I was in an airplane crash in February.
Not piloting.
I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need some
one to talk to who understands.

> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need some
> one to talk to who understands.

I assume you are already seeking professional counselling, and are
looking in Usenet for some additional support or information. If you
are depending on usenet for primary support, this is a mistake. Find a
professional counselor of some sort. A professional has some tools that
we don't. The right professional is also someone you can trust with
thoughts you wouldn't want to post to the whole world permanently.

That said, and mindful that anything posted is worldwide and permanent,
it's hard to gauge whether "what you're going through" is normal,
without knowing what you're going through, and what happened. It is
normal to go through a lot of intense feelings for any traumatic event,
especially one in which one might (even erroniously) feel that they
might have influenced the outcome for the better, but didn't.

I have never been in a plane crash (though I've been in a car crash). I
don't know how much I can add, but I'll say what I can. Which right now
isn't much. :/

You should also ensure that what you say online is ok to say from a
legal and insurance point of view - that it doesn't compromise an
investigation or the legal standing of the pilot or anyone else. You
can talk to a counselor in confidence, but you can't come online in
confidence that what you say remains private.

Again, mindful of that, what happened? It will be helpful in finding
people here for whom something like that also happened, who can share
their thoughts.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

What goes up, usually comes down... Sometimes a little rougher than we
would like... Get used to it and move on with your life...

bekah wrote:
> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting. I am a student pilot and I'm trying to
> get over what happened. Anything from people who
> have been in my situation is greatly needed. I need
> to know if what i'm going through right now is normal,
> need some one to talk to who understands.

Jose's post seems very wise to me.

I will share with you that a dear friend of mine was a flight attendant
who survived an airline crash. I don't know what you're going through
because you've provided very little information, which as Jose
suggests, may be extremely appropriate. However, in my friend's case,
between the physical issues (severe burns) and the emotional issues
(primarily survivor guilt), there *is* a lot to get through.

She needed to understand a lot about flying after the accident and
completed ground school for both the private and instrument written
tests. She did very well on both. She took actual flight instruction,
up to but not including a solo. I'm very proud of her.

I echo the advice to seek good counseling in this, whatever your
situation.

I think you have to take the approach to learn from crashes. I imagine
it can be quite upsetting to go through one. As a student pilot you lack
the experience to understand a lot of things about the crash. The thing to
remember is
for the majority there's not any one thing that caused it. It's a chain
of events. If you can recognize and break that chain your chances of
being involved in one will be greatly reduced. When things aren't going
as they should on a flight, don't just push on. Land and sort it out.
Regroup.

You didn't say what kind of crash it was or what you think caused it, but
I think you can maximize your margin for safety several ways:

1. Make sure the plane and you are well prepared for the flight. Don't fly
when you don't feel totally up to snuff and make sure to do a very good
preflight.
2. Establish and maintain personal minimums that are conservative
for your experience level.
3. Operate the plane within it's limitations.
4. Work through in your mind ahead of time all sorts of scenarios and what
you would do in each. Write them down. Think out ahead of time what
the best course of action would be and write it down. For everything
that
reasonably happen up there you should have thought it through and made
a plan. A lot of these emergency procedures will be covered in your
training.

In 30 yrs of flying I've been lucky enough to not have been involved in
any crashes or broken any airplanes. I've had some situations I've
had to deal with.

Good luck with your flying. Enjoy.



"bekah" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need some
> one to talk to who understands.
>

bekah wrote:
> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need
some
> one to talk to who understands.

Been there, done that. What you do is going to depend a lot on the
circumstances surrounding the crash. Whether or not it was caused by
something out of your (or the pilot's) control can be a big determining
factor on how you deal with it. You're going to have to go through a
process of risk management to determine if flying is something you
really want to continue to do.

