I flew over to Apple Valley (APV) to put in a little cross country time
with a GPS MAP 196 in a Cessna 150 - and to indulge in a $150 diet-Pepsi.
This particular airplane is the only available rental at my home patch at
IYK, which we locals lovingly refer to as Inyokern International. (If you
have a couple airplanes and want to be your own boss, there's an empty FBO
facility there begging for occupation. I'm sure the airport management
district will give you a good deal. But that's, as they say, another story.
Back to Apple Valley.
After dumping my waste water, replacing it with the diet soda, and
getting the kinks out of my knee and back, I wandered back to the airplane.
It had been in plain sight all the time, just across the tarmac from a pilot
friendly little cafe. So I did a cursory walk-around, wiggling a few things
here and there and checked the oil. The trip over only burned an hour's fuel
out of full tanks so I was good to go.
Mind you, I have less than ten hours in this airplane so I'm not
intimately familiar with all its quirks. I know it is well maintained and
the owner is the CFI that brought me back into flying after a 25-year
layoff. This morning, the airmass over the Antelope Valley was rock solid.
My airspeed was within two knots going and coming. The airplane trimmed out
and flew with only an occasional nudge to keep the altitude within ±40 feet.
My only gripe is an out of trim condition that requires a tiny bit of
pressure on the right rudder pedal to keep the ball in the cage.
The engine started without priming. I taxied to the end of R-18, the
favored calm wind runway, did the complete "Before Takeoff" checklist and
waited for Cessna in front of me to depart. When they lifted off. I
announced my intentions (non-towered field) rolled onto the runway, shoved
the throttle in and started the takeoff roll.
The owner likes us to hold a little back pressure on the takeoff to ease
wear and tear on the nose gear, so it takes a bit longer to gather speed and
lift off. No sweat, APV R-18 is 6,498 feet.
The plane lifted off just as it had before, then....
WHAT THE HECK IS THAT NOISE!?!
Something was rattling and thumping hard enough and loud enough to
be heard over the muffling of my passive headset. It sounded mechanical, but
didn't ding like metal. Engine was smooth. Carb heat was off. Controls felt
fine. Hmmm, did I screw the dip-stick in after I checked the oil? Oil
pressure was good. No streaks on the side windows.
Actually, I'd had an inkling something amiss about halfway through
the takeoff roll, but it didn't register as anything serious. I dropped the
nose, ready to cut the throttle and land straight ahead but didn't like the
perspective. I rejected the notion to land on the crossing runway at the
end. My choice was a shallow left turn at 500 AGL into a close-aboard
downwind. I pulled full carb heat and brought the power back to hold 80K and
altitude.
The Cessna that departed in front of me stayed in the pattern for a
normal downwind to shoot T&Gs. I called on the CTAF and told him I had a
sick airplane and asked him to extend downwind and let me have the runway.
He graciously obliged, as did the airplane ready to take the runway. Just
past midfield, I dropped ten-degrees of flaps. No change in the rattle,
thump.
I did a shallow 180 just past the approach end, feeling confident that I
had plenty of energy in case the fan should stop spinning. Lined up, I
dropped another 10 degrees of flaps. The landing was a kisser. I should do
that every time. I turned off the runway at the first available
intersection. By that time I had the carb-heat off but didn't mess with the
flaps. Instead of turning onto the taxiway, I drove straight ahead into a
resident hangar area. While the plane was still rolling, I pulled the
moisture to lean-off, switched off the mags, and opened the master switch.
Here's the embarrassing part. The noise? When I'd shut the door, I'd
left the tail end of the seat belt strap hanging outside-just about two-,
maybe three-inches of it. It was apparent, because the door was wedged shut
and required a bit of shoulder pressure to open.
That didn't stop me from going over the airplane with a preflight as
extensive as I'd do knowing that someone else had flown it.
Thirty minutes later, with a rehydrated mouth and the puckers
smoothed out of the other orifice, I took off again. As soon and the plane
was off the ground, I dropped the nose and let it accelerate flying just a
few feet off the surface, imminently ready to cut power and land if the
noise came back.
The flight home was great. I got to watch Torch-27 shoot an ILS
approach into Palmdale. Torch-27 is an F-117. I learned enough about the GPS
MAP 196 to be confident of using it cross-country.
...and I added one tiny detail to the Before Taxi checklist.

