http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--planecrash1014oct14,0,7434473.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

>
>
>http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--planecrash1014oct14,0,74
34473.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

MADISON, Conn. -- The propeller from the plane that crashed into a house on
Lovers Lane Monday night has been found a few miles away in Killingworth.

Police Chief Paul Jakubson said police received a call Wednesday from a
resident of Maple Hill Road in Killingworth, which is 2 to 3 miles from the
crash site.

So...did it pop off and zing all that way ahead of the crash scene...or drop
off before they dropped out of the air?

A founding member of the Compuserve Aviation Special Interest Group, who is
regrettably no longer with us, lost the prop on his GlasAir and watched as
it flew off into the distance....there's a heck of a lot of pressure on the
back side of the propeller disk. He survived the landing.

Bob Gardner

"StellaStar" > wrote in message
...
> >
>>
>>http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--planecrash1014oct14,0,74
> 34473.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
>
> MADISON, Conn. -- The propeller from the plane that crashed into a house
> on
> Lovers Lane Monday night has been found a few miles away in Killingworth.
>
> Police Chief Paul Jakubson said police received a call Wednesday from a
> resident of Maple Hill Road in Killingworth, which is 2 to 3 miles from
> the
> crash site.
>
> So...did it pop off and zing all that way ahead of the crash scene...or
> drop
> off before they dropped out of the air?

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> A founding member of the Compuserve Aviation Special Interest Group, who
is
> regrettably no longer with us, lost the prop on his GlasAir and watched as
> it flew off into the distance....there's a heck of a lot of pressure on
the
> back side of the propeller disk. He survived the landing.
>
> Bob Gardner

Yes, but not 2 to 3 miles.

I have been passed by a hubcap, but passed it again pretty soon.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.776 / Virus Database: 523 - Release Date: 10/12/2004

> I have been passed by a hubcap, but passed it again pretty soon.
> --

I have been passed by my right rear tyre in a kombi one night many moons
ago.

Before I lurched to a stop, I tried to decide if it was real, or a result of
all those nasty things I used to do to my body!
;<)
Peter

He was returning the plane to the Danbury Flight School at DXR from
Nantucket (ACK). Drawing a straight line on a map from Nantucket to Danbury,
Madison and Killingworth are on the same line and Killingworth is 2-3 miles
closer to Danbury.

Griswold Airport (MPE) is in the same town where he went down
(Madison).Wonder how (specifically) the dislodged prop affected the
aerodynamics of the Warrior and his chances for a controllable glide.
(Student here, please be be kind!)

"StellaStar" > wrote in message
...
> So...did it pop off and zing all that way ahead of the crash scene...or
> drop
> off before they dropped out of the air?

>>
>>http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--planecrash1014oct14,0,74
> 34473.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
>
> MADISON, Conn. -- The propeller from the plane that crashed into a house
> on
> Lovers Lane Monday night has been found a few miles away in Killingworth.
>
> Police Chief Paul Jakubson said police received a call Wednesday from a
> resident of Maple Hill Road in Killingworth, which is 2 to 3 miles from
> the
> crash site.

(added:)
The 1978 Piper Warrior smashed through tree branches before crashing into
the roof of a house.

Hanlon and Johnson, who were co-workers at the U.S. Post Office in
Brookfield, were flying from Nantucket to Danbury when Hanlon
radioed in a "mayday" shortly before 6 p.m. to report that the
engine had stopped working.

"H.P." > wrote in message
om...
> He was returning the plane to the Danbury Flight School at DXR from
> Nantucket (ACK). Drawing a straight line on a map from Nantucket to
Danbury,
> Madison and Killingworth are on the same line and Killingworth is 2-3
miles
> closer to Danbury.
>
> Griswold Airport (MPE) is in the same town where he went down
> (Madison).Wonder how (specifically) the dislodged prop affected the
> aerodynamics of the Warrior and his chances for a controllable glide.
> (Student here, please be be kind!)
>
> "

An account of an aerobatic Pitts losing a prop said that the pilot used full
forward stick and the aircraft still flared with nose up just before the
pilot got it on terra firma. If he hadn't gotten it down it would have
gone into a flat spin. I remember reading about it in the nineties. Of
course, a part of the crankshaft departed with the propeller.

To me, losing a prop on a single-engine tractor aircraft means instant loss
of power, an aft CG outside of the envelope, and a life-threatening
encounter with the earth's gravitational pull.

