Don't know if there are many NASCAR fans here, but one of the teams planes
crashed today.

Right now there seems to be some conflict of the names of the passengers,
but here is one of the news stories.





Hendrick Motorsports plane crashes, police say
05:32 PM EDT on Sunday, October 24, 2004

By DANIELLE SCHULMAN / WCNC.com


A Hendrick Motorsports Aviation plane headed to the Subway 500 in
Martinsville, Virginia, has crashed in the Bull Mountain area of Virginia,
state police there confirm.

"The plane was en route to Martinsville and they lost it on radar and that's
all the information we have," said one NASCAR official. "We've been in
contact with Rick Hendrick.we just don't have a lot of details at the
moment.we are going to say a prayer for everyone in the Hendick
organization."

Rick Hendrick was not on the plane, say NASCAR officials.

Several high-placed sources inside NASCAR confirm these passengers on the
plane: Tony Stewart's helicopter pilot (who was not piloting the plane), two
people who were piloting the plane, John Hendrick (Rick Hendrick's brother),
Ricky Hendrick, Randy Dorton and his two daughters.

The FAA and NTSB are investigating.

Bull Mountain lies to the west of Martinsville in the foothills of the Blue
Ridge Mountains.

Hendrick Motorsports Aviation is based out of Concord, N.C.

A pilot for the company says that they own about 11 or 12 planes. The pilot
says he was still waiting to hear what happened and that he had heard
something had happened.

Those planes fly all over the country, he said.

The airport the plane was heading into is called the Blue Ridge Airport and
is eight miles southwest of Martinsville.

This airport is much smaller than the Charlotte-Douglas International
Airport, with only two runways.

There is no control tower in the immediate area. The planes that fly into
airport are supposed to get clearance to land from Greensboro. About 62
flights per day land at the airport.



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Chuck wrote:

> Don't know if there are many NASCAR fans here, but one of the teams planes
> crashed today.
>
> Right now there seems to be some conflict of the names of the passengers,
> but here is one of the news stories.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hendrick Motorsports plane crashes, police say
> 05:32 PM EDT on Sunday, October 24, 2004
>
> By DANIELLE SCHULMAN / WCNC.com
>
>
> A Hendrick Motorsports Aviation plane headed to the Subway 500 in
> Martinsville, Virginia, has crashed in the Bull Mountain area of Virginia,
> state police there confirm.
>
> "The plane was en route to Martinsville and they lost it on radar and that's
> all the information we have," said one NASCAR official. "We've been in
> contact with Rick Hendrick.we just don't have a lot of details at the
> moment.we are going to say a prayer for everyone in the Hendick
> organization."
>
> Rick Hendrick was not on the plane, say NASCAR officials.
>
> Several high-placed sources inside NASCAR confirm these passengers on the
> plane: Tony Stewart's helicopter pilot (who was not piloting the plane), two
> people who were piloting the plane, John Hendrick (Rick Hendrick's brother),
> Ricky Hendrick, Randy Dorton and his two daughters.
>
> The FAA and NTSB are investigating.
>
> Bull Mountain lies to the west of Martinsville in the foothills of the Blue
> Ridge Mountains.
>
> Hendrick Motorsports Aviation is based out of Concord, N.C.
>
> A pilot for the company says that they own about 11 or 12 planes. The pilot
> says he was still waiting to hear what happened and that he had heard
> something had happened.
>
> Those planes fly all over the country, he said.
>
> The airport the plane was heading into is called the Blue Ridge Airport and
> is eight miles southwest of Martinsville.
>
> This airport is much smaller than the Charlotte-Douglas International
> Airport, with only two runways.
>
> There is no control tower in the immediate area. The planes that fly into
> airport are supposed to get clearance to land from Greensboro. About 62
> flights per day land at the airport.
>
>
>
updated often
http://jayski.thatsracin.com/cupnews.htm

N.C. TV station
http://www.wral.com

Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the 3211
ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the 4300
ft
minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.

Sat deal, for sure.



