Howdy folks,
I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.

Here's the picture:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie

Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?

Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?
Please no answers like "2 acres can be attempted/CIA bush style" . I
want safety in mind! I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
but not sure if that's enough.

Thanks for your time folks. I look forward to your response.

If you buy a super cub, you can just about it fly it out of your garage
:-) I think there's a picture going the rounds of someone airborne
while flying out of a hangar somewhere.

Paul kgyy wrote:
> If you buy a super cub, you can just about it fly it out of your garage
> :-) I think there's a picture going the rounds of someone airborne
> while flying out of a hangar somewhere.
>
There certainly is a pic of the Maule doing that down in Moultrie.

> wrote in message
> Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
> interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
> be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
> Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?
> Please no answers like "2 acres can be attempted/CIA bush style" . I
> want safety in mind! I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
> but not sure if that's enough.

The Pa-18-150 requires 400' ground roll for take-off on a standard day at
sea level, and less for landing. Double that to 800' with clear approach and
departure corridors (no tree lines and not over your neighbors house) and
you should be happy.

D.

wrote:
> Howdy folks,
> I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
> Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
> aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
>
> Here's the picture:
> http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie
>
> Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?
>
Scanned from "Mr Piper and His Cubs" Devon Francis,Iowa State Press - a
interesting book if you want the Cub's history:

"...It was at the invasion of Okinawa, which had to be neutralized lo
permit the use of the air forces' mightiest bombers on the Japanese home
islands, that the virtuosity of the lightplane reached a new high. Back
at Fort Sill, Capt. Tony Piper had experimented with as nmty-yet
workable-an idea as ever was inflicted on pilots.
Known as the "Brodie Device," and named not for the man who jumped off
the Brooklyn Bridge but for an army lieutenant named James Brodie who
pushed for it, it was engineered to permit an L-4 to take off from and
land on a cable strung between a brace of stan*chions. The airplane with
a hook at (he center of gravity atop the wing was mounted in a heavy
nylon sling that dangled from a trolley on the cable. To take off, an
L-4 pilot opened his throttle, sped down the cable, and yanked a lanyard
to free his hook. Landing, he jock*eyed his plane to engage the hook in
the sling.
Tony Piper was one of the first to try out the Brodie Device. Curious
about what reduction in drag would result from removing the landing
gear, he flew off and on the Brodie without wheels-naturally without
authority. The risk was not in an accident. It
was in all the explaining that he would have to do if he crashed the
airplane. The Brodie, happily, worked.
For Okinawa, army artillery had heen set up in the adjoining Keraina
ReUo Islands to shell the Japanese defenses. It needed pho*tography and
air observation, but the Keramas had no suitable area for a landing
strip. The Brodie Device had been installed on some LSTs. The first such
ship, in tact, to be outfitted with it was chris*tened the USS Brodie.
The pilols were ready. They had been schooled by Lt. Earl B. Montgomery,
a pilot with the 77th Infantry Division Artillery.
Brodie cuds zeroed-in the rounds from the Keramas onto the Okinawa
Japanese. Not a pilot or airplane was lost.
Joe E. Brown, the comic, flew in Cubs to entertain the troops. So did
comedian Bob Hope, ("A Cub," wrote Hope in a newspaper column, "is a
Mustang [fighter] that wouldn't eat its cereal.") So did Ernie Pyle. He
flew off a Brodie to his last assignment, a rendezvous with a sniper's
bullet on le Shima."

On 30 Nov 2005 11:40:47 -0800, wrote in
. com>:

>Howdy folks,
> I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
>Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
>aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.

>Here's the picture:
>http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie

>Anyone seen that before?

No.

> Was it practical?

Brodie thought it was.

> Did they actuallly use it?

Not much, I gather.

<http://stonebooks.com/archives/050807.shtml>

<http://www.aerofiles.com/brodie-rig.html>

> ... I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
>but not sure if that's enough.

If the acres are all square, you will be buying a box
that is roughly 1040 feet on each side. The diagonal
would be 1470 feet.

If the property is rectangular rather than square, the
dimensions would get longer.

Marty

I beg to differ. An acre is 43560 sq ft. So that makes
it 208.7' x 208.7'.

I beg to differ. An acre is indeed 43560 square feet, but 208.7 x 208.7 is
one of an infinity of shape factors. For instance, it could be one inch
wide by about a hundred miles long.

Jim


"Flyingmonk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I beg to differ. An acre is 43560 sq ft. So that makes
> it 208.7' x 208.7'.
>

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Howdy folks,
> I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
> Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
> aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
>
> Here's the picture:
> http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie
>
> Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?

Strangely enough, there has been a cub (I think it was a cub, but it might
not have been one) with this rig at OSH for several years, now. It has some
pictures and storyboards explaining how it worked. Very interesting.
--
Jim in NC

Never mind, he was talking about 25 square acres not 1 square acre
anyways. I jumped the gun again. :<)

> Never mind, he was talking about 25 square acres not 1 square acre

He bought a four-dimensional plot of land?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

There's a couple of videos floating around somewhere in the net here, I
can't seam to find it now, that had a cub take-off in 18' and landed in
what looks to be about 20-25'

I thought Jay had them on his website, but I couldn't find it.