General Aviation flying has its risks. Most pilots I know tend to
downplay the risks in order to feel more comfortable about their
pursuits. Back when I was a newbie, I used to find comfort in the fact
that things like catastrophic engine failures were extremely rare.
Although I trained for it, in the back of my mind, the possibility
seemed as remote as winning the lottery. My mindset was that as long
as I kept the airplane under control and the engine kept turning, I
would be OK. I'll admit that this philosophy was somewhat shaken when
I had a catastrophic engine failure over rough terrain. When your
comfortable (and not accurate) notions of well being in the air
suddenly dissolve, it can be very traumatic.

In order to continue flying after the crash, I had to sit down and
critically evaluate ALL of the risks involved in flying and consciously
accept that there were some things that would always be beyond my
control. With a more proactive mindset, I could then address those
things that I could do something about, and work towards improving my
chances of success if something should happen again.

Ultimately, you are going to have to decide what is realistically
acceptable to you. I know pilots who survived crashes that never flew
again, others that have gone on to careers in the cockpit. One bit of
advice, though. Whether you get professional counseling or do this on
your own, try not to let this event take over your life. Falling out
of the sky can be very traumatic, but it's just another one of the
thousands of bad things that can happen to anyone, on any day. Like an
automobile accident or a brush with serious illness. Concentrate on
the huge upside to the event. You survived it (hopefully without long
term effects) and you're here on Usenet to tell about it.

If you still have an interest in pursuing aviation, you will work
have to work your way back slowly. You might decide to "get back on
the horse", and jump in the cockpit as soon as you're able (as I did),
and that's fine. Just be prepared to take slow steps. It will take
some flying hours to build the trust and confidence in the aircraft and
systems (and yourself) again.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

("bekah" wrote)
>I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.


If you could give us the date, place, and/or the type of plane - then we'll
look up the information on the crash. If this is not a US crash, others will
know where to get the information.

I say, let's start with the accident, if you're sure you want to go public
with your thoughts and opinions.

I've been down on motorcycles, a few too many times, and been (physically)
close to others who went down and didn't get up. Also, I was driving a big
(fully loaded with 18,000 lbs of fertilizer) company truck that was totaled
in a multi-vehicle wreck. Luckily a flatbed semi was the thing that stopped
me, not a little Honda Civic. Don't recall what hit me from behind - pickup
truck I think? No deaths. I drove a different truck that afternoon, for a
farm fertilizer delivery - not a problem (1990).

However, I didn't drive a motorcycle, for the next 20 years, after I was
rear-ended while on my bike (1984). Lost interest in them :-(


Montblack
BTW - I'm starting to look at bikes again. Cheap used bikes, but still, the
call of the open road and all....beckoning again. It's time.

I did wreck an airplane. Not exactly a "crash", but a taxi accident. I
wished so much that I could rewind and do the day over. It seemed so
final. Like that instant changed things forever. I felt so dumb for
what I did. Waves of regret would just sweep over me out of nowhere.
Fortunately, only my ego and airplane were damaged. I wasn't afraid to
get back in the air, except that wind made me very, very nervous for a
long time. http://pad39a.com/gene/flypix0.html

We don't have much info on your experience, but I suspect mine was very
minor compared to what you went through. Has it given you a general
fear of flight? Afraid of things that may happen that are beyond your
control? Afraid you might make a mistake if you fly? I think most of us
have experienced just a touch of what you must be feeling, but we
probably can't imagine being in an actual flight going that wrong. I'm
sure you will never see flying the same way again, but certainly hope
you will one day be able to enjoy and appreciate it again.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.





bekah wrote:
> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need
some
> one to talk to who understands.

"Montblack" wrote in message ...
> BTW - I'm starting to look at bikes again. Cheap used bikes, but still,
the
> call of the open road and all....beckoning again. It's time.

I know the feeling... It took me over 10 years from my last bike wreck
before I bought another one... It got to the point where I was thinking,
"What the ****, it only took me 4 years to walk without crutches or a cane
after the last wreck -- it's time for a new bike"...

Thanks for writing up that harrowing incident, Gene.
There is a big difference between being told something in training and
seeing an actual result...

