Hello!

Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.

I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that many of us
....

Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out there.
Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!

So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ... GCPIC...

Stand up and say hello here!

HELLO!

:)

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com

Hello, my name is Peter MacPherson and I'm a.......
Permanent Resident pilot in the US.

; - )



"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello!
>
> Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
>
> I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that many of
> us
> ...
>
> Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out there.
> Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
>
> So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ... GCPIC...
>
> Stand up and say hello here!
>
> HELLO!
>
> :)
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
> My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
>
>

Hello. I'm a permanent resident (Canadian citizen), pilot and CFI.


"Peter MacPherson" > wrote in
news:Him5d.261228$Fg5.174126@attbi_s53:

> Hello, my name is Peter MacPherson and I'm a.......
> Permanent Resident pilot in the US.
>
> ; - )
>
>
>
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> . net...
>> Hello!
>>
>> Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
>>
>> I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that
>> many of us
>> ...
>>
>> Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out
>> there. Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
>>
>> So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ...
>> GCPIC...
>>
>> Stand up and say hello here!
>>
>> HELLO!
>>
>> :)
>>
>> --
>> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
>> My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
>>
>>
>
>
>


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I'm also a CFI and Canadian citizen.



"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 5...
> Hello. I'm a permanent resident (Canadian citizen), pilot and CFI.
>
>
> "Peter MacPherson" > wrote in
> news:Him5d.261228$Fg5.174126@attbi_s53:
>
>> Hello, my name is Peter MacPherson and I'm a.......
>> Permanent Resident pilot in the US.
>>
>> ; - )
>>
>>
>>
>> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
>> . net...
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
>>>
>>> I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that
>>> many of us
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out
>>> there. Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
>>>
>>> So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ...
>>> GCPIC...
>>>
>>> Stand up and say hello here!
>>>
>>> HELLO!
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
>>> My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com

Sounds like we need our own newsgroup :-)

-- David Brooks

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
. net...
> Hello!
>
> Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
>
> I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that many of
us
> ...
>
> Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out there.
> Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
>
> So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ... GCPIC...
>
> Stand up and say hello here!
>
> HELLO!
>
> :)
>
> --
> Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
> My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
>
>

Or our own association.

GCOPA ... Green Card Owners And Pilots Association.

Only flaw is that sooner or later every one of us will probably become a
citizen ...

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> Sounds like we need our own newsgroup :-)
>
> -- David Brooks
>
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > Hello!
> >
> > Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
> >
> > I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that many
of
> us
> > ...
> >
> > Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out there.
> > Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
> >
> > So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ...
GCPIC...
> >
> > Stand up and say hello here!
> >
> > HELLO!
> >
> > :)
> >
> > --
> > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
> > My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
> >
> >
>
>

Hello. I'm a permanent resident (British citizen) and pilot


"Peter MacPherson" > wrote in message
news:Him5d.261228$Fg5.174126@attbi_s53...
> Hello, my name is Peter MacPherson and I'm a.......
> Permanent Resident pilot in the US.
>
> ; - )
>
>
>
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > Hello!
> >
> > Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
> >
> > I thought I was alone ... or at the very least there weren't that many
of
> > us
> > ...
> >
> > Instead I saw in the latest posts that there's a whole bunch out there.
> > Instructors that are Permanent Residents too!!
> >
> > So, if you are just like me ... a Green Card Pilot In Command ...
GCPIC...
> >
> > Stand up and say hello here!
> >
> > HELLO!
> >
> > :)
> >
> > --
> > Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
> > My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com
> >
> >
>
>

Marco,

> Permanent Resident pilot, in the US.
>

You know what? I'll stand up even though I am not a resident alien. But
I used to fly about two or three times per year in the US on my US
pilot certificate. The way it looks, that won't happen much anymore.

I'm really curious as to why the huge group of people I am a part of is
conveniently forgotten in the discussion here. Surely, no one can
actually believe we are a security risk?

