http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13815583&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=8


http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%257E3750%257E2672528,00.html?search=filt er

Looks like someone needs to check into whether or not there have been
any AIP grants and if they are going to run for any length of time (say
5 years).

Later
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

That's an AOPA job. Hope they get on the ball and come down harder than
they did on Meigs Field.



"steve.t" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Looks like someone needs to check into whether or not there have been
> any AIP grants and if they are going to run for any length of time (say
> 5 years).
>
> Later
> Steve.T
> PP ASEL/Instrument
>

It sounds like it's time for Sikorsky to step up and say, "You close the
airport, we are leaving the state."

I'm based at BDR and there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

The airport is actually in the town of Stratford but the city of
Bridgeport owns it. Stratford wanted some tax money for it as it is
quite a few acres of property. Bridgeport said "we are a municipal
organization, we don't have to pay property taxes" so Stratford took
them to court and the court sided with Bridgeport so it's been a ****ing
match ever since.

What Stratford doesn't realize is that Bridgeport is not going to be
handing back to the FAA any grant money, they don't have it to spare.

Bridgeport has lost pretty much all the manufacturing jobs it ever had,
there are factory buildings and warehouses standing empty and loads of
vacant space waiting for people to build something on it. There's no
demand for space in the Bridgeport area. Transportation is a disaster
here with I-95 choked with traffic and construction. Labor costs are
high and Connecticut has a pretty business-unfriendly
unemployment-insurance setup compared to other states. Most of the
manufacturing jobs have gone out of the country or down south. Hell,
even the presidential helicopter got awarded to Lockheed who are in bed
with some overseas outfits (who will wind up making parts for it).

The Urban Land Institute aparrently looked at the land and came up with
this proposal pretty quickly so you know how much thought went into it.

Across the street from the airport is the old Avco-lycoming factory
where until 6 or so years ago they built the turbine engines for the
tanks. That whole property except for a few small companies is sitting
empty and idle. There's no demand for manufacturing space.

This is just a politicians way to try and make some brownie points with
the constituents. They figure that the voters in town would rather have
a bunch of warehouses and tractor-trailers in their neighborhoods
instead of the few aircraft and very little auto traffic.

Robert



AirMan wrote:

> http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13815583&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=8
>
>
> http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%257E3750%257E2672528,00.html?search=filt er
>
>

Sikorsky doesn't use that airport, they have their own up the river
who's class Delta abuts BDR's. Sikorsky lost the bid for the new
presidential helicopters as well. They are not having a good year.

jsmith wrote:

> It sounds like it's time for Sikorsky to step up and say, "You close the
> airport, we are leaving the state."
>

So if you had to give the odds of the airport being closed in the next 5
years, what would those odds be?

The decision on the Prez' chopper was undoubtedly a thumb in the eye payback
to the rabid anti-Bush Democrats that dominate CT national politics in the
region, in particular Dodd, Lieberman and DeLauro (3rd Congressional
District). Now these clowns are all in a dither to try to explain the
decision, blaming it on everybody except themselves. The contract value was
not all that big for Sikosky, but the symbolism...its the first time the
Prez will be flying around in a non-Sikorsky chopper.

No way that Bridgeport will close BDR down, if for no other reason than to
tweak Stratford's nose. But it'll be the final nail in Bridgeport's economic
coffin if they do.

The airport is woefully underutilized. If the region had some decent
corporate activity, that place would be buzzing busy, just as it was as
late as the mid-eighties when it had scheduled regionals.

I read a while ago that Bob Crandall was considering basing his new air taxi
operation, POGO, at BDR.




"Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
. com...
> I'm based at BDR and there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.
>
> The airport is actually in the town of Stratford but the city of
> Bridgeport owns it. Stratford wanted some tax money for it as it is quite
> a few acres of property. Bridgeport said "we are a municipal
> organization, we don't have to pay property taxes" so Stratford took them
> to court and the court sided with Bridgeport so it's been a ****ing match
> ever since.
>
> What Stratford doesn't realize is that Bridgeport is not going to be
> handing back to the FAA any grant money, they don't have it to spare.
>
> Bridgeport has lost pretty much all the manufacturing jobs it ever had,
> there are factory buildings and warehouses standing empty and loads of
> vacant space waiting for people to build something on it. There's no
> demand for space in the Bridgeport area. Transportation is a disaster
> here with I-95 choked with traffic and construction. Labor costs are high
> and Connecticut has a pretty business-unfriendly unemployment-insurance
> setup compared to other states. Most of the manufacturing jobs have gone
> out of the country or down south. Hell, even the presidential helicopter
> got awarded to Lockheed who are in bed with some overseas outfits (who
> will wind up making parts for it).
>
> The Urban Land Institute aparrently looked at the land and came up with
> this proposal pretty quickly so you know how much thought went into it.
>
> Across the street from the airport is the old Avco-lycoming factory where
> until 6 or so years ago they built the turbine engines for the tanks.
> That whole property except for a few small companies is sitting empty and
> idle. There's no demand for manufacturing space.
>
> This is just a politicians way to try and make some brownie points with
> the constituents. They figure that the voters in town would rather have a
> bunch of warehouses and tractor-trailers in their neighborhoods instead of
> the few aircraft and very little auto traffic.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> AirMan wrote:
>
>> http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13815583&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=8
>>
>>
>> http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%257E3750%257E2672528,00.html?search=filt er
>>

Robert Chambers > wrote:
> Sikorsky doesn't use that airport, they have their own up the river
> who's class Delta abuts BDR's.

Right. A private heliport with its own Class D airspace. A real oddity.

It's a favorite BFR question of mine: "You're flying at 2000 from HPN to
GON along the shoreline. Describe all the various airspace you fly
through". The vast majority of people get BDR and HVN, but don't have a
clue that KJSD even exists, let alone has a class D airspace! My guess is
it's the most frequently busted airspace in the world.

We've had JSD's ATC down at safety meetings on a few occasions, they are
really nice folk but don't enjoy having their airspace busted. The
Brigeport ATIS tells you if JSD is open or not that's how much of a
problem it is.

They WILL see you they have better radar than NY Approach has, they can
see planes pretty much down to the ground at BDR - they even manage the
aircraft out of Florida where they do testing.

The JSD Folks will give you a transition pretty much for the asking
unless they are doing a lot of flying that day. The heliport also would
make a good emergency landing spot if you can't make it back to BDR.

Good BFR question though Roy, I'm sure the JSD folk would appreciate
more people doing their homework like this.

Robert

Roy Smith wrote:

> Robert Chambers > wrote:
>
>>Sikorsky doesn't use that airport, they have their own up the river
>>who's class Delta abuts BDR's.
>
>
> Right. A private heliport with its own Class D airspace. A real oddity.
>
> It's a favorite BFR question of mine: "You're flying at 2000 from HPN to
> GON along the shoreline. Describe all the various airspace you fly
> through". The vast majority of people get BDR and HVN, but don't have a
> clue that KJSD even exists, let alone has a class D airspace! My guess is
> it's the most frequently busted airspace in the world.

I doubt that the decision was based solely on thumbing the CT
representatives in the eye but it certainly would look like that I think.

Bridgeport has no real economy, they knocked down a long-defunct
manufacturing plant to build a baseball field and indoor arena and then
knocked down some projects to make carparks for them.

There are hardly any manufacturing jobs in Bridgeport anymore and those
that are left are either small-time specialty shops or are shipping
their work overseas.

There are acres and acres of prime waterfront available in Bridgeport,
which incidentally is a pretty good deep water port. What was the
latest great idea for the area? A friggin casinio. forward thinkers
they are NOT.

And do I think the airport will be there in 5 years? Yes, I think it
will be. This proposal will go the way of the last one (to build a
casino on the airport property)...

