On NY Newsday (Newsday.com) they have a link for the airport spec's for
the A380. On page 3-3-1 or so, they have the take off specs
extrapolated out to a 17000 foot runway. hehehehe. I wonder
where that is.....ummmm, mojave dessert?

I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit and soon
a mosh pit with 555 cell phones going off simultaneously. I know
a Garmin 430 and KX155 will crackle when a cell phone rings. I'm
sure the pilots will be listening to all phone conversations except
ATC even with top notch avionics.

Gerald

Seeing as how a 747-400 can carry something like 450 passengers, why do
you expect such a huge difference between it and the A380?

G.,

> I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
> sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit
>

Well, then read those specs again and compare total floor space divided
by the number of passengers for the 747 and the 380. You'll find the
passengers will have more space in the 380. And they have already
confirmed that this will show in wider seats with more distance from
each other.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

>>I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
>>sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit
> Well, then read those specs again and compare total floor space divided
> by the number of passengers for the 747 and the 380. You'll find the
> passengers will have more space in the 380. And they have already
> confirmed that this will show in wider seats with more distance from
> each other.

I did read that along with the cascino's, bars, lounges, weight
rooms, etc. When I see an airline replace revenue generating seats
with large areas for people to stand around, I'll believe it. Nothing
is free and I just don't see economy becoming business class anytime
soon.

Anyway, wrong newsgroup. My post was more about the 17000 foot runways
in their specs (not the POH of course).

Gerald

Hi,

> Seeing as how a 747-400 can carry something like 450 passengers, why do
> you expect such a huge difference between it and the A380?

A typical 747-400 carries 416 pax, the A380 555 - that's one third more! Max
pax are around 850 - now THATS a difference, don't you think?

Pat

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message ...
>>>I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
>>>sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit
>> Well, then read those specs again and compare total floor space divided by the number of passengers for the 747 and
>> the 380. You'll find the passengers will have more space in the 380. And they have already confirmed that this will
>> show in wider seats with more distance from each other.
>
> I did read that along with the cascino's, bars, lounges, weight
> rooms, etc. When I see an airline replace revenue generating seats
> with large areas for people to stand around, I'll believe it. Nothing
> is free and I just don't see economy becoming business class anytime
> soon.
>
> Anyway, wrong newsgroup. My post was more about the 17000 foot runways
> in their specs (not the POH of course).
>
> Gerald

Branson of Virgin wants some with twin beds and casinos. He joked that folks could get lucky twice on his planes.

I remember flying to Hawaii on a Continental (I think) DC-10 that had a lounge area with a bar and Space Invaders on
some video games. A great flight!

ABC this evening had several film clips showing the A380. In one, obviously
computer generated, it only had two engines. The one shown in the "rollout"
has four. Was there a major design change somewhere along the line? Pratt
or GE or Rolls unable to produce a requested new engine?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
om...
> On NY Newsday (Newsday.com) they have a link for the airport spec's for
> the A380. On page 3-3-1 or so, they have the take off specs
> extrapolated out to a 17000 foot runway. hehehehe. I wonder
> where that is.....ummmm, mojave dessert?
>
> I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
> sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit and soon
> a mosh pit with 555 cell phones going off simultaneously. I know
> a Garmin 430 and KX155 will crackle when a cell phone rings. I'm
> sure the pilots will be listening to all phone conversations except
> ATC even with top notch avionics.
>
> Gerald
>
>
>

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> ABC this evening had several film clips showing the A380. In one, obviously
> computer generated, it only had two engines. The one shown in the "rollout"
> has four. Was there a major design change somewhere along the line? Pratt
> or GE or Rolls unable to produce a requested new engine?

no idea about a design change but I read somewhere that the engines were
Trents. Can't remember if those are GE or Rolls. I know they
are not Lycomings or Continentals. :)

Gerald

Blueskies,

> Branson of Virgin wants some with twin beds and casinos
>

Branson wants to SAY things like that to get maximum publicity. That's
not the same as actually building them with that equipment.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

> Branson of Virgin wants some with twin beds and casinos. He joked that
> folks could get lucky twice on his planes.

Right. And the original 747s had a "stratolounge" upstairs, with a bar, and
seating area.

And then the bean-counters figured out how many seats they could pack into
that space, and *poof* -- it was gone.