On 12/14/04 8:16 PM, in article XfMvd.4651$Z%1.9@trnddc03, "Casey Wilson"
> wrote:

> Here's the embarrassing part. The noise? When I'd shut the door, I'd
> left the tail end of the seat belt strap hanging outside-just about two-,
> maybe three-inches of it. It was apparent, because the door was wedged shut
> and required a bit of shoulder pressure to open.
> That didn't stop me from going over the airplane with a preflight as
> extensive as I'd do knowing that someone else had flown it.
> Thirty minutes later, with a rehydrated mouth and the puckers
> smoothed out of the other orifice, I took off again. As soon and the plane
> was off the ground, I dropped the nose and let it accelerate flying just a
> few feet off the surface, imminently ready to cut power and land if the
> noise came back.
> The flight home was great. I got to watch Torch-27 shoot an ILS
> approach into Palmdale. Torch-27 is an F-117. I learned enough about the GPS
> MAP 196 to be confident of using it cross-country.
> ...and I added one tiny detail to the Before Taxi checklist.
>

I had the same thing happen to me on one of my x-c's during training. It
sounded like it was overhead and I thought I had left the gas cap loose.
Lesson learned.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

The Wizard's 2004 Christmas newsletter
http://www.wizardofdraws.com/main/xmas04.html

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:XfMvd.4651$Z%1.9@trnddc03...
>
> I flew over to Apple Valley (APV) to put in a little cross country
> time with a GPS MAP 196 in a Cessna 150 - and to indulge in a $150
> diet-Pepsi.

Casey,

Thanks for sharing this and for doing so honestly...and congrats on keeping
your cool.

I just love how people are willing to help each other even if it through the
occasional oops.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ
(I'm taking my CFI with me tomorrow on a little XC jaunt as a recurring
training exercise)

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BDE5017D.3C5DE%jeffbTAKEOUTALLCAPS@wizardofdr aws.com...
> On 12/14/04 8:16 PM, in article XfMvd.4651$Z%1.9@trnddc03, "Casey Wilson"
> > wrote:
>
> > Here's the embarrassing part. The noise? When I'd shut the door,
I'd
> > left the tail end of the seat belt strap hanging outside-just about
two-,
>
> I had the same thing happen to me on one of my x-c's during training. It
> sounded like it was overhead and I thought I had left the gas cap loose.
> Lesson learned.
> --

I did leave the gas cap off my 172 once, after I dipped the tanks during
preflight. I had a funny radio problem and I called my CFI on his mobile,
turned out he was hanging around at another ramp so I taxied it over to show
it to him. He couldn't figure anything out so I went to taxi back. I noticed
a smell of fuel, much stronger than usual, and then I saw the trickle coming
down the window. My penance was to spend 3 hours scrubbing fuel off every
inch of the plane. In the roughly ten minutes the engines were running I
think it sucked half the tank out. Hate to think what would happen in
flight.

-cwk.

> . . . While the plane was still rolling, I pulled the
> moisture to lean-off, switched off the mags, and opened the master switch.

What is the purpose of the moisture control?
Just wonderin' :)

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

I left the dipstick door open on a Cessna 182RG once. Flying from the left
seat I never noticed it. I was back taxing down the runway to the run up
area when I passed another plane holding short on an adjoining taxiway. He
called me on the radio to tell me (and the rest of the world) about the oil
door. I shut down in the run up area and closed it while the other pilot
did his runup and took off. We both exchanged a wave and a smile.... an
embarrassed one on my part. Funny how it became a habit of checking that
door when I was in the right seat and a student was in the left.

Oh, and I've also done the seatbelt thing, but never actually took off in
that condition.... because it is part of my after run up, pre takeoff check.

The captain is ready for take off, so please fasten your seat belts and
return your flight attendant to her upright position.

Jim



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:03:23 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
> wrote:

> In the roughly ten minutes the engines were running I
>think it sucked half the tank out. Hate to think what would happen in
>flight.