Jonathan

In . com> Gene Seibel
wrote:
> I did wreck an airplane. Not exactly a "crash", but a taxi accident. I
> wished so much that I could rewind and do the day over. It seemed so
> final. Like that instant changed things forever. I felt so dumb for
> what I did. Waves of regret would just sweep over me out of nowhere.
> Fortunately, only my ego and airplane were damaged. I wasn't afraid to
> get back in the air, except that wind made me very, very nervous for a
> long time. http://pad39a.com/gene/flypix0.html
>
> We don't have much info on your experience, but I suspect mine was
> very minor compared to what you went through. Has it given you a
> general fear of flight? Afraid of things that may happen that are
> beyond your control? Afraid you might make a mistake if you fly? I
> think most of us have experienced just a touch of what you must be
> feeling, but we probably can't imagine being in an actual flight going
> that wrong. I'm sure you will never see flying the same way again, but
> certainly hope you will one day be able to enjoy and appreciate it
> again. -- Gene Seibel Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
>
>
>
>
>
> bekah wrote:
>> I was in an airplane crash in February.
>> Not piloting.
>> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
>> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
>> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need
> some
>> one to talk to who understands.
>
>

"bekah" > wrote in message

> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting. I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what
happened.

I struck a deer with my van last year and nearly rolled it. It took some
time to shake off the twitches. That's normal. Post traumatic even.

You have the experience of knowing what an airplane crash is like, which
most of us do not. In some ways that will make you a better and wiser
pilot. Hang in there and get back on the horse, and I'd say it might not be
a bad idea to get two or three more hours of instruction just to help you
work through the jitters.

Glad you're hear to post. Best of luck to you!

-c

On 5/10/05 11:46 AM, in article
om, "bekah"
> wrote:

> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need some
> one to talk to who understands.
>

I guess it depends on what you are going through, but you should expect some
stress after such an event. Everybody is a little different, but
nervousness, nightmares, and difficulty making decisions are fairly common.
These symptoms can take anywhere from a few months to over a year to begin
to fade, and they can suddenly reappear years later. Stressful events like
that can intrude into your family life and disrupt it.

Probably the best things to do are to talk about it, see what lessons you
can learn from the crash, and teach those lessons to others. By doing that
you begin to emotionally channel the stress into something positive and
productive. It is also good to enlist the help of your spouse, if you have
one, or another close family member, and also listen to how they felt when
you were endangered.

Such stressful occurrences are also a normal part of life. We have insulated
ourselves from it more than previous generations could -- facing catastrophe
now happens much less frequently in our lives. Because of that, we get a lot
less practice at dealing with traumatic events than our ancestors did. Even
so, we should expect that things like that will happen.

The worst thing to do is try to forget about it or to suppress the memory of
it. Freudian quacks to the contrary, it is impossible and destructive.
Better to deal with it now with proper counseling and keeping the memory
alive. And be glad that you will probably have to face such terrible
circumstances only a few times in your life. I can't imagine what it must
have been like to be a Jew in Auschwitz, for example. Something like a plane
crash, but instead of being over in an instant, going on day and night for
years. Amazing that more of them did not go mad.

Anyway, stay in touch with the group. Even if they don't help you anywhere
else, they will get you flying again.

"bekah" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I was in an airplane crash in February.
> Not piloting.
> I am a student pilot and I'm trying to get over what happened.
> Anything from people who have been in my situation is greatly needed.
> I need to know if what i'm going through right now is normal, need some
> one to talk to who understands.
>
When we have a sinus infection, we go to see a ear, nose and throat doctor.

When we have a badly broken bone, we go to an orthopedic surgeon.

Nobody flinches, and the problems are fixed. There seems to be a problem
with going to see a "head doctor". You have a problem that needs to be
resolved, so see the right doctor to get it fixed, if you can not resolve it
yourself...
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
>
> Nobody flinches, and the problems are fixed. There seems to be a problem
> with going to see a "head doctor". You have a problem that needs to be
> resolved, so see the right doctor to get it fixed, if you can not resolve it
> yourself...

