat, no more than 5 gallons of gas, no more than
>> 254lbs, etc.).
>>
>> This is specific to the U.S. Other countries have different regulations.
>
> Thanks, I knew that, but then I wasn't sure if his
> had been revoked or he'd just been inactive and knew
> he wouldn't pass a new medical. I've run across a few
> pilots who had to make a transition to LSA, which is
> something I've had on my mind lately, i.e., buying an
> Arion Lightning (138mph cruise), and knowing that I
> can fly it for the next 25 years if I'm able.
>
> ---
> Mark

I let mine expire.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

brian whatcott wrote:
> Mike Ash wrote:
>>
>> So far I do not regret my decision to purchase in the least. /snip/
>> Money wasn't a worry to me, but it's still something I thought about.
>> So far, so good. I put 55.4 hours on it over the past year /snip/
>>
>> All in all, it's been a great year. All of the good things that I
>> anticipated in owning an aircraft have come true, and none of the bad
>> things. It was a great choice, and I'm looking forward to another year
>> with it.
>>
>
> For me it's just been a month or two. A C-150, like I owned 20 years ago
> - and had to sell when I was out of work then.
> Though this time I paid twice as much as I sold for back then, this
> plane is in better shape, though only a year younger than the other one
> - in better shape now at least. It had been flown to Dallas from
> Wisconsin - which said something for it.
>
> But the trial flight was a trial: water in the pitot, so the ASI was all
> over the place - mostly slow - the transponder folded up, the loran (!)
> was posted unserviceable, the radio was flakey, the mag compass was out
> of fluid, several fixings were missing from the cowl, a floppy external
> door handle, a missing ELT antenna.....
>
> All fixed up quite quickly or replaced - at no great expense.
> And here I am with ten plus hours of familiarization in it and finding
> my comfort level again. Why did I wait so long? I ask myself.
>
> I am full of joy - and though joy may not last for ever, it's enough
> to taste it presently... The best moment was turning up unannounced at
> the home field, and finding an open front tee hangar to keep it in,at a
> price I could afford. The scariest moment to date was looking up the
> price of a new door latch from Cessna - $1200 !! (no kidding)
> ..but there's always another way, even if salvage airframes have largely
> gone away as a parts source. The happiest moment is deciding on a sunny
> afternoon, to go flying, without much fuss. I am interested to see
> what happens at my first annual, in four months: the days of $200
> annuals are fading rapidly from memory, I reckon.
>
> Brian W

Depends on the A&P/IA and how much work you want to do. Having done
owner assisted annuals the 12 years I owned my Cessna, I found that
there is a lot of grunt work that has to be done and I did it. I also
learned everything about the inside and outside of my plane. I got my
hands dirty and grease under my finger nails and loved every bit of it.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

brian whatcott wrote:
> a wrote:
>> ...what did you figure to be the break
>> even point between renting and owning something like a C150? My
>> 'indifference point" many years ago (my language for the level of
>> usage where renting v owning were equal pains in the butt) was about
>> 125 hours a year for a complex single.
>
> The FBO owner mentioned he'd sold his C150 years ago - the customers
> were getting too heavy to hold gross with decent fuel, he said.
> For my biennial review, it was $150 for a one hour checkout with a
> 172 and instructor. That was way too much for my taste. But its
> strange how $150 seems like nothing when putting another loran in or
> whatever, if it's your own plane. There is just no comparison for me. I
> expect to do 40 hours a year on up in it....
>
> Brian W

When this group had all the regulars there use to be the AMU. I think it
was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your $150.00
was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

Jeffrey Bloss wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:08:17 -0600, Ross wrote:
>
>> george wrote:
>>> On Dec 5, 7:39 am, Mark > wrote:
>>>> On Dec 4, 1:03 pm, Ross > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You made a comment about depreciation. Mine did not depreciate. I
>>>>> sold it this year and even in a down economy I sold it for almost
>>>>> twice what I bought it for. Not bad. Like I said, it got a OH
>>>>> engine, and during the time all avionics were OH and I did add a
>>>>> IFR GPS. (No, not any fancy Garmin item)
>>>>> I wish I still had it. D*** medical....
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards, Ross
>>>>> C-172F 180HP
>>>>> Sold :(
>>>>> KSWI-
>>>> What about going LSA?
>>>
>>> We have a different set of medical requirements for Microlite/
>>> Ultralites. A lot of older pilots here who have failed their
>>> medicals go flying microlites
>>>
>>
>> Do you know still have to self "certify" that you are fit to fly? In
>> the US if you fail your medical you cannot fly LSA. If you let your
>> medical expire and do not renew it then you can fly LSA. But you
>> still have to self certify.
>
> This whole LSA medical certification is a nightmare, all this don't
> tell-fly crap is absurd. But so is kids flying and they are up in the
> skies as well.
>
> I'm not sure whether it is the spirit of the FARs or the regs itself
> that say if you know you have a medically limiting condition, then you
> should ground yourself from flying anything. Maybe even kites. lol

You forgot to mention being grounded from flying your model aircraft.