The one time I saw this, a guy left BOTH caps off his 185. On climb
out you could see a significant spray (more like running water
upwards) out of each gas tank. Unicom notified him of the problem and
he flew the pattern and came back. He ended up with about 1/4 tanks
on each side after one hop around the patch! Not a good thing. He
refueled, triple checked the caps and went on his way.

z

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-25E000.22090514122004@shawnews...
>> . . . While the plane was still rolling, I pulled the
>> moisture to lean-off, switched off the mags, and opened the master
>> switch.
>
> What is the purpose of the moisture control?
> Just wonderin' :)
>
> Tony

If it were me in that instance, I'd want a "moisture control" to dry the
seat under me!!

;O)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"zatatime" > wrote in message news:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:03:23 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
> > wrote:
>
>> In the roughly ten minutes the engines were running I
>>think it sucked half the tank out. Hate to think what would happen in
>>flight.
>
>
> The one time I saw this, a guy left BOTH caps off his 185. On climb
> out you could see a significant spray (more like running water
> upwards) out of each gas tank. Unicom notified him of the problem and
> he flew the pattern and came back. He ended up with about 1/4 tanks
> on each side after one hop around the patch!

Sure.

moo

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:16:39 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote:

>Here's the embarrassing part. The noise? When I'd shut the door, I'd
>left the tail end of the seat belt strap hanging outside-just about two-,
>maybe three-inches of it.

You haven't been truly embarrassed until you've joined the earth-towing
society; or done the maneuver termed "turns around a tie-down point",
especially if there are a number of observers around. :-) I have done
both.

A friend did a variation on that. He taxi'd to the runway, took off, and
noted his Warrior felt very right wing heavy. Careful examination revealed
that he was towing a concrete filled tire from the tiedown ring!

He flew a normal pattern, in full view of many of the town folk, and landed
uneventfully.

We painted a pair of wings on the tire!


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Then there was the guy taxiing out to the run-up area with his dog in tow,
on a leash. Geeze! Good thing he didn't have his kids with him! :)

-Frank

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:XfMvd.4651$Z%1.9@trnddc03...
>
> I flew over to Apple Valley (APV) to put in a little cross country
> time with a GPS MAP 196 in a Cessna 150 - and to indulge in a $150
> diet-Pepsi. This particular airplane is the only available rental at my
> home patch at IYK, which we locals lovingly refer to as Inyokern
> International. (If you have a couple airplanes and want to be your own
> boss, there's an empty FBO facility there begging for occupation. I'm sure
> the airport management district will give you a good deal. But that's, as
> they say, another story. Back to Apple Valley.
> After dumping my waste water, replacing it with the diet soda, and
> getting the kinks out of my knee and back, I wandered back to the
> airplane. It had been in plain sight all the time, just across the tarmac
> from a pilot friendly little cafe. So I did a cursory walk-around,
> wiggling a few things here and there and checked the oil. The trip over
> only burned an hour's fuel out of full tanks so I was good to go.
> Mind you, I have less than ten hours in this airplane so I'm not
> intimately familiar with all its quirks. I know it is well maintained and
> the owner is the CFI that brought me back into flying after a 25-year
> layoff. This morning, the airmass over the Antelope Valley was rock solid.
> My airspeed was within two knots going and coming. The airplane trimmed
> out and flew with only an occasional nudge to keep the altitude within ±40
> feet. My only gripe is an out of trim condition that requires a tiny bit
> of pressure on the right rudder pedal to keep the ball in the cage.
> The engine started without priming. I taxied to the end of R-18,
> the favored calm wind runway, did the complete "Before Takeoff" checklist
> and waited for Cessna in front of me to depart. When they lifted off. I
> announced my intentions (non-towered field) rolled onto the runway, shoved
> the throttle in and started the takeoff roll.
> The owner likes us to hold a little back pressure on the takeoff to ease
> wear and tear on the nose gear, so it takes a bit longer to gather speed
> and lift off. No sweat, APV R-18 is 6,498 feet.
> The plane lifted off just as it had before, then....
> WHAT THE HECK IS THAT NOISE!?!
> Something was rattling and thumping hard enough and loud enough to
> be heard over the muffling of my passive headset. It sounded mechanical,
> but didn't ding like metal. Engine was smooth. Carb heat was off. Controls
> felt fine. Hmmm, did I screw the dip-stick in after I checked the oil? Oil
> pressure was good. No streaks on the side windows.
> Actually, I'd had an inkling something amiss about halfway through
> the takeoff roll, but it didn't register as anything serious. I dropped
> the nose, ready to cut the throttle and land straight ahead but didn't
> like the perspective. I rejected the notion to land on the crossing runway
> at the end. My choice was a shallow left turn at 500 AGL into a
> close-aboard downwind. I pulled full carb heat and brought the power back
> to hold 80K and altitude.
> The Cessna that departed in front of me stayed in the pattern for a
> normal downwind to shoot T&Gs. I called on the CTAF and told him I had a
> sick airplane and asked him to extend downwind and let me have the runway.
> He graciously obliged, as did the airplane ready to take the runway. Just
> past midfield, I dropped ten-degrees of flaps. No change in the rattle,
> thump.
> I did a shallow 180 just past the approach end, feeling confident that
> I had plenty of energy in case the fan should stop spinning. Lined up, I
> dropped another 10 degrees of flaps. The landing was a kisser. I should do
> that every time. I turned off the runway at the first available
> intersection. By that time I had the carb-heat off but didn't mess with
> the flaps. Instead of turning onto the taxiway, I drove straight ahead
> into a resident hangar area. While the plane was still rolling, I pulled
> the moisture to lean-off, switched off the mags, and opened the master
> switch.
> Here's the embarrassing part. The noise? When I'd shut the door,
> I'd left the tail end of the seat belt strap hanging outside-just about
> two-, maybe three-inches of it. It was apparent, because the door was
> wedged shut and required a bit of shoulder pressure to open.
> That didn't stop me from going over the airplane with a preflight
> as extensive as I'd do knowing that someone else had flown it.
> Thirty minutes later, with a rehydrated mouth and the puckers
> smoothed out of the other orifice, I took off again. As soon and the plane
> was off the ground, I dropped the nose and let it accelerate flying just a
> few feet off the surface, imminently ready to cut power and land if the
> noise came back.
> The flight home was great. I got to watch Torch-27 shoot an ILS
> approach into Palmdale. Torch-27 is an F-117. I learned enough about the
> GPS MAP 196 to be confident of using it cross-country.
> ...and I added one tiny detail to the Before Taxi checklist.
>

