Please help me with some info on the Brantly B2

Will it be able to be flown safely in South Africa.
I live at 4700 ft above sea level
with summer temps up to 100F
I am worried about density altitude.


Thanks

Hennie

There was one about a year ago that tried to take off from a Florida
airport in cool weather with two occupants and a full load of fuel.
Apparently, that was overloaded because it got a few feet out over a
lake and went plop. It wouldn't be my first choice for a helicopter.

Dennis H.

(Hennie) wrote:

> Please help me with some info on the Brantly B2
>
> Will it be able to be flown safely in South Africa.
> I live at 4700 ft above sea level
> with summer temps up to 100F
> I am worried about density altitude.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hennie

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

wrote in message >...
> There was one about a year ago that tried to take off from a Florida
> airport in cool weather with two occupants and a full load of fuel.
> Apparently, that was overloaded because it got a few feet out over a
> lake and went plop. It wouldn't be my first choice for a helicopter.
>
> Dennis H.

Any helicopter out of CG & overloaded would be dangerous to fly

> (Hennie) wrote:
>
> > Please help me with some info on the Brantly B2
> >
> > Will it be able to be flown safely in South Africa.
> > I live at 4700 ft above sea level
> > with summer temps up to 100F
> > I am worried about density altitude.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Hennie
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Hennie: The best we can tell is that the Safari outperforms the Brantly in
these conditions.
I have hovered my Safari 8' AGL at density alt. of 8200' with 180# pilot and
1/2 tank fuel. I was not maxed out on power. There must be something about
the Brantly blade system that limits their alt performance. The power/wt
and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
Stu Fields
"Hennie" > wrote in message
om...
> Please help me with some info on the Brantly B2
>
> Will it be able to be flown safely in South Africa.
> I live at 4700 ft above sea level
> with summer temps up to 100F
> I am worried about density altitude.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hennie

"Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:

> The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......

the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
any day.

BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.

No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
escape through there.

Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.

Dennis H.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Hennie wrote:

> Please help me with some info on the Brantly B2
>
> Will it be able to be flown safely in South Africa.
> I live at 4700 ft above sea level
> with summer temps up to 100F
> I am worried about density altitude.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hennie

http://www.brantly.com/aircraft.htm
Hover IGE @ max weight, 59F, only 3,525 ft.

Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.



wrote in message >...
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
>
> > The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
>
> the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
> any day.
>
> BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
> articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
> hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
> blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.
>
> No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
> skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
> is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
> escape through there.
>
> Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.
>
> Dennis H.
>
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

> helopilot > wrote:

> The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
> operated very reasonably.

It may seem a little odd that you don't hear of them more,
or see them advertised on such websites as ASO.

But correct me I am wrong when I state that the
Brantly Company sells every machince it makes.

I will say something postive re: the Brantly: I was given an opportunity to
hover a Brantly before I ever had any helo dual. I was able the first time
to hold the ship in position with the Cyclic without the instructor having
to grab. Something that never happened with anything short of a UH-1N
before. Certainly ot the Safari, not the R22, and not the Bell 47 nor the
Schweitzer 300CB. So I think the Brantly is much easier to fly. It just
doesn't seem to have the performance of other more twitchy helos.

Stu Fields
> wrote in message
...
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
>
> > The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
>
> the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
> any day.
>
> BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
> articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
> hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
> blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.
>
> No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
> skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
> is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
> escape through there.
>
> Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.
>
> Dennis H.
>
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
>

Shiver Me Timbers wrote:

>>helopilot > wrote:
>
>
>>The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
>>operated very reasonably.
>
>
> It may seem a little odd that you don't hear of them more,
> or see them advertised on such websites as ASO.
>
> But correct me I am wrong when I state that the
> Brantly Company sells every machince it makes.

What happens to other companies that don't sell every machine they make.
Even Boeing make to order thats why there is only 1 or 2 747's on the
production line.

rm

David, you have a lot of gall to call me stupid. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO
IS STUPID AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I was at that
airport and saw the thing, WERE YOU THERE?. It was so overloaded that
the pilot had to take off like an airplane. It took him several
hundred feet to drag it on its skids fast enough to get enough
translational lift to get off the ground! According to the pilot,
this was reccommended proceedure when the gas tanks were full!

For your information, the guy in that flight (which you presume to be
an expert) did get off the ground and got half way out over the lake
when he realized that something was wrong. He never got more than
about 10 feet up. Then he turned back to the airport and got all the
way back to the shore of the lake before going plop. Another 20 feet
and he would have set down on dry land undamaged.

The pilot said that he was giving it maximum throttle. If the rpm
decayed, it was due to the craft and not the pilot. The on site FAA
guy said that it was overloaded.

David, I don't know what kind of idiot you are, but before you call
someone else stupid, you'd better get your facts straight.

Dennis H.