The 380 will be impressive to see fly -- but I'd sure not want to be a
passenger.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Ten years ago or so, I flew in a Continental Airlines 747 they had just
acquired from some other airline, and it still had a bar in the middle of
the tourist class area downstairs. Bar stools and all, in a 70's earth-tone
motif. IIRC, there was no bartender, but you could sit at the bar and sip
your coffee. Didn't look to see if there was one upstairs. I presume the
bar disappeared when they refurbished the airframe.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:IruHd.14719$IV5.11483@attbi_s54...
>
> Right. And the original 747s had a "stratolounge" upstairs, with a bar,
and
> seating area.
>
> And then the bean-counters figured out how many seats they could pack into
> that space, and *poof* -- it was gone.
>

Four engines what do you expect from ABC, Anything But Correct
"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
. com...
> Bob Chilcoat wrote:
>> ABC this evening had several film clips showing the A380. In one,
>> obviously
>> computer generated, it only had two engines. The one shown in the
>> "rollout"
>> has four. Was there a major design change somewhere along the line?
>> Pratt
>> or GE or Rolls unable to produce a requested new engine?
>
> no idea about a design change but I read somewhere that the engines were
> Trents. Can't remember if those are GE or Rolls. I know they
> are not Lycomings or Continentals. :)
>
> Gerald

Trents are Rolls Royce, it is the Trent 900 details are
Engine certification was achieved on schedule in October 2004 through the
new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate initially
at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at an
80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts in
excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.

With a fan diameter of 116 inches, the Trent 900 is physically the largest
engine ever built by Rolls-Royce. It is also the world's cleanest large
turbofan engine, measured by emissions per pound of thrust.



"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
. com...
> Bob Chilcoat wrote:
>> ABC this evening had several film clips showing the A380. In one,
>> obviously
>> computer generated, it only had two engines. The one shown in the
>> "rollout"
>> has four. Was there a major design change somewhere along the line?
>> Pratt
>> or GE or Rolls unable to produce a requested new engine?
>
> no idea about a design change but I read somewhere that the engines were
> Trents. Can't remember if those are GE or Rolls. I know they
> are not Lycomings or Continentals. :)
>
> Gerald

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> G.,
>
> > I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
> > sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit
> >
>
> Well, then read those specs again and compare total floor space divided
> by the number of passengers for the 747 and the 380. You'll find the
> passengers will have more space in the 380. And they have already
> confirmed that this will show in wider seats with more distance from
> each other.

Boy, the EU ambassador to r.a.p sure is touchy about criticism of the new
toy, ya think? Don't worry Thomas, even if they turn out to be albatrosses
for the passenger lines, I suspect DHL/FedEx/UPS will keep the assembly line
busy for years to come.

-cwk.

>"Dave" wrote in message >
> Trents are Rolls Royce, it is the Trent 900 details are
> Engine certification was achieved on schedule in October 2004 through the
> new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate initially
> at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at an
> 80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts in
> excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.

The Trents on the B-777 produce over 90,000 lbs. Aren't they the same engine
core?

D.

Worth noting that the 777 engines are actually quite a bit larger with
100,000+lb thrust capability:
http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/ge90/index.html

Of course it mounts only two so total thrust is quite a bit less...
-cwk.

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Trents are Rolls Royce, it is the Trent 900 details are
> Engine certification was achieved on schedule in October 2004 through the
> new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate initially
> at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at an
> 80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts in
> excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.
>
> With a fan diameter of 116 inches, the Trent 900 is physically the largest
> engine ever built by Rolls-Royce. It is also the world's cleanest large
> turbofan engine, measured by emissions per pound of thrust.
>

"Colin W Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
> ...
> > G.,
> >
> > > I presume it will fly like any other transport category airplane but
> > > sitting in that thing will be like sitting in a mosh pit
> > >
> >
> > Well, then read those specs again and compare total floor space divided
> > by the number of passengers for the 747 and the 380. You'll find the
> > passengers will have more space in the 380. And they have already
> > confirmed that this will show in wider seats with more distance from
> > each other.
>
> Boy, the EU ambassador to r.a.p sure is touchy about criticism of the new
> toy, ya think? Don't worry Thomas, even if they turn out to be albatrosses
> for the passenger lines, I suspect DHL/FedEx/UPS will keep the assembly
line
> busy for years to come.
>
http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=901

"Tsunami-struck Thailand has been told by the European Commission that it
must buy six A380 Airbus aircraft if it wants to escape the tariffs against
its fishing industry.