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:03:23 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
> > wrote:
>
> > In the roughly ten minutes the engines were running I
> >think it sucked half the tank out. Hate to think what would happen in
> >flight.
>
>
> The one time I saw this, a guy left BOTH caps off his 185. On climb
> out you could see a significant spray (more like running water
> upwards) out of each gas tank. Unicom notified him of the problem and
> he flew the pattern and came back. He ended up with about 1/4 tanks
> on each side after one hop around the patch! Not a good thing. He
> refueled, triple checked the caps and went on his way.
>

Not to mention that at $4.50/gal at my home field, this is an expensive
mistake.

-cwk.

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:XfMvd.4651$Z%1.9@trnddc03...

> The plane lifted off just as it had before, then....
> WHAT THE HECK IS THAT NOISE!?!
> Something was rattling and thumping hard enough and loud enough to
> be heard over the muffling of my passive headset.

<snip>

As I read your story, the seatbelt was the first thing that came to mind as
the cause. Same thing happened to me once, but my instructor warned me about
checking for a flapping belt because it makes a huge amount of noise. So
when I took off and heard a racket, I had a good idea about what was wrong.
After I climbed to pattern height, I opened my door and pulled the belt in.
That thing was flapping pretty violently I have to say.

If a flapping seat belt is all that happens to you, you're blessed. I got
lost on my first solo cross-country, which was pretty embarrasing. I forgot
to close a flight plan once. Once, I was taking up one of my first
passengers after getting my ticket and forgot to push the mixture in when
starting the plane. I nearly killed the battery before I noticed it. I flew
on the leeward side of a mountain in an extreme headwind [holy crap].
Somebody stop me! :)

-Trent
PP-ASEL

Casey Wilson wrote :
> Something was rattling and thumping hard enough and loud enough
to
>be heard over the muffling of my passive headset.

