WEll...since I got some interest in the road landings, lets take
another shot at the off airport stuff? It has been addressed before but
there are new readers and pilots who haven't been participants.
When is the last time you, YOU did the "what if..." game and bothered
to look off the road with the evaluation of a landing area?
The most recent foray with the pilot and his C-210 in Louisiana who
destroyed his airplane with ineptitude during his attempt to salvage
his already proven lack of skills and planning, has prompted a number
of posts.
Once again, I have more than 13,000 hours in the lowest reaches of the
airspace system in crop dusting, aka Ag Flying, and have made many off
airport landings.
What are some of the things to consider if you are faced with the
heartpounding reality of an engine failure and an off airport
unscheduled landing? Hmmmmm? I promise you, been there and done that
more than once.
Hey, this is educational. If you want to report me to the nearest FAA
FSDO be my guest and I'll entertain them with my tales and how legal I
was at the time.
Interested? Let's see your input......
Ol Shy & Bashful

Of course we are....at least I am. I have yet to make one so any tips you
have I will devour...

Repost from Dec. 2004 for those who missed it back then.
Forget about the airplane, concentrate on saving lives.


Slowest possible foreward speed at touch down, no matter what the surface
is. Maintain control and do not stall the aircraft! Falling out of the sky
30 feet above the ground will kill passengers faster than a controlled crash
straight ahead.


If you have a choice land into the wind and or uphill if possible.


Reduce sources of ignition. Turn off fuel and electrical as much as
possible.


Prepare your passengers for impact after touchdown. Seatbelts tight, knees
up, wrap your arms around your knees, face down into your thighs. Your
objective is to keep your passengers and yourself: 1)alive 2)conscious and
3)mobil, in that order.


Land "with" the rows, furrows, ditch, traffic etc.


Do what ever it takes to reduce your chances of rolling or tumbling the
aircraft. Keep the centerline of the aircraft pointed in the direction that
you are traveling.


Look for power poles, not lines. You're able to see poles a lot sooner
than you'll ever see the lines. Do not forget about guy wires.


Land "behind" the house rather than in front. The odds are better that the
power lines enter from the front.


If you try to land on a road and there is a house or building nearby, odds
are 50/50 that there will be power lines crossing the road.


Open a door prior to touchdown. A bent airframe, deep snow, or mud, may
prevent you from opening it after you stop moving.


Realize that freshly plowed fields not only have furrows but tend to be
soft. A gear up landing (if possible) may prevent your gear from digging in
and cartwheeling your airplane.


Think about why a potential landing spot is in the condition that it is.
Many times areas of long grass aren't mowed for a reason.... rocks? swamp?.
Avoid them unless you are familiar with the area (and if you have a choice).


Look beyond your landing spot. You may be proud of the approach and
touchdown that you make... right up to the point that you skid into a
drainage ditch.


There are some great survival books and articles available. Read a couple
then buy a survival kit to keep in the plane. Remember the name of the game
is survival, not luxury, carry things that will keep you warm and dry. Don't
forget to carry water on every flight.

Keep in mind what happens to your landing surface
through out the year and with weather changes. A field that you may
repeatedly fly over and think that would make a great emergency landing spot
may turn into an unseen swamp after even a light rain. In much of the
Midwest those perfectly flat farm fields make great options to consider, but
maybe not after periods of rain. Dark soil will retain more water than
sandy soil.


Those same fields that are soft and smooth in the summer may turn rock hard
and rough as hell if there isn't any snow cover. Watch out for farm fields
that were disked and
chisel plowed in the fall but no snow cover to make them smooth. Perfect
for
ripping your gear off no matter what direction you land. In this situation
I look for short grass without rocks because I know it hasn't changed. Here
the rocks are in the ridges and the land that happens to be farmed isn't
irrigated or farmed. Perfect landing spot this time of year would be a
field with a cover crop of rye or wheat with an irrigation system. I know
it will be smooth and rock free.


The same idea can be transferred to about lakes. The lake that you fly by
all summer long may turn into your best option once winter comes and it is
frozen over. Watch for ice fishermen... if the lake can support their cars,
chances are it will support your airplane. Avoid lakes without ice
fisherman, this can mean the ice isn't thick enough or that it is a spring
fed lake and doesn't freeze completely. Watch for snow drifts and touch
down as softly as possible, remember braking action will be nill.