(helopilot) wrote:

> Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
> about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
> flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
> helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
> operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
> 2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
> certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.
>
>
>
> wrote in message >...
> > "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
> >
> > > The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
> >
> > the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
> > any day.
> >
> > BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
> > articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
> > hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
> > blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.
> >
> > No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
> > skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
> > is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
> > escape through there.
> >
> > Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.
> >
> > Dennis H.
> >
> >
> > Dennis Hawkins
> > n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
> >
> > "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> > A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> > A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
> >
> > To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> > them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> > web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> > video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Though never having flown a brantly, I have seen a couple in the flesh, one
hangered at the school I used to train at, and one new one at Heli-Expo. The
one thing that always concerned me was how low slung the rotor system is. When
standing next to the helicopter, I had to duck to keep my head from hitting the
blades...I can see when they are going round & round real fast as helicopters
like to do, one could literally lose your head getting into our out of one of
these things. Just an opinion.
Dave

(helopilot) wrote in message >...
> Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
> about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
> flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
> helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
> operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
> 2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
> certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.
>
>
>
> wrote in message >...
> > "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
> >
> > > The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
> >
> > the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
> > any day.
> >
> > BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
> > articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
> > hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
> > blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.
> >
> > No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
> > skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
> > is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
> > escape through there.
> >
> > Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.
> >
> > Dennis H.
> >

Brantly B2 is as good as the pilot operating it
Heavy blades are better than low inertia ones
In autorotation flare after leveling off for landing the rate of rotor
decay will support the helicopter for as such as 4 seconds
No experimental homebuilt can compete with a certified one
The simple flapping & lead-lag hinges & dampers work just fine on the
outer main rotor blades

(Davdirect) wrote in message >...
> Though never having flown a brantly, I have seen a couple in the flesh, one
> hangered at the school I used to train at, and one new one at Heli-Expo. The
> one thing that always concerned me was how low slung the rotor system is. When
> standing next to the helicopter, I had to duck to keep my head from hitting the
> blades...I can see when they are going round & round real fast as helicopters
> like to do, one could literally lose your head getting into our out of one of
> these things. Just an opinion.
> Dave

This beats the common sense
Why would one walk close to & under & into a spinning rotor?
Would one jump into a dry lakebed for swimming?
One must not be jumpy
Don't lose patience & won't lose the head

"Murphy's law" > wrote in message
m...
> (Davdirect) wrote in message
>...
> > Though never having flown a brantly, I have seen a couple in the flesh,
one
> > hangered at the school I used to train at, and one new one at Heli-Expo.
The
> > one thing that always concerned me was how low slung the rotor system
is. When
> > standing next to the helicopter, I had to duck to keep my head from
hitting the
> > blades...I can see when they are going round & round real fast as
helicopters
> > like to do, one could literally lose your head getting into our out of
one of
> > these things. Just an opinion.
> > Dave
>
> This beats the common sense
> Why would one walk close to & under & into a spinning rotor?
> Would one jump into a dry lakebed for swimming?
> One must not be jumpy
> Don't lose patience & won't lose the head

Agreed! Especially in the case of something like the Brantly. I've only
seen a couple of them and like Dave, was struck (no pun intended!) by how
low the rotor was.

OTOH, as long as the pilot's sitting there with a firm hand on the cyclic
(keeping the disk level) and has eye contact with approaching / departing
ground personnel, it's not uncommon to load and unload passengers with the
rotor spinning. I'm not saying it's the safest thing in the world to do but
by my admittedly limited experience, it's pretty common.

Actually, I've heard of more people (with a bad case of rectal/cranial
inversion) sticking their heads in the tail rotor than the main rotor
although I'm sure it's been done both ways. :-o

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

wrote in message >...
> David, you have a lot of gall to call me stupid. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO
> IS STUPID AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I was at that
> airport and saw the thing, WERE YOU THERE?. It was so overloaded that
> the pilot had to take off like an airplane. It took him several
> hundred feet to drag it on its skids fast enough to get enough
> translational lift to get off the ground! According to the pilot,
> this was reccommended proceedure when the gas tanks were full!
>
> For your information, the guy in that flight (which you presume to be
> an expert) did get off the ground and got half way out over the lake
> when he realized that something was wrong. He never got more than
> about 10 feet up. Then he turned back to the airport and got all the
> way back to the shore of the lake before going plop. Another 20 feet
> and he would have set down on dry land undamaged.
>
> The pilot said that he was giving it maximum throttle. If the rpm
> decayed, it was due to the craft and not the pilot. The on site FAA
> guy said that it was overloaded.
>
> David, I don't know what kind of idiot you are, but before you call
> someone else stupid, you'd better get your facts straight.
>
> Dennis H.

The facts of the crash
www.brantly.info
NTSB Report-May 2003, N2141U

> (helopilot) wrote:
>
> > Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
> > about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
> > flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
> > helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
> > operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
> > 2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
> > certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote in message >...
> > > "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......
> > >
> > > the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
> > > any day.
> > >
> > > BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
> > > articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
> > > hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
> > > blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.
> > >
> > > No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
> > > skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
> > > is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
> > > escape through there.
> > >
> > > Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.
> > >
> > > Dennis H.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dennis Hawkins
> > > n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
> > >
> > > "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> > > A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> > > A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
> > >
> > > To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> > > them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> > > web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> > > video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Here is the conclusion of the NTSB:

> The National Transportation Safety Board determines the
> probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

> The pilot/owner's failure to maintain rotor rpm which
> resulted in a loss of control. Contributing factors
> were high gross weight and high density altitude.