Robert

H.P. wrote:

> The decision on the Prez' chopper was undoubtedly a thumb in the eye payback
> to the rabid anti-Bush Democrats that dominate CT national politics in the
> region, in particular Dodd, Lieberman and DeLauro (3rd Congressional
> District). Now these clowns are all in a dither to try to explain the
> decision, blaming it on everybody except themselves. The contract value was
> not all that big for Sikosky, but the symbolism...its the first time the
> Prez will be flying around in a non-Sikorsky chopper.
>
> No way that Bridgeport will close BDR down, if for no other reason than to
> tweak Stratford's nose. But it'll be the final nail in Bridgeport's economic
> coffin if they do.
>
> The airport is woefully underutilized. If the region had some decent
> corporate activity, that place would be buzzing busy, just as it was as
> late as the mid-eighties when it had scheduled regionals.
>
> I read a while ago that Bob Crandall was considering basing his new air taxi
> operation, POGO, at BDR.
>
>
>
>
> "Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>I'm based at BDR and there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.
>>
>>The airport is actually in the town of Stratford but the city of
>>Bridgeport owns it. Stratford wanted some tax money for it as it is quite
>>a few acres of property. Bridgeport said "we are a municipal
>>organization, we don't have to pay property taxes" so Stratford took them
>>to court and the court sided with Bridgeport so it's been a ****ing match
>>ever since.
>>
>>What Stratford doesn't realize is that Bridgeport is not going to be
>>handing back to the FAA any grant money, they don't have it to spare.
>>
>>Bridgeport has lost pretty much all the manufacturing jobs it ever had,
>>there are factory buildings and warehouses standing empty and loads of
>>vacant space waiting for people to build something on it. There's no
>>demand for space in the Bridgeport area. Transportation is a disaster
>>here with I-95 choked with traffic and construction. Labor costs are high
>>and Connecticut has a pretty business-unfriendly unemployment-insurance
>>setup compared to other states. Most of the manufacturing jobs have gone
>>out of the country or down south. Hell, even the presidential helicopter
>>got awarded to Lockheed who are in bed with some overseas outfits (who
>>will wind up making parts for it).
>>
>>The Urban Land Institute aparrently looked at the land and came up with
>>this proposal pretty quickly so you know how much thought went into it.
>>
>>Across the street from the airport is the old Avco-lycoming factory where
>>until 6 or so years ago they built the turbine engines for the tanks.
>>That whole property except for a few small companies is sitting empty and
>>idle. There's no demand for manufacturing space.
>>
>>This is just a politicians way to try and make some brownie points with
>>the constituents. They figure that the voters in town would rather have a
>>bunch of warehouses and tractor-trailers in their neighborhoods instead of
>>the few aircraft and very little auto traffic.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>AirMan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13815583&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&rfi=8
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%257E3750%257E2672528,00.html?search=filt er
>>>
>
>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:16:27 GMT, "AirMan" >
wrote:

>That's an AOPA job. Hope they get on the ball and come down harder than
>they did on Meigs Field.

I'm still ****ed about Meigs. Did they ever reopen it? All those
years of MS Flight Sim starting out at Meigs. I NEED to do that
landing for real one time.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:39:34 GMT, "H.P." > wrote:

>I read a while ago that Bob Crandall was considering basing his new air taxi
>operation, POGO, at BDR.

Do any of the air taxi operations make money? Just curious.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:27:28 GMT, Robert Chambers
> wrote:

>A friggin casinio. forward thinkers
>they are NOT.

I remember when casinos were forced down our throats in louisiana...
fear them.

Robert Chambers wrote:

> We've had JSD's ATC down at safety meetings on a few occasions, they are
> really nice folk but don't enjoy having their airspace busted. The
> Brigeport ATIS tells you if JSD is open or not that's how much of a
> problem it is.
>
> They WILL see you they have better radar than NY Approach has, they can
> see planes pretty much down to the ground at BDR - they even manage the
> aircraft out of Florida where they do testing.
>
> The JSD Folks will give you a transition pretty much for the asking
> unless they are doing a lot of flying that day. The heliport also would
> make a good emergency landing spot if you can't make it back to BDR.

