Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
a busy day for the Air Force...

Let's see, I've managed to bust the ADIZ on the east side once, I've
botched the AOPA arrival procedure once, I've unknowingly violated the
old Camp David prohibited zone (didn't know until Navy mentioned it at
subsequent pilot meeting)...

I think I'll stay home.

But if you go, let me share some lessons learned:
- There is ZERO tolerance for ADIZ or Prohibited Zone penetration - you
touch it, you will be called on it
- You can't over-brief yourself on any aspect of the flight. Know the
procedures, the airspace, the rules, your aircraft, your equipment, etc.
- IFR is better but not recommended by AOPA if VFR prevails so plan for
a VFR arrival

Have fun and stay blissfully anonymous.

wrote:
> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
> a busy day for the Air Force...
>

Maule Driver wrote:

> Let's see, I've managed to bust the ADIZ on the east side once, I've
> botched the AOPA arrival procedure once, I've unknowingly violated the
> old Camp David prohibited zone (didn't know until Navy mentioned it at
> subsequent pilot meeting)...

You violated the Camp David P zone and didn't have the FAA come calling?


Matt

wrote:
> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
> a busy day for the Air Force...
>
Well since the flight procedures for holding on the NOTAM route you
through the ADIZ, I would expect we will have problems. That entire
AOPA Flyin procedure is a poopstorm anyhow.

wrote:
> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
> a busy day for the Air Force...
>
I don't think there will be many, if any, VFR flights into Frederick on
Saturday. The weather forecast is looking pretty stinko (a.m. drizzle,
low ceilings, etc.). Afternoon might be O.K. but there still might be
scattered showers about. I've already cancelled my plane reservation for
Saturday. Fortunately, its only and hour and a quarter drive for me. So
I'll still be there and try not to put the wife and I into the pour house.

I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
minute flight.
Michelle

Tom Fleischman wrote:

> On 2005-06-03 12:22:42 -0400, said:
>
>> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
>> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
>> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
>> a busy day for the Air Force...
>
>
> Go IFR if you can.
>

How come you didn't simply ask for an IFR descent below the cloud deck as
the layers were well known by then ?

Mind you, I didn't and finally got the approach clearance to the ILS after
futzing around for over 45 minutes. A simple request down to the MVA
woulda worked wonders.

Hindsight. Doesn't beat pancakes.

Ray

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:00:39 -0400, Tom Fleischman
> wrote:

> On 2005-06-04 18:34:25 -0400, Michelle P
> > said:
>
>> I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
>> minute flight.
>> Michelle
>
> So did I. There was a 45 minute hold for release at 8AM, then at 8:45
> they began letting IFR departures go, but by the time I rounded up my
> passengers at 9AM the hold went back up for another hour. By 9:45 HPN
> was VFR and the weather was looking a little better to the southwest so
> we decided to try and go VFR. But by the time we got just north of
> Philly we were on top of a solid undercast and my request with Philly
> Approach for an IFR clearance into Frederick was met with howls of
> laughter, and then they said fine if you want to circle for an hour and
> a half we might be able to work that clearance out, so we turned around
> and went back to Sky Acres for pancakes.
>
>
>> Tom Fleischman wrote:
>>
>>> On 2005-06-03 12:22:42 -0400, said:
>>>
>>>> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
>>>> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
>>>> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
>>>> a busy day for the Air Force...
>>> Go IFR if you can.
>
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

I took off out of HPN at 8:45 and by 9:00 was holding over SAX. After 10
minutes I changed my destination to HGR and figured I'd either get close and
go VFR or land at HGR and see if I can rent a car. I motored along without
incident or delay. There were planes holding all over, 3 over Lancaster, 6
in the Harrisburg sector and 8 more in the Potomic sector. There was no
way I would have ever made it after all those holds with any fuel left in
the tanks. So I came in on the ILS at HGR and got below the undercast at
1300 AGL.

With 5 mile viz, 1300 bkn ceiling and 1900 foot hills/towers between HGR and
FDK I decided to land at HGR and drove the 30 minutes to FDK.

It was well worth the effort.

Steve S

"Tom Fleischman" > wrote in
message
news:2005060420003916807%bodhijunkoneeightyeightju nkatmacdotcom@junkjunk...
> On 2005-06-04 18:34:25 -0400, Michelle P
> > said:
>
>> I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
>> minute flight.
>> Michelle
>
> So did I. There was a 45 minute hold for release at 8AM, then at 8:45 they
> began letting IFR departures go, but by the time I rounded up my
> passengers at 9AM the hold went back up for another hour. By 9:45 HPN was
> VFR and the weather was looking a little better to the southwest so we
> decided to try and go VFR. But by the time we got just north of Philly we
> were on top of a solid undercast and my request with Philly Approach for
> an IFR clearance into Frederick was met with howls of laughter, and then
> they said fine if you want to circle for an hour and a half we might be
> able to work that clearance out, so we turned around and went back to Sky
> Acres for pancakes.
>
>
>>
>> Tom Fleischman wrote:
>>
>>> On 2005-06-03 12:22:42 -0400, said:
>>>
>>>> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
>>>> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
>>>> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
>>>> a busy day for the Air Force...
>>>
>>>
>>> Go IFR if you can.
>
>

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
> minute flight.