In other words, it was overloaded. Saying the pilot was at fault is
not entirely true. His only fault was in buying a Brantly in the
first place. His inability to keep RPM up was not his ignorance, but
the failure of the helicopter to generate enough power. If you stop
and think about it, all helicopters crash because they failed to
maintain RPM. Its what caused the RPM to drop is what is important.

Dennis H.


(Murphy's law) wrote:

> The facts of the crash
> www.brantly.info
> NTSB Report-May 2003, N2141U
>

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
rotor in the green
if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can

steve

"Steve R." > wrote in message
...
<SNIP>> Agreed! Especially in the case of something like the Brantly. I've
only
> seen a couple of them and like Dave, was struck (no pun intended!) by how
> low the rotor was.
>
> OTOH, as long as the pilot's sitting there with a firm hand on the cyclic
> (keeping the disk level) and has eye contact with approaching / departing
> ground personnel, it's not uncommon to load and unload passengers with the
> rotor spinning. I'm not saying it's the safest thing in the world to do
but
> by my admittedly limited experience, it's pretty common.
>

I worked as an engineer with Brantlys for ten years and went in and out of
the rotor disk many times a week. Never had a problem.
The trick - as with all helicopters - is to look for the tip path.

And as for the topic - Our guys used it for pipeline patrol and it was just
as good as any turbine. That rotor system is so smooth. - First time I flew
in another type I thought it was coming apart when it went into transition!

Slatts

I can't say that I have ever flown a Brantly, but here are some specs
from both Rotorway and Brantly's web site:

Helicopter Exec 162F Brantly B2B
===================== ================= ==================
Max level Speed 115 mph 100 mph
Cruise Speed 95 mph 90 mph
Rate of Climb 1000 fpm 1400 fpm
Service Ceiling 10000 feet 6000 feet
Hover IGE 7000 feet 3525 feet
Hover OGE 5000 feet n/a
Useful Load Capacity* 423 lbs 414 lbs
Fuel Burn ** 8.5 gph 13.8 gph
Max Range 180 miles 200 miles
Fuel Capacity 17 gal 31 gal (30.6 usable)

* With Full Tank of AvGas
** Calculated ((Cruise_Speed X Fuel_Capacity) / Range)

So at least according to the specs, the Exec outperforms the B2B in
everything execpt Rate of Climb and Max Range. Given the fuel burn is
nearly double in the B2B, it looks like it has to struggle to stay in
the air despite having a more powerful engine than the Exec.

Comparing to the R22: The R22 outperforms both with the exception of
max carrying load.

Dennis H.


(Stevenatherton) wrote:

> sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
> model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
> rotor in the green
> if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can
>
> steve

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful, approaching from
the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see where this
could be a problem, thats all.
Dave
davdirect

I've owned both the Exec 162F and the B2B. There were many times when
the RW had two adults and 3/4 fuel that it didn't have enough power to
maintain a hover. The RW does not out perform the Brantly in anything.
I liked the RW a lot and put 110 hours on mine. I've flown many times
in the Brantly with 400+ lbs in the cabin and full fuel with no
problems. There is no comparison really. I've also taken the Brantly
to 7100' and still had power to spare. The B2B doesn't struggle at all
to stay in the air. It flies beautifully.




wrote in message >...
> I can't say that I have ever flown a Brantly, but here are some specs
> from both Rotorway and Brantly's web site:
>
> Helicopter Exec 162F Brantly B2B
> ===================== ================= ==================
> Max level Speed 115 mph 100 mph
> Cruise Speed 95 mph 90 mph
> Rate of Climb 1000 fpm 1400 fpm
> Service Ceiling 10000 feet 6000 feet
> Hover IGE 7000 feet 3525 feet
> Hover OGE 5000 feet n/a
> Useful Load Capacity* 423 lbs 414 lbs
> Fuel Burn ** 8.5 gph 13.8 gph
> Max Range 180 miles 200 miles
> Fuel Capacity 17 gal 31 gal (30.6 usable)
>
> * With Full Tank of AvGas
> ** Calculated ((Cruise_Speed X Fuel_Capacity) / Range)
>
> So at least according to the specs, the Exec outperforms the B2B in
> everything execpt Rate of Climb and Max Range. Given the fuel burn is
> nearly double in the B2B, it looks like it has to struggle to stay in
> the air despite having a more powerful engine than the Exec.
>
> Comparing to the R22: The R22 outperforms both with the exception of
> max carrying load.
>
> Dennis H.
>
>
> (Stevenatherton) wrote:
>
> > sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
> > model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
> > rotor in the green
> > if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can
> >
> > steve
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

(Davdirect) wrote in message >...
> I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful, approaching from
> the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see where this
> could be a problem, thats all.
> Dave
> davdirect

The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the safe
operation of the rotorcraft.
Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND UNLOADING
PASSENGERS
Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks

Some questions about the Brantly:

1) Does it hover OGE with a full load? The web site conspicuously
omits this common specification.

2) The pilot who owned the one that crashed said that the factory
reccommended running takeoffs when heavily loaded. Why is this? (I
said "dragging the skids down the runway" before, but on that day it
would be better described as "hopping.")