Oh, and if you successfully land on a road, make the fire trucks and other
vehicles move before you try to take off.

Jim

If you're faced with a last-second decision to go over or go under the
wires - go under. Better to slide her in fast than stall and crash
nose-down.

Carry clothing appropriate to the terrain/geography you'll be flying
over, not just the departure point and destination.

> wrote

> Hey, this is educational. If you want to report me to the nearest FAA
> FSDO be my guest and I'll entertain them with my tales and how legal I
> was at the time.
> Interested? Let's see your input......

Sure, I am. I would expect you would be tired of typing, before I would get
tired of reading <g>

For one, I enjoy a good adventure, but most of all, it is always interesting
to hear how a person handles a situation, and wonder if you (me) would have
done anything differently. It might help to make a situation, yet unfaced,
come out a little better.
--
Jim in NC

In article . com>,
"Rob" > wrote:

> If you're faced with a last-second decision to go over or go under the
> wires - go under. Better to slide her in fast than stall and crash
> nose-down.

Be aware of the grounding wire above the power lines strung between
high-voltage towers. It is thinner and hard to see.

wrote:
If you want to report me to the nearest FAA
> FSDO be my guest and I'll entertain them with my tales and how legal I
> was at the time.

Report you for WHAT? Best I can tell, there is no requirement to even
LAND on a runway.

Dave

IIRC the problem with the Louisiana C-210 incident.. was the subsequent
departure from said narrow roadway... not the landing

BT

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Repost from Dec. 2004 for those who missed it back then.
> Forget about the airplane, concentrate on saving lives.
>
>
> Slowest possible foreward speed at touch down, no matter what the surface
> is. Maintain control and do not stall the aircraft! Falling out of the
> sky
> 30 feet above the ground will kill passengers faster than a controlled
> crash
> straight ahead.
>
>
> If you have a choice land into the wind and or uphill if possible.
>
>
> Reduce sources of ignition. Turn off fuel and electrical as much as
> possible.
>
>
> Prepare your passengers for impact after touchdown. Seatbelts tight,
> knees
> up, wrap your arms around your knees, face down into your thighs. Your
> objective is to keep your passengers and yourself: 1)alive 2)conscious and
> 3)mobil, in that order.
>
>
> Land "with" the rows, furrows, ditch, traffic etc.
>
>
> Do what ever it takes to reduce your chances of rolling or tumbling the
> aircraft. Keep the centerline of the aircraft pointed in the direction
> that
> you are traveling.
>
>
> Look for power poles, not lines. You're able to see poles a lot sooner
> than you'll ever see the lines. Do not forget about guy wires.
>
>
> Land "behind" the house rather than in front. The odds are better that
> the
> power lines enter from the front.
>
>
> If you try to land on a road and there is a house or building nearby, odds
> are 50/50 that there will be power lines crossing the road.
>
>
> Open a door prior to touchdown. A bent airframe, deep snow, or mud, may
> prevent you from opening it after you stop moving.
>
>
> Realize that freshly plowed fields not only have furrows but tend to be
> soft. A gear up landing (if possible) may prevent your gear from digging
> in
> and cartwheeling your airplane.
>
>
> Think about why a potential landing spot is in the condition that it is.
> Many times areas of long grass aren't mowed for a reason.... rocks?
> swamp?.
> Avoid them unless you are familiar with the area (and if you have a
> choice).
>
>
> Look beyond your landing spot. You may be proud of the approach and
> touchdown that you make... right up to the point that you skid into a
> drainage ditch.
>
>
> There are some great survival books and articles available. Read a couple
> then buy a survival kit to keep in the plane. Remember the name of the
> game
> is survival, not luxury, carry things that will keep you warm and dry.
> Don't
> forget to carry water on every flight.
>
> Keep in mind what happens to your landing surface
> through out the year and with weather changes. A field that you may
> repeatedly fly over and think that would make a great emergency landing
> spot
> may turn into an unseen swamp after even a light rain. In much of the
> Midwest those perfectly flat farm fields make great options to consider,
> but
> maybe not after periods of rain. Dark soil will retain more water than
> sandy soil.
>
>
> Those same fields that are soft and smooth in the summer may turn rock
> hard
> and rough as hell if there isn't any snow cover. Watch out for farm
> fields
> that were disked and
> chisel plowed in the fall but no snow cover to make them smooth. Perfect
> for
> ripping your gear off no matter what direction you land. In this
> situation
> I look for short grass without rocks because I know it hasn't changed.
> Here
> the rocks are in the ridges and the land that happens to be farmed isn't
> irrigated or farmed. Perfect landing spot this time of year would be a
> field with a cover crop of rye or wheat with an irrigation system. I know
> it will be smooth and rock free.
>
>
> The same idea can be transferred to about lakes. The lake that you fly by
> all summer long may turn into your best option once winter comes and it is
> frozen over. Watch for ice fishermen... if the lake can support their
> cars,
> chances are it will support your airplane. Avoid lakes without ice
> fisherman, this can mean the ice isn't thick enough or that it is a spring
> fed lake and doesn't freeze completely. Watch for snow drifts and touch
> down as softly as possible, remember braking action will be nill.
>
>
> Oh, and if you successfully land on a road, make the fire trucks and other
> vehicles move before you try to take off.
>
> Jim
>
>
>