And say goodbye to any kind of medical certificate in the foreseeable future.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

George Patterson wrote:
> And say goodbye to any kind of medical certificate in the foreseeable
future.

Is simple counseling disqualifying? It doesn't seem to me that a
diagnosed illness or medication would necessarily be involved. I'm not
debating, I'm just surprised.

Kay
email: remove "ns" from aviationns

KayInPA wrote:
>
> Is simple counseling disqualifying?

Depends on what you call disqualifying. Your medical will not be "denied", but
you'll get one of those letters that starts out with "not approved at this
time." You'll then get a list of mental health exams that you have to take at
your own expense. At least, that was the case 15 years ago; check with AOPA for
current info.

> It doesn't seem to me that a
> diagnosed illness or medication would necessarily be involved. I'm not
> debating, I'm just surprised.

Just don't tell them that you've seen a medical mental health specialist (the
easiest way to do that is to not see one). Their main concern is that you might
be depressed enough to use the plane to commit suicide or crazy enough to use it
to commit a crime.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:tdWge.4972$1f5.3293@trndny01...
> Morgans wrote:
> >
> > Nobody flinches, and the problems are fixed. There seems to be a
problem
> > with going to see a "head doctor". You have a problem that needs to be
> > resolved, so see the right doctor to get it fixed, if you can not
resolve it
> > yourself...
>
> And say goodbye to any kind of medical certificate in the foreseeable
future.

Really? If no meds are taken?
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:40:44 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
>news:tdWge.4972$1f5.3293@trndny01...
>> Morgans wrote:
>> >
>> > Nobody flinches, and the problems are fixed. There seems to be a
>problem
>> > with going to see a "head doctor". You have a problem that needs to be
>> > resolved, so see the right doctor to get it fixed, if you can not
>resolve it
>> > yourself...
>>
>> And say goodbye to any kind of medical certificate in the foreseeable
>future.
>
>Really? If no meds are taken?

The question on the medical form reads "Mental disorders of any sort;
depression, anxiety, etc", not whether any meds are taken. I would
expect that checking yes on that box likely makes the form go right to
the "automatic deferral until clinician information received" pile.

>>>
>>>>Nobody flinches, and the problems are fixed. There seems to be a
>>
>>problem
>>
>>>>with going to see a "head doctor". You have a problem that needs to be
>>>>resolved, so see the right doctor to get it fixed, if you can not
>>
>>resolve it
>>
>>>>yourself...
>>>
>>>And say goodbye to any kind of medical certificate in the foreseeable
>>
>>future.
>>
>>Really? If no meds are taken?
>
>
> The question on the medical form reads "Mental disorders of any sort;
> depression, anxiety, etc", not whether any meds are taken. I would
> expect that checking yes on that box likely makes the form go right to
> the "automatic deferral until clinician information received" pile.
>

I think to have a "Mental Disorder" a diagnosis would have to be made.
If you just visit a counselor there is no diagnosis (unless you want to
have one for insurance purposes). I would guess going to see a MSW
(Master's in Social Work) and paying the bill on your own would not
qualify you in the "Mental Disorders" category. Or just do the damned
paperwork and be done with it. Been there, done that, it's not that
much of an issue unless you really shouldn't be flying.

Margy

"Margy" > wrote

> I think to have a "Mental Disorder" a diagnosis would have to be made.
> If you just visit a counselor there is no diagnosis (unless you want to
> have one for insurance purposes). I would guess going to see a MSW
> (Master's in Social Work) and paying the bill on your own would not
> qualify you in the "Mental Disorders" category. Or just do the damned
> paperwork and be done with it. Been there, done that, it's not that
> much of an issue unless you really shouldn't be flying.

That sounds more like it! There is *tic*tic* nothing wrong *tic*tic* with
me; This info was *tic*tic* for a "friend." <g>
--
Jim in NC

John, as a member of this unfortunate club, I very much appreciated your
post.

Jose, he says it all.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

VOsborne2 at charter dot net