3) What type of engine is in your B2B? The B2B that crashed was
listed as a 1962 model Lycoming IO360. Maybe your engine is bigger.

4) I find it interesting that you claim that your B2B can outperform
the factory specs. Has your B2B had any special modifications wuch as
Fuel Injection, Supercharger, etc.?

Dennis H.


(helopilot) wrote:

> I've owned both the Exec 162F and the B2B. There were many times when
> the RW had two adults and 3/4 fuel that it didn't have enough power to
> maintain a hover. The RW does not out perform the Brantly in anything.
> I liked the RW a lot and put 110 hours on mine. I've flown many times
> in the Brantly with 400+ lbs in the cabin and full fuel with no
> problems. There is no comparison really. I've also taken the Brantly
> to 7100' and still had power to spare. The B2B doesn't struggle at all
> to stay in the air. It flies beautifully.
>
>
>
>
> wrote in message >...
> > I can't say that I have ever flown a Brantly, but here are some specs
> > from both Rotorway and Brantly's web site:
> >
> > Helicopter Exec 162F Brantly B2B
> > ===================== ================= ==================
> > Max level Speed 115 mph 100 mph
> > Cruise Speed 95 mph 90 mph
> > Rate of Climb 1000 fpm 1400 fpm
> > Service Ceiling 10000 feet 6000 feet
> > Hover IGE 7000 feet 3525 feet
> > Hover OGE 5000 feet n/a
> > Useful Load Capacity* 423 lbs 414 lbs
> > Fuel Burn ** 8.5 gph 13.8 gph
> > Max Range 180 miles 200 miles
> > Fuel Capacity 17 gal 31 gal (30.6 usable)
> >
> > * With Full Tank of AvGas
> > ** Calculated ((Cruise_Speed X Fuel_Capacity) / Range)
> >
> > So at least according to the specs, the Exec outperforms the B2B in
> > everything execpt Rate of Climb and Max Range. Given the fuel burn is
> > nearly double in the B2B, it looks like it has to struggle to stay in
> > the air despite having a more powerful engine than the Exec.
> >
> > Comparing to the R22: The R22 outperforms both with the exception of
> > max carrying load.
> >
> > Dennis H.
> >
> >
> > (Stevenatherton) wrote:
> >
> > > sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
> > > model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
> > > rotor in the green
> > > if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can
> > >
> > > steve
> >
> > Dennis Hawkins
> > n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
> >
> > "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> > A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> > A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
> >
> > To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> > them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> > web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> > video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so close to
the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at the
right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I don't
think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of power
with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked.. For my
money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.

Stu Fields Safari Driver.
"Murphy's law" > wrote in message
om...
> (Davdirect) wrote in message
>...
> > I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful,
approaching from
> > the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see where
this
> > could be a problem, thats all.
> > Dave
> > davdirect
>
> The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the safe
> operation of the rotorcraft.
> Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND UNLOADING
> PASSENGERS
> Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks

1. Yes, depending on conditions (DA, wind, etc.)
2. Only reason I know of to do running takeoffs, besides practice, is
when you're loaded too heavy to maintain a hover. Many times I've been
fully loaded in the B2B and as long as the RRPM and wind is carefully
watched, I had no problems. Only once have I had to touch the skids
down a couple times until ETL was reached, at which point there was
ample power. It was a real hot summer day last year, 90%+ humidity,
fuel topped off, 430 lbs in the cabin, and probably 5 lbs in the
storage. I have no power complaints with the B2B at all.
3. The 360 fuel injected (Don't remember if that is the -A1A or -B1A).
The B2 and B2A ('62-'63 or so) had the carburator engine which I
understand does not have as much power as the fuel injected one used
now.
4. All standard B2B's have fuel injection. Mine has no mods to
increase power