I figured it out when I read this sentence. You're not the first
and you certainly won't be the last. Just be glad that it was only
the strap hanging out. I saw a student that took off with the entire
passenger seat buckle hanging out the passenger door. That metal
buckle banging against the fuselage rattled him enough that he made an
immediate off-airport landing in a field just past the end of the
runway. Fortunately for him, he didn't damage the airplane in the
landing and it just had to be towed back to the airport. I was one of
the first ones on the scene and when he described the noise, I told him
to walk around and check the passenger door. I'll bet it took him a
long time to live that one down :-)

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-25E000.22090514122004@shawnews...
>> . . . While the plane was still rolling, I pulled the
>> moisture to lean-off, switched off the mags, and opened the master
>> switch.
>
> What is the purpose of the moisture control?
> Just wonderin' :)

PHHHBBBTTTT! Thanks, Tony. Gotta remember to do my proofreading check
list!

Mixture. The one with the red knob.

I too had this happend to me in a Cessna 152. It was the passanger
side belt. I do a very detailed pre-flight, but still missed it. I
also came quickly back to the airport, and shook my head in disbelief
at the seat belt. I know have one additional item on MY 152 checklist.
Good work being calm. That wasn't my worst story, but another post.

Now, that was dumb. A 185 has bladders, and leaving the caps off can
pull the bladder retention snaps off inside the wing and collapse the
tank. Filling a partially collapsed tank can mislead the pilot into
thinking he has full tanks, and water can get trapped in the resulting
wrinkles along the bottom. If the bottom is pulled up some, it will
hold the fuel level sender up and give erroneous gauge indications.
Those bladders need inspection after such an event.
Most bladder-equipped Cessnas have an AD against the fuel caps
forcing an annual inspection of the o-ring seal. A broken or crumbling
seal can do the same thing as a missing cap: draw air out of the tank
faster than the vent can balance the pressure, and
fuel loss is the result.

Dan

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:30:17 -0500, "Happy Dog"
> wrote:

>> The one time I saw this, a guy left BOTH caps off his 185. On climb
>> out you could see a significant spray (more like running water
>> upwards) out of each gas tank. Unicom notified him of the problem and
>> he flew the pattern and came back. He ended up with about 1/4 tanks
>> on each side after one hop around the patch!
>
>Sure.
>
>moo

I'm assuming this means you believe there is no truth to what I've
typed. Would it help if I told you it was an airline captain? If
you'd like to give me your phone number I can have the operator who I
am still friends with call you to validate the story, and probably
offer more antics of this individual. On second thought you're
probably not worth the price of the call.

*squawk*

z

"zatatime" > wrote in message
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:30:17 -0500, "Happy Dog"
>
>>> The one time I saw this, a guy left BOTH caps off his 185. On climb
>>> out you could see a significant spray (more like running water
>>> upwards) out of each gas tank. Unicom notified him of the problem and
>>> he flew the pattern and came back. He ended up with about 1/4 tanks
>>> on each side after one hop around the patch!
>>
>>Sure.
>
> I'm assuming this means you believe there is no truth to what I've
> typed.

I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate. But I
don't doubt that it was a sobering experience.

moo

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:53:32 -0500, "Happy Dog"
> wrote:

>> I'm assuming this means you believe there is no truth to what I've
>> typed.
>
>I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
>happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate. But I
>don't doubt that it was a sobering experience.

No hyperbole at all. Since it's usenet, of course you're entitled to
your opinion, but what I saw was not part of usenet, nor were any of
the other witnesses. I'm sure each airplane is different due to the
amount of lift generated, and other factors. This airplane lost most
of its fuel once around the patch.

z

"zatatime" > wrote in message
>
>>I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
>>happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate. But I
>>don't doubt that it was a sobering experience.
>
> No hyperbole at all. Since it's usenet, of course you're entitled to
> your opinion, but what I saw was not part of usenet, nor were any of
> the other witnesses. I'm sure each airplane is different due to the
> amount of lift generated, and other factors. This airplane lost most
> of its fuel once around the patch.

Not each 185. This doesn't come even close to the incidents I'm familiar
with. But I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of this mistake. It can
easily have fatal consequences.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:
>
> I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
> happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate.

It happened to a friend of mine in a Grumman. The fuel *does* drain at that
rate. He lost five gallons out of one tank and never reached pattern altitude
(did a fast 360 at about 400').