What took all of the extra time?
--
Jim in NC

I came in from Culpeper Up the west side of the ADIZ Martinsburg VOR
(MRB) Direct Westminster VOR (EMI) when we got near EMI they started
vectoring us first in PA near Lancaster then over to Aberdeen proving
grounds. then back into PA. they then sent us back to EMI. all at 100
kts max. At one point we were north east of Baltimore over the
Chesapeake bay. We had literally gone 2/3 of the way around the ADIZ.
If frederick is IFR next time I will and mot going. If it is marginal
then I will file to Westminster airport and then run underneath. I tried
to change my destination in the air but they would not let me so I gave
up and went home. The last controller we had keep saying they were 45-50
aircraft waiting for the approach. I figure I was in the middle.
I was getting to the point of needing to go to the bathroom. That was
the breaking point.
Michelle

Morgans wrote:

>"Michelle P" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
>>I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
>>minute flight.
>>
>>
>
>What took all of the extra time?
>
>

I could have driven as well. An hour and half ride but it is just
against my principle to drive to a fly-in.
Michelle

Arnold Sten wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> Seeing as the big AOPA shindig is in Frederick, MD this weekend,
>> anybody wanna guess how many GA pilots bust the D.C. ADIZ? In spite of
>> AOPA's publishing the arrival procedures I'm thinking Saturday will be
>> a busy day for the Air Force...
>>
> I don't think there will be many, if any, VFR flights into Frederick
> on Saturday. The weather forecast is looking pretty stinko (a.m.
> drizzle, low ceilings, etc.). Afternoon might be O.K. but there still
> might be scattered showers about. I've already cancelled my plane
> reservation for Saturday. Fortunately, its only and hour and a quarter
> drive for me. So I'll still be there and try not to put the wife and I
> into the pour house.

It was long time ago (pre-9/11, pre-GPS) in a place far far away (one of
my first glider races).

There was no transponder involved and no radio contact. But I did get
caught anonymously.

The race was with 20+ sailplanes and the day's task went NW out of
Fairfield PA (W73)then east before returning to Fairfield.

On the first leg, I got low and lost near Chambersburg. After climbing
up and spending some time with the map, I became completely disoriented
and flew Southeast towards the ridges instead of NW towards the other
ridges (good pilotage lesson here about the compass).

Low, lost and circling again, I simply thermaled around for an hour or 2
trying to match the geo with the chart. I had no luck, saw no other
sailplanes and since it's against the rules to get help from the ground,
I didn't ask for help. So after ejecting a few relief bags over terra
incognito, I finally spotted the home airport area and landed. I was in
last place that day.

Two days later, some Navy people showed up to talk to the contest
director (CD) about a Camp David airspace violation by a glider (I guess
the Navy does the presidential security at Camp David?). At that
morning's pilot briefing, the CD told us of the meeting but explained
how he assured the Navy that it couldn't have been a contest glider
because we were tasked in the opposite direction that day. I remained
quiet.

Was it me? Absolutely. How close did I get? This was a long time ago
when the prohibited zone was very small and didn't expand when the Prez
was visiting.

But apparently the Prez was in the house - sorry for the relief bag Ronnie.

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Maule Driver wrote:
>
>> Let's see, I've managed to bust the ADIZ on the east side once, I've
>> botched the AOPA arrival procedure once, I've unknowingly violated the
>> old Camp David prohibited zone (didn't know until Navy mentioned it at
>> subsequent pilot meeting)...
>
>
> You violated the Camp David P zone and didn't have the FAA come calling?
>
>
> Matt

.... we were about to do the same thing (turn around and go home, that is)
after over an hour's hold at East Texas VOR (half an hour at a time), but
just as we had prepared all of the charts for our exit strategy, they
cleared us direct FDK!!! We lucked out!

Better luck next time?

:-/

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I came in from Culpeper Up the west side of the ADIZ Martinsburg VOR
> (MRB) Direct Westminster VOR (EMI) when we got near EMI they started
> vectoring us first in PA near Lancaster then over to Aberdeen proving
> grounds. then back into PA. they then sent us back to EMI. all at 100
> kts max. At one point we were north east of Baltimore over the
> Chesapeake bay. We had literally gone 2/3 of the way around the ADIZ.
> If frederick is IFR next time I will and mot going. If it is marginal
> then I will file to Westminster airport and then run underneath. I tried
> to change my destination in the air but they would not let me so I gave
> up and went home. The last controller we had keep saying they were 45-50
> aircraft waiting for the approach. I figure I was in the middle.
> I was getting to the point of needing to go to the bathroom. That was
> the breaking point.
> Michelle
>
> Morgans wrote:
>
> >"Michelle P" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> >
> >>I went IFR and gave up after 1:45 of flying for what is normally a 45
> >>minute flight.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >What took all of the extra time?
> >
> >
>