Hi!

This is a question to all you out there flying between commercial fields and
uncontrolled private strips.

In Europe these days, there is some legislation coming reg access to
airports, and security.

Basically, it involves that any person inside the fence should be "clean" in
other words go through a scanner and security check before allowed out to
the ramp.
Which makes sense.

However, what happenes when a C172 flies from a grass strip, and lands on
tha capital's international airport.

No one has "scanned" him at the grass strip, and thus he is not "clean". He
could be carrying a s***load of explosives on board and tax over to the
commercial planes, right?
Doeas he have to stop at the taxiway and be "checked" out by security before
taxiing to the hangar?

Do you have any rules for these sort of things in the US or other parts?

how about flying clubs operating from commercial airports? Do you have to go
through a security check every time to access the C150?

Anywere on the net I can learn more about these things in different
countries?

Thanks,

Frode Berg
Norway

In article >,
"Frode Berg" > wrote:

> Hi!
>
> This is a question to all you out there flying between commercial fields and
> uncontrolled private strips.
>
> In Europe these days, there is some legislation coming reg access to
> airports, and security.
>
> Basically, it involves that any person inside the fence should be "clean" in
> other words go through a scanner and security check before allowed out to
> the ramp.
> Which makes sense.
>
> However, what happenes when a C172 flies from a grass strip, and lands on
> tha capital's international airport.
>
> No one has "scanned" him at the grass strip, and thus he is not "clean". He
> could be carrying a s***load of explosives on board and tax over to the
> commercial planes, right?
> Doeas he have to stop at the taxiway and be "checked" out by security before
> taxiing to the hangar?
>
> Do you have any rules for these sort of things in the US or other parts?
>
> how about flying clubs operating from commercial airports? Do you have to go
> through a security check every time to access the C150?
>
> Anywere on the net I can learn more about these things in different
> countries?

Those procedures reflect a basic ignorance of aviation on the part of
those proposing them. It sounds as if the German "Greens" are just
trying another proposal to harass GA, with no real benefit.

Generally, airlines and GA have separate ramps, where security is
enforced. You cannot taxi up to the airline ramp and unload stuff into
an airliner. Airline airports have security standards and enforce them.

Wilbur, I mean Orville, says:

by Orval Fairbairn > Nov 15, 2005 at 04:41 PM


In article >,
"Frode Berg" > wrote:

> Hi!
>
> This is a question to all you out there flying between commercial
fields
and
> uncontrolled private strips.
>
> In Europe these days, there is some legislation coming reg access to
> airports, and security.
>
> Basically, it involves that any person inside the fence should be
"clean" in
> other words go through a scanner and security check before allowed out
to
> the ramp.
> Which makes sense.
>
> However, what happenes when a C172 flies from a grass strip, and lands
on
> tha capital's international airport.
>
> No one has "scanned" him at the grass strip, and thus he is not
"clean".
He
> could be carrying a s***load of explosives on board and tax over to the

> commercial planes, right?
> Doeas he have to stop at the taxiway and be "checked" out by security
before
> taxiing to the hangar?
>
> Do you have any rules for these sort of things in the US or other
parts?
>
> how about flying clubs operating from commercial airports? Do you have
to go
> through a security check every time to access the C150?
>
> Anywere on the net I can learn more about these things in different
> countries?

Those procedures reflect a basic ignorance of aviation on the part of
those proposing them. It sounds as if the German "Greens" are just
trying another proposal to harass GA, with no real benefit.

Generally, airlines and GA have separate ramps, where security is
enforced. You cannot taxi up to the airline ramp and unload stuff into
an airliner. Airline airports have security standards and enforce them.<<


Orville knows what he is talking about. Stories such as the below,
airplane thefts, dismantling of airplanes by thieving pilots, are made up
by the Greens, in concert with the American media that has it in for GA.
For the real story, listen to Boyer the Destroyer.


"Drunk Driver Breached Newark Airport Security
The Breach Occured Saturday Night


Nov 15, 2005 5:25 am US/Eastern
NEWARK A major security breach finally reported at Newark Liberty Airport
- the worst at the airport since September 11, 2001

A wild driver got on the runway on Saturday and was driving around
unchallenged.

The federal government says if it knew about it, it would have shut the
airport down, but the Port Authority didn't report the breach for hours.

Police confirm that a Chevrolet Avalanche barrelled through an armed
checkpoint at 9:00 p.m. on Saturday and the driver was 45 year-old Eugene
Peters of Tinton Falls, New Jersey.

He drove undetected for 45 minutes. Port Authority Police finally found
and stopped the truck only when Peters tried to exit the secure area.
Police say Peters was drunk."