Just an oversight was it?

Ross wrote:
> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your $150.00
> was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>

In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...

Brian W

In article >,
Ross > wrote:

> brian whatcott wrote:
> > a wrote:
> >> ...what did you figure to be the break
> >> even point between renting and owning something like a C150? My
> >> 'indifference point" many years ago (my language for the level of
> >> usage where renting v owning were equal pains in the butt) was about
> >> 125 hours a year for a complex single.
> >
> > The FBO owner mentioned he'd sold his C150 years ago - the customers
> > were getting too heavy to hold gross with decent fuel, he said.
> > For my biennial review, it was $150 for a one hour checkout with a
> > 172 and instructor. That was way too much for my taste. But its
> > strange how $150 seems like nothing when putting another loran in or
> > whatever, if it's your own plane. There is just no comparison for me. I
> > expect to do 40 hours a year on up in it....
> >
> > Brian W
>
> When this group had all the regulars there use to be the AMU. I think it
> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your $150.00
> was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.

I've read and heard the AMU referenced in many places outside this
group, so I think it's more widespread than that. Certainly can be
helpful to ease the pain of aviation-related expenses....

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:40:06 -0600, brian whatcott
> wrote:

In powerboat context..

"BOAT" means.

"Bring On Another Thousand"

I know this, and..

I also know what an "AMU" is...

:)

Dave



>Ross wrote:
>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your $150.00
>> was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>
>
>In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>
>Brian W

brian whatcott wrote:
> Ross wrote:
>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>
>
> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>
> Brian W

What kind of sailboat do you own?

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:40:06 -0600, brian whatcott
> > wrote:
>
> In powerboat context..
>
> "BOAT" means.
>
> "Bring On Another Thousand"
>
> I know this, and..
>
> I also know what an "AMU" is...
>
> :)
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>> Ross wrote:
>>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your $150.00
>>> was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>>
>> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>>
>> Brian W
>

But with a boat you do not need an A&P/IA to sign off your work. I had a
21' Chriscraft for several years and did all the work myself.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

On Dec 9, 12:45*pm, Ross > wrote:
> brian whatcott wrote:
> > Ross wrote:
> >> ... *there use to be the AMU. I think it
> >> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
> >> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>
> > In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>
> > Brian W
>
> What kind of sailboat do you own?
>
> --
>
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> Sold :(
> KSWI

The O'Day sloop (25 foot swing keel) was simply not expensive -- the
biggest annual cost was a pier side docking, and that was a bit over
$1000. "Flight" planning for 5 knots took a different mindset though.

a wrote:
> On Dec 9, 12:45 pm, Ross > wrote:
>> brian whatcott wrote:
>>> Ross wrote:
>>>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>>>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
>>>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>>> Brian W
>> What kind of sailboat do you own?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards, Ross
>> C-172F 180HP
>> Sold :(
>> KSWI
>
> The O'Day sloop (25 foot swing keel) was simply not expensive -- the
> biggest annual cost was a pier side docking, and that was a bit over
> $1000. "Flight" planning for 5 knots took a different mindset though.

I used to have a 21 foot Chriscraft power boat. My aircraft (to keep
aviation content) mechanic has the building rights to the Valiant
Yachts. http://cedarmills.com/valiant.htm Check out his airstrip also.
Nice gathering place for all of us.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

Ross wrote:
> brian whatcott wrote:
>> Ross wrote:
>>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
>>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>>
>>
>> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>>
>> Brian W
>
> What kind of sailboat do you own?
>

A SouthCoast 22. That's a swing keel. I keep it at the house. But it
wants three people for anxiety-free mast raising, and that's a problem.

My younger son has a better way. He recently rented a lake-front place
with a personal mooring out front for his Hunter 25 - and space for a
trailer too....