wrote in message >...
> Some questions about the Brantly:
>
> 1) Does it hover OGE with a full load? The web site conspicuously
> omits this common specification.
>
> 2) The pilot who owned the one that crashed said that the factory
> reccommended running takeoffs when heavily loaded. Why is this? (I
> said "dragging the skids down the runway" before, but on that day it
> would be better described as "hopping.")
>
> 3) What type of engine is in your B2B? The B2B that crashed was
> listed as a 1962 model Lycoming IO360. Maybe your engine is bigger.
>
> 4) I find it interesting that you claim that your B2B can outperform
> the factory specs. Has your B2B had any special modifications wuch as
> Fuel Injection, Supercharger, etc.?
>
> Dennis H.
>
>
> (helopilot) wrote:
>
> > I've owned both the Exec 162F and the B2B. There were many times when
> > the RW had two adults and 3/4 fuel that it didn't have enough power to
> > maintain a hover. The RW does not out perform the Brantly in anything.
> > I liked the RW a lot and put 110 hours on mine. I've flown many times
> > in the Brantly with 400+ lbs in the cabin and full fuel with no
> > problems. There is no comparison really. I've also taken the Brantly
> > to 7100' and still had power to spare. The B2B doesn't struggle at all
> > to stay in the air. It flies beautifully.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote in message >...
> > > I can't say that I have ever flown a Brantly, but here are some specs
> > > from both Rotorway and Brantly's web site:
> > >
> > > Helicopter Exec 162F Brantly B2B
> > > ===================== ================= ==================
> > > Max level Speed 115 mph 100 mph
> > > Cruise Speed 95 mph 90 mph
> > > Rate of Climb 1000 fpm 1400 fpm
> > > Service Ceiling 10000 feet 6000 feet
> > > Hover IGE 7000 feet 3525 feet
> > > Hover OGE 5000 feet n/a
> > > Useful Load Capacity* 423 lbs 414 lbs
> > > Fuel Burn ** 8.5 gph 13.8 gph
> > > Max Range 180 miles 200 miles
> > > Fuel Capacity 17 gal 31 gal (30.6 usable)
> > >
> > > * With Full Tank of AvGas
> > > ** Calculated ((Cruise_Speed X Fuel_Capacity) / Range)
> > >
> > > So at least according to the specs, the Exec outperforms the B2B in
> > > everything execpt Rate of Climb and Max Range. Given the fuel burn is
> > > nearly double in the B2B, it looks like it has to struggle to stay in
> > > the air despite having a more powerful engine than the Exec.
> > >
> > > Comparing to the R22: The R22 outperforms both with the exception of
> > > max carrying load.
> > >
> > > Dennis H.
> > >
> > >

Stu,

I reccommend that you keep your Safari. I agree with you completely
about the Brantly looking like a flying Ice Cream Cone. It definitely
takes a lot of the fun out of flying when you know the people on the
ground are laughing at you, wondering if you have any Strawberry-Pecan
for sale. The only thing worse would be to fly in that hot-air
balloon that is shaped like Mickey Mouse.

I was stunned when I discovered that the B2B uses a vertically running
engine *despite* having at least three gearboxes. The Exec uses a
vertically running engine because it does not have a gearbox. I have
to say that I never realized that Lycoming even made a vertical
version of the O-360. I couldn't see well enough into the wreckage to
tell, but there was at least three gearboxes in the B2B. There were
two gearboxes on the tail boom. One was at the apex where it makes a
45 degree turn upward. The other was at the tail rotor.

This extra 45 degree gearbox seems to be a waste. It adds a lot of
extra weight and doesn't buy you anything. I will have to admit that
I was fascinated by the gearboxes themselves. They appeared to be
made out of 2" galvanized pipe elbows. I'm not sure if they really
were, but that's what they looked like.

I read the NTSB report about the crash and learned something. I
learned that the NTSB leaves out a lot of detail. We (myself and
other folks at the airport) were thinking maybe there was something
wrong with the engine which would explain the pilot not having enough
power to maintain a hover. The passenger weighed 190# which shouldn't
have been that excessive. Apparently, the NTSB never bothered to test
the engine and fuel systems as we had expected them to do.

According to the NTSB report, the pilot/owner said that the passenger
was flying the helicopter which caused it to crash. However, this is
not what I heard the passenger say. The passenger told me that he
never took the controls.

The pilot was an airline transport pilot with 28,000 flight hours and
over 100 hours in this particular B2B. I find it difficult to believe
that a pilot with this many hours would carelessly neglect to maintain
rotor RPM if he had a choice. Even if he did turn the controls over
to the passenger, a PIC with 28K hours would not allow the RPM to
decay like that. The tach is in plain sight.

Not to contradict myself, but I am truly interested in the facts that
surround this particular crash regardless of whether my opinion is
right or wrong. As such, I will have point out that the helicopter
crashed shortly after being refueled and that other people have had
trouble after refueling.

On 12/30/2003, a Cessna 441 crashed shortly after refueling at this
same airport. Then, a month later on 1/22/2004, another plane, this
time a Piper PA-23-160, also crashed after refueling. Both of these
accidents were fatal and had engine failure before hitting the ground.
Although, there was speculation about the fuel being bad, it was
tested and nothing was found. Not only that, but there were a lot of
other planes that used the same fuel and didn't crash. Nevertheless,
it still seems like there is more to it than a coincidence.

On another note, I would be curious as to how B2B's handle the weight
shift when a passenger is added. On an Exec, you have to move a
ballast weight depending on whether you have a passenger or not. On
the R22, it uses a high rotor level and geometry solves the problem.
On the B2B, you have a low rotor level and AFAIK no ballast weight.
How does the B2B do it? It this something inherrant to the 3 bladed
hub or does it simply have a large amount of cyclic?

Dennis H.




"Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:

> One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so close to
> the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at the
> right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I don't
> think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
> cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of power
> with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
> pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked.. For my
> money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
> above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.
>
> Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> "Murphy's law" > wrote in message

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

"Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote in message >...
> One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so close to
> the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at the
> right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I don't
> think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
> cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of power
> with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
> pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked.. For my
> money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
> above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.

