I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
(AWO). From the maps
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it sits
right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).

Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
the same weekend.

OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there being
only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
TERPSters are done with it?

Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to their
favorite non-towered airport?

-- David Brooks

"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it
> sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there
> being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to
> their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>

David,

I don't fly at an airport affected by a track, but from my travels, two
un-controlled fields come to mind: Tara Field next to the Atlanta Motor
Speedway and Talledega Muni next door to the Talledega Motor Speedway.

Other places where there is an airport near a track are Daytona, Charlotte
and Texas but these are Class C and Ds.

It is unfortunate for pilots that a race weekend TFR would put a crimp in
local ops, but there is still money to be made off the planes and helos the
drivers / owners / teams / VIPs fly. Ramp Fees + Lots of Jet A = Revenue.
If I ran the airport, I'd find ways to encourage these aircraft to use my
facility. If I ran a helo charter company, I'd be on my knees thanking
whatever is held holy. People of means do not drive to the track, they go
by helo. The skies over Fontana, California on race day look like a warzone
LZ...same with the race at Sonoma, CA.

Heck, if the airport is big enough, Roush Racing alone travels on two 727s
and The Cat In the Hat just might fly his P51 in, too.

NASCAR and Aviation are not unfamiliar with each other.

Yes, NASCAR is a 400lb Gorilla, but even Gorillas need somewhere to eat and
sleep. Race weekends generate huge, HUGE amounts of money for local
economies. Our TV crews alone numbers over 150 people. Now add another 100
or more for each of the 43 teams (including guests of each team), the NASCAR
staff themselves (maybe another 200 (probably more), other media, and then
there are the 100,000 to 250,000 people (depending on what size and type of
track gets built) who come to the race.

Probably a third of the above will be in town from Monday to Monday. That's
a lot of hotel rooms, dinners out, charcoal for grills and beer. Did I
mention HUGE amounts of money being spent?

Now, you may not be a NASCAR fan, but the $$$s in question are a giant
carrot on a stick to politicians. Traditional tracks are being dropped in
favor of markets where this carrot can be of maximum effect. Texas has been
granted a second race as has Phoenix and Fontana, CA. They are even looking
at trying to put a track on Staten Island in NYC. (A thought, by the way,
that gets a giant OH NO!!! from me...see my sig.)

As far as "other" events go, don't you have to have 30,000+ people to draw a
TFR?I'd be very suprised if anything but a full-blown Nextel Cup race
weekend would draw the necessary 30,000+ people.

Just my $0.02

Jay Beckman
Student Pilot
Video Technican - NASCAR on FOX/NBC
Chandler AZ
(Dreading the 3 day TFR for the 3rd Prez Debate at ASU)

52F (Northwest Regional) is just inside the 3 mile TFR ring of Texas Motor
Speedway.

As long as you call ahead of time, depart the pattern, and upon return,
obviously head directly for the airport (staying outside the TFR until the
last minute), it's OK.

3-4 major events per year. (was 1 NASCAR, next year will be 2, plus 2 IRL
races, and of course each one has the Busch or Craftsman Trucks the day
before).

"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it
sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there
being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to
their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

I've got a friend based at Old Bridge in NJ. Same piece of property as an
NHRA drag strip. There is a major national event there once a year.

He won't go near the airport when the race is going on. Too crowded.

NHRA doesn't rate TFRs , but I suspect the same thing will happen in
Marysville. Too many pilots unfamiliar with the airport, parking in front of
hangars, etc.


"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it
sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there
being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to
their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

Steve Foley wrote:
>
> I've got a friend based at Old Bridge in NJ. Same piece of property as an
> NHRA drag strip. There is a major national event there once a year.
>
> He won't go near the airport when the race is going on. Too crowded.

Old Bridge has a perimeter fence. Aircraft owners are given keys to the gate. Most
days, owners park in the lot outside the fence and it's frowned upon to park inside.
On race days, everybody parks inside.

Getting there is an exercise if you don't know the back roads, however. I suspect
he's used to coming in the front way right by the track entrance. He needs to learn
the back way in.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"David Brooks" > writes:

> I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to their
> favorite non-towered airport?

Hm... Brackett (KPOC) tower closes at 2100 local, and it's across the
street from the Pomona Speed Raceway (plenty of NHRA activity, for
instance). On final for runways 26 R/L you are a few hundred feet
above the raceway.

Also, on departure, you fly over Puddingstone Lake, where they have
dragboat races often.

-jav

I don't know about other sites, but Talledega puts up a temporary tower
on race day, so I am guessing a temporary Class D airspace goes along
with it. Traffic at Talledega completely fills the airport.
It reminds me of a mini-Oshkosh event. Controllers at the approach end
of the runway pushing VFR departures out between the IFR departures
being released by Atlanta Center.
It is fun to fly into the race, park the airplane and walk across the
airport to the track. If you hustle at the end of the race you can get
out before the lines form. It took me three-hours from the time the race
ended until I was wheels up. That included pushing the plane from where
I parked to the parallel taxiway (half-mile?) at the departure end of
the runway (5000 feet).

David Brooks wrote:
> I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't know about other sites, but Talledega puts up a temporary tower on
> race day, so I am guessing a temporary Class D airspace goes along with
> it.

