OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.

We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
things start falling apart.
Holy crap!
In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.

I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.

I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.

By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.

OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
fun now.
I am embarassed by my peformance.

- So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
- Take a couple weeks off and relax?
- Take some time to read and review some videos?
- Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
instructor can connect?
- Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
- Get a vasectomy?

I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.

OK-the boilerplates.
About 18 hours flying.
About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
ha!)

Thanks and regards,

Gary

Sorry - I posted this to the wrong group.
Meant to post to .student

Gary
As a check pilot in a 141 school, I do the pre-solo phase checks and
you are just about at the point of can or can't. I've found it takes on
average 45-55 landings to get the idea of how to do it safely? You are
not off the mark and going thru the usual frustrations. Stick with it
and suddenly it will make sense and you'll look back and laugh.

Gary G wrote:
> Sorry - I posted this to the wrong group.
> Meant to post to .student

No problem - go ahead.

I started flying powered aircraft at an age
of nearly 40, and it's not as easy to learn
as earlier. I flew gliders for some time
and started again after a pause of 20 years.

It took me 10 hours and 103 landings before
the first solo. The airspeed problems feel
familiar - IMHO, they belong to the learning
curve. My training airplane, a Piper Tomahawk,
is particularly difficult to trim properly
for an airspeed, as the trim mechanism is a
spring instead of an aerodynamic tab.

Just count the frustration as a necessary
evil, bite the bullet and go ahead. Training
makes the master.

The feeling of the first solo is unique, you'll
remember it the rest of your life.

--

Tauno Voipio (CPL-A, CFII)
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

Gary G wrote:

<snip>

> OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
> to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
> fun now.
> I am embarassed by my peformance.

<snip>

> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.

<snip>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Gary

Hi Gary,

I've often found, for myself, that I suck worst JUST before the "click".
that indefinable moment when it starts to come together on a particular
maneuver or procedure.

Early on, once I was cleared for solo, I went up by myself and did nothing
but landings because I was unhappy with them. One after another.

first 11 were just awful. Rotten. Then, all of the sudden, the 12th was
pretty good. From there it was onwards and upwards.

Lots of people feel embarassed at one point or another. Feel like the
present problem presents an insuperable wall. But they get through it.

I won't presume to try and convince you of staying with it, but just recall
you aren't the first person to be in this situation. and lots of them got
though just fine.

Gregg

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:55:23 -0600, Gary G
> wrote:

>OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
>We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
>I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
>things start falling apart.
>Holy crap!
>In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
>around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.
>
>I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
>plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.
>
>I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
>but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.
>
>By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
>get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.
>
>OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
>to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
>fun now.
>I am embarassed by my peformance.
>
>- So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
>- Take a couple weeks off and relax?
>- Take some time to read and review some videos?
>- Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
> instructor can connect?
>- Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
>- Get a vasectomy?
>
>I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
>because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
>OK-the boilerplates.
>About 18 hours flying.
>About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
>Thanks and regards,
>
>Gary


Man, you need to relax a little and focus on throttle corrections and
slow corrections on control inputs.

Make one good pattern entry and remember to maintain the exact pattern
altitude each time.

Sheesh when you get to the right position on the runway cut the
throttle your bound to land.......lol

Are these all solo?


Regards
Daveb

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:55:23 -0600, Gary G
> wrote:

>OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
>We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
>I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
>things start falling apart.
>Holy crap!
>In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
>around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.
>
>I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
>plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.
>
>I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
>but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.
>
>By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
>get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.
>
>OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
>to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
>fun now.
>I am embarassed by my peformance.
>
>- So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
>- Take a couple weeks off and relax?
>- Take some time to read and review some videos?
>- Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
> instructor can connect?
>- Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
>- Get a vasectomy?
>
>I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
>because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
>OK-the boilerplates.
>About 18 hours flying.
>About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
>Thanks and regards,
>
>Gary
I was checked out for solo at about 12 hours and with the exception
of wind it just seemed second nature, lucky I suppose.
This was in a pa-28-140
Daveb

Way too early to throw in the towel....you're just getting started. Did you
run into someone in the airport coffee shop who told you that s/he soloed in
10 hours? 15? Who are you comparing yourself to?

KIck back, take on one problem at a time, and try to put them in context.
Not starting abeam the numbers every time? Horrors! Can't find that in the
regulations or practical test standards. Whatever "errors" are made at that
point are easily corrected further down the road, so don't sweat it.

As I understand it, you get to the final approach leg more or less
satisfactorily. At that point you are, what, a mile out? A minute at a
nominal 60 knot groundspeed? A whole minute available for you to use as you
wish? Fine. Establish a power setting of your choice, with a little help
from the POH. Configure the airplane for landing (flaps). You should be able
to see the desired landing spot directly over the nose. Trim, Check your
airspeed and adjust the power accordingly. Trim. Watech how "the spot" moves
on the windshield...if it moves up the runway, you will overshoot and
should re-adjust power. Trim. If it moves off of the runway surface into the
grass or whatever, you will land short and should add a touch of power.
Trim. You should be able to take your hands off of the yoke at any time
without having the airspeed change. While doing all this, remember that good
landings are slow landings and that you should avoid being too fast.