Brian W

On Dec 10, 8:09*am, brian whatcott > wrote:
> Ross wrote:
> > brian whatcott wrote:
> >> Ross wrote:
> >>> ... *there use to be the AMU. I think it
> >>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
> >>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>
> >> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>
> >> Brian W
>
> > What kind of sailboat do you own?
>
> A SouthCoast 22. That's a swing keel. I keep it at the house. But it
> wants three people for anxiety-free mast raising, and that's a problem.
>
> My younger son has a better way. He recently rented a lake-front place
> with a personal mooring out front for his Hunter 25 - and space for a
> trailer too....
>
> Brian W

Brian, for what it's worth, I could 'walk' the mast up on the O'Day 25
with the side and aft standing rigging in place. It was designed to
pivot at its socket. I'd run a line near the top with a quick release
knot and have my wife cleat it to the anchor cleat on the bow when
it's upright. then I could attach the forestay and yank on the free
end of the line to release it. The boom goes on after all of that. It
may be your mast is a lot heavier or it didn't pivot into its socket.

I would not want to go through that every time we went sailing, but
the boat once rigged stayed that way all season. It did not trailer
well, I wish it did.

In article >, betwys1
@sbcglobal.net says...
>
> Ross wrote:
> > brian whatcott wrote:
> >> Ross wrote:
> >>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
> >>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
> >>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
> >>>
> >>
> >> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
> >>
> >> Brian W
> >
> > What kind of sailboat do you own?
> >
>
> A SouthCoast 22. That's a swing keel. I keep it at the house. But it
> wants three people for anxiety-free mast raising, and that's a problem.

Surely not! My trailer-sailer is 25' - I can raise and lower the mast
myself (level ground helps!). Surely only one person is needed to hold
the mast up, while the forestay is secured (I use the main on the jib
halyard to tension the mast and allow the forestay to be secured).

--
Duncan.

On Dec 10, 2:41*pm, Dave Doe > wrote:
> In article >, betwys1
> @sbcglobal.net says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ross wrote:
> > > brian whatcott wrote:
> > >> Ross wrote:
> > >>> ... *there use to be the AMU. I think it
> > >>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
> > >>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>
> > >> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>
> > >> Brian W
>
> > > What kind of sailboat do you own?
>
> > A SouthCoast 22. That's a swing keel. I keep it at the house. But it
> > wants three people for anxiety-free mast raising, and that's a problem.
>
> Surely not! *My trailer-sailer is 25' - I can raise and lower the mast
> myself (level ground helps!). *Surely only one person is needed to hold
> the mast up, while the forestay is secured (I use the main on the jib
> halyard to tension the mast and allow the forestay to be secured).
>
> --
> Duncan.

The jib halyard would work at least as well as what I do. Just
thinking, if one attached a pulley to the anchor cleat the hoisting
line could be brought back to one of the main's winches. . .hmm,
getting the mast up could be a one man task!

a wrote:
>
>>>>> ... there use to be the AMU. I think it
>>>>> was aeronautical money unit. It equaled $1000.00. Therefore your
>>>>> $150.00 was only .150 AMU. Doesn't sound so large.
>>>> In a sailboat context, that's 0.15 boatbuck...
>>>> Brian W
>>> What kind of sailboat do you own?
>> A SouthCoast 22. That's a swing keel. I keep it at the house. But it
>> wants three people for anxiety-free mast raising, and that's a problem.
>>
>> My younger son has a better way. He recently rented a lake-front place
>> with a personal mooring out front for his Hunter 25 - and space for a
>> trailer too....
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Brian, for what it's worth, I could 'walk' the mast up on the O'Day 25
> with the side and aft standing rigging in place. It was designed to
> pivot at its socket. I'd run a line near the top with a quick release
> knot and have my wife cleat it to the anchor cleat on the bow when
> it's upright. then I could attach the forestay and yank on the free
> end of the line to release it. The boom goes on after all of that. It
> may be your mast is a lot heavier or it didn't pivot into its socket.
>
> I would not want to go through that every time we went sailing, but
> the boat once rigged stayed that way all season. It did not trailer
> well, I wish it did.

As bought, the boom and sails were available, but the mast was gone.
There had evidently been a mishap, cos several of the stays were broke
near one end. So I found a mast from a Hobie 16 - which had a slightly
longer (25 ft?) and rather stout mast. Actually an old boy offered me
the whole ball of wax on a trailer for next to nothing, because the
trailer had been sitting out front too long...
I rigged a jack staff with a second winch at the trailer head, and
made a wooden tree to fit in the rudder pintle, so that fastening the
winch line to the forestay allows the mast to wind up without too much
stress on the mast footer. But half way to vertical, the mast is apt
to sway sidewards way too much, without a steady line on the foot of
each side stay held by an innocent bystander...