In article . com>,
"Rob" > wrote:


> Carry clothing appropriate to the terrain/geography you'll be flying
> over, not just the departure point and destination.
>

Perhaps that should be WEAR clothing appropriate for the conditions.
What you have on is survival gear, what you carry in the plane is
camping gear.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Yep. See the end of my post.
> > Oh, and if you successfully land on a road, make the fire trucks and
other
> > vehicles move before you try to take off.
Jim


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:c1X9f.311$zu6.186@fed1read04...
> IIRC the problem with the Louisiana C-210 incident.. was the subsequent
> departure from said narrow roadway... not the landing
>
> BT
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Repost from Dec. 2004 for those who missed it back then.
> > Forget about the airplane, concentrate on saving lives.
> >
> >
> > Slowest possible foreward speed at touch down, no matter what the
surface
> > is. Maintain control and do not stall the aircraft! Falling out of the
> > sky
> > 30 feet above the ground will kill passengers faster than a controlled
> > crash
> > straight ahead.
> >
> >
> > If you have a choice land into the wind and or uphill if possible.
> >
> >
> > Reduce sources of ignition. Turn off fuel and electrical as much as
> > possible.
> >
> >
> > Prepare your passengers for impact after touchdown. Seatbelts tight,
> > knees
> > up, wrap your arms around your knees, face down into your thighs. Your
> > objective is to keep your passengers and yourself: 1)alive 2)conscious
and
> > 3)mobil, in that order.
> >
> >
> > Land "with" the rows, furrows, ditch, traffic etc.
> >
> >
> > Do what ever it takes to reduce your chances of rolling or tumbling the
> > aircraft. Keep the centerline of the aircraft pointed in the direction
> > that
> > you are traveling.
> >
> >
> > Look for power poles, not lines. You're able to see poles a lot sooner
> > than you'll ever see the lines. Do not forget about guy wires.
> >
> >
> > Land "behind" the house rather than in front. The odds are better that
> > the
> > power lines enter from the front.
> >
> >
> > If you try to land on a road and there is a house or building nearby,
odds
> > are 50/50 that there will be power lines crossing the road.
> >
> >
> > Open a door prior to touchdown. A bent airframe, deep snow, or mud, may
> > prevent you from opening it after you stop moving.
> >
> >
> > Realize that freshly plowed fields not only have furrows but tend to be
> > soft. A gear up landing (if possible) may prevent your gear from
digging
> > in
> > and cartwheeling your airplane.
> >
> >
> > Think about why a potential landing spot is in the condition that it is.
> > Many times areas of long grass aren't mowed for a reason.... rocks?
> > swamp?.
> > Avoid them unless you are familiar with the area (and if you have a
> > choice).
> >
> >
> > Look beyond your landing spot. You may be proud of the approach and
> > touchdown that you make... right up to the point that you skid into a
> > drainage ditch.
> >
> >
> > There are some great survival books and articles available. Read a
couple
> > then buy a survival kit to keep in the plane. Remember the name of the
> > game
> > is survival, not luxury, carry things that will keep you warm and dry.
> > Don't
> > forget to carry water on every flight.
> >
> > Keep in mind what happens to your landing surface
> > through out the year and with weather changes. A field that you may
> > repeatedly fly over and think that would make a great emergency landing
> > spot
> > may turn into an unseen swamp after even a light rain. In much of the
> > Midwest those perfectly flat farm fields make great options to consider,
> > but
> > maybe not after periods of rain. Dark soil will retain more water than
> > sandy soil.
> >
> >
> > Those same fields that are soft and smooth in the summer may turn rock
> > hard
> > and rough as hell if there isn't any snow cover. Watch out for farm
> > fields
> > that were disked and
> > chisel plowed in the fall but no snow cover to make them smooth.
Perfect
> > for
> > ripping your gear off no matter what direction you land. In this
> > situation
> > I look for short grass without rocks because I know it hasn't changed.
> > Here
> > the rocks are in the ridges and the land that happens to be farmed isn't
> > irrigated or farmed. Perfect landing spot this time of year would be a
> > field with a cover crop of rye or wheat with an irrigation system. I
know
> > it will be smooth and rock free.
> >
> >
> > The same idea can be transferred to about lakes. The lake that you fly
by
> > all summer long may turn into your best option once winter comes and it
is
> > frozen over. Watch for ice fishermen... if the lake can support their
> > cars,
> > chances are it will support your airplane. Avoid lakes without ice
> > fisherman, this can mean the ice isn't thick enough or that it is a
spring
> > fed lake and doesn't freeze completely. Watch for snow drifts and touch
> > down as softly as possible, remember braking action will be nill.
> >
> >
> > Oh, and if you successfully land on a road, make the fire trucks and
other
> > vehicles move before you try to take off.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>
>

