A year ago I started an airport support group called "Friends of Iowa
City Airport" to help save our threatened airport. It has now grown
to over 170 members, and sending memos, updates and emails to such a
large group has become unwieldy.

For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
(rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)

I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)

What say the group? Anyone got any recommendations? Is there a group
email site on the web that is flexible and powerful enough for what I
need?

Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

It's getting harder and harder to do this because of the spam filters. Our
club ISP has a redirector function. You create an address in it and any
message sent to that address is resent to addresses you enter. Each
recipient gets a message addressed to them only without the long list of
email addresses in the To field that triggers a lot of spam filters. It
works great but we are now having increasing instances of an ISP detecting
that the message went through a redirect function and bouncing it back.

I hope someone responds to you with a good idea because I can see the
redirect system becoming unusable in another few months.

--

Roger Long



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
m...
> A year ago I started an airport support group called "Friends of Iowa
> City Airport" to help save our threatened airport. It has now grown
> to over 170 members, and sending memos, updates and emails to such a
> large group has become unwieldy.
>
> For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
> (rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
> at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
> complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
> years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
> trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)
>
> I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
> of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
> is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
> me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)
>
> What say the group? Anyone got any recommendations? Is there a group
> email site on the web that is flexible and powerful enough for what I
> need?
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

> For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
> (rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
> at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
> complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
> years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
> trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)
>
> I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
> of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
> is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
> me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)
>

I don't quite follow what you're trying to do. In the first paragraph, you
speak of using a web-based solution. In the second, you speak of email.

If you're looking for a web-based solution, there are numerous free "message
board" packages floating around. Some of these (depending upon
technological compatibility) could likely be installed onto your ISP's web
site. You're already ahead of the game, in that you have a web site (and
therefore a "web site provider"). In fact, they may have some
recommendation as to a tool they know works well and is suitable for their
servers.

- Andrew

Roger Long wrote:
>
> I hope someone responds to you with a good idea because I can see the
> redirect system becoming unusable in another few months.
>

I use Mailman to maintain my Lists with 250+ members.
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
But you do need Your own Server on the Net running some UNIX or Linux (like
myself) to use it.
Some ISPs provide mailinglists for their clients. Just ask and/or change
Your ISP.

Maybe there are other Mailing List Software Packs available. Take a look at
http://sourceforge.net/ and search for "mailinglist". But Your provider
should be the way to go if You want a somewhat professional service.

And keep that airfields open....

Hartwig
--

Just remove the cork to Reply by e-Mail.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
m...
> A year ago I started an airport support group called "Friends of Iowa
> City Airport" to help save our threatened airport. It has now grown
> to over 170 members, and sending memos, updates and emails to such a
> large group has become unwieldy.
>
> For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
> (rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
> at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
> complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
> years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
> trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)
>
> I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
> of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
> is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
> me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)
>
> What say the group? Anyone got any recommendations? Is there a group
> email site on the web that is flexible and powerful enough for what I
> need?
>


Take a look at http://www.coollist.com . I send out a "newsletter" type
email from time to time, and this works just fine. Just type out your
"email", hit send and everyone in your list gets it. I think that they can
even read it archived online if they wish.


Hopes this helps...

Chuck



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

Check out

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

Run by our ownDavid Herman.
It doesn't email but it gives a message board and lots of other features.
A big advantage of starting a site there is that it is free.


HTH

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article >,
(Jay Honeck) wrote:

> A year ago I started an airport support group called "Friends of Iowa
> City Airport" to help save our threatened airport. It has now grown
> to over 170 members, and sending memos, updates and emails to such a
> large group has become unwieldy.
>
> For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
> (rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
> at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
> complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
> years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
> trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)
>
> I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
> of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
> is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
> me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)
>
> What say the group? Anyone got any recommendations? Is there a group
> email site on the web that is flexible and powerful enough for what I
> need?
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

On 11 Sep 2004 11:44:29 -0700, (Jay Honeck) wrote
in >::

>Anyone got any recommendations?


http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/

Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager
Mailman is free software for managing electronic mail discussion and
e-newsletter lists. Mailman is integrated with the web, making it easy
for users to manage their accounts and for list owners to administer
their lists. Mailman supports built-in archiving, automatic bounce
processing, content filtering, digest delivery, spam filters, and
more. See the features page for details.
Mailman is free software, distributed under the GNU General Public
License. Mailman is written in the Python programming language, with a
little bit of C code for security.

The name of this software is spelled Mailman with a capital leading M
and a lowercase second m. It is incorrect to spell it "MailMan" (i.e.
you should not use StudlyCaps).

Current Version
Version 2.1.5, (released on 15-May-2004) is the current released
version of Mailman, in production at many sites.

Acknowledgements
Mailman's lead developer is Barry Warsaw who can be contacted at
.

Thanks go to Control.com for their sponsorship of new Mailman 2.1
features such as the topic filters, external membership sources, and
"virtual" mailing lists. Also, a huge thanks goes out to my employer
Zope Corporation for their support, as well as the list of
contributors, bug hunters, big idea people, and others who have helped
immensely with Mailman's development.

