What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term thrown around a lot
and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's just a term aircraft
sales people throw around use loosely.


Dallas

In article >,
"Dallas" > wrote:

> What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term thrown around a lot
> and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's just a term aircraft
> sales people throw around use loosely.

If it has a single cabin door that everyone enters through and walk up a
central aisle to get to the cockpit, it is cabin class.
Small cabin class include...
Cessna 320, 340, 400, 420 series.
Piper Malibu, Navaho, Cheyenne

Dallas > wrote:

> What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term thrown around a lot
> and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's just a term aircraft
> sales people throw around use loosely.

My understanding, at least for the small singles and light twins, is that
cabin class seating is the difference between a Bonanza A36 seating and a
Bonanza V35 seating. IOW, instead of all seats facing forward, passenger
seating is arranged in such a way that two of the four seats face the rear
of the aircraft. This is also similar to the passenger compartment of most
standard sized limousines.



--
Peter

If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does
not make "cabin class."


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Dallas > wrote:
|
| > What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term
thrown around a lot
| > and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's
just a term aircraft
| > sales people throw around use loosely.
|
| My understanding, at least for the small singles and light
twins, is that
| cabin class seating is the difference between a Bonanza
A36 seating and a
| Bonanza V35 seating. IOW, instead of all seats facing
forward, passenger
| seating is arranged in such a way that two of the four
seats face the rear
| of the aircraft. This is also similar to the passenger
compartment of most
| standard sized limousines.
|
|
|
| --
| Peter

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message

> If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does
> not make "cabin class."

I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to be termed cabin
class. I've flown several airplanes over the years, such as 400 series
Cessnas and some small-med turboprops, configured for both airline and
charter/corporate use, all of which were termed cabin class by ops, mx, and
the Fed, but none of which offered stand-up headroom. There are numerous
exec jets that don't offer stand-up headroom. I don't pretend to know the
exact specs, if any exist, but I don't think stand up is one of them.

see
http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Entering-Business-Aviation,-Part-I:-Types-of-Aircraft&id=33419
"A corporate flight attendant is typically utilized on a
"cabin class" aircraft. They are larger aircraft with
usually 19 or less seats, where you can easily get up and
walk around the cabin. Compared with a Westwind, Lear, or
Cessna, the larger jets have an aisle to walk up and down
upon and the headroom usually is adequate to allow easy
passage of anyone under 6' tall." end of quote from linked
article.

The Beech 1900 was stretched vertically to make the 1900D
with a taller cabin than the 1900/and other King Airs, so it
has stand-up room. You have to stoop in a King Air and a
Lear 35, Beech Duke, all the 400 series Cessna's require a
deep stoop or almost hands and knees.

A Duke, for instance is a wonderful airplane once you are
seated, same for a 421C, same for a lot of airplanes that
are called "cabin class" by a sales department that is
trying to sell a charter.

When Bill Lear introduced the Lear 20 series, people
complained about the small cabin and his answer was he'd
rather sit in a small cabin for 1 hour than have walking
around room for 3 hours [something like that].


"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
. ..
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
|
| > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating
does
| > not make "cabin class."
|
| I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to
be termed cabin
| class. I've flown several airplanes over the years, such
as 400 series
| Cessnas and some small-med turboprops, configured for both
airline and
| charter/corporate use, all of which were termed cabin
class by ops, mx, and
| the Fed, but none of which offered stand-up headroom.
There are numerous
| exec jets that don't offer stand-up headroom. I don't
pretend to know the
| exact specs, if any exist, but I don't think stand up is
one of them.
|
|

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:KB97g.17784$ZW3.1154@dukeread04...
> If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does
> not make "cabin class."

About the smallest aircraft (that I know of) with a "stand up" cabin is the
Citation Excel.

Most twin turboprops are "cabin class" (ie, King Air) but their cabin height
is about 4'8" high. So it's more a "hunched over" rather than "stand up"
cabin.
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
>> If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does
>> not make "cabin class."
>
> I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to be termed cabin
> class. I've flown several airplanes over the years, such as 400 series
> Cessnas and some small-med turboprops, configured for both airline and
> charter/corporate use, all of which were termed cabin class by ops, mx,
> and the Fed, but none of which offered stand-up headroom. There are
> numerous exec jets that don't offer stand-up headroom. I don't pretend to
> know the exact specs, if any exist, but I don't think stand up is one of
> them.
See my response to Jim.

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:01b7g.17787$ZW3.13225@dukeread04...
> see
> http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Entering-Business-Aviation,-Part-I:-Types-of-Aircraft&id=33419

Nice, but that article is more of a sales promo than real data.

> "A corporate flight attendant is typically utilized on a
> "cabin class" aircraft. They are larger aircraft with
> usually 19 or less seats, where you can easily get up and
> walk around the cabin. Compared with a Westwind, Lear, or
> Cessna, the larger jets have an aisle to walk up and down
> upon and the headroom usually is adequate to allow easy
> passage of anyone under 6' tall." end of quote from linked
> article.

Commuter aircraft are quite different than what we're discussing here.

Jim Macklin > wrote:

> If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does
> not make "cabin class."