"Morgans",

Actually, two or three miles is not at all unusual if a prop is flung
at altitude. The event is not nearly as common as it used to be (prop
design is better, so it usually is an indication of serious
maintenance neglect). If you go back into the historical record props
came off of hubs with a distressing regularity prior to WWII, but
continued from time to time since then. Depending on the altitude of
the airplane when the prop departs and the direction the pilot turns
in gliding to a landing (assuming no major damage to the airframe
caused by the departing prop, and the airplane is controllable), the
distance between propeller and airplane can be several miles.

There is a good discussion of the topic in the era between the World
Wars in _The Eighth Sea_ by the late British test pilot, Frank T.
Courtney. Very good and interesting book.

Friend of mine flung the prop off of a Grumman Ag-Cat he was flying.
As he pulled up off of a spray pass, having just shut off the
chemical, the engine rpm went up radically and the airplane
decelerated sharply. He was at about 50 feet agl, stuffed the nose
down, but still stalled a few feet above the ground, hit hard and
flipped. He was unhurt. After he got out, wondering what in the
world had happened (he didn't see the prop go), he walked around the
airplane a few times before he realized the prop was missing. It was
never found.

All the best,
Rick

"Morgans" > wrote in message >...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A founding member of the Compuserve Aviation Special Interest Group, who
> is
> > regrettably no longer with us, lost the prop on his GlasAir and watched as
> > it flew off into the distance....there's a heck of a lot of pressure on
> the
> > back side of the propeller disk. He survived the landing.
> >
> > Bob Gardner
>
> Yes, but not 2 to 3 miles.
>
> I have been passed by a hubcap, but passed it again pretty soon.

In article >,
" jls" > wrote:


>
> To me, losing a prop on a single-engine tractor aircraft means instant loss
> of power, an aft CG outside of the envelope, and a life-threatening
> encounter with the earth's gravitational pull.

A prop for most light aircraft weights about 80 pounds for a constant
speed unit, much less for a fixed pitch prop. I don't anticipate that
on most GA aircraft the CG will go so far aft that you'll have control
problems,unless already loaded with the CG well aft.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

A quick back-of-the-envelope (unintentional pun) calculation, assuming a
Cherokee/Warrior prop weighs around 25 lb and is 6" back from the datum
shows a shift in CG of about 1.5" aft. Hardly life threatening. OTOH,
without a prop, the glide ability would really be improved, and it might be
very difficult to judge an approach under those circumstances. He might
have just landed really long compared with where he was hoping to set it
down.

My dad used to tell the story of a Corsair prop that departed the a/c during
a runup somewhere in the Pacific. It flew all the way across the airfield
at low level and was found several hundred feet into the jungle at the end
of an impressive swath cut through the bougainvillea. Depending on the
altitude and RPM at the time of loss, I can easily imagine a lost prop
traveling a mile or two before it hit the ground.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

" jls" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> To me, losing a prop on a single-engine tractor aircraft means instant
loss
> of power, an aft CG outside of the envelope, and a life-threatening
> encounter with the earth's gravitational pull.
>

("Bob Chilcoat" wrote)
> My dad used to tell the story of a Corsair prop that departed the a/c
during
> a runup somewhere in the Pacific. It flew all the way across the airfield
> at low level and was found several hundred feet into the jungle at the end
> of an impressive swath cut through the bougainvillea. Depending on the
> altitude and RPM at the time of loss, I can easily imagine a lost prop
> traveling a mile or two before it hit the ground.


Prop thought fully feathered meant something else.


Montblack

"H.P." wrote:
>
> Griswold Airport (MPE) is in the same town where he went down
> (Madison).Wonder how (specifically) the dislodged prop affected the
> aerodynamics of the Warrior and his chances for a controllable glide.

The prop and spinner weighs about 40 pounds. Removing it would have about the same
effect on the center of gravity as adding 40 pounds in the back seat would. With two
people on board and little luggage, the W&B would still be ok. The glide ratio would
improve, since a windmilling prop produces drag.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> Prop thought fully feathered meant something else.

Do you leave the prop feathered while doing a runup on a Corsair (or any
other airplane with a feathering prop)? I wouldn't have thought so.

Bushy wrote:

>>I have been passed by a hubcap, but passed it again pretty soon.
>>--
>
>
> I have been passed by my right rear tyre in a kombi one night many moons
> ago.

Friend of mine got passed by the nosewheel of his 206 while landing.
Never did catch up to it again.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:37:17 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>Do you leave the prop feathered while doing a runup on a Corsair (or any
>other airplane with a feathering prop)? I wouldn't have thought so.

I don't think the Corsair had a full feathering prop. Wouldn't be any
point and would just add more complexity to an already complex
airplane. Never heard any mention of any WWII pilot feathering the
prop on a Corsair, but I don't know everything.