> Take a look at http://www.coollist.com . I send out a "newsletter" type
> email from time to time, and this works just fine. Just type out your
> "email", hit send and everyone in your list gets it. I think that they can
> even read it archived online if they wish.

This has potential -- but (I obviously haven't delved deeply into it yet) is
there anything the recipient has to "join" in order to receive the
newsletter? Or is it just essentially automated email?

The main drawback of Yahoo Groups is the requirement to "join" the group
through a rather extensive series of web-based forms. I know a lot of our
old-timers (and some of our young-timers, too!) regard using the internet as
a giant pain in the butt, and I fear they would take one look at it and
throw their hands up in frustration.

These same folks USE email every day -- so while I want MY end to be
web-based, I want THEIR end to come through as email (if they want) OR be
web-based.

I want to make membership in this group as painless as possible -- for the
recipients and for me!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

> The main drawback of Yahoo Groups is the requirement to "join" the group
> through a rather extensive series of web-based forms. I know a lot of our
> old-timers (and some of our young-timers, too!) regard using the internet
> as a giant pain in the butt, and I fear they would take one look at it and
> throw their hands up in frustration.

Most mailing list software makes joining far simpler than Yahoo. But there
will be a confirmation process through which your members will have to go.
It should be as easy as replying to a message or "clicking" upon a link in
an email they receive.

Unfortunately, to fail to confirm is to invite a system to be abused. It's
the sad truth of today's Internet.

There is some software which you can run on your own local machine that will
let you run a small broadcast-only list. But many ISPs prohibit this sort
of thing because a spammer could be using it as easily as you. Again: an
unfortunate truth of how things have evolved.

- Andrew

Actually, Tony (and Jay), smartgroups can be accessed via their web front
end, OR if users prefer can receive messages via email. I like that
flexibility. Members do, however, have to sign up. That's a two-step
process: first you have to register with smartgroups, then you have to
"join" the particular group(s) you want to participate in.

Overall, smartgroups has been pretty good. The things I like about it:
1. it's free
2. there are no pop-ups, poo-unders, or other ads inserted within your
messages; there is just one small banner ad at the top of your page - I can
live with that.
3. users can choose whether to access mesages via the website or through
email
4. there are other free features such as photo albums, file uploads, a group
event calendar, even "voting"
5. it's simple to set up, simple for users to join (even techno-phobic
geezers, for the most part)
6. to a limited degree, it can be "hacked" to incorporate things that they
hadn't really designed into it (more on that below)

The things I don't like about it:
1. in the past, they occasionally went offline for a few hours, sometimes
for a few days, with no warning at all. Fortunately, they seem to have
addressed the problem, and they have not gone offline for any significant
time in nearly a year
2. they do not provide any meaningful support
3. it's limited in some ways - if you have ambitions to turn it into a fancy
website, it's generally not possible in any simple way

Overall, it's a good alternative to Yahoo groups. Before starting it, I
looked all over for something that would meet my needs but came with the
minimum of hassles.

You might want to take a look at the group I started, "Pacific Northwest
Flying"

Note that there are two ways to access the site now:
1. the original (old) URL which is a direct link to the smartgroups-based
discussion groups:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying
(this is the standard way smartgroups expects you to access the group)

The sign-up process is not particularly difficult; click the "First Time
Visitors" button for all a user needs to know.

and....

2. a new, more broadly designed "portal" site I recently created, which
incorporates the smartgroups discussion group into a larger site that has
other "sections":
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/

Stop by and check out the setup sometime (even if you do live back there in
the flatlands ;)

If you have any questions about setting up a group feel free to ping me.
Good luck.


David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum:
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/




"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-9F6235.17394811092004@shawnews...
> Check out
>
> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying
>
> Run by our ownDavid Herman.
> It doesn't email but it gives a message board and lots of other features.
> A big advantage of starting a site there is that it is free.
>
>
> HTH
>
> Tony
>
> --
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Cessna 172H C-GICE
>
> In article >,
> (Jay Honeck) wrote:
>
> > A year ago I started an airport support group called "Friends of Iowa
> > City Airport" to help save our threatened airport. It has now grown
> > to over 170 members, and sending memos, updates and emails to such a
> > large group has become unwieldy.
> >
> > For a variety of reasons I would like to stick with a web-based
> > (rather than Outlook or Outlook Express email) solution. I have looked
> > at using Yahoo Groups, but have rejected them as being overly
> > complicated to "join." (Many of our members are getting up there in
> > years, and even basic email can be a challenge for them, let alone
> > trying to figure out how to "join" a Yahoo group.)
> >
> > I am looking for a way to send "group" email updates to large numbers
> > of members. Unfortunately, my ISP's (Mediacom) group email software
> > is so laced with anti-Spam measures that it is essentially useless to
> > me. (The killer: It limits the number in a group to 25 or less, etc.)
> >
> > What say the group? Anyone got any recommendations? Is there a group
> > email site on the web that is flexible and powerful enough for what I
> > need?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993
> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:03:38 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>> Take a look at http://www.coollist.com . I send out a "newsletter" type
>> email from time to time, and this works just fine. Just type out your
>> "email", hit send and everyone in your list gets it. I think that they can
>> even read it archived online if they wish.
>
>This has potential -- but (I obviously haven't delved deeply into it yet) is
>there anything the recipient has to "join" in order to receive the
>newsletter? Or is it just essentially automated email?

this is called "confirmed opt-in"
you don't want to be listed to a hundred lists without your consent,
therefore you receive an automated email. you usually only have to reply
without changing anything and you are done.