You know, Jim, I may have been duped by those sales people. :)

--
Peter

After a few thousand hours in King Airs, I would agree with
the hunch. The 1900D is more comfortable.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:KB97g.17784$ZW3.1154@dukeread04...
| > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating
does
| > not make "cabin class."
|
| About the smallest aircraft (that I know of) with a "stand
up" cabin is the
| Citation Excel.
|
| Most twin turboprops are "cabin class" (ie, King Air) but
their cabin height
| is about 4'8" high. So it's more a "hunched over" rather
than "stand up"
| cabin.
| --
| Matt
| ---------------------
| Matthew W. Barrow
| Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
| Montrose, CO
|
|
|

Cabin Class is the class of homeowner you become after you're forced to sell
your house to pay for owning the airplane (or because your wife kicked you
out of the house after you bought the airplane).
VLJ are known as "Tent Class" aircraft,
Citations/Lears/Hawkers are known as "VFMHS Class" (very fast mobile
homeless shelters)
Jim

"Dallas" > wrote in message
.net...
> What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term thrown around a
lot
> and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's just a term
aircraft
> sales people throw around use loosely.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>

Ask a aircraft maker or a salesman to define cabin class and
you may get two different answers. Ask a charter operator
and you get a third.

That article was just what I came on first, thought I'd cite
a source other than myself.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:01b7g.17787$ZW3.13225@dukeread04...
| > see
| >
http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Entering-Business-Aviation,-Part-I:-Types-of-Aircraft&id=33419
|
| Nice, but that article is more of a sales promo than real
data.
|
| > "A corporate flight attendant is typically utilized on a
| > "cabin class" aircraft. They are larger aircraft with
| > usually 19 or less seats, where you can easily get up
and
| > walk around the cabin. Compared with a Westwind, Lear,
or
| > Cessna, the larger jets have an aisle to walk up and
down
| > upon and the headroom usually is adequate to allow easy
| > passage of anyone under 6' tall." end of quote from
linked
| > article.
|
| Commuter aircraft are quite different than what we're
discussing here.
|
|

No! A salesman lie? Never, sure it will carry 6 people and
baggage no-stop to Denver.


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin > wrote:
|
| > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating
does
| > not make "cabin class."
|
| You know, Jim, I may have been duped by those sales
people. :)
|
| --
| Peter

How to make a small fortune in the aircraft or horse
business...start with a large fortune.



"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
| Cabin Class is the class of homeowner you become after
you're forced to sell
| your house to pay for owning the airplane (or because your
wife kicked you
| out of the house after you bought the airplane).
| VLJ are known as "Tent Class" aircraft,
| Citations/Lears/Hawkers are known as "VFMHS Class" (very
fast mobile
| homeless shelters)
| Jim
|
| "Dallas" > wrote in
message
| .net...
| > What constitutes a cabin class aircraft? I see the term
thrown around a
| lot
| > and I wondered if it had a precise criteria or if it's
just a term
| aircraft
| > sales people throw around use loosely.
| >
| >
| > Dallas
| >
| >
|
|

"John Gaquin" > writes:

> > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does not
> > make "cabin class."
>
> I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to be termed cabin
> class. [...]

Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or not the cabin is
pressurized.

- FChE

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Gaquin" > writes:
>
>> > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does not
>> > make "cabin class."
>>
>> I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to be termed cabin
>> class. [...]
>
> Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or not the cabin is
> pressurized.
>
Cessna 402?

LoadStar




"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "John Gaquin" > writes:
| >
| >> > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating
does not
| >> > make "cabin class."
| >>
| >> I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment
to be termed cabin
| >> class. [...]
| >
| > Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or
not the cabin is
| > pressurized.
| >
| Cessna 402?
|
|

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote

> Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or not the cabin is
> pressurized.

The one that makes the most sense to me, is the one about everyone entering
though the same door, and going forward between the seats, to get to the
pilot's seats.
--
Jim in NC

Cabin class means you can get up and walk around in flight.

-Robert

> The one that makes the most sense to me, is the one about everyone entering
> though the same door, and going forward between the seats, to get to the
> pilot's seats.

So a 747 is not cabin class? :)

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>
> So a 747 is not cabin class? :)

OK, I'll bite. How does one get to the pilot seats in a 747?
--
Jim in NC

Pressurized, Baron 58P, Beech Duke, Mooney Mustang, Cessna
P210, not cabin class, Duke comes close except it is small.

Cabin class [?] that are not pressurized, DC 3, B25
conversion, Lockheed LoadStar, Cessna Caravan, Beech 18.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote
|
| > Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or
not the cabin is
| > pressurized.
|
| The one that makes the most sense to me, is the one about
everyone entering
| though the same door, and going forward between the seats,
to get to the
| pilot's seats.
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|

And probably an enclosed potty...



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ps.com...
| Cabin class means you can get up and walk around in
flight.
|
| -Robert
|

Years and years of training and experience.



"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
|
| "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
| >
| > So a 747 is not cabin class? :)
|
| OK, I'll bite. How does one get to the pilot seats in a
747?
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message

> seated, same for a 421C, same for a lot of airplanes that
> are called "cabin class" by a sales department that is
> trying to sell a charter.