Brian W
p.s. Obligatory flying note: with the thermometer standing at 33 deg, I
thought I would fly the plane in the hour before dark this evening.
...If I could start it....
There was a placard by the ki-gas primer: "Positively One stroke only
in ANY conditions" and biding by that rule gave me several stuttering
start/stops in previous chills.
So I finally got the bit between the teeth, and treated it more like my
previous C-150 which took FOUR ki-gas strokes on a cold day. This time,
with THREE strokes, and a follow up with one stroke, it was running on
the second pull (of the manual start handle)

I think I know why that placard was there - despite low hours on the
engine - one cylinder had been replaced after perhaps 100 hours by the
prior owner.
The easiest possible way to need a pot replaced, as you may know, is
to over prime and get not a stack fire, but rather a back fire. *Bang!*
and it's gone...

Pumping the throttle can do that....

Brian W

"brian whatcott" > wrote

> I rigged a jack staff with a second winch at the trailer head, and made a
> wooden tree to fit in the rudder pintle, so that fastening the winch line
> to the forestay allows the mast to wind up without too much stress on the
> mast footer. But half way to vertical, the mast is apt to sway
> sidewards way too much, without a steady line on the foot of each side
> stay held by an innocent bystander...

I have a solution for that problem. Rig a loop on each one of the side
stays with a short section of wire rope and U-splice fittings, (or some way
of your own choosing to attach extra lines) up high enough that you can
still reach it when the mast is up. Fix up a rope with two hooks the right
length that you will fix to an added eye on the rails of the boat, exactly
abeam of the mast pivot. If you do it right, you can find the right place
and lengths to keep lines tight on both sides, all of the way up.

You get the picture, I hope. Using your method to wind up the mast, the
extra temp rigging will prevent any and all movement of the mast side to
side. Once it is up all the way, you can switch over to the correct stays.

I also had an O'Day 25, for quite a few years. Added an inboard, with my
dad, after we got tired of the 9.9 kicker packing it in at the most
inconvenient times. I did get pretty good at coming into the slip under
sail! <g>

I kick myself for selling that boat, sometimes.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
> "brian whatcott" > wrote
>
>> I rigged a jack staff with a second winch at the trailer head, and made a
>> wooden tree to fit in the rudder pintle, so that fastening the winch line
>> to the forestay allows the mast to wind up without too much stress on the
>> mast footer. But half way to vertical, the mast is apt to sway
>> sidewards way too much, without a steady line on the foot of each side
>> stay held by an innocent bystander...
>
> I have a solution for that problem. Rig a loop on each one of the side
> stays with a short section of wire rope and U-splice fittings, (or some way
> of your own choosing to attach extra lines) up high enough that you can
> still reach it when the mast is up. Fix up a rope with two hooks the right
> length that you will fix to an added eye on the rails of the boat, exactly
> abeam of the mast pivot. If you do it right, you can find the right place
> and lengths to keep lines tight on both sides, all of the way up.
>

I have thought about this kind of setup, more than once. The problem is
the geometry of this particular hull. The mast pivots on the cabin-top,
and the stays fix at the toe rails which are perhaps 2 ft lower, so the
mast goes floppy on the way up. So I sniffed around the internet,
when Richard wanted me to help dropping his mast (Hunter 25)while
afloat. I was struck by a uTube video of a guy raising and dropping mast
while under way to traverse low bridges - single-handed. He rigged an
a-frame whose feet pivoted abeam the mast foot and whose peak folded
down to the pulpit. The peak of the A-frame fixes to the fore stay foot,
so that you could rig a jib halyard back to a cockpit winch. The idea
behind this a-frame is that it starts providing support against
side-sway from about half way down. The first 2 or 3 feet of drop is
still a swaying issue though. The single-hander bear-hugged the mast
with one hand, and loosed the halyard with the other. Neat! This
approach worked for us too using a jury-rig a frame of two spars
fastened together and to the toe rails.

After writing this, I reread your suggestion, and finally got it.
your rig pulls the slack out of the stays on the way up or down.
Yes, that's the idea I needed!
Thanks

Brian W
p.s. Aviation content: with the thermometer at 36 degrees, three primes
gave a start on the first pull last night! I have got it beat...