>The main drawback of Yahoo Groups is the requirement to "join" the group
>through a rather extensive series of web-based forms. I know a lot of our
>old-timers (and some of our young-timers, too!) regard using the internet as
>a giant pain in the butt, and I fear they would take one look at it and
>throw their hands up in frustration.


if you run soemthing like mailman you as the operator can unsubscribe and
subscribe through a web interface.

I have a test mailinglist running. you can contact me at martin AT hotze
DOT com and I will give you access to the test list so you can see it and
play with it. then you can ask your hoster if we can install this software
for you.

>These same folks USE email every day -- so while I want MY end to be
>web-based, I want THEIR end to come through as email (if they want) OR be
>web-based.
>
>I want to make membership in this group as painless as possible -- for the
>recipients and for me!

I strongly suggest that you invest the money in a new domain solely for
this purpose.

martin

--
The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil,
the less one is tempted to place the Good
in question. (J.P. Sartre)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:08:22 GMT, Martin Hotze wrote:

>then you can ask your hoster if we can install this software
^^^^
>for you.

this shoud be 'he'. If he can host your site then he can also install this
software for you.

#m

--
The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil,
the less one is tempted to place the Good
in question. (J.P. Sartre)

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:KfN0d.26593$MQ5.22945@attbi_s52...
> > Take a look at http://www.coollist.com . I send out a "newsletter" type
> > email from time to time, and this works just fine. Just type out your
> > "email", hit send and everyone in your list gets it. I think that they
can
> > even read it archived online if they wish.
>
> This has potential -- but (I obviously haven't delved deeply into it yet)
is
> there anything the recipient has to "join" in order to receive the
> newsletter? Or is it just essentially automated email?
>

<snip>

Jay, if I remember correctly, you do it two different ways.

1) You enter the email addresses that you want to be included in the list. I
think that they are sent a confirmation email and they have to go to a link
to confirm or something. It's simple though, nothing like Yahoo.

2) The user goes to a link, then they enter their email address. I don't
think that there is any confirmation email this way.

You can also set it up as a public or private list.

Best of all, there is no software involved because it's all web based and
it's FREE!

Google also has started groups. It's at
http://groups-beta.google.com/?sourceid=ghpp but don't know anything about
it though. I have a feeling it is very similar though.

Let us know which route you decide to go.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The main drawback of Yahoo Groups is the requirement to "join" the group
> through a rather extensive series of web-based forms. I know a lot of our
> old-timers (and some of our young-timers, too!) regard using the internet as
> a giant pain in the butt, and I fear they would take one look at it and
> throw their hands up in frustration.

Bzzzzt! Wrong. Yahoo groups can be used, and subscribed to, like a normal
E-mail list, if the user chooses to. There's no need to use the Web
interface at all. Using, for example, the "pipercherokee" group, you can
subscribe to the list by sending a message to:

unsubscribe by sending a message to:

and post messages by sending them to:


There's absolutely no reason to use the web interface. I always use the
web interface, because it's really not that hard, but you don't have to.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

Larry Dighera > writes:

> On 11 Sep 2004 11:44:29 -0700, (Jay Honeck) wrote
> in >::
>
> >Anyone got any recommendations?
>
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/

I'm looking for the same thing (automated email lists) for 3 web sites
I maintain. I don't see how Mailman works for most of us because you
basically have to own the web server to install the software. I think
what Jay and myself, and probably others, are looking for is a free or
reasonable-fee service that provides for web-based email lists.

Bob, take a look at my post above re smartgroups.com.


--
David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum:
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/


"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> Larry Dighera > writes:
>
> > On 11 Sep 2004 11:44:29 -0700, (Jay Honeck) wrote
> > in >::
> >
> > >Anyone got any recommendations?
> >
> >
> > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/
>
> I'm looking for the same thing (automated email lists) for 3 web sites
> I maintain. I don't see how Mailman works for most of us because you
> basically have to own the web server to install the software. I think
> what Jay and myself, and probably others, are looking for is a free or
> reasonable-fee service that provides for web-based email lists.
>

A few other things... Using a yahoo group gives each individual the
choice whether they want to participate using the web interface or the
e-mail interface. Also, the owner/administrator of the group can "bulk
subscribe" a large number of participants. If I remember right, you can
"invite" them, which allows them to opt out, or you can just subscribe
them. If you pick the latter, I believe they limit you to some number a
day. This is in an effort to prevent high volume spammers from using the
service.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

> Let us know which route you decide to go.

I've made the jump to CoolLists. Setting it up was simple, the response
process required from the invited member/subscriber was simple, and it's
free.

It's hard to beat that combination!

Thanks to all who responded.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"