In any bubble type plexi cabin a some kind of sunvisor is a must to
block sunglare
I had a Rotorway Exec 90, a Safari, have an R22, a Brantly B2, so I
know the difference
The Brantly is kid'a funny looking, but the beauty is in the eye of
the beholder
As the matter of fact, the cone shaped fuselage is an airstream
stabilizer
The flying characteristics must be the main concern in any aircraft


> Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (Davdirect) wrote in message
> >...
> > > I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful,
> approaching from
> > > the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see where
> this
> > > could be a problem, thats all.
> > > Dave
> > > davdirect
> >
> > The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the safe
> > operation of the rotorcraft.
> > Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND UNLOADING
> > PASSENGERS
> > Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks

wrote:

> I was stunned when I discovered that the B2B uses a vertically running
> engine *despite* having at least three gearboxes. The Exec uses a
> vertically running engine because it does not have a gearbox.

So, you're telling us that the Exec rotor runs at engine speed?

> I have to say that I never realized that Lycoming even made a vertical
> version of the O-360.

And, you are also telling us you've never seen a Bell 47 (not the ones
with the Franklin)?

Gary

Gary Knutson > wrote:

> wrote:
>
> > I was stunned when I discovered that the B2B uses a vertically running
> > engine *despite* having at least three gearboxes. The Exec uses a
> > vertically running engine because it does not have a gearbox.
>
> So, you're telling us that the Exec rotor runs at engine speed?

No, I didn't say that at all. The exec has no gearboxes at all. Not
even a tail rotor gearbox.

>
> > I have to say that I never realized that Lycoming even made a vertical
> > version of the O-360.
>
> And, you are also telling us you've never seen a Bell 47 (not the ones
> with the Franklin)?

I am saying that I have never seen under the covers of a Bell 47 so I
don't have a clue what's under there. Apparently helicopters with
vertical engines are more common than I thought. However, it still
seems kind of silly when there is a gearbox being used that could
easily convert the direction.

Dennis H.





Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

I currently fly a Safari and have never had the flicker problem that I had
in the Brantly. I do wear a helmet with a visor..

I thought I knew most of the Safari owners. Your moniker and e-mail aren't
familiar... What happened to your Safari??

Stu Fields


"Murphy's law" > wrote in message
om...
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote in message
>...
> > One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so
close to
> > the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at
the
> > right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> > I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I
don't
> > think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
> > cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of
power
> > with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
> > pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked..
For my
> > money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
> > above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.
>
> In any bubble type plexi cabin a some kind of sunvisor is a must to
> block sunglare
> I had a Rotorway Exec 90, a Safari, have an R22, a Brantly B2, so I
> know the difference
> The Brantly is kid'a funny looking, but the beauty is in the eye of
> the beholder
> As the matter of fact, the cone shaped fuselage is an airstream
> stabilizer
> The flying characteristics must be the main concern in any aircraft
>
>
> > Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> > "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > (Davdirect) wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful,
> > approaching from
> > > > the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see
where
> > this
> > > > could be a problem, thats all.
> > > > Dave
> > > > davdirect
> > >
> > > The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the safe
> > > operation of the rotorcraft.
> > > Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND UNLOADING
> > > PASSENGERS
> > > Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks

Dennis: There is an advantage in having the tail rotor higher. Note the #
of helicopters that have the two gear boxes in the tail rotor chain. They
are not adding those for nothing. If you can, get Ray Prouty's book from
www.helobooks.com. It has a good explanation for putting the tail rotor
higher.
Also the biggest reason for keeping the Safari is that I have a Repairman's
certificate which allows me to perform all the maintenance and inspections.
A big $$$ saver. Not to mention that I can modify the ship to my liking.
All the above would not be legal with the Brantly.
Stu
> wrote in message
...
>
> Stu,
>
> I reccommend that you keep your Safari. I agree with you completely
> about the Brantly looking like a flying Ice Cream Cone. It definitely
> takes a lot of the fun out of flying when you know the people on the
> ground are laughing at you, wondering if you have any Strawberry-Pecan
> for sale. The only thing worse would be to fly in that hot-air
> balloon that is shaped like Mickey Mouse.
>
> I was stunned when I discovered that the B2B uses a vertically running
> engine *despite* having at least three gearboxes. The Exec uses a
> vertically running engine because it does not have a gearbox. I have
> to say that I never realized that Lycoming even made a vertical
> version of the O-360. I couldn't see well enough into the wreckage to
> tell, but there was at least three gearboxes in the B2B. There were
> two gearboxes on the tail boom. One was at the apex where it makes a
> 45 degree turn upward. The other was at the tail rotor.
>
> This extra 45 degree gearbox seems to be a waste. It adds a lot of
> extra weight and doesn't buy you anything. I will have to admit that
> I was fascinated by the gearboxes themselves. They appeared to be
> made out of 2" galvanized pipe elbows. I'm not sure if they really
> were, but that's what they looked like.
>
> I read the NTSB report about the crash and learned something. I
> learned that the NTSB leaves out a lot of detail. We (myself and
> other folks at the airport) were thinking maybe there was something
> wrong with the engine which would explain the pilot not having enough
> power to maintain a hover. The passenger weighed 190# which shouldn't
> have been that excessive. Apparently, the NTSB never bothered to test
> the engine and fuel systems as we had expected them to do.
>
> According to the NTSB report, the pilot/owner said that the passenger
> was flying the helicopter which caused it to crash. However, this is
> not what I heard the passenger say. The passenger told me that he
> never took the controls.
>
> The pilot was an airline transport pilot with 28,000 flight hours and
> over 100 hours in this particular B2B. I find it difficult to believe
> that a pilot with this many hours would carelessly neglect to maintain
> rotor RPM if he had a choice. Even if he did turn the controls over
> to the passenger, a PIC with 28K hours would not allow the RPM to
> decay like that. The tach is in plain sight.
>
> Not to contradict myself, but I am truly interested in the facts that
> surround this particular crash regardless of whether my opinion is
> right or wrong. As such, I will have point out that the helicopter
> crashed shortly after being refueled and that other people have had
> trouble after refueling.
>
> On 12/30/2003, a Cessna 441 crashed shortly after refueling at this
> same airport. Then, a month later on 1/22/2004, another plane, this
> time a Piper PA-23-160, also crashed after refueling. Both of these
> accidents were fatal and had engine failure before hitting the ground.
> Although, there was speculation about the fuel being bad, it was
> tested and nothing was found. Not only that, but there were a lot of
> other planes that used the same fuel and didn't crash. Nevertheless,
> it still seems like there is more to it than a coincidence.
>
> On another note, I would be curious as to how B2B's handle the weight
> shift when a passenger is added. On an Exec, you have to move a
> ballast weight depending on whether you have a passenger or not. On
> the R22, it uses a high rotor level and geometry solves the problem.
> On the B2B, you have a low rotor level and AFAIK no ballast weight.
> How does the B2B do it? It this something inherrant to the 3 bladed
> hub or does it simply have a large amount of cyclic?
>
> Dennis H.
>
>
>
>
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
>
> > One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so
close to
> > the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at
the
> > right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> > I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I
don't
> > think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
> > cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of
power
> > with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
> > pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked..
For my
> > money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
> > above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.
> >
> > Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> > "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
>