While millions of Europeans are sending aid to Thailand to help its
recovery, trade authorities in Brussels are demanding that Thai Airlines,
its national carrier, pays £1.3 billion to buy its double-decker aircraft."

Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

That is one mother of an engine!

"Colin W Kingsbury" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Worth noting that the 777 engines are actually quite a bit larger with
> 100,000+lb thrust capability:
> http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/ge90/index.html
>
> Of course it mounts only two so total thrust is quite a bit less...
> -cwk.
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Trents are Rolls Royce, it is the Trent 900 details are
> > Engine certification was achieved on schedule in October 2004 through
the
> > new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate
initially
> > at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at an
> > 80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts
in
> > excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.
> >
> > With a fan diameter of 116 inches, the Trent 900 is physically the
largest
> > engine ever built by Rolls-Royce. It is also the world's cleanest large
> > turbofan engine, measured by emissions per pound of thrust.
> >
>
>

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote in message
...
> That is one mother of an engine!
>
> "Colin W Kingsbury" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Worth noting that the 777 engines are actually quite a bit larger with
> > 100,000+lb thrust capability:
> > http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/ge90/index.html
> >

http://www.turbokart.com/about_ge90.htm

General Electric GE90-115B High Bypass Turbofan


a.. Type: Ultra High Bypass Ratio Dual Shaft Turbofan
b.. Bypass Ratio: 9:1
c.. Low Pressure Compressor: Single Stage fan, followed by 4 stage axial
booster
d.. High Pressure Compressor: 9 stage axial flow compressor
e.. Burner: Double annular through-flow combustor
f.. Turbine: Dual spool, 2 stage axial high pressure turbine, 6 stage
axial low pressure turbine
g.. Exhaust: Coaxial core and bypass jet exhaust
h.. Thrust Rating: 115,300 lbs. of thrust
i.. Weight: 18,260 lbs.
j.. Thrust/weight: 6.3:1
k.. Air mass flow: Approximately 3,000 lbs/sec
l.. Fan Pressure Ratio: 2:1
m.. Overall Pressure Ratio: 42:1
n.. Maximum Turbine Inlet Temperature: 2,700F+
o.. Specific Fuel Consumption: .25 lb/lbt/hr
p.. Fuel Burn at takeoff: 3,750 gallons/hr

In article <IruHd.14719$IV5.11483@attbi_s54>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> The 380 will be impressive to see fly -- but I'd sure not want to be a
> passenger.

Think about how long it'll take to get on and off that thing... bleech.

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...

> "Tsunami-struck Thailand has been told by the European Commission that it
> must buy six A380 Airbus aircraft if it wants to escape the tariffs
against
> its fishing industry.
>
> While millions of Europeans are sending aid to Thailand to help its
> recovery, trade authorities in Brussels are demanding that Thai Airlines,
> its national carrier, pays £1.3 billion to buy its double-decker
aircraft."
>

Yah, talk about bad timing, huh? We're hardly on the side of the angels in
this, though. We have a 97% tariff on Thai prawns and pretty wicked stuff on
Sri Lankan textiles and such as well. Would that we spent some of the money
on education or development so that people in South Carolina and Louisiana
could get jobs above third-world level.

-cwk.

Colin,

I came across more touchy than I wanted to - don't forget that I'm
writing this not in my native tongue, so nuances will get lost. Also,
hey, Americans are proud of the achievements of US companies all the
time, so let me have my five minutes, please ;-)

When do you send that diplomatic passport? ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Bob,

> In one, obviously
> computer generated, it only had two engines.
>

Could that have been the A350?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I don't think so. It had two distinct rows of windows. Obviously an
Airbus-generated video. My guess is that it was an early version where they
hoped to get larger engines, but who knows?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Bob,
>
> > In one, obviously
> > computer generated, it only had two engines.
> >
>
> Could that have been the A350?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

"Colin W Kingsbury" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > "Tsunami-struck Thailand has been told by the European Commission that
it
> > must buy six A380 Airbus aircraft if it wants to escape the tariffs
> against
> > its fishing industry.
> >
> > While millions of Europeans are sending aid to Thailand to help its
> > recovery, trade authorities in Brussels are demanding that Thai
Airlines,
> > its national carrier, pays £1.3 billion to buy its double-decker
> aircraft."
> >
>
> Yah, talk about bad timing, huh? We're hardly on the side of the angels in
> this, though. We have a 97% tariff on Thai prawns and pretty wicked stuff
on
> Sri Lankan textiles and such as well.