When you pass over the end of the runway you should be no more than ten feet
up, max. Pitch up to level flight and pull the power off. Now the airplane
has lots of aerodynamic drag and no power. What is going to keep it flying?
Kinetic energy, but that is ebbing fast and the nose wants to drop. Pick it
up to level flight again and repeat the process. As you feel the airplane
sink, and you will, make the front of the cowling just obscure the far end
of the runway and wait for the wheels to touch. If you drift sideways, add a
touch of aileron into the wind and keep the airplane straight with opposite
rudder.

Didn't land on the centerline? I can remember my instructor hounding me
about that when I was working on my ATP, but not when I was a student pilot.
Sure, it's a laudable goal, but if you land to one side or the other the
world will not stop revolving.

Only one of your thoughts I go along with is taking a flight or two with
another instructor.

Bob Gardner


"Gary G" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
> We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
> I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
> things start falling apart.
> Holy crap!
> In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
> around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.
>
> I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
> plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.
>
> I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
> but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.
>
> By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
> get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.
>
> OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
> to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
> fun now.
> I am embarassed by my peformance.
>
> - So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
> - Take a couple weeks off and relax?
> - Take some time to read and review some videos?
> - Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
> instructor can connect?
> - Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
> - Get a vasectomy?
>
> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
> OK-the boilerplates.
> About 18 hours flying.
> About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Gary

"Gary G" > wrote in message

> OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.

Relax. You're fine. Spend 2 or 3 days doing something else - don't even
think about flying. So far, no one here or anywhere was born knowing how to
fly. 9,982 hours from now, you'll still occasionally say "God, that landing
sucked!"

John Gaquin wrote:
> Relax. You're fine. Spend 2 or 3 days doing something else - don't even
> think about flying. So far, no one here or anywhere was born knowing how to
> fly. 9,982 hours from now, you'll still occasionally say "God, that landing
> sucked!"


I never say that. My passengers, OTOH....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

On 12/6/05 10:55 AM, in article , "Gary
G" > wrote:

> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
> OK-the boilerplates.
> About 18 hours flying.
> About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Gary

I've come to the conclusion that learning comes in plateaus. Usually it
seems like I'm on the verge of jumping to the next plateau just when I think
I suck the most.

Get back in the plane and get ready for the next plateau.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

>>>>> "GG" == Gary G <Gary> writes:
GG> - Take a couple weeks off and relax?
Yes. Though I would say only a week.

GG> - Go fly somewhere else once or twice and
GG> see if a different instructor can connect?

Maybe. Can't hurt. Might help because often different instructors
insist on different ways of doing something and maybe that's what you
need.

Something which helped me during landing, and which I didn't learn
until I had a couple hundred hours--speed control. I got an
instructor who really insisted I trim for proper speed in the pattern
and not let it wander about, and it helped landings a lot. However, I
don't think that single bit of advice is quite what you need. Instead
as others have posted, you need for the whole business to click.

Get some good sleep for a few days. The brain does its best learning
during sleep.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:32:06 GMT, Tauno Voipio
> wrote:

>It took me 10 hours and 103 landings before
>the first solo.

Forty? We *dreamed* of being forty!

I took my first flight lesson at 66. Various problems intervened, but
48 hours dual and 115 landings got me to solo a year later.

It was all fun (well, mostly). Stick with it, Gary!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

"Gary G" wrote:

> - So, ar there some tactics I should consider?

Relax and keep at it. Everyone goes through days like that learning to
land. Make sure your airspeed is right on final.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Gary G wrote:
> OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
> We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
> I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
> things start falling apart.
> Holy crap!
> In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
> around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.
>
> I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
> plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.
>
> I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
> but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.
>
> By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
> get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.
>
> OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
> to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
> fun now.
> I am embarassed by my peformance.
>
> - So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
> - Take a couple weeks off and relax?
> - Take some time to read and review some videos?
> - Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
> instructor can connect?
> - Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
> - Get a vasectomy?
>
> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
> OK-the boilerplates.
> About 18 hours flying.
> About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Gary
You need to breathe through your eyes during the flare, and wear a
womans garter (rose in front) to keep you distracted. Seriously though
if a landing isn't going well ask you inst. if you can try some
go-arounds. It worked for me. I was more successful with a "do over"
then trying to salvage a landing that is not working. Three years & 350+
landings later they still go haywire from time to time for me. Maybe I
need to get my vasectomy checked?

Gary G wrote:
> OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
> We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
> I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
> things start falling apart.
> Holy crap!
> In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
> around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.

I still have days like that... sometimes I'll be doing greasers, and
then all the sudden I'll go up one day and have to call it quits after
two landings before I break the airplane. Hell, my dad still does it
occasionally (at least in our plane), and hes a 10k+ hour ATP... it
happens. Give it a day or two, and you'll be back to normal.