Just east of KHFD, Sikorsky's sister company Pratt & Whitney used to have a
similar private field (fixed wing) with class D airspace: Rentschler Field. It
was a sizable field, but they shut it down a few years back. It's supposed to
be redeveloped into . . . something. I think P&W still owns the land.
Rentschler was right next door to Brainard (KHFD).

Robert Chambers wrote:

> I'm based at BDR and there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye.
>
> The airport is actually in the town of Stratford but the city of
> Bridgeport owns it. Stratford wanted some tax money for it as it is
> quite a few acres of property. Bridgeport said "we are a municipal
> organization, we don't have to pay property taxes" so Stratford took
> them to court and the court sided with Bridgeport so it's been a ****ing
> match ever since.
>
> What Stratford doesn't realize is that Bridgeport is not going to be
> handing back to the FAA any grant money, they don't have it to spare.
>
> Bridgeport has lost pretty much all the manufacturing jobs it ever had,
> there are factory buildings and warehouses standing empty and loads of
> vacant space waiting for people to build something on it. There's no
> demand for space in the Bridgeport area. Transportation is a disaster
> here with I-95 choked with traffic and construction. Labor costs are
> high and Connecticut has a pretty business-unfriendly
> unemployment-insurance setup compared to other states. Most of the
> manufacturing jobs have gone out of the country or down south. Hell,
> even the presidential helicopter got awarded to Lockheed who are in bed
> with some overseas outfits (who will wind up making parts for it).
>
> The Urban Land Institute aparrently looked at the land and came up with
> this proposal pretty quickly so you know how much thought went into it.
>
> Across the street from the airport is the old Avco-lycoming factory
> where until 6 or so years ago they built the turbine engines for the
> tanks. That whole property except for a few small companies is sitting
> empty and idle. There's no demand for manufacturing space.
>
> This is just a politicians way to try and make some brownie points with
> the constituents. They figure that the voters in town would rather have
> a bunch of warehouses and tractor-trailers in their neighborhoods
> instead of the few aircraft and very little auto traffic.

Another wrinkle is that FAA has a sizable AFSS there that serves most of Southern New England.
Does the FAA operate any AFSS's in the continental US that are away from airports? I doubt they
would want to start here. That's a bunch of jobs right off that bat.

Part of me says if a community really doesn't want to have an airport that badly, then let them
reap what they sow.

"Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
. com...

> There are acres and acres of prime waterfront available in Bridgeport,
> which incidentally is a pretty good deep water port. What was the
> latest great idea for the area? A friggin casinio. forward thinkers
> they are NOT.

I remember going to the Sikorsky plant in Bridgeport a couple of years ago.
I was impressed by the downtown area by the train station. There must have
been five or six blocks where I didn't feel like I was going to be shot at.
Between that and your typical CT taxes and regulations it's a marvel they've
got anything better than a couple illegal shish-ke-bab stands. It's already
a crack-addled moonscape, how would a casino make it any worse? It's not
like what's left of the local labor pool is cut out for much more. I suppose
you could hold out in hopes of a South Norwalk-style revival but come on,
it's Bridgeport we're talking about.

Yes, but what they sow is poison that affects all of GA... The demise
of Bridgeport is sad... When I was a young whippersnapper, a
Bridgeport mill or lathe was the Rolls Royce of machinery...
Here in Michigan the tax and regulation climate is becoming
semi-friendly to business (the biased pro-union / anti- employer laws
are not, however)... What is hysterically funny (to me) is that our
elected Democrat Governor has to swallow hard almost every day and
propose further cuts in state pork for the willfully unemployed and the
socialism fanatics, and is now even proposing a reduction in the Single
Business Tax (just saying those three words makes my blood pressure go
up, being a business that gets hosed by this tax)... For which I will
give her endless credit for using common sense over her political
religion...