Also, I have to wonder what happens if I rent a US-registered aircraft
here in Germany and get flight review from one of the US-CFIs here.

This is all such utter BS...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...

>
> Also, I have to wonder what happens if I rent a US-registered aircraft
> here in Germany and get flight review from one of the US-CFIs here.

You would have to go through the same rigmarole, even in a German-registered
aircraft. From the IFR:

This definition also includes any individual or entity located outside of
the U.S. that provides such instruction. For example, a flight school
located in Canada that provides instruction in the operation of an aircraft
or aircraft simulator under 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, Part A, that would
enable an individual to receive a U.S. Airman's Certificate is subject to
this rule.

("Thomas Borchert" wrote)
<snips>
> I'm really curious as to why the huge group of people I am a part of is
> conveniently forgotten in the discussion here. Surely, no one can
> actually believe we are a security risk?


Quiet, and stand in line over there - we're not done frisking this 80 year
old Iowa farmer with Parkinson's disease.


> This is all such utter BS...

Good then, you're up to speed.


http://www.kmsp.com/news/investigators/story.asp?1636167
I had to endure this tripe from our local Fox9 "News." Letters were
written!!

Story is about security at our 5 reliever airports around (MSP) Minneapolis/
St. Paul. My (ANE) Anoka-Blaine Airport is one of the "open" airports in
the piece.

Story is all ..."She's a witch, she's a witch. Where's the millstone for her
neck?"

Who me? I'm not a witch. I love useless security. ...Whew, that was close.

BTW, the fence at ANE was put up to keep out the deer, yet even they've
found ways to get back in.


Montblack
"My dear fellow! This isn't Spain ... this is England!"
A Man For All Seasons (1966)
Winner of six Academy Awards - including Best Picture

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> Or our own association.
>
> GCOPA ... Green Card Owners And Pilots Association.

the way AOPA seems to be forgetting us altogether, we may very
well have to... by the way, guys, don't forget to write to
AOPA and remind them that we do exist, and may be ask whether
AOPA can actually afford to antagonize and possibly loose a
fair chunk of its membership (the often quoted remark by
Phil Boyer, see www.aopa.org, who seems so upset that the new
rules from our Truly Silly Administration might possibly affect
US citizen, without giving a thought about those among us who
have already been veted, and background checked and fingerprinted
and whatsnot, really ****ed me off);

> Only flaw is that sooner or later every one of us will probably become a
> citizen ...

if we ever get a chance to apply; the way things are going, just
reading the news, the only foreigners given any slack these days
are Saudi terrorists caught in the act... but I digress.

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
m...
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> > Or our own association.
> >
> > GCOPA ... Green Card Owners And Pilots Association.
>
> the way AOPA seems to be forgetting us altogether, we may very
> well have to... by the way, guys, don't forget to write to
> AOPA and remind them that we do exist, and may be ask whether
> AOPA can actually afford to antagonize and possibly loose a
> fair chunk of its membership (the often quoted remark by
> Phil Boyer, see www.aopa.org, who seems so upset that the new
> rules from our Truly Silly Administration might possibly affect
> US citizen, without giving a thought about those among us who
> have already been veted, and background checked and fingerprinted
> and whatsnot, really ****ed me off);

I did get an answer back and I didn't like it one bit.

Sounded like a pacifier:

"we didn't forget about you, we are working on it, we'll give it our best
try."

Canned response. The food for my cat smells fresher.

That's the answer I got from AOPA. My AOPA regional representative instead
said that he has a few things he can try and he'll get back to me in a few
days ... but things are tough because we are not US Citizens and that's all
there is to it.

More honest ... I have a couple of things I am going to talk to him about
when he gets back to me ... but I have to dust off my green card and my
passport and get ready to dish out those 200 bux ... cause I don't think
this is going anywhere.

>
> > Only flaw is that sooner or later every one of us will probably become a
> > citizen ...
>
> if we ever get a chance to apply; the way things are going, just
> reading the news, the only foreigners given any slack these days
> are Saudi terrorists caught in the act... but I digress.
>
> --Sylvain

LOL!!!