> wrote in message
...
<SNIP>. There were
> two gearboxes on the tail boom. One was at the apex where it makes a
> 45 degree turn upward. The other was at the tail rotor.
>
> This extra 45 degree gearbox seems to be a waste. It adds a lot of
> extra weight and doesn't buy you anything. I will have to admit that
> I was fascinated by the gearboxes themselves. They appeared to be
> made out of 2" galvanized pipe elbows. I'm not sure if they really
> were, but that's what they looked like.

I have to come to the rescue of the B2Bs T/R gear boxes, having overhauled
many over the years..
It is a brilliant system that will happily run to it's (1200hr) overhaul
life with no maintenance other than checking the oil level every 100hrs.
Then most of the time at O/H will require virtually no replacement parts to
put it back in service.

Mind you our ships did pipeline patrol so did not sit around to corrode.

The Brantly T/R drive system of cascading oil lubrication is the BEST of any
helicopter.

Slatts

The TR gearboxes were impressive for the size. The B2B isn't all bad.
I tried to buy the ones off the crashed one, but they wouldn't let me.
Like I said, if they weren't housed in 2" galvanized pipe fittings,
then they were in something else that exact same size and shape. If
you have the blueprints of the gearboxes, I'd like to see them.

Dennis.

"Sla#s" > wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> <SNIP>. There were
> > two gearboxes on the tail boom. One was at the apex where it makes a
> > 45 degree turn upward. The other was at the tail rotor.
> >
> > This extra 45 degree gearbox seems to be a waste. It adds a lot of
> > extra weight and doesn't buy you anything. I will have to admit that
> > I was fascinated by the gearboxes themselves. They appeared to be
> > made out of 2" galvanized pipe elbows. I'm not sure if they really
> > were, but that's what they looked like.
>
> I have to come to the rescue of the B2Bs T/R gear boxes, having overhauled
> many over the years..
> It is a brilliant system that will happily run to it's (1200hr) overhaul
> life with no maintenance other than checking the oil level every 100hrs.
> Then most of the time at O/H will require virtually no replacement parts to
> put it back in service.
>
> Mind you our ships did pipeline patrol so did not sit around to corrode.
>
> The Brantly T/R drive system of cascading oil lubrication is the BEST of any
> helicopter.
>
> Slatts
>
>

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

> wrote in message
...
>
> The TR gearboxes were impressive for the size. The B2B isn't all bad.
> I tried to buy the ones off the crashed one, but they wouldn't let me.
> Like I said, if they weren't housed in 2" galvanized pipe fittings,
> then they were in something else that exact same size and shape. If
> you have the blueprints of the gearboxes, I'd like to see them.
>
> Dennis.

No sorry no blue prints.
From the look of them I believe that all the parts could be standard off the
shelf parts. Bevel gears, right angle case boxes, shims, steel drive tube
and alloy outer tube.
I don't believe Brantly manufacture them (From memory the MRGB was made by
someone in Ohio.)
There are a couple of gear manufactures in the UK who provide standard parts
similar to the Brantly's. I'm sure you could find the same in the US.
But the clever part in the Brantly tail drive was the Archimedes screw oil
pump.