On 30 Nov 2005 15:33:41 -0800, "Flyingmonk" > wrote:

>There's a couple of videos floating around somewhere in the net here, I
>can't seam to find it now, that had a cub take-off in 18' and landed in
>what looks to be about 20-25'

http://sophist.cs.slcc.edu/~scub/SuperCub18ftTO.mpg
http://sophist.cs.slcc.edu/~scub/SuperCubLand.mpg

I don't remember where I found them.

-Scott

Cool, much thanks...

wrote:

> Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?

Yes, I've seen it. They strung wires like that on booms from the sides of LSTs.
The plane was swung out and hung on the wire. It worked well for takeoffs. They
used the system to launch spotter aircraft during invasions. Usually the planes
were expected to land on the area being invaded. You can find mention of this
system if you read up on the invasion of Sicily.

> Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
> interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
> be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
> Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?

A stock Super Cub takes 452' to get off the ground and 1,150' to clear a 50'
obstacle. If you set up a strip 50' wide and 1,200' long, that's 1.37 acres. If
you buy a square plot 1,200' on a side, that's a bit over 33 acres. If there are
no obstacles on your neighbors' land, you can get by with less, but then you'd
better hope no bird decides to eat cherries and then perch on your neighbor's fence.

Don't have that much land? Get a different plane. A J-3 takes only 730' to clear
a 50' obstacle. Or you could get a Huskey or one of the more powerful Maules.

You also need to worry about the performance figures published by manufacturers
(such as those I just listed). Many of them are what a plane in good shape will
do from a hard-surfaced runway. Increase them by 10% for grass.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Maule Driver wrote:

> There certainly is a pic of the Maule doing that down in Moultrie.

Yeah, but you have to keep in mind that that "hangar" is part of the
manufacturing facility. It's about 300' long.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> Paul kgyy wrote:
> > If you buy a super cub, you can just about it fly it out of your garage
> > :-) I think there's a picture going the rounds of someone airborne
> > while flying out of a hangar somewhere.
> >
> There certainly is a pic of the Maule doing that down in Moultrie.

That would be a very good way to avoid crosswinds in the first part of the
takeoff roll! <g>
--
Jim in NC

On 30 Nov 2005 11:40:47 -0800, wrote:

>I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
>Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
>aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
>
>Here's the picture:
>http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie

Neat photo! Thanks for the link. But why is a Grasshopper in Cub
Yellow? Did the Navy use yellow camo?
>
>Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?

Yes, it was used in the Pacific, though more often it launched Stinson
L-5s than Piper L-4s. Here's a photo of an LST with a Stinson on the
wire: www.pipercubforum.com/lbird.htm


>
>Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
>interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
>be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
>Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?
>Please no answers like "2 acres can be attempted/CIA bush style" . I
>want safety in mind! I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
>but not sure if that's enough.

Length is more important than acreage. 2000 feet would be nice, since
a J-3 Cub has no flaps.

Good neighbors are important too.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On 30 Nov 2005 12:30:01 -0800, "Paul kgyy" >
wrote:

>If you buy a super cub, you can just about it fly it out of your garage
>:-) I think there's a picture going the rounds of someone airborne
>while flying out of a hangar somewhere.

That's a Maule, or anyhow the photo I have seen shows a Maule.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:47:52 GMT, Maule Driver
> wrote:

>Tony Piper was one of the first to try out the Brodie Device. Curious
>about what reduction in drag would result from removing the landing
>gear, he flew off and on the Brodie without wheels-

Wouldn't have been feasible. It was standard practice for Brodie
pilots to be trained to step out onto the landing gear in the event
that the engine quit, in order to prop the plane, thus saving the LST
crew from having to lower the plane to the deck again for a re-start.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 05:14:00 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>A J-3 takes only 730' to clear
>a 50' obstacle

I would not count on this as a regular thing!

One of the Cubs I fly (as seldom as possible) can't get airborne in
730 feet.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

And here I thought the forth dimention was time. LOL

> When you first start out it may take 25 acres but as you get better
> you can start selling the land to pay for the plane.

No... start buying the surrounding land and lease it to other pilots who
want to live near a runway.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Morgans wrote:

> That would be a very good way to avoid crosswinds in the first part of the
> takeoff roll! <g>

"Caution - wake turbulence - departing forklift." :-)

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Cub Driver wrote:

> Neat photo! Thanks for the link. But why is a Grasshopper in Cub
> Yellow? Did the Navy use yellow camo?

I'd guess it's a training aircraft.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

wrote:
> Howdy folks,
> I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
> Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
> aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
>
> Here's the picture:
> http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie
>
> Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?