--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Thomas Borchert" wrote)


> Quiet, and stand in line over there - we're not done frisking this 80 year
> old Iowa farmer with Parkinson's disease.
>

You never know!! Them 80 year old farmers are a real danger to national
security. Who knows what they are hiding in them purses? You can't imagine
how much damage a knitting tool can do.

Yep. Makes sense.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
m...
> "Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
> > Or our own association.
> >
> > GCOPA ... Green Card Owners And Pilots Association.
>
> the way AOPA seems to be forgetting us altogether, we may very
> well have to... by the way, guys, don't forget to write to
> AOPA and remind them that we do exist, and may be ask whether
> AOPA can actually afford to antagonize and possibly loose a
> fair chunk of its membership (the often quoted remark by
> Phil Boyer, see www.aopa.org, who seems so upset that the new
> rules from our Truly Silly Administration might possibly affect
> US citizen, without giving a thought about those among us who
> have already been veted, and background checked and fingerprinted
> and whatsnot, really ****ed me off);
>
> > Only flaw is that sooner or later every one of us will probably become a
> > citizen ...
>
> if we ever get a chance to apply; the way things are going, just
> reading the news, the only foreigners given any slack these days
> are Saudi terrorists caught in the act... but I digress.
>
> --Sylvain

Just go to Mexico and illegally walk across the border into California. You
will be given anything you could ever want or need for free.

Marco,

> Them 80 year old farmers are a real danger to national
> security.
>

Well, at least they'd have access to large quantities of fertilizer.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Marco,

here's the full Boyer response as sent out today:

RE: New TSA Interim Rule

I apologize in advance for the “group” reply to your personal email,
but the number I have received on this issue from non-US citizens is
best served by an overall answer. Rest assured that I have personally
(mostly over the weekend) read every one of your emails, and also
forwarded some of them to staff in our Government and Technical Affairs
department who are actively working this issue.

Needless to state, this rule hit AOPA and the rest of the industry
off-guard. No one expected the surprise rulemaking, even though we
were aware that in last year’s VISION 100 Bill, Congress ordered a
change in how the agencies were treating flight instruction; with
emphasis on over 12,500 pound aircraft, but not limited to such. The
intent of Congress is to "screen" non-US citizens receiving training in
the US. As your emails pointed out, the implementation of such a
requirement has implications not understood by TSA. I appreciate you
bringing this to our attention and your concerns about how this affects
you.

First, I apologize if our web story or e-Pilot gave the impression that
as a non-US citizen your AOPA membership means nothing to our advocacy
issues. Frankly, I can see how you might have interpreted it that way,
and while no excuse, I was in Washington, DC Wednesday through Friday
of last week, with an evening speech in Buffalo, NY on Thursday, when
e-Pilot is constructed. In the lobby of the building of my speech, I
was on the cell phone with my right hand person in G&TA for almost 30
minutes getting a better understanding of this ridiculous interim rule,
and in a verbal conversation it was difficult for me to catch the
various interpretations our “rush to deadline” story might get from our
various constituencies.

With that stated, let me clearly state that AOPA is diligently working
on all aspects of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) rule.

AOPA has been in contact with Transportation Security Administration
(TSA) numerous times last week to register our opposition to
unilaterally creating a huge burden for U.S. citizen and non-citizen
pilots and flight instructors; criticizing their lack of industry
input.