wrote:
> Once again, I have more than 13,000 hours in the lowest reaches of the
> airspace system in crop dusting, aka Ag Flying, and have made many off
> airport landings.

Any tips for us, since you have the experience?

> What are some of the things to consider if you are faced with the
> heartpounding reality of an engine failure and an off airport
> unscheduled landing?

Rarely heard tips:

Take off your headphones. If the plane stops quickly, they'll fly
forward off your head, ripping up your ears. Also, this prevents
strangulation from the cord.

Without losing control, move front seats back as far as safely
possible. People have been killed from a yoke in their chest, while
the other person (with seat further back) has survived.

Now I have a question: if you're over a forest, is it still considered
better to mush into the tree tops? Or dive into the thick of it as
best you can?

Kev

> What are some of the things to consider if you are faced with the
> heartpounding reality of an engine failure and an off airport
> unscheduled landing? Hmmmmm? I promise you, been there and done that
> more than once.


You said that you have been there and done that more than once. Why don't
you share your experiences with us, so we can learn something?

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar

Kev wrote:

> Now I have a question: if you're over a forest, is it still considered
> better to mush into the tree tops? Or dive into the thick of it as
> best you can?

The last time this came up, the best arguments I saw were to attempt a normal
landing in the treetops. Stalling the plane into the trees risks crippling or
death due to compression of the spinal column, and it requires much less
vertical force to kill you than it does horizontal force.

Of course, if your idea of a normal landing is to stall the aircraft just above
the runway, you shouldn't be doing a normal landing in the tree tops. You should
be coming in a few knots faster.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

Dale wrote:
> "Rob" > wrote:
>
>
> > Carry clothing appropriate to the terrain/geography you'll be flying
> > over, not just the departure point and destination.
> >
>
> Perhaps that should be WEAR clothing appropriate for the conditions.
> What you have on is survival gear, what you carry in the plane is
> camping gear.
>

Where practical, anyway. I'll bring a jacket in the airplane on a
flight from Phoenix to Las Vegas in August, but it's a good bet I'm not
going to wear it. :)

-R

Kev wrote:


> Rarely heard tips:
>
> Take off your headphones. If the plane stops quickly, they'll fly
> forward off your head, ripping up your ears. Also, this prevents
> strangulation from the cord.

Bull****. Been there, done that. You'll never feel it and it won't
hurt later.

> Now I have a question: if you're over a forest, is it still considered
> better to mush into the tree tops? Or dive into the thick of it as
> best you can?