Slatts

"Kathryn & Stuart Fields" > wrote in message >...
> I currently fly a Safari and have never had the flicker problem that I had
> in the Brantly. I do wear a helmet with a visor..
>
> I thought I knew most of the Safari owners. Your moniker and e-mail aren't
> familiar... What happened to your Safari??
>
> Stu Fields

I bought the Safari not knowing the unique vibration problem
Safari also have a clinking overruning clutch at runup
Big bubble rattle Safari was sold with 15% profit

> "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so
> close to
> > > the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun at
> the
> > > right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> > > I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I
> don't
> > > think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal ice
> > > cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out of
> power
> > > with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on a
> > > pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked..
> For my
> > > money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely got
> > > above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to fly.
> >
> > In any bubble type plexi cabin a some kind of sunvisor is a must to
> > block sunglare
> > I had a Rotorway Exec 90, a Safari, have an R22, a Brantly B2, so I
> > know the difference
> > The Brantly is kid'a funny looking, but the beauty is in the eye of
> > the beholder
> > As the matter of fact, the cone shaped fuselage is an airstream
> > stabilizer
> > The flying characteristics must be the main concern in any aircraft
> >
> >
> > > Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> > > "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > (Davdirect) wrote in message
> >...
> > > > > I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful,
> approaching from
> > > > > the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could see
> where
> this
> > > > > could be a problem, thats all.
> > > > > Dave
> > > > > davdirect
> > > >
> > > > The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the safe
> > > > operation of the rotorcraft.
> > > > Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND UNLOADING
> > > > PASSENGERS
> > > > Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks

Yeah there is some funny vibrations in the Safari. The first is at 400
rotor rpm if you are on hard pack like concrete or pavement. It doesn't
show if you are on the grass. (I just changed the fuel tank bracing and this
vibration seems to have either disappeared or reduced greatly) The other is
if you overspeed the rotor a bunch..Like 525 rotor rpm when the red line is
500.(CHR has experimented with the rotor and at least one time oversped the
rotor to something like 550 and didn't get the vibration. Hopefully a mod
will be in the books soon) I developed a rotor speed alarm circuit which
provides a tone in the headset for both low and high rotor speeds; this has
solved the overspeed problem for me.
I also have a 2/rev that shows up at 1/2 tank fuel but is not there with
full fuel. This 2/rev isn't bad enough to stop flying, but it is aggravating
enough to stay on my list of problems.
The clinking at rotor engagement is not the overrunning clutch but the
centrifugal clutch. There are some techniques that minimze this. Actually,
I have a set of clutch shoes that did not clink. I haven't the foggiest why
these were different, but my starting procedure was to get the engine
running and then go off looking at gages and putting my helmet on leaving
the engine idling at 1,000. The clutch would engage itself smoothly and
everything would be fine. This isn't true with the present clutch shoes.
I know another guy that went from the Brantly to the R22 and he now has a
206A that he is rebuilding. $$$$
Stu Fields
"Murphy's law" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kathryn & Stuart Fields" > wrote in message
>...
> > I currently fly a Safari and have never had the flicker problem that I
had
> > in the Brantly. I do wear a helmet with a visor..
> >
> > I thought I knew most of the Safari owners. Your moniker and e-mail
aren't
> > familiar... What happened to your Safari??
> >
> > Stu Fields
>
> I bought the Safari not knowing the unique vibration problem
> Safari also have a clinking overruning clutch at runup
> Big bubble rattle Safari was sold with 15% profit
>
> > "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > One thing I noticed in the Brantly was that the rotor positioned so
> > close to
> > > > the bubble could and did cause a very annoying flicker with the sun
at
> > the
> > > > right angle. A hat with a bill would be a must.
> > > > I agree with on poster the Brantly I flew was relatively smooth. I
> > don't
> > > > think that they made the prettiest helo tho..More like a horizontal
ice
> > > > cream cone. I remember a story Ken Brock told me about running out
of
> > power
> > > > with a passenger at a density altitude of about 3,500 but he was on
a
> > > > pinnacle and didn't have all the ground effect he would have liked..
> > For my
> > > > money, if I was located at a place where the density altitude rarely
got
> > > > above 4,000, I would consider the Brantly because it was so easy to
fly.
> > >
> > > In any bubble type plexi cabin a some kind of sunvisor is a must to
> > > block sunglare
> > > I had a Rotorway Exec 90, a Safari, have an R22, a Brantly B2, so I
> > > know the difference
> > > The Brantly is kid'a funny looking, but the beauty is in the eye of
> > > the beholder
> > > As the matter of fact, the cone shaped fuselage is an airstream
> > > stabilizer
> > > The flying characteristics must be the main concern in any aircraft
> > >
> > >
> > > > Stu Fields Safari Driver.
> > > > "Murphy's law" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > (Davdirect) wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > > > I agree with you about watching the tip path, being careful,
> > approaching from
> > > > > > the right place,etc. however to untrained passengers I could
see
> > where
> > this
> > > > > > could be a problem, thats all.
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > davdirect
> > > > >
> > > > > The PIC is always responsible for the safety of passengers & the
safe
> > > > > operation of the rotorcraft.
> > > > > Placard in Brantly : ROTOR MUST BE STOPPED WHILE LOADING AND
UNLOADING
> > > > > PASSENGERS
> > > > > Even so tip path plane is over 6 feet high, that's all folks