We immediately placed the interim rule in the hands of AOPA General
Counsel John Yodice, for a full interpretation. AOPA staff has already
communicated with him on numerous occasions on various aspects of the
rule, and I met with John on Wednesday afternoon for an in-person
briefing. We expect his completed report sometime today (Mon-Sept 27).
This report will form the basis for several actions:

1) Petition the Docket for a delay of the rule, citing it is so ill
conceived that the implementation schedule could cause huge chaos.
2) Send a letter to the Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security,
Admiral David Stone (head of the TSA) an outline of our initial
concerns, and ask for a delay in implementation, plus heavy industry
consultation.
3) Have AOPA Legislative Affairs in Washington, DC inform members of
Congress that the instructions to TSA in their VISION 100 Bill, the
genesis of this TSA rulemaking, has been grossly mis-interpreted.
4) I intend to verbally convey this to Admiral David Stone as soon as
I can reach him.
5) Our staff meets with the TSA and members of the industry this
coming Thursday, in the first in-person discussion and adverse reaction
to this rule.

Your emails have contained many good comments, and I have assembled
them into a booklet for possible use with the TSA on the non-citizen
portion of this issue.

e-Pilot and our website will contain updates on our actions, and will
link to copies of correspondence AOPA has with the TSA, Federal
Aviation Administration, and Congress. Rest assured, we (I) will not
leave any stone unturned. As mentioned earlier, the United States
Congress has directed this agency to formulate a way to provide more
security to the flight training environment, with particular regard to
non-U.S. citizens. Remember, the tragedy of 9-11-01 did involve such
training. But, in all the discussions leading up to this, never did we
feel they intended to go this far in this bizarre a manner.

Thanks for allowing me to better explain our actions.

--Phil
--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Marco,
>
> here's the full Boyer response as sent out today:
>

Yep. Got the same. Canned response. I should have expected it.

I am talking to my regional AOPA representative (by email) and we'll se
where that leads.

I didn't have a lot of faith in a reply from Phil Boyer. I am sure he was
probably bombarded ...

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community -> http://www.thepilotlounge.com

"Marco Rispoli" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Marco,
> >
> > here's the full Boyer response as sent out today:
> >
>
> Yep. Got the same. Canned response. I should have expected it.
>
> I am talking to my regional AOPA representative (by email) and we'll se
> where that leads.
>
> I didn't have a lot of faith in a reply from Phil Boyer. I am sure he was
> probably bombarded ...

AOPA's response has hit the docket on dms.dot.gov. It's just 2 pages,
primarily a call for delay. Among other numbers they highlight that there
are 85,000 certificated resident alien pilots - that's 13% of all. I don't
know where they pulled the number from.

I think AOPA got the message. Let's get off their case now.

-- David Brooks

Thanks for posting this. I was pretty ****ed off by AOPA's original
negligence of permanent residents but it looks like they're actually
listening to their members.

Anyway, another non-citizen here (nor I intend to be one).

-Toly.

Toly,

> negligence of permanent residents
>

AND VISITORS! Jeeze!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Having seen the disgraceful display at the convention today, in which
AOPA's Phil Boyer described Mr. Stone (TSA Administrator) as a friend
to general aviation, expressed his support for him keeping his job as
long as possible, provided him with a public platform and finally
orchestrated a standing ovation for him, I think it's fair to assume
that AOPA has shown that it is a paper tiger that won't even embarrass
- never mind actively oppose - the unelected official responsible for
the biggest successful regulatory attack on general aviation in living
memory. With AOPA unwilling to make a fuss and FAA mysteriously
entirely absent from the debate, it will now be perfectly clear to TSA
that there will be no effective opposition to any other lunacy it
chooses to implement - and certainly there will be nothing stopping
TSA from making the lives of resident alien pilots miserable or
impossible.

All of this follows yesterday's slap in the face by TSA, which only
partially postponed the implementation of the rule, and continues the
distinction between resident aliens (who have already been thoroughly
vetted by DHS) and natural born U.S. Citizens (who generally have
not). With friends like Mr. Stone, general aviation hardly needs
enemies.

I'm afraid AOPA has "gone native" in Washington.

It's sad.

AOPA was actually very effective on this.

Congress created the basic requirement. TSA then went way overboard in the
implementation but was quite responsive to the AOPA's input in rolling it
back about as far as they could without getting congress to change the
recently passed law.