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
>
> "Drunk Driver Breached Newark Airport Security
> The Breach Occured Saturday Night
>
>
> Nov 15, 2005 5:25 am US/Eastern
> NEWARK A major security breach finally reported at Newark Liberty Airport
> - the worst at the airport since September 11, 2001
>
> A wild driver got on the runway on Saturday and was driving around
> unchallenged.
>
> The federal government says if it knew about it, it would have shut the
> airport down, but the Port Authority didn't report the breach for hours.
>
> Police confirm that a Chevrolet Avalanche barrelled through an armed
> checkpoint at 9:00 p.m. on Saturday and the driver was 45 year-old Eugene
> Peters of Tinton Falls, New Jersey.
>
> He drove undetected for 45 minutes. Port Authority Police finally found
> and stopped the truck only when Peters tried to exit the secure area.
> Police say Peters was drunk."
>
>

Was he not detected when he "barreled through an armed checkpoint at 9:00
p.m." if he wasn't then how did they know he did it. Was the check point he
"barreled through" really armed or were the people manning the check point
armed?

>>by "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net> Nov 15, 2005 at 11:44 AM


"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
>
> "Drunk Driver Breached Newark Airport Security
> The Breach Occured Saturday Night
>
>
> Nov 15, 2005 5:25 am US/Eastern
> NEWARK A major security breach finally reported at Newark Liberty
Airport
> - the worst at the airport since September 11, 2001
>
> A wild driver got on the runway on Saturday and was driving around
> unchallenged.
>
> The federal government says if it knew about it, it would have shut the
> airport down, but the Port Authority didn't report the breach for
hours.
>
> Police confirm that a Chevrolet Avalanche barrelled through an armed
> checkpoint at 9:00 p.m. on Saturday and the driver was 45 year-old
Eugene
> Peters of Tinton Falls, New Jersey.
>
> He drove undetected for 45 minutes. Port Authority Police finally found
> and stopped the truck only when Peters tried to exit the secure area.
> Police say Peters was drunk."
>
>

Was he not detected when he "barreled through an armed checkpoint at 9:00

p.m." if he wasn't then how did they know he did it. Was the check point
he
"barreled through" really armed or were the people manning the check
point

armed?<<

Excellent question, and one which PASNY should definitely have to answer.

The airlines have something like this here. The only way this effects
GA in the U.S. is flying into D.C.

In article >,
says...

>
>Generally, airlines and GA have separate ramps, where security is
>enforced. You cannot taxi up to the airline ramp and unload stuff into
>an airliner. Airline airports have security standards and enforce them.


Generally - but not always.
I have frequently found myself parking at a GA ramp and walking into, through
around under over security filters for passengers boarding or deplaning from
commercial flights. I suppose if I had a bomb in my flight bag I could "try" to
get it into a plane's hold during the tenth of a second when nobody's looking -
but it would be tough.

I don't think it's a serious threat. Just to be there, on the "clean" side of
the ramp with flights boarding you have to be so deep into the system I have a
hard time imagining terrorists investing the necessary training hours. And then
they'd have to coordinate with known arrivals and departures, and compensate
for delays etc. It's one thing to happen to walk past an airliner boarding on
the same ramp - it's another to hang out for forty-five minutes waiting for
flight 191 to arrive, then, to try to dash up and throw a flight bag into the
hold. A million people would notice you.

GF

Frode Berg wrote:

> No one has "scanned" him at the grass strip, and thus he is not "clean". He
> could be carrying a s***load of explosives on board and tax over to the
> commercial planes, right?
> Doeas he have to stop at the taxiway and be "checked" out by security before
> taxiing to the hangar?
>
> Do you have any rules for these sort of things in the US or other parts?

Some. There are no rules for scanning people loading and departing from private
strips, and few (if any) rules at what we call uncontrolled airports. But you
can't land a light plane at a commercial airport and just taxi up where the
commercial planes are. At some airports (like Shenandoah Valley Regional in
Virginia), there's a line on the pavement. You stay on one side and the
commercial guys are on the other. You could get as close as perhaps 30 meters
before someone yells at you. On one hand, a suicide pilot could cross that line
and travel that 30 meters before anyone could stop him. On the other hand, the
commercial flights out of SHD carry only perhaps 15 passengers.

At a larger airport (such as Knoxville, Tennessee), the closest you could get
without the controller complaining would be more like 200 meters. It's much more
likely that someone on the ground could do something to stop you if you tried to
taxi into an airliner there.

At a major airport (such as Atlanta or Newark), there's no way you'd be able to
get anywhere near the commercial planes.

George Patterson
If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
radio.

Skylune wrote:

> Police confirm that a Chevrolet Avalanche barrelled through an armed
> checkpoint at 9:00 p.m. on Saturday and the driver was 45 year-old Eugene
> Peters of Tinton Falls, New Jersey.

Last time I looked, Chevrolet didn't make aircraft of any sort.

George Patterson
If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
radio.

interesting the somewhat weird ideas that float around amongst
the public about airport security... took up a passenger not
long ago, her very first flight in a 'small airplane'; she
was astounded (and a little bit worried) that I did not ask her
to remove her shoes somewhere in the process...

may be I'll include a shoes removing routine to my passengers
briefing if it helps;

--Sylvain

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:11:59 -0800, Sylvain > wrote:

>
>interesting the somewhat weird ideas that float around amongst
>the public about airport security... took up a passenger not
>long ago, her very first flight in a 'small airplane'; she
>was astounded (and a little bit worried) that I did not ask her
>to remove her shoes somewhere in the process...
>
>may be I'll include a shoes removing routine to my passengers
>briefing if it helps;

That's a slippery slope.