"Chuck" > wrote in message
. ..
> Don't know if there are many NASCAR fans here, but one of the teams planes
> crashed today.
>
> Right now there seems to be some conflict of the names of the passengers,
> but here is one of the news stories.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hendrick Motorsports plane crashes, police say
> 05:32 PM EDT on Sunday, October 24, 2004
>
> By DANIELLE SCHULMAN / WCNC.com
>
>
> A Hendrick Motorsports Aviation plane headed to the Subway 500 in
> Martinsville, Virginia, has crashed in the Bull Mountain area of Virginia,
> state police there confirm.
>
> "The plane was en route to Martinsville and they lost it on radar and
> that's
> all the information we have," said one NASCAR official. "We've been in
> contact with Rick Hendrick.we just don't have a lot of details at the
> moment.we are going to say a prayer for everyone in the Hendick
> organization."
>
> Rick Hendrick was not on the plane, say NASCAR officials.
>
> Several high-placed sources inside NASCAR confirm these passengers on the
> plane: Tony Stewart's helicopter pilot (who was not piloting the plane),
> two
> people who were piloting the plane, John Hendrick (Rick Hendrick's
> brother),
> Ricky Hendrick, Randy Dorton and his two daughters.
>
> The FAA and NTSB are investigating.
>
> Bull Mountain lies to the west of Martinsville in the foothills of the
> Blue
> Ridge Mountains.
>
> Hendrick Motorsports Aviation is based out of Concord, N.C.
>
> A pilot for the company says that they own about 11 or 12 planes. The
> pilot
> says he was still waiting to hear what happened and that he had heard
> something had happened.
>
> Those planes fly all over the country, he said.
>
> The airport the plane was heading into is called the Blue Ridge Airport
> and
> is eight miles southwest of Martinsville.
>
> This airport is much smaller than the Charlotte-Douglas International
> Airport, with only two runways.
>
> There is no control tower in the immediate area. The planes that fly into
> airport are supposed to get clearance to land from Greensboro. About 62
> flights per day land at the airport.
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
>
>

"quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...

<paste of copywrighted material>

Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in
Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most dangerous facilities to
fly into for races.

<end paste>

Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring
to. For the sake of this issue, lets assume that he was not misquoted
nor paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.

And, yea.. I looked at the plate for RNAV 12.. the rocks ARE close but
they do have separation if you fly the approach as charted...

Dave

OtisWinslow wrote:
> Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the 3211
> ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the 4300
> ft
> minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
>
> Sat deal, for sure.
>
>
>
> "Chuck" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Don't know if there are many NASCAR fans here, but one of the teams planes
>>crashed today.
>>
>>Right now there seems to be some conflict of the names of the passengers,
>>but here is one of the news stories.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Hendrick Motorsports plane crashes, police say
>>05:32 PM EDT on Sunday, October 24, 2004
>>
>>By DANIELLE SCHULMAN / WCNC.com
>>
>>
>>A Hendrick Motorsports Aviation plane headed to the Subway 500 in
>>Martinsville, Virginia, has crashed in the Bull Mountain area of Virginia,
>>state police there confirm.
>>
>>"The plane was en route to Martinsville and they lost it on radar and
>>that's
>>all the information we have," said one NASCAR official. "We've been in
>>contact with Rick Hendrick.we just don't have a lot of details at the
>>moment.we are going to say a prayer for everyone in the Hendick
>>organization."
>>
>>Rick Hendrick was not on the plane, say NASCAR officials.
>>
>>Several high-placed sources inside NASCAR confirm these passengers on the
>>plane: Tony Stewart's helicopter pilot (who was not piloting the plane),
>>two
>>people who were piloting the plane, John Hendrick (Rick Hendrick's
>>brother),
>>Ricky Hendrick, Randy Dorton and his two daughters.
>>
>>The FAA and NTSB are investigating.
>>
>>Bull Mountain lies to the west of Martinsville in the foothills of the
>>Blue
>>Ridge Mountains.
>>
>>Hendrick Motorsports Aviation is based out of Concord, N.C.
>>
>>A pilot for the company says that they own about 11 or 12 planes. The
>>pilot
>>says he was still waiting to hear what happened and that he had heard
>>something had happened.
>>
>>Those planes fly all over the country, he said.
>>
>>The airport the plane was heading into is called the Blue Ridge Airport
>>and
>>is eight miles southwest of Martinsville.
>>
>>This airport is much smaller than the Charlotte-Douglas International
>>Airport, with only two runways.
>>
>>There is no control tower in the immediate area. The planes that fly into
>>airport are supposed to get clearance to land from Greensboro. About 62
>>flights per day land at the airport.
>>
>>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
>>
>>
>
>
>

"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
...
> Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the
3211
> ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the 4300
> ft
> minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
>
> Sat deal, for sure.
>

I would have thought that a plane such as the one crashed, would have a GPS
that had a terrain warning feature, no? Also, what kind of electronic aids,
if any, did the destination airport have?

My condolences to all involved.
--
Jim in NC


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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It is a steep approach...