Nothing beats practice and expereince. That you don't have yet. The
only way to get it is to keep on keeping on. In 500 landings you'll be
doing it subconsciously.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Gene Seibel wrote:
> Nothing beats practice and expereince. That you don't have yet. The
> only way to get it is to keep on keeping on. In 500 landings you'll be
> doing it subconsciously.

Nice theory bad practise..
gravity wins when you stop thinking

Gary G wrote:
> Sorry - I posted this to the wrong group.
> Meant to post to .student

gary
I am also a student pilot who soloed in September. Before that I also
was at the same point you are. I could not get lined up on final I
forgot to watch airspeed and as for the center line forget it I have
been to both sides and even completely off the edge of the runway ( my
cfii had to take over more than once) I also stopped a lesson after
three attempts when I just did not think I was learning anything .
Yes I also did some introspective thinking along the line will I
EVER get this. Yes it souds so simple line up keep the numbers (
airspeed) and flare at the right point to gently touch down.I would
miss an approach and then have my cfii take over and gently land saying
see nothing to it.
Well after bouncing down the runway..... landing HARD nothing like
running out of air speed when 3 or 4 feet up and just plain missing
everyhting I started to get it first one then two then all of a sudden
it just clicked ... I can not explain it but my cfii said all along
stick to it it will come to you. he was right. as a side note it took
me 35 hours to solo. so do not feel bad.
My advice is stick to it. learn from your mistakes and let bad
lessons go much better to be on the ground wishing you were flying
than be flying and wishing you were not. Do not be afraid to say I have
had enough today and know your limits.
Soon you will be past this learning step and look back on it like I
do and chuckle at why did it take so long.

Just a bad day! I am now at about 400 HRS and nearing 900 landings and I still
have those days that it just does not go good on landings. Then one night on a
flight I was sure it was going to be ugly, dark 40 degree x wind gusting 15 to
21 knots. I was glad it was dark and no one would see how bad it would be!
Turned out to be one of the best to my amazement. So you just never know. Keep
up the practice it will get better.

Ron Gardner

Gary G wrote:

> OK, I had just about "2 steps backward" day yesterday flying.
>
> We're just focussing on pattern and landing.
> I'm fine on everything. then after the turn to final,
> things start falling apart.
> Holy crap!
> In fact, I did so bad, I called it quits after 3 times
> around. I was just completely flustered and embarassed.
>
> I'm not 100% starting abeam the numbers, not getting the
> plane setup right - but I generally make up for that.
>
> I correct a bit on base and final for "high/low fast/slow",
> but still have a few issues getting the right airspeed.
>
> By short final, I'm not on the centerline, can't quite
> get back on, and then blow the flare, and things go goofy.
>
> OK - I've read the posts before. But now I'm just about
> to the solo point, and am feeling that I'm not having any
> fun now.
> I am embarassed by my peformance.
>
> - So, ar there some tactics I should consider?
> - Take a couple weeks off and relax?
> - Take some time to read and review some videos?
> - Go fly somewhere else once or twice and see if a different
> instructor can connect?
> - Take clarinet lessons with Squidward?
> - Get a vasectomy?
>
> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.
>
> OK-the boilerplates.
> About 18 hours flying.
> About 42-45 landings (although I figure the first 10 or so don't count
> as they are just still in the "what the hell is an airplane" phase -
> ha!)
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Gary

Sounds kinda dorky, because nothing can take the place of real flying
experience, but put some time in on your home simulator. MSFS or
X-Plane, whatever. Flying a good square pattern in flight simulator is
harder than it is in a real airplane because of the reduced visual
cues. What it will do is help you practice your sequence...abeam
numbers, throttle back, flaps 10 degrees, base at 45 degrees to the
threshold, etc. Getting this sequence down while managing airspeed and
altitude can be tough, but rarely is a good landing made without a good
setup. An instructor once told me "you can't make ice cream out of
horse****."

Flight simulator is actually good for practicing pitch/power settings
for your final too. Give it a few hours and when you get in the air
again it will be a lot easier.

Zane

Gary G wrote:

> I'm really frustrated today and haven't even booked another flight
> because I'm pretty underconfident at the moment.

It's just your slow spell -- I think everyone goes through that.

The problem with flying lessons is that you end up trying to please
your instructor, mostly doing drills that have little in common with
the kind of flying you'll be doing after you get your license. It's
definitely important to be able to land the plane, and you'll get
better with practice (just as you probably did driving a car), but in
real life, approach and landing is a couple of minutes of a 3-4 hour
cross-country leg, and you don't always have the priviledge of flying a
textbook pattern -- in fact, since I fly mainly into towered or MF
airports, I very rarely do. Just try to get the plane down and stopped
without leaving any parts on the runway.

The most important things about flying are weather, airspace, weather,
weather, weather, airspace, and weather. Weather is *way* more
complicated than the simple intro in ground school lets on, and it's
going to keep surprising you for at least your first 450 hours (that's
where I am now). I worry far more about understanding the weather now
than I do about where I flare or how I fly my base leg (aside from not
hitting anyone or anything on the way down).


Best of luck, and don't let the little details discourage you,


David

None of them are solo. I'm hoping I might
actually learn how to fly first . . hee hee.