At the museum (Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, National Air and Space
Museum) we have an L-5 outfitted with a Brodie device. One of the
curators has a copy of the training film and showed it during a docent
training session. I've never heard so much laughter from so many
pilots. The thing does work, but I don't know if I'd try it!
>
> Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
> interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
> be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
> Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?
> Please no answers like "2 acres can be attempted/CIA bush style" . I
> want safety in mind! I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
> but not sure if that's enough.
>
We just bought 2 acres on an airstrip that someone else developed.
Seems an easier way to go, or you can develop it for other folks.

Margy
> Thanks for your time folks. I look forward to your response.
>

Hey Margie, any chance a walk-in can view that film?

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:04:15 -0500, Margy > wrote:

wrote:
>>...I am
>> interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
>> be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
>> Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?
>> Please no answers like "2 acres can be attempted/CIA bush style" . I
>> want safety in mind! I have some options to get maybe around 25 acres,
>> but not sure if that's enough.

I guess it depends on how good a pilot are you? :)

If you're good you could get a Cub into a small strip, 50x500', which
is just over 1/2 acre... but it's pretty tight. Twice as wide and
twice as long is much more realistic, so I'd think 2-3 acres is a LOT
more realistic... but that's just the strip alone, not much room for a
house, if you could even buy such a narrow strip of land, and you've
got to consider what's around it, tall trees or whatever. A square
1000' on a side is about 23 acres.

-Dana
--
--
If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half.

Margy wrote:

>> Secondly -- and this has nothing to do with the above question -- I am
>> interested in purchasing some land out in the country and would like to
>> be sure I can eventually fly a Cub or Super cub into "my backyard".
>> Anyone know how many acres are needed for a decent grass landing strip?


I have many friends with their own airstrips. The smallest is on 15
acres and goes diagonal on the property from corner to corner and is
1300 feet. No obstacles on the approaches other than a barb wire fence.
I can get my Bonanza in and out of there but not when I am very heavy.
If I as building my own I would have 3000 feet.

"Margy" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > Howdy folks,
> > I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
> > Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
> > aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
> >
> > Here's the picture:
> > http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie
> >
> > Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?
>
> At the museum (Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, National Air and Space
> Museum) we have an L-5 outfitted with a Brodie device.

Recently spent a full day at Udvar-Hazy. You haven't been if you haven't
been to Udvar-Hazy. Once it is filled it will be beyond belief. What a
place! We all owe Steven Udvar-Hazy and the other folks that donated a huge
Thank You!Spent a day and a half at NASM also.

> Margy

Flyingmonk wrote:
> Hey Margie, any chance a walk-in can view that film?
>
One of the curators from downtown has a single copy on his laptop. I
doubt I'll ever get to see it again. Hopefully at some point some of
this stuff will get to be available to the general public.

Margy

Dave Stadt wrote:
> "Margy" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Howdy folks,
>>> I was browsing the web and came upon this odd photograph of the Piper
>>>Cub strung on wires above the ground. Apparently it was used to launch
>>>aircraft and catch them without landing/takeoff.
>>>
>>>Here's the picture:
>>>http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/us_navy/pipercub_brodie
>>>
>>>Anyone seen that before? Was it practical? Did they actuallly use it?
>>
>>At the museum (Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, National Air and Space
>>Museum) we have an L-5 outfitted with a Brodie device.
>
>
> Recently spent a full day at Udvar-Hazy. You haven't been if you haven't
> been to Udvar-Hazy. Once it is filled it will be beyond belief. What a
> place! We all owe Steven Udvar-Hazy and the other folks that donated a huge
> Thank You!Spent a day and a half at NASM also.
>
I agree and new things come in all the time, so if you haven't been
there in a few months, you haven't been there.
>
>>Margy
>
>
>

"Margy" > wrote in message
...
> Flyingmonk wrote:
> > Hey Margie, any chance a walk-in can view that film?
> >
> One of the curators from downtown has a single copy on his laptop. I
> doubt I'll ever get to see it again. Hopefully at some point some of
> this stuff will get to be available to the general public.

Can't you get some of those little consoles with a TV in it, that will play
a VCR clip when you walk up to it and press a button?

That sounds like it would be educational, to me. It is time for you to get
a grant for some, and be indispensable again, right Margy? ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Shame... Thank's anyways.

Great idea Jim.

Morgans wrote:
> "Margy" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Flyingmonk wrote:
>>
>>>Hey Margie, any chance a walk-in can view that film?
>>>
>>
>>One of the curators from downtown has a single copy on his laptop. I
>>doubt I'll ever get to see it again. Hopefully at some point some of
>>this stuff will get to be available to the general public.
>
>
> Can't you get some of those little consoles with a TV in it, that will play
> a VCR clip when you walk up to it and press a button?
>
> That sounds like it would be educational, to me. It is time for you to get
> a grant for some, and be indispensable again, right Margy? ;-)
I think there are others in the museum working on stuff like this. I
don't know if that particular clip would make it. Once you start
dealing with rights and all of that stuff I run away and let the
professionals handle it :-).

Margy