Denny

Jen wrote:

> It's
> supposed to
> be redeveloped into . . . something.

That'd be a shame. There's an offset approach to HFD (an LDA, I think) that
leaves one with an interesting choice of the closed or open field. My CFII
loved that one.

- Andrew

Yup it's an LDA approach to runway 2, which a good instructor will ask
while you are still under the hood. When you look out, where in
relation to the nose of the plane would you expect to find the runway.

Then on short final he throws in a request to land on runway 2 sod aka
the parallel grass runway. talk about a busy approach and then a soft
field landing on a soft field. You get your moneys worth doing that!

Robert

Andrew Gideon wrote:

> Jen wrote:
>
>
>>It's
>>supposed to
>>be redeveloped into . . . something.
>
>
> That'd be a shame. There's an offset approach to HFD (an LDA, I think) that
> leaves one with an interesting choice of the closed or open field. My CFII
> loved that one.
>
> - Andrew
>

Exactly... the town of Stratford has such a bug up it's butt about not
getting taxes on the airport acreage that they think that any excuse to
put it on the tax rolls is ok. I can't imagine me doing much flying if
BDR closed down. Part of the reason I fly is getting from one place to
another quickly. my drive to the airport is 5 minutes, preflight is 20
and I can be in the air in about 30-45 mins. My next closest airport is
HVN which is on the other side of a horrible bridge trafficwise. Or
HPN which is very expensive or OXC which is just plain out of the way.

I'm thinking that this proposal was floated without any real
investigation, after all who knows anything about this Urban Land
Institute anyway or what their agenda is. I'm guessing it will all blow
over in due course once the real story comes out and the real costs
involved to do what they propose are known.

Robert

Denny wrote:

> Yes, but what they sow is poison that affects all of GA... The demise
> of Bridgeport is sad... When I was a young whippersnapper, a
> Bridgeport mill or lathe was the Rolls Royce of machinery...
> Here in Michigan the tax and regulation climate is becoming
> semi-friendly to business (the biased pro-union / anti- employer laws
> are not, however)... What is hysterically funny (to me) is that our
> elected Democrat Governor has to swallow hard almost every day and
> propose further cuts in state pork for the willfully unemployed and the
> socialism fanatics, and is now even proposing a reduction in the Single
> Business Tax (just saying those three words makes my blood pressure go
> up, being a business that gets hosed by this tax)... For which I will
> give her endless credit for using common sense over her political
> religion...
>
> Denny
>

Looking on a most current section the "H" is clearly OUTSIDE the Class
D. Tick marks go around the "H". So how is KJSD its own class D, if
it doesn't show it on the sectional??

OK, I just replooked at the sectional. There is a class D for KJSD,
but it is not easy to spot on the sectional and abuts the class for
BDR. That's tough!
BDR is not a great field, and the FBO's are not very friendly.

BDR is a good little airport. There are only 2 FBO's now, 3-wing and
Atlantic Aviation. 3-wing I don't have any dealings with but I've
heard they are expensive. Atlantic caters more to the netjets types but
I've had very good service from them for my 100LL orders.

There are several approaches to the airport, the tower is open from
6:30am to 10pm and the AFSS is not far from the terminal building if you
want a walk up briefing.

I'd hate to see that area used for anything BUT an airport.

I live in the noise abatement area and from time to time people do fly
directly over the houses which they are told not to do and do it anyway.

The majority of my neighbors don't like the airplane noise but I think
it has more to do with the Gulfstream III's taking off at 5:30am and
rattling windows than the quiet drone of the 4 cylinder lycoming doing
touch and goes.

Those neighbors of mine that aren't completely closed minded about the
airport I take flying with me and make converts out of them. There are
an awful lot of neighbors though and so little time.