"Dave S" > wrote in message ink.net...
> "quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...
>
> <paste of copywrighted material>
>
> Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most
> dangerous facilities to fly into for races.
>
> <end paste>
>
> Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring to. For the sake of this issue, lets assume that
> he was not misquoted nor paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.
>
> And, yea.. I looked at the plate for RNAV 12.. the rocks ARE close but they do have separation if you fly the approach
> as charted...
>
> Dave
>
> OtisWinslow wrote:
>> Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the 3211
>> ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the 4300 ft
>> minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
>>
>> Sat deal, for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chuck" > wrote in message . ..
>>
>>>Don't know if there are many NASCAR fans here, but one of the teams planes
>>>crashed today.
>>>
>>>Right now there seems to be some conflict of the names of the passengers,
>>>but here is one of the news stories.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hendrick Motorsports plane crashes, police say
>>>05:32 PM EDT on Sunday, October 24, 2004
>>>
>>>By DANIELLE SCHULMAN / WCNC.com
>>>
>>>
>>>A Hendrick Motorsports Aviation plane headed to the Subway 500 in
>>>Martinsville, Virginia, has crashed in the Bull Mountain area of Virginia,
>>>state police there confirm.
>>>
>>>"The plane was en route to Martinsville and they lost it on radar and that's
>>>all the information we have," said one NASCAR official. "We've been in
>>>contact with Rick Hendrick.we just don't have a lot of details at the
>>>moment.we are going to say a prayer for everyone in the Hendick
>>>organization."
>>>
>>>Rick Hendrick was not on the plane, say NASCAR officials.
>>>
>>>Several high-placed sources inside NASCAR confirm these passengers on the
>>>plane: Tony Stewart's helicopter pilot (who was not piloting the plane), two
>>>people who were piloting the plane, John Hendrick (Rick Hendrick's brother),
>>>Ricky Hendrick, Randy Dorton and his two daughters.
>>>
>>>The FAA and NTSB are investigating.
>>>
>>>Bull Mountain lies to the west of Martinsville in the foothills of the Blue
>>>Ridge Mountains.
>>>
>>>Hendrick Motorsports Aviation is based out of Concord, N.C.
>>>
>>>A pilot for the company says that they own about 11 or 12 planes. The pilot
>>>says he was still waiting to hear what happened and that he had heard
>>>something had happened.
>>>
>>>Those planes fly all over the country, he said.
>>>
>>>The airport the plane was heading into is called the Blue Ridge Airport and
>>>is eight miles southwest of Martinsville.
>>>
>>>This airport is much smaller than the Charlotte-Douglas International
>>>Airport, with only two runways.
>>>
>>>There is no control tower in the immediate area. The planes that fly into
>>>airport are supposed to get clearance to land from Greensboro. About 62
>>>flights per day land at the airport.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---
>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...
>
> <paste of copywrighted material>
>
> Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in
> Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most dangerous facilities to fly
> into for races.
>
> <end paste>
>
> Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring to.
> For the sake of this issue, lets assume that he was not misquoted nor
> paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.
>

Dave,

Talladega: Mix smoke from 100,000+ camping race fans with a narrow temp /
dew point spread and toss in the very close proximity of the runway to the
main grandstand of the track. I know I'd be (as we say in racing...) "up on
the wheel."

As for Martinsville, I have only flown in there once on a CAVU morning at
sunrise. It's a very nice airport but the surrounding terrain is quite
hilly which is probably not a good thing when you are shooting an approach
in actual IMC.

The news of the crash certainly put a damper on what was already a cruddy
week (WX wise...) in Martinsville.

My prayers go out to the Hendrick family and the families of the others who
were on board.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL
Technician - NASCAR on FOX / NBC

"Dave S" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...
>
> <paste of copywrighted material>
>
> Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in
> Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most dangerous facilities to
> fly into for races.
>
> <end paste>
>
> Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring
> to. For the sake of this issue, lets assume that he was not misquoted
> nor paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.
>
> And, yea.. I looked at the plate for RNAV 12.. the rocks ARE close but
> they do have separation if you fly the approach as charted...
>
> Dave
>
> OtisWinslow wrote:
> > Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the
3211
> > ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the
4300
> > ft
> > minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
> >
> > Sat deal, for sure.

The initial FAA report says they had executed a missed approach. As someone
pointed out on rec.aviation.ifr, the missed approach calls for a climb to
3000. The initial approach fix (IAF) where they would go for a another
attempt, calls for an altitude of 5500. On "many" approaches these
altitudes are the same, but if on this approach you were to forget to climb
from the 3000 to the 5500 on your way back to the IAF you just might hit
Bull Mountain...

John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Just wanted to add a little to this thread. It is my understanding
that were coming in on runway 30 not runway 12. Check approach plate
LOC R30 at MTV. A missed approach should have had then in a right
turn climbing to 2600 head away from Bull Mountian 3211.

Also, here are some excerpts from an article on ThatsRacin.com:

The plane also lacked a ground positioning warning system that could
have helped warn the pilots about the mountain they faced in front of
them.