Don

In the winter I always carry a Zippo and often my old
Marbles brass match case. I also always fly with several
knives and usually a gun or two, never know when you may
have to survive in a cold place and find something to eat.
Years ago I flew some Red Chinese around the Wichita area,
made it a point to fly them over the Titan missile silos and
McConnell AFB. Never a bad idea to brag a little about our
freedom and the power to defend it.

If I was flying good looking young women, maybe I'd require
a strip search [just kidding].


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm




"Don Tuite" > wrote in
message ...
| On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:11:59 -0800, Sylvain >
wrote:
|
| >
| >interesting the somewhat weird ideas that float around
amongst
| >the public about airport security... took up a passenger
not
| >long ago, her very first flight in a 'small airplane';
she
| >was astounded (and a little bit worried) that I did not
ask her
| >to remove her shoes somewhere in the process...
| >
| >may be I'll include a shoes removing routine to my
passengers
| >briefing if it helps;
|
| That's a slippery slope.
|
| Don

"Sylvain" > wrote

> she
> was astounded (and a little bit worried) that I did not ask her
> to remove her shoes somewhere in the process...
>
> may be I'll include a shoes removing routine to my passengers
> briefing if it helps;

Perhaps just to see if they have bad foot odor that might stink up your
plane <g>
--
Jim in NC

Sylvain wrote:
>
> interesting the somewhat weird ideas that float around amongst
> the public about airport security... took up a passenger not
> long ago, her very first flight in a 'small airplane'; she
> was astounded (and a little bit worried) that I did not ask her
> to remove her shoes somewhere in the process...
>
> may be I'll include a shoes removing routine to my passengers
> briefing if it helps;

With the new leather interior in the Super Lancair ES, we take our shoes
off before getting in... Did the same thing with a super detailed Yankee
one time, forgot I'd powdered mine that day...

"George Patterson" >
> Some. There are no rules for scanning people loading and departing from
> private strips, and few (if any) rules at what we call uncontrolled
> airports. But you can't land a light plane at a commercial airport and
> just taxi up where the commercial planes are.

I have. A few years ago I pulled up beside a 767 and picked up one of the
crew. I did get permission from the operator though.

moo

hi!

Thanks for all replies.

Just a follow up to the reply below.

How about the runways at these airports?
Or are there seperate GA runways at the majors?

I just want to find out how these things are working other parts of the
world, because there are some new legislations about to be imposed, and it
would be good to try to influence them somewhat...

Again, thanks,

Frode Berg


"George Patterson" > skrev i melding
news:X8yef.750$Ov1.159@trndny08...
> Frode Berg wrote:
>
>> No one has "scanned" him at the grass strip, and thus he is not "clean".
>> He could be carrying a s***load of explosives on board and tax over to
>> the commercial planes, right?
>> Doeas he have to stop at the taxiway and be "checked" out by security
>> before taxiing to the hangar?
>>
>> Do you have any rules for these sort of things in the US or other parts?
>
> Some. There are no rules for scanning people loading and departing from
> private strips, and few (if any) rules at what we call uncontrolled
> airports. But you can't land a light plane at a commercial airport and
> just taxi up where the commercial planes are. At some airports (like
> Shenandoah Valley Regional in Virginia), there's a line on the pavement.
> You stay on one side and the commercial guys are on the other. You could
> get as close as perhaps 30 meters before someone yells at you. On one
> hand, a suicide pilot could cross that line and travel that 30 meters
> before anyone could stop him. On the other hand, the commercial flights
> out of SHD carry only perhaps 15 passengers.
>
> At a larger airport (such as Knoxville, Tennessee), the closest you could
> get without the controller complaining would be more like 200 meters. It's
> much more likely that someone on the ground could do something to stop you
> if you tried to taxi into an airliner there.
>
> At a major airport (such as Atlanta or Newark), there's no way you'd be
> able to get anywhere near the commercial planes.
>
> George Patterson
> If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
> radio.

Frode Berg wrote:

> How about the runways at these airports?
> Or are there seperate GA runways at the majors?

That varies. Some major airports (Raleigh, for example) have one runway which is
usually assigned to light aircraft landing there. Even in those cases, all
aircraft taking off, regardless of size, are usually assigned the same runway.
IIRC, I've always landed on runway 32 and always taken off on either 23L or 5R
when I've gone to RDU.

George Patterson
If a tank is out of ammunition, what you have is a sixty ton portable
radio.

In article >,
"Frode Berg" > wrote:

> hi!
>
> Thanks for all replies.
>
> Just a follow up to the reply below.
>
> How about the runways at these airports?
> Or are there seperate GA runways at the majors?

Both, but GA can also use the "airline" runways, but not vice-versa.


> I just want to find out how these things are working other parts of the
> world, because there are some new legislations about to be imposed, and it
> would be good to try to influence them somewhat...

It sounds as if the Greens are romping and stomping again!

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.