Robert

569 wrote:

> OK, I just replooked at the sectional. There is a class D for KJSD,
> but it is not easy to spot on the sectional and abuts the class for
> BDR. That's tough!
> BDR is not a great field, and the FBO's are not very friendly.
>

Have you ever asked them if they don't like airplane noise, why
did they move next to an airport? I wouldn't like a train going past
my house all day....so I don't live next to train tracks. It's kind of
maddening when people move next to an airport and then are
annoyed by the airplane noise and try to close the airport..



"Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> BDR is a good little airport. There are only 2 FBO's now, 3-wing and
> Atlantic Aviation. 3-wing I don't have any dealings with but I've heard
> they are expensive. Atlantic caters more to the netjets types but I've
> had very good service from them for my 100LL orders.
>
> There are several approaches to the airport, the tower is open from 6:30am
> to 10pm and the AFSS is not far from the terminal building if you want a
> walk up briefing.
>
> I'd hate to see that area used for anything BUT an airport.
>
> I live in the noise abatement area and from time to time people do fly
> directly over the houses which they are told not to do and do it anyway.
>
> The majority of my neighbors don't like the airplane noise but I think it
> has more to do with the Gulfstream III's taking off at 5:30am and rattling
> windows than the quiet drone of the 4 cylinder lycoming doing touch and
> goes.
>
> Those neighbors of mine that aren't completely closed minded about the
> airport I take flying with me and make converts out of them. There are an
> awful lot of neighbors though and so little time.
>
> Robert
>
> 569 wrote:
>
>> OK, I just replooked at the sectional. There is a class D for KJSD,
>> but it is not easy to spot on the sectional and abuts the class for
>> BDR. That's tough!
>> BDR is not a great field, and the FBO's are not very friendly.
>>

That sort of logic is lost on them. The airport has been there since
before the houses were built. That doesn't stop people moving into the
neighborhood and then complaining. I can see their point about the
G-III's that take off at 5:30am, that's just rude but the majority of
aircraft going in are single engine props, and even a lot of the
biz-jets are not all that noisy.

I hope and suspect that it will all blow over once the real costs of
this lame proposal are worked out.

Robert

Peter MacPherson wrote:

> Have you ever asked them if they don't like airplane noise, why
> did they move next to an airport? I wouldn't like a train going past
> my house all day....so I don't live next to train tracks. It's kind of
> maddening when people move next to an airport and then are
> annoyed by the airplane noise and try to close the airport..
>
>
>
> "Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>BDR is a good little airport. There are only 2 FBO's now, 3-wing and
>>Atlantic Aviation. 3-wing I don't have any dealings with but I've heard
>>they are expensive. Atlantic caters more to the netjets types but I've
>>had very good service from them for my 100LL orders.
>>
>>There are several approaches to the airport, the tower is open from 6:30am
>>to 10pm and the AFSS is not far from the terminal building if you want a
>>walk up briefing.
>>
>>I'd hate to see that area used for anything BUT an airport.
>>
>>I live in the noise abatement area and from time to time people do fly
>>directly over the houses which they are told not to do and do it anyway.
>>
>>The majority of my neighbors don't like the airplane noise but I think it
>>has more to do with the Gulfstream III's taking off at 5:30am and rattling
>>windows than the quiet drone of the 4 cylinder lycoming doing touch and
>>goes.
>>
>>Those neighbors of mine that aren't completely closed minded about the
>>airport I take flying with me and make converts out of them. There are an
>>awful lot of neighbors though and so little time.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>569 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK, I just replooked at the sectional. There is a class D for KJSD,
>>>but it is not easy to spot on the sectional and abuts the class for
>>>BDR. That's tough!
>>>BDR is not a great field, and the FBO's are not very friendly.
>>>
>
>
>

"569" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> OK, I just replooked at the sectional. There is a class D for KJSD,
> but it is not easy to spot on the sectional and abuts the class for
> BDR. That's tough!

Yup, the sectional chart is pretty cluttered there. The JSD Class D is much
more conspicuous on the NY TAC.

--Gary