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
>
> Happy Dog wrote:
>>
>> I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
>> happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate.
>
> It happened to a friend of mine in a Grumman. The fuel *does* drain at
> that
> rate. He lost five gallons out of one tank and never reached pattern
> altitude
> (did a fast 360 at about 400').

I was speaking only of a 185. I'm not trying to make light of this error.

moo

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:10:04 -0500, "Happy Dog"
> wrote:

>"zatatime" > wrote in message
>>
>>>I think that there's a certain measure of hyperbole involved. This has
>>>happened plenty of times and the fuel doesn't drain at that rate. But I
>>>don't doubt that it was a sobering experience.
>>
>> No hyperbole at all. Since it's usenet, of course you're entitled to
>> your opinion, but what I saw was not part of usenet, nor were any of
>> the other witnesses. I'm sure each airplane is different due to the
>> amount of lift generated, and other factors. This airplane lost most
>> of its fuel once around the patch.
>
>Not each 185.
Correct. I was thinking about 152 vs 172 vs 206, etc. What was in my
head was not transferred to "paper."

>This doesn't come even close to the incidents I'm familiar
>with. But I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of this mistake. It can
>easily have fatal consequences.
>
Agreed.

z

Calm down. Nobody's calling you a liar. It can happen lke you said,
especially, as I said, with bladder tanks, since the bladder collapses
under the lower pressure and squeezes the fuel out. The dumb thing was
not getting the bladders checked before filling up and flying again.
Those bladders are held in place against the top and bottom wing skins
with snaps like you see on some jackets, and they come undone under
no-cap conditions. You're left with a partially-collapsed tank.

Dan

> wrote in message
> Calm down. Nobody's calling you a liar. It can happen lke you said,
> especially, as I said, with bladder tanks, since the bladder collapses
> under the lower pressure and squeezes the fuel out.

Lower pressure where? "Squeezing" implies higher pressure surrounding the
bladder. Is that what you meant to say? This happens just fine with metal
tanks too.

moo

"Happy Dog" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> > Calm down. Nobody's calling you a liar. It can happen lke you said,
> > especially, as I said, with bladder tanks, since the bladder collapses
> > under the lower pressure and squeezes the fuel out.
>
> Lower pressure where? "Squeezing" implies higher pressure surrounding the
> bladder. Is that what you meant to say? This happens just fine with
metal
> tanks too.
>
> moo
>
>
Low pressure at the cap means low pressure in the bladder. Regular pressure
outside the wing means squeeze is pretty accurate.
--
Jim in NC

On 16 Dec 2004 15:52:26 -0800, wrote:

>Calm down. Nobody's calling you a liar. It can happen lke you said,
>especially, as I said, with bladder tanks, since the bladder collapses
>under the lower pressure and squeezes the fuel out. The dumb thing was
>not getting the bladders checked before filling up and flying again.
>Those bladders are held in place against the top and bottom wing skins
>with snaps like you see on some jackets, and they come undone under
>no-cap conditions. You're left with a partially-collapsed tank.

Partially collapsed tank (bladder) should just go back to fitting with
fuel. I've had them pull up due to a blocked anti siphon vent.
They've always gone back to the proper fit.

When it comes to putting those clips back in, make sure to have a good
supply of band aids. You'll probably need them.<:-=))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> Dan

The wing root ventilation tubes on a 172 can cause a very strange noise if
they are pulled most of the way out. I aborted a take off one time because
of it. They noise was low frequency and oscillating, following the
throttle and acceleration of the airplane.

- Carl -

In article >,
Carl Ellis > wrote:

> The wing root ventilation tubes on a 172 can cause a very strange noise if
> they are pulled most of the way out. I aborted a take off one time because
> of it. They noise was low frequency and oscillating, following the
> throttle and acceleration of the airplane.


A real hard pushover will cause the vent tubes to "scream".

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Carl Ellis > wrote:
>
>> The wing root ventilation tubes on a 172 can cause a very strange noise
>> if
>> they are pulled most of the way out. I aborted a take off one time
>> because
>> of it. They noise was low frequency and oscillating, following the
>> throttle and acceleration of the airplane.
>
>
> A real hard pushover will cause the vent tubes to "scream".
>
> --
> Dale L. Falk
>

So will your passengers ...

;O)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