Even without the equipment, the plane had a procedure to follow after
missing the landing.

After missing the runway on Sunday, the plane should have turned
sharply to the right, and climbed back up to 2,600 feet above sea
level to either try again or head to another airport.

Instead the plane ended up about seven miles straight ahead of the
runway. It's unclear at what elevation it hit the mountainside.

Rayner said he doesn't know why the pilots didn't follow the
government-approved procedure for a missed landing at Blue Ridge
Airport.

At the Blue Ridge Airport on Tuesday, pilots who fly in and out of the
airport questioned what could have gone wrong. "If you fly by the
procedures, it's extremely safe," said Matt Broughton, a Roanoke
attorney who has been flying for 19 years.

Grimes, too, said he was looking for a reason as to why the plane
crashed into the mountain. "I think all of us who fly instruments are
looking for a reason why," he said. "If you look, this (mountain) is
the only point on the chart marked as dangerous. It's the highest
point out there."

Here is the link if you want to read the entire article:
http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/10021848.htm

"John Clonts" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave S" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> "quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...
>>
>> <paste of copywrighted material>
>>
>> Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in
>> Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most dangerous facilities to
>> fly into for races.
>>
>> <end paste>
>>
>> Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring
>> to. For the sake of this issue, lets assume that he was not misquoted
>> nor paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.
>>
>> And, yea.. I looked at the plate for RNAV 12.. the rocks ARE close but
>> they do have separation if you fly the approach as charted...
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> OtisWinslow wrote:
>> > Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the
> 3211
>> > ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the
> 4300
>> > ft
>> > minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
>> >
>> > Sat deal, for sure.
>
> The initial FAA report says they had executed a missed approach. As
> someone
> pointed out on rec.aviation.ifr, the missed approach calls for a climb to
> 3000. The initial approach fix (IAF) where they would go for a another
> attempt, calls for an altitude of 5500. On "many" approaches these
> altitudes are the same, but if on this approach you were to forget to
> climb
> from the 3000 to the 5500 on your way back to the IAF you just might hit
> Bull Mountain...
>

Are we looking at the right plate???

The plate that I have shows the IAF at 2600 ? ? ?
Maintain 2600 to FAF, then a steeper-than-normal 3.42 deg descent to MAP, 5
nm from FAF ?.
MAP (on my plate) is climbing Left turn to 3000 back to hold over the IAF.
Others have said this was a climbing RIGHT turn, which would actually make
more sense.

In either case, it obviously expects that you will not wait to start MAP too
late beyond the stated 5nm from FAF. You have only about 7 miles before the
serious terrain starts, so you better get that 180 done quickly.

"John Clonts" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave S" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> "quote" on CNN's news article on 10/25/04 about the crash...
>>
>> <paste of copywrighted material>
>>
>> Driver Rusty Wallace, also a pilot, said he considered the airports in
>> Talladega, Ala., and Martinsville the two most dangerous facilities to
>> fly into for races.
>>
>> <end paste>
>>
>> Anyone care to comment on this, or what exactly he might be referring
>> to. For the sake of this issue, lets assume that he was not misquoted
>> nor paraphrased by some well meaning journalist.
>>
>> And, yea.. I looked at the plate for RNAV 12.. the rocks ARE close but
>> they do have separation if you fly the approach as charted...
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> OtisWinslow wrote:
>> > Look at the approach chart for the RNAV 12 at MTV. Bull Mountain is the
> 3211
>> > ft obstacle very close to the FAF. They'd have to have gone below the
> 4300
>> > ft
>> > minimum for that segment prior to the FAF.
>> >
>> > Sat deal, for sure.
>
> The initial FAA report says they had executed a missed approach. As
> someone
> pointed out on rec.aviation.ifr, the missed approach calls for a climb to
> 3000. The initial approach fix (IAF) where they would go for a another
> attempt, calls for an altitude of 5500. On "many" approaches these
> altitudes are the same, but if on this approach you were to forget to
> climb
> from the 3000 to the 5500 on your way back to the IAF you just might hit
> Bull Mountain...
>
> John Clonts
> Temple, Texas
> N7NZ
>
>

Are we looking at the right plate???

The plate that I have shows the IAF at 2600, not 5500 ? ? ?
Maintain 2600 to FAF, then a steeper-than-normal 3.42 deg descent to MAP, 5
nm from FAF ?.
MAP (on my plate) is climbing Left turn to 3000 back to hold over the IAF.
Others have said this was a climbing RIGHT turn, which would actually make
more sense.

In either case, it obviously expects that you will not wait to start MAP too
late beyond the stated 5nm from FAF. You have only about 7 or 8 more miles
before the
serious terrain starts, so you better get that 180 done quickly.