Fly the plane all the way to the crash. Never stall.

Kev wrote:

> Now I have a question: if you're over a forest, is it still considered
> better to mush into the tree tops? Or dive into the thick of it as
> best you can?

I'd try to stall or be very close to a stall just as the wheels began to
brush the leaves.

Matt

Matt
How can you tell how high you are or how tall the trees are? If you are
near stall speed, it doesn't take much to cause a full stall and you
are just a passenger waiting for the impact!
Lots of trees in the western regions that exceed 150' and thats a long
way to fall on your nose!
Once your wheels make any kind of contact with the tops of trees, it
will feel like you're being sucked right down into them with a rapid
deceleration and lots of noise as things start tearing off and bending.

Dave
Easily falls under the "...dangerous and reckless..."

Toks
Fuel contamination, night, over forested area. Engine running roughly
for :10/:15 prior to quitting. Trying to find any clear area with near
total darkness, headed for an airport beacon off in the distance.
engine finally quit cold. Headed down at best glide speed, full flaps
prior to touchdown, doors popped open (C-150), aiming for midline of
trees, seat belts pulled tight (prior to shoulder harness being common
or required) and seats full back. Impacted into tree tops under control
but jerked around when left wingtip hit the top of a pine tree and
impacted directly into a big oak tree. Both of us jacknifed over the
seat belts into the panel. Both with serious head injuries but we
survived the crash. Aircraft was destroyed. No post impact fire. Took
nearly 8 hours before we were found by a USCG helicopter that had been
dispatched to look for us. One of the crew members happened to be
looking down at the crash site when my student struck three matches in
a clump and saw the matches flare up. That was my first one and the
only one resulting in injuries to anyone. Happened in 1967.

wrote:

> Matt
> How can you tell how high you are or how tall the trees are? If you are
> near stall speed, it doesn't take much to cause a full stall and you
> are just a passenger waiting for the impact!

Yes, that is why we practice flight at minimum controllable airspeed.
You DO practice this regularly, right?


> Lots of trees in the western regions that exceed 150' and thats a long
> way to fall on your nose!

I live in PA, so our trees are generally shorter. The goal is to land
slowly enough that you don't tear off the wings and fall to the ground.
Even a fall from 50' has a high potential to be fatal or at least
cause very serious injuries. I want to get hung up in the treetops and
have them extract me with a cherry picker. :-)


> Once your wheels make any kind of contact with the tops of trees, it
> will feel like you're being sucked right down into them with a rapid
> deceleration and lots of noise as things start tearing off and bending.

I've never done this, but I assume you are roughly correct on this
point. That is why I want to be going as slowly as possible when I make
contact. I want to have to lose as little energy as possible to get
stopped. Since energy is a function of the square of velocity, every
couple of knots slower that you are makes things much better.


Matt

Matt
As a matter of fact, I ofen demonstrate slow flight with ZERO
indicated airspeed and make turns while doing so. And, I show it to
students to let them see what is possible.
Having a problem in picking out the quoted areas so bear with me? "The
idea is to fly slowly so as to not tear off the wings and fall to the
ground"? Where else are you gonna fall, and how can you prevent damage
to the airplane like tearing off the wings? I fear you have the image
of the common picture of that airplane sitting in the top of a tree
like it was intended to land there? The reality of it is, you will
crash to the ground or very near it!
As for touching the tops of the trees, I have done it and am more than
roughly correct. I've also had the experiences, many many times of
having my wheels contact crops as I was spraying, and felt the instant
drag forces that suck you down. Certainly we want to be going as slowly
as possible prior to impact but it is much better to do it under
control rather than on the edge and lose control at the first
disruption of our flight attitude and/or.airspeed.
Did you see the clips of the clown in Louisiana doing his abortive
takeoff attempt and wrecking his airplane in the process? I have no
sympathy or empathy for his ineptitude and careless operations. It
happened so fast he had no time to make any corrections and his speed
wasn't high enough for pieces to be torn off. The end result was the
same though. A wrecked aircraft that crashed into trees with extensive
damage to the plane and the vehicle/s he hit enroute to the accident
scene.

wrote:

> Matt
> As a matter of fact, I ofen demonstrate slow flight with ZERO
> indicated airspeed and make turns while doing so. And, I show it to
> students to let them see what is possible.
> Having a problem in picking out the quoted areas so bear with me? "The
> idea is to fly slowly so as to not tear off the wings and fall to the
> ground"? Where else are you gonna fall, and how can you prevent damage
> to the airplane like tearing off the wings? I fear you have the image
> of the common picture of that airplane sitting in the top of a tree
> like it was intended to land there? The reality of it is, you will
> crash to the ground or very near it!