The 400 series Cessna and several other similar craft have been defined as
cabin-class for years not only by sales departments, but by operators and
feds, too, each of which carries as much or more legitimacy than your cited
article, which is naught more than someone else's sales pitch. Nice try.
Stand-up headroom would be a valid standard to start with, except that you'd
be about 50 years late in applying it.

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
>
> Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or not the cabin is
> pressurized.

Then the venerable and mighty DC-3 would not be cabin-class.

"Morgans" > wrote in message
>
> OK, I'll bite. How does one get to the pilot seats in a 747?

Starting from the ground, you climb two flights of access steps to reach the
main deck door. Once inside the craft, you climb a third flight to reach
the upper deck, turn right (usually), pass the galley, heads, emergency
egress door, and enter the flight deck. Variations on the theme if you're
flying the freighter version, but the structure's about the same. I think
it probably qualifies as cabin-class.

> OK, I'll bite. How does one get to the pilot seats in a 747?

Through a choice of several doors. Everyone does not enter the same
door unless the airport is very, very old and unable to handle multiple
doors.

"John Gaquin" > wrote

> Starting from the ground, you climb two flights of access steps to reach
> the main deck door. Once inside the craft, you climb a third flight to
> reach the upper deck, turn right (usually), pass the galley, heads,
> emergency egress door, and enter the flight deck. Variations on the theme
> if you're flying the freighter version, but the structure's about the
> same. I think it probably qualifies as cabin-class.

If you enter like the passengers, from the jetway, how do you get there?

Even this aside, a little common sense says that a 747 is cabin class,
without having to look at other definitions? <g>
--
Jim in NC

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> OK, I'll bite. How does one get to the pilot seats in a 747?
>
> Through a choice of several doors. Everyone does not enter the same
> door unless the airport is very, very old and unable to handle multiple
> doors.

The pilot does not have a door that goes directly to the cockpit, does it?

I'm starting to think that everyone here has lost every semblance of common
sense! <g>

Perhaps the "able to walk around " definition may work better.

Anyone got an exception to that one? ;-o)
--
Jim in NC

So a "P" Navajo would be "Cabin Class" but a Chieftain wouldn't be?

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Gaquin" > writes:
>
> > > If you can stand up, it is cabin class. Club seating does not
> > > make "cabin class."
> >
> > I never heard that stand-up headroom was a requirment to be termed cabin
> > class. [...]
>
> Perhaps the main operational difference is whether or not the cabin is
> pressurized.
>
> - FChE

Jim Macklin wrote:

> If you can stand up, it is cabin class.

That eliminates a large number of biz jets.

> So a "P" Navajo would be "Cabin Class" but a Chieftain wouldn't be?

Chieftain is basically a pressurize Navaho.

"Morgans" > wrote in message
>
> If you enter like the passengers, from the jetway, how do you get there?

Up one flight. The cockpit is accessed only from the upper deck.

"Morgans" > wrote in message
>
> The pilot does not have a door that goes directly to the cockpit, does it?

No, not for access. There are, however, two specific emergency egress
points directly from the cockpit.

I never knew that Chieftains were pressurized. :)
"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> > So a "P" Navajo would be "Cabin Class" but a Chieftain wouldn't be?
>
> Chieftain is basically a pressurize Navaho.

"John Gaquin" > wrote

> Up one flight. The cockpit is accessed only from the upper deck.

Just like the upper deck passengers, huh?

Yep, the 747 IS a cabin class, then! <g>
--
Jim in NC

"John Gaquin" > wrote
>
> No, not for access. There are, however, two specific emergency egress
> points directly from the cockpit.

That is interesting. Where are they, and how do they work?
--
Jim in NC

There is no official definition of "cabin class". It's purely a marketing
term, and as such, can mean whatever the marketing folks require it to mean
at any particular moment.

Sure does.


"Newps" > wrote in message
...
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > If you can stand up, it is cabin class.
|
| That eliminates a large number of biz jets.
|

"Morgans" > wrote in message news:jlq7g.84
>
> That is interesting. Where are they, and how do they work?

One is a small door on the right side equipped with a slide. When deployed,
the slide is very long and narrow, and often, I'm told, gets blown askew,
rendering it unusable. Even when used as designed, I'm told, it is a very
long run, resulting in a fairly high speed descent and a strong probability
of skin burns and other injuries.

The other is a roof hatch, slightly left of centerline and directly behind
the FE, used in conjunction with a body harness and inertia reel. Climb out
and just slide on down the side, trusting that the inertia reel will slow
your descent at the bottom as designed. If the aircraft is sitting on its
belly, sans gear, its about a 35 foot drop from the roof to the ground. My
guess is that the real trick would be to avoid all the probes, sensors, and
other pieces of metal projecting from the side of the craft on the way down.
Ouch!

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
>
> Then again, if the 747 was crashed intact, catching the cayoones on an
> antenna or pitot tube seems relatively minor. <G>

No, never relatively minor, but still better than death. I guess. <g>