Corky Scott

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:23:11 -0400, Corky Scott
> wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:37:17 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:
>
>>Do you leave the prop feathered while doing a runup on a Corsair (or any
>>other airplane with a feathering prop)? I wouldn't have thought so.
>
>I don't think the Corsair had a full feathering prop. Wouldn't be any
>point and would just add more complexity to an already complex
>airplane. Never heard any mention of any WWII pilot feathering the
>prop on a Corsair, but I don't know everything.
>
>Corky Scott

I don't know everything either (shhh....!!!) but you can't feather the
prop on a Corsair.

Bela P. Havasreti)

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:


> Do you leave the prop feathered while doing a runup on a Corsair (or any
> other airplane with a feathering prop)? I wouldn't have thought so.

I think the "fully feathered" remark was in reference to the
Bougainvillea.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
> I think the "fully feathered" remark was in reference to the
> Bougainvillea.

Ahh. Okay. I guess it's now no secret that I don't know much about botany.
:)

Now I wonder how many other funny gardening jokes have gone over my head...

Hmmm..

Had an acquaintance in the boat business years ago had the 30
ft. boat he was towing pass him down a hill..

Was NOT a good day...

Dave

I might as well give you the rest...

The combo did a headon with a 3/4 ton , trailer tongue went
under, boat up and over, rolled inverted and landed on the hwy at
highway speed..... smashed the cabin flat, remains skidded 200 ft.

The driver was unhurt, but needed a new truck...

Boat was totaled, but a guy bought the remains, built a new
cabin on it, sold it to a friend here who operated it for several yrs.
...

Dave



On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:37:42 -0600, Newps >
wrote:

>
>
>Bushy wrote:
>
>>>I have been passed by a hubcap, but passed it again pretty soon.
>>>--
>>
>>
>> I have been passed by my right rear tyre in a kombi one night many moons
>> ago.
>
>Friend of mine got passed by the nosewheel of his 206 while landing.
>Never did catch up to it again.

Bella

Or any other single engien WWII Fighter.

The P-38 had Curtis Electric Propellers that could be feathered.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:10:13 GMT, Bela P. Havasreti
> wrote:

>

>> Prop thought fully feathered meant something else.
>
> Do you leave the prop feathered while doing a runup on a Corsair (or any
> other airplane with a feathering prop)? I wouldn't have thought so.

I'm sure he meant the prop thought it has wings and could fly...

BT

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
> > I think the "fully feathered" remark was in reference to the
> > Bougainvillea.
>
> Ahh. Okay. I guess it's now no secret that I don't know much about
botany.
> :)
>
> Now I wonder how many other funny gardening jokes have gone over my
head...


Fear not Peter. Post was ornithological, not botanical in nature - and yes,
it was painfully lame.

See, the prop overhears *fully feathered props* and thinks to itself,
"Feathers, cool! Fly prop, be free..." That the prop flew off into the bush
at the end of the runway to roost, well, that was just an added bonus <g>.

OK, now it's beyond lame...

As penance, I will unplug my computer and ship it to Alabama on Monday,
where it will be disassembled, piece by piece, by a manly low wing type.


Montblack

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> OK, now it's beyond lame...

Heh...yes, I think the explanation only made things worse. :) Had you kept
quiet, I would have simply assumed you had made a brilliant joke that I
failed to understand. It sure didn't appear anyone else was going to call
you on it, either.

> As penance, I will unplug my computer and ship it to Alabama on Monday,
> where it will be disassembled, piece by piece, by a manly low wing type.

That smells suspiciously like an event that had already been arranged prior
to your offense. Methinks you'll need a more suitable penance than that.

Pete

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:45:39 -0700, "Bob Gardner" >
wrote:

>A founding member of the Compuserve Aviation Special Interest Group, who is
>regrettably no longer with us, lost the prop on his GlasAir and watched as
>it flew off into the distance....there's a heck of a lot of pressure on the
>back side of the propeller disk. He survived the landing.

I would guess this is not a typical failure though. I'd think a
partial blade separation such as the Lancair 320, or 360 suffered near
Appleton a few years back. You lose part of a blade and it can
literally tear the engine right out of the airplane. This really
ruins the CG.
>

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Bob Gardner
>
>"StellaStar" > wrote in message
...
>> >
>>>
>>>http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--planecrash1014oct14,0,74
>> 34473.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
>>
>> MADISON, Conn. -- The propeller from the plane that crashed into a house
>> on
>> Lovers Lane Monday night has been found a few miles away in Killingworth.
>>
>> Police Chief Paul Jakubson said police received a call Wednesday from a
>> resident of Maple Hill Road in Killingworth, which is 2 to 3 miles from
>> the
>> crash site.
>>
>> So...did it pop off and zing all that way ahead of the crash scene...or
>> drop
>> off before they dropped out of the air?
>

Big John wrote:

> Bella
>
> Or any other single engien WWII Fighter.
>
> The P-38 had Curtis Electric Propellers that could be feathered.