That depends on the type of trees you land into. I've never had to make
a real emergency landing so I can't speak from first-hand experience,
however, I've seen a number of aftermaths of airplanes that have gone
down in trees. A fair number end up in the canopy, especially if they
land in evergreens. I've seen several get hung up in hardwoods. And,
yes, many, maybe even most, make it clear to the ground.


> As for touching the tops of the trees, I have done it and am more than
> roughly correct. I've also had the experiences, many many times of
> having my wheels contact crops as I was spraying, and felt the instant
> drag forces that suck you down. Certainly we want to be going as slowly
> as possible prior to impact but it is much better to do it under
> control rather than on the edge and lose control at the first
> disruption of our flight attitude and/or.airspeed.

I never suggested flying at a speed where you weren't in control. I
said I'd fly as near to a stall as possible and try to have the stall
closely correlate to the impact. Keep in mind, that if anything the
contact of the tires will impact an "anti-stalling" action to the
airplane as it will rapidly reduce the angle of attack. So being on the
verge of a stall as you make impact will almost certainly mean that you
won't ever stall the airplane completely as the AOA will lessen pretty
much instantly as you say.


> Did you see the clips of the clown in Louisiana doing his abortive
> takeoff attempt and wrecking his airplane in the process? I have no
> sympathy or empathy for his ineptitude and careless operations. It
> happened so fast he had no time to make any corrections and his speed
> wasn't high enough for pieces to be torn off. The end result was the
> same though. A wrecked aircraft that crashed into trees with extensive
> damage to the plane and the vehicle/s he hit enroute to the accident
> scene.

The clown that hit the truck mirror and ambulance? I did see that one
and I likewise have no sympathy for the pilot, and I hesitate to even
use the term pilot.


Matt

> wrote in message
> WEll...since I got some interest in the road landings, lets take
> another shot at the off airport stuff? It has been addressed before but
> there are new readers and pilots who haven't been participants.
> When is the last time you, YOU did the "what if..." game and bothered
> to look off the road with the evaluation of a landing area?

Found out a tire went soft in flight as I landed on a beach. Fashioned an
airhose out of a flexible socket extension and used the CO2 cartridges from
the life jackets to inflate the tire. Just another day in the tropics...

D.

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:25:37 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>I live in PA, so our trees are generally shorter. The goal is to land
>slowly enough that you don't tear off the wings and fall to the ground.

I read somewhere: "Picture an airport underneath you, and make the
best landing on it that you can." Sounded good to me, and easier to
remember than all that other stuff.

I'd picture it as a grass strip, too, not asphalt :)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Cub Driver wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:25:37 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I live in PA, so our trees are generally shorter. The goal is to land
>>slowly enough that you don't tear off the wings and fall to the ground.
>
>
> I read somewhere: "Picture an airport underneath you, and make the
> best landing on it that you can." Sounded good to me, and easier to
> remember than all that other stuff.
>
> I'd picture it as a grass strip, too, not asphalt :)

Yes, but the hard part is figuring out the "field" elevation. :-)


Matt

How Cool!!! I'll stick THAT one in my pilot bag of tricks!!! Had a tire
go flat on me during a landing (I think it was then) landing on a dirt
strip in the Sudan after having struggled through a sand storm. Low on
fuel and about to stick it into the sand dunes when I popped dout of
the storm and spotted what I thought was a road and headed for it.
Turned out to be a strip and I made an OK landing. My fuel was down to
one hour or less after a 10 hour ferry flight from Cairo and Khartoum
was still nearly two hours away.
Cheers
Rocky

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:36:40 GMT, "Capt.Doug" >
wrote in >::

>
>Found out a tire went soft in flight as I landed on a beach. Fashioned an
>airhose out of a flexible socket extension and used the CO2 cartridges from
>the life jackets to inflate the tire. Just another day in the tropics...