Probably not. Controlled airspace just isn't established for these
short-term events. Fond du Lac gets a temporary tower each year during the
EAA convention, but there are no airspace changes. Sheboygan got a
temporary tower for the PGA tournament but there were no airspace changes.

One more reason to hate NASCAR (as if another reason was required...)

I never did understand the attraction of driving (much less WATCHING) cars
around an oval. Oh well. Maybe I need a lobotomy.



"Rubbin's racin'" - or something like that.
(from my favorite-est scientologist midget and ex-wife movie, "Days of
Thunder")
I can't believe Duvall did that movie.

"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it
sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there
being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to
their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

> I don't fly at an airport affected by a track, but from my travels, two
> un-controlled fields come to mind: Tara Field next to the Atlanta Motor
> Speedway and Talledega Muni next door to the Talledega Motor Speedway.


Yeah, the speedway is literally right next to the runway at Tara (4A7)-- you
fly over it in the pattern for 24 (even if you fly them really tight like I
do). Never flown in there on race day, but from what I heard from my
instructor, they open up a temporary tower and route the traffic to the
other side of the runway (ie right pattern for 24). Also, you're supposed
to reroute your pattern if there's anything semi-significant going on
(qualifying, smaller races, etc). In the days just before/after, the field
is filled with jets and even a few helos, and sometimes there's a blimp tied
up over in the field.

However, the majority of the time, it's a very nice field to go to. We get
our gas at the self-serve pumps there all the time; they have the cheapest
gas in the Atlanta area ($2.50/gal last time I was there).

The proposed NASCAR site is 1/2 mile directly south of the main runway at
AWO, right under final approach. I think it's right where Homer Simpson
would put a big stadium.

There are lots of worried folks up there right now. It's a major center for
ultralight flying, and there are plans to make it a major hub for light
sport aircraft, too. Some are questioning whether that will be possible if
the NASCAR site goes in.

A local group has organized to try and fight the NASCAR proposal, their
website is here in case anyone is interested:
http://www.scar-info.net/

The local airport advisory board (who unfortunately appear to have no real
power) has gone on record in opposition to the proposal, but there is a lot
of momentum behind it.

I'd hate to see it wreck this great airport.


--
David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum:
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/


"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>I haven't heard a peep from anyone in aviation about this, but now it
> appears the Northwest can't survive without a NASCAR track, and yesterday
> the finalist was announced. Marysville, just a hair south of Arlington
> (AWO). From the maps
> (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2004/09/23/2002045069.jpg), it
> sits
> right under the straight-in for 34. It has the nearest IAPs to Everett,
> making it a popular location for checkrides (it seems like you're still in
> the PAE pattern when you get vectored to the intercept).
>
> Yes, the EAA Arlington. What fun it will be when the EAA and NASCAR choose
> the same weekend.
>
> OK, so if you're thinking about the stadium TFR, they talk about there
> being
> only three meets per year. But once this big facility is built, the owners
> will probably find other ways to use it. The LOC 34 MDA is 469 feet above
> TDZE - would anyone like to hazard a guess about what it would be when the
> TERPSters are done with it?
>
> Does anyone else have experience with a NASCAR track snuggled close to
> their
> favorite non-towered airport?
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I don't know about other sites, but Talledega puts up a temporary tower
>> on race day, so I am guessing a temporary Class D airspace goes along
>> with it.
>
> Probably not. Controlled airspace just isn't established for these
> short-term events. Fond du Lac gets a temporary tower each year during
> the EAA convention, but there are no airspace changes. Sheboygan got a
> temporary tower for the PGA tournament but there were no airspace changes.

Phoenix Regional (A39) is getting a temporary tower for the Copperstate Fly
In next weekend and they have published arrival and departure
procedures...but I don't believe that the airspace will change designations.
I'll have to dig into it further.

Anyone here coming to Copperstate?

Jay Beckman
Student Pilot - KCHD

> Phoenix Regional (A39) is getting a temporary tower for the Copperstate Fly
> In next weekend and they have published arrival and departure
> procedures...but I don't believe that the airspace will change designations.
> I'll have to dig into it further.
>
> Anyone here coming to Copperstate?

I'll be there one day, either Saturday or Sunday.
---
KR

Personally, I think the Arlington pilots' concern is way overblown. Even on
those days in which the event draws more than 30,000 and there is a TFR, you
are allowed to fly through the TFR for the purpose of arriving or departing
at the airport.

Most of the resistance seems to be coming from the Blackjack Squadron there:
a bunch of squirrels who regard the airport as their personal property and
who resent the idea of there being any rules for flying at all. These are
the guys who practice aerobatics on short final. I know several people who
have had to take evasive action to avoid being hit by these idiots. Tough
luck if a NASCAR track makes them clean up their act.

I think the track will be beneficial for the airport.

Richard Hertz wrote:


> I never did understand the attraction of driving (much less WATCHING) cars
> around an oval.

Ah, but if it were a figure-8, it would be as interesting as aviation crash
videos.

- Andrew

>"Jay Beckman" wrote in message > Now add another 100
> or more for each of the 43 teams (including guests of each team),

Depends on the team- I'm hauling a truck team these days in a 14 seater.

> As far as "other" events go, don't you have to have 30,000+ people to draw
a
> TFR?

Open air events require 3000 to invect a TFR.

D.