Yep, two of 'em.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:13:05 -0800, Dale > wrote:

>In article >,
> " jls" > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> To me, losing a prop on a single-engine tractor aircraft means instant loss
>> of power, an aft CG outside of the envelope, and a life-threatening
>> encounter with the earth's gravitational pull.
>
>A prop for most light aircraft weights about 80 pounds for a constant
>speed unit, much less for a fixed pitch prop. I don't anticipate that

I have the big 3-blade Hartzel on the Deb. It weighs 83#. The 2-blade
it replaced weighed 57#


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>on most GA aircraft the CG will go so far aft that you'll have control
>problems,unless already loaded with the CG well aft.

>>
>>>To me, losing a prop on a single-engine tractor aircraft means instant loss
>>>of power, an aft CG outside of the envelope, and a life-threatening
>>>encounter with the earth's gravitational pull.

Can't speak for all planes but single engine Cessna's can lose the prop
and not get anywhere near the aft CG. I have already done that
calculation for my 182. Lose the prop and I don't even get to the back
half of the CG envelope.

I got it after a few seconds of reflection. I was concerned initially that
there was a typo somewhere, but I finally figured out what Montblack meant.
I smiled but did not consider it worth a followup. I guess this must mean
I'm smarter than the rest of you :-)

BTW, I got the 25 lb number from a brief call to my A&P. He was just
guessing, too, but at least he's horsed a lot of Cherokee/Warrior props on
and off the crankshaft. Still ain't much of shift in CG.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Peter Duniho" wrote)
> > > I think the "fully feathered" remark was in reference to the
> > > Bougainvillea.
> >
> > Ahh. Okay. I guess it's now no secret that I don't know much about
> botany.
> > :)
> >
> > Now I wonder how many other funny gardening jokes have gone over my
> head...
>
>
> Fear not Peter. Post was ornithological, not botanical in nature - and
yes,
> it was painfully lame.
>
> See, the prop overhears *fully feathered props* and thinks to itself,
> "Feathers, cool! Fly prop, be free..." That the prop flew off into the
bush
> at the end of the runway to roost, well, that was just an added bonus <g>.
>
> OK, now it's beyond lame...
>
> As penance, I will unplug my computer and ship it to Alabama on Monday,
> where it will be disassembled, piece by piece, by a manly low wing type.
>
>
> Montblack
>
>

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message >...
> "H.P." wrote:
> >
> > Griswold Airport (MPE) is in the same town where he went down
> > (Madison).Wonder how (specifically) the dislodged prop affected the
> > aerodynamics of the Warrior and his chances for a controllable glide.
>
> The prop and spinner weighs about 40 pounds. Removing it would have about the same
> effect on the center of gravity as adding 40 pounds in the back seat would. With two
> people on board and little luggage, the W&B would still be ok. The glide ratio would
> improve, since a windmilling prop produces drag.
>
> George Patterson
> If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
> been looking for it.


Have I missed something here, or is there a possibility the prop
departed and fell promptly to the ground while the aircraft glided
several miles in whatever direction before crashing? What's so unusual
about a missing prop being miles from the airplane?

Dan

Sounds to me like it might be a failure to comply with AD 98-02-08,

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD), applicable to
certain Textron Lycoming 320 and 360 series reciprocating engines, that requires
visual inspections of the inside diameter (ID) of the crankshaft for corrosion
pits, and if corrosion pits are found during this inspection, prior to further
flight, performing a magnetic particle inspection (MPI) or fluorescent penetrant
inspection (FPI) of the ID for cracks. In addition, this AD requires reporting
findings of inspections to the FAA. Finally, terminating action to the
inspections of this AD is the application of a preventive treatment coating on
non-corroded crankshafts to prevent corrosion. This amendment is prompted by
reports of cracks in crankshafts originating from corrosion pits in the ID. The
actions specified by this AD are intended to prevent crankshaft failure, which
can result in engine failure, propeller separation, forced landing, and possible
damage to the aircraft. DATES: Effective March 30, 1998.

Demonick

Saw the clip on TV and the complete crank flange (less propeller) was still on
the plane.

Jim