What did you do with regard to the Schrader Valve in the valve stem?

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:36:40 GMT, "Capt.Doug" >
> wrote in >::
>
>>
>>Found out a tire went soft in flight as I landed on a beach. Fashioned an
>>airhose out of a flexible socket extension and used the CO2 cartridges
>>from
>>the life jackets to inflate the tire. Just another day in the tropics...
>
> What did you do with regard to the Schrader Valve in the valve stem?

The pressure of the CO2 will overpower the spring on the valve and force it
open. When the CO2 is removed the spring pushes the valve closed. (You do
not have to manually push down the valve core to open it.)

Allen

>I live in PA, so our trees are generally shorter.

I live in State College PA, exact center of the state; and north of
here, ain't nothing but trees to the NY state line. Some are fairly
tall.

Here and there, what appears to be a clear patch is really covered by
stumps a foot or two high, that can't be seen till it's too late to go
elsewhere, and will tear and airplane and occupants to pieces.

Landing in the treetops in northern PA is the best option.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" > wrote
>
> Here and there, what appears to be a clear patch is really covered by
> stumps a foot or two high, that can't be seen till it's too late to go
> elsewhere, and will tear and airplane and occupants to pieces.
>
> Landing in the treetops in northern PA is the best option.

I had never considered that. Clearcut logging is a big thing around here,
too. Humm.
--
Jim in NC

vincent p. norris wrote:

>>I live in PA, so our trees are generally shorter.
>
>
> I live in State College PA, exact center of the state; and north of
> here, ain't nothing but trees to the NY state line. Some are fairly
> tall.
>
> Here and there, what appears to be a clear patch is really covered by
> stumps a foot or two high, that can't be seen till it's too late to go
> elsewhere, and will tear and airplane and occupants to pieces.
>
> Landing in the treetops in northern PA is the best option.
>
> vince norris

I live about 100 miles northeast of you, at the upper end of all of
those trees, just south of the border with NY. Some of the trees are
fairly tall, but I believe one poster mentioned 150' earlier in the
thread and I was responding relative to that. I worked as a logger for
6 years in Tioga and Potter counties, and, trust me, PA has few, if any,
trees that reach anywhere near 100'. Most trees were in the 50-60'
range and we'd occasionally find a hemlock that was close to 80. I
don't think we ever found a 100' tall tree and I probably cut at least
30,000 trees during my foray into logging.

Yes, beware of landing in a clearcut in northern PA. We tried to cut
the stumps pretty low, but still they are 12-24" high. They would clear
the wings of a high-wing and most of the wings of a low-wing, but
hitting a stump with the gear would ruin your entire day. Also, the
scattered tops would quickly catch the gear and flip you. I think I'd
take the trees personally and hope for a more gradual deceleration. And
I'd shoot for evergreens as they are more flexible and will snap sooner
that the hardwoods. A light airplane, even at 70 MPH, just isn't going
to break most oaks or maples. They will bend a little, but hitting one
directly would still be a pretty hard stop.

We could easily snap an 18" hemlock with a 30 ton winch on the skidder
but bending it around another tree. Even a 12" oak would stand the
skidder right on its tail and then drag it backwards!


Matt

> I worked as a logger for
>6 years in Tioga and Potter counties, and, trust me, PA has few, if any,
>trees that reach anywhere near 100'. Most trees were in the 50-60'
>range and we'd occasionally find a hemlock that was close to 80.

OK, I'll take your word for it, Matt. You've been closer to those
trees than I have.

vince norris

vincent p. norris wrote:

>>I worked as a logger for
>>6 years in Tioga and Potter counties, and, trust me, PA has few, if any,
>>trees that reach anywhere near 100'. Most trees were in the 50-60'
>>range and we'd occasionally find a hemlock that was close to 80.
>
>
> OK, I'll take your word for it, Matt. You've been closer to those
> trees than I have.

You got me curious so I did a little searching. :-)

There is (or was, not sure from this if the tree is still standing) one
tree in PA that exceeded 150', but the rest of the tall trees are in the
140 range and there aren't a lot of them.

http://www.uark.edu/misc/ents/bigtree/tallest_trees_by_state.htm