Can they avoid those tariffs by purchasing Boeing Aircraft? :~)

Then, too, "timing is everything". Oh, and by the way, what are the tariffs
that Thailand and Sri Lanka place on US goods into their countries?


> Would that we spent some of the money
> on education or development so that people in South Carolina and Louisiana
> could get jobs above third-world level.

We now spend $$$BILLIONS and produce some of the industrialized worlds most
illiterate people

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote in message
...
> That is one mother of an engine!

http://www.turbokart.com/about_ge90.htm

(See below)

> the
> > > new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate
> initially
> > > at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at
an
> > > 80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts
> in
> > > excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.
> > >
> > > With a fan diameter of 116 inches, the Trent 900 is physically the
> largest
> > > engine ever built by Rolls-Royce. It is also the world's cleanest
large
> > > turbofan engine, measured by emissions per pound of thrust.

General Electric GE90-115B High Bypass Turbofan
Type: Ultra High Bypass Ratio Dual Shaft Turbofan
* Bypass Ratio: 9:1
* Low Pressure Compressor: Single Stage fan, followed by 4 stage axial
booster
* High Pressure Compressor: 9 stage axial flow compressor
* Burner: Double annular through-flow combustor
* Turbine: Dual spool, 2 stage axial high pressure turbine, 6 stage axial
low pressure turbine
* Exhaust: Coaxial core and bypass jet exhaust
* Thrust Rating: 115,300 lbs. of thrust
* Weight: 18,260 lbs.
* Thrust/weight: 6.3:1
* Air mass flow: Approximately 3,000 lbs/sec
* Fan Pressure Ratio: 2:1
* Overall Pressure Ratio: 42:1
* Maximum Turbine Inlet Temperature: 2,700F+
* Specific Fuel Consumption: .25 lb/lbt/hr
* Fuel Burn at takeoff: 3,750 gallons/hr

>> The 380 will be impressive to see fly -- but I'd sure not want to be a
>> passenger.
>
> Think about how long it'll take to get on and off that thing... bleech.

I know. It'll be cattle-car time, for sure. I haven't flown commercial
since before 9/11, and I'm hoping to avoid it a while longer.

However, I can't wait until EAA gets an A380 and a 747 parked nose-to-nose
on Aeroshell Square -- during OSH '09.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message ...
> Bob,
>
>> In one, obviously
>> computer generated, it only had two engines.
>>
>
> Could that have been the A350?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

Ahhh, the airbus 7E7...

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
>I don't think so. It had two distinct rows of windows. Obviously an
> Airbus-generated video. My guess is that it was an early version where
> they
> hoped to get larger engines, but who knows?
>

I doubt it, the A380 has always been a 4 engine craft.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 at 21:20:57 in message >,
Patrick Mayer > wrote:

>A typical 747-400 carries 416 pax, the A380 555 - that's one third more! Max
>pax are around 850 - now THATS a difference, don't you think?

That is comparing a 'typical' with a maximum.

Maximum for a 747 might be seen as the Japanese 747SR (short range)
could have 550 seats. The one that crashed after a bulkhead failure had
509 passengers on board leading to the world's worst single aircraft
disaster.
--
David CL Francis

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:28:59 -0000, "Dave" >
wrote:

>Trents are Rolls Royce, it is the Trent 900 details are
>Engine certification was achieved on schedule in October 2004 through the
>new European Aviation Safety Agency. Even though it will operate initially
>at a maximum take-off thrust of 70,000lb, the Trent 900 is cleared at an
>80,000lb rating, allowing margin for future growth. It reached thrusts in
>excess of 90,000lb during early test bed running.
>
>With a fan diameter of 116 inches, the Trent 900 is physically the largest
>engine ever built by Rolls-Royce. It is also the world's cleanest large
>turbofan engine, measured by emissions per pound of thrust.
>
Hmmm I wonder if I could retrofit one of them to my C152 :))