Give AOPA big points for getting Stone to the convention and Stone for
going. Things get done by having access and making friends with those who
have the power to change things. Sure, the situation is still a mess but
it's much better than it could have been. Doing the warm fuzzy with Stone
after the gains just made is a lot more productive than making him an enemy.
You can be sure Stone will be taking Boyer's phone calls in the future.
Next time, maybe he'll even try to save the flap they have just been through
and seek some advice from AOPA first. I see this as a big breakthrough even
though it didn't make the whole alien rule disappear.

The real problems start with the laws being passed in an environment where
any attempt to inject reason is seen as weakness and being "soft" on
terrorism. You can bet that anyone who pointed out in congress that this
requirement was silly would have his opponent telling the voters next
election that he didn't care if they got crop dusted with anthrax in their
sleep.

For real relief from this kind of thing, the voters have to start sending
people to congress who have the character not to panic and pander like
sheep. Since voters refuse to read any more and 99% vote on the basis of
the attack ads they see during TV commercial breaks, most seat are going to
go to the candidate that can raise the most money. If you look at business,
you'll see that money generally doesn't flow to the ones run with the most
honesty and integrity.

At least we have the government we deserve.

--

Roger Long

Hi Roger,

My understanding is that the Chairman of the House Aviation
Subcommittee wrote a letter to Mr. Stone explaining that he and his
organization had gone way beyond the Congressional intent, which
expressly related to aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs. Although
that may not have been what the law said in writing, Congressional
intent is part of the law. Also, I'm sure Congress left the
implementation details to TSA, and it's the details that have so many
of us upset, not the idea of adding genuine security.

TSA seems to have rolled back implementation just enough to avoid
getting smacked by said Chairman, and did it a day late, presumably to
make a point. AOPA was pretty upset at what amounted to a display of
raw arrogant power by TSA, and made that fairly clear on the web site.
Phil Boyer certainly made it sound like he was upset.

What happened the next day was rather dismal. If that's how you treat
someone who demonstrates how little he thinks of AOPA's concerns, how
can we show gratitude to our friends, for heaven's sake? And there's
a bigger problem: how many officials do you think are going to care
much what Phil Boyer says to them now, when someone who has dissed him
publicly gets a standing ovation from our members? That was a huge
mistake.

I think Stone showed up, by the way, because he was literally unaware
of the issue: that's what happens when you don't listen. He evidently
said as much on a number of occasions, when asked about various
issues.

I'm not suggesting he should have been embarrassed in public. I'm
suggesting he should have been disinvited as being an inappropriate
speaker, given our current organizational conflicts of interest
(even/especially if he's unaware of it), until such time as his
organization actually listens to ours. If he doesn't plan to listen,
we should start making his life miserable (tit for tat, classic game
theory). He actually stood up there and said he takes input from
AOPA: does anyone seriously think AOPA didn't tell him, on Day 1, that
he was out of his mind on this one? He's not aware of it: therefore,
he didn't ask, or if he asked it was purely to placate AOPA and he
didn't actually listen to the answer.

I'm not particularly opposed to adding some security to flight
training. I think a bunch of sensible suggestions (even one or two of
the things actually in this rule) could have been implemented with FAA
and AOPA helping.

But we needed Phil to get this guy's attention, to kick his butt, not
kiss it.

And no, I'm not at all sure he'll be taking Phil's calls in the
future: it didn't hurt him to ignore them this time, after all. Phil
had to burn major political capital to get this guy to listen a
little, and you can bet he'll stonewall on changing the rules too ("my
hands are tied, yada, yada"). A few more rounds of this and Phil will
be all out of political influence - and this Stone will walk on us.
In negotiations, you have to have leverage and sometimes you have to
use it. Kissing up doesn't get you anywhere until the fact that "we
need each other" has been established and clearly understood. I don't
yet see much sign of that.

I do hope I'm wrong.