Hi guys and gals!
Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think he's a regular
here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a question that's been
bugging me.
I am going to start flying lessons within the next few months, come hell or
high water, and have started investigating what is involved. Due to budget
constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced, probably only 1
lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month. (Gotta love a decent
tax refund cheque!)
I live in Australia, so this question relates to regulations in Australia.
(Obviously! :-))
I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay Pacific, that I can
learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a PPL. By Ultra Light
he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider with a lawnmower
engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be much cheaper, and
I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the licence.
One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their Jabiru to learn in,
and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with lessons in the Jabiru!
Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from start to finish?
(Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings or anything like
that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The flight school said the
average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around $8,000 in total! The
flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight instruction is $30
cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour than a C172 or PA28!
If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am I then still
licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly the smaller
Jabirus or Gazelles?
Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start somewhere.
Thanks in advance,
Crash Lander

Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll be
spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of what
you forgot in the past 29 days.

Save your money until you can afford to fly at least twice a
week, three times is better.

As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now have
certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to be
breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total time
and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats, simple,
like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many restrictions
on where you can fly and never became popular in the USA.
The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
gained at each level is transferable and applicable to the
next higher certificate. Using a less expensive airplane,
with lower cost and performance saves money.

Here are links to the USA rules
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl

Google for Australian pilot license and see
http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
links.

Browsing they have these links
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
| Hi guys and gals!
| Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think
he's a regular
| here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
question that's been
| bugging me.
| I am going to start flying lessons within the next few
months, come hell or
| high water, and have started investigating what is
involved. Due to budget
| constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced,
probably only 1
| lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
(Gotta love a decent
| tax refund cheque!)
| I live in Australia, so this question relates to
regulations in Australia.
| (Obviously! :-))
| I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
Pacific, that I can
| learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a
PPL. By Ultra Light
| he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider
with a lawnmower
| engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be
much cheaper, and
| I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the
licence.
| One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their
Jabiru to learn in,
| and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
lessons in the Jabiru!
| Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from
start to finish?
| (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings
or anything like
| that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
flight school said the
| average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
$8,000 in total! The
| flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
instruction is $30
| cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour
than a C172 or PA28!
| If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am
I then still
| licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly
the smaller
| Jabirus or Gazelles?
| Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start
somewhere.
| Thanks in advance,
| Crash Lander
|
|

typo alert 2 seat limit for LSA and LS pilots.

Actually getting the certificate (license) often takes more,
sometimes much more time. This is often a result of drawn
out training programs.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
| Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
| just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll
be
| spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of
what
| you forgot in the past 29 days.
|
| Save your money until you can afford to fly at least twice
a
| week, three times is better.
|
| As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now have
| certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to be
| breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total time
| and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats,
simple,
| like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many
restrictions
| on where you can fly and never became popular in the USA.
| The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
| limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
| gained at each level is transferable and applicable to the
| next higher certificate. Using a less expensive airplane,
| with lower cost and performance saves money.
|
| Here are links to the USA rules
|
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
|
| Google for Australian pilot license and see
| http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
| links.
|
| Browsing they have these links
| http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
| http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
| http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
| "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
| ...
|| Hi guys and gals!
|| Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think
| he's a regular
|| here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
| question that's been
|| bugging me.
|| I am going to start flying lessons within the next few
| months, come hell or
|| high water, and have started investigating what is
| involved. Due to budget
|| constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced,
| probably only 1
|| lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
| (Gotta love a decent
|| tax refund cheque!)
|| I live in Australia, so this question relates to
| regulations in Australia.
|| (Obviously! :-))
|| I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
| Pacific, that I can
|| learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a
| PPL. By Ultra Light
|| he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider
| with a lawnmower
|| engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be
| much cheaper, and
|| I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the
| licence.
|| One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their
| Jabiru to learn in,
|| and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
| lessons in the Jabiru!
|| Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from
| start to finish?
|| (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night
ratings
| or anything like
|| that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
| flight school said the
|| average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
| $8,000 in total! The
|| flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
| instruction is $30
|| cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour
| than a C172 or PA28!
|| If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am
| I then still
|| licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to
fly
| the smaller
|| Jabirus or Gazelles?
|| Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start
| somewhere.
|| Thanks in advance,
|| Crash Lander
||
||
|
|

Great advice!

I deposited the entire amount ($2,000 in 1978) with the flight center and
flew an average of 4 days/week. This made it possible to solo at 8.5 hours
and get my PPL at 42 hours. I am not bragging, just stating that what Jim
recommended really works.

Steve

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
> Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
> just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll be
> spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of what
> you forgot in the past 29 days.
>
> Save your money until you can afford to fly at least twice a
> week, three times is better.
>
> As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now have
> certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to be
> breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total time
> and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats, simple,
> like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many restrictions
> on where you can fly and never became popular in the USA.
> The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
> limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
> gained at each level is transferable and applicable to the
> next higher certificate. Using a less expensive airplane,
> with lower cost and performance saves money.
>
> Here are links to the USA rules
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
>
> Google for Australian pilot license and see
> http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
> links.
>
> Browsing they have these links
> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
>
>
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFI,A&P
>
>
> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Hi guys and gals!
> | Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think
> he's a regular
> | here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
> question that's been
> | bugging me.
> | I am going to start flying lessons within the next few
> months, come hell or
> | high water, and have started investigating what is
> involved. Due to budget
> | constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced,
> probably only 1
> | lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
> (Gotta love a decent
> | tax refund cheque!)
> | I live in Australia, so this question relates to
> regulations in Australia.
> | (Obviously! :-))
> | I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
> Pacific, that I can
> | learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a
> PPL. By Ultra Light
> | he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider
> with a lawnmower
> | engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be
> much cheaper, and
> | I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the
> licence.
> | One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their
> Jabiru to learn in,
> | and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
> lessons in the Jabiru!
> | Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from
> start to finish?
> | (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings
> or anything like
> | that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
> flight school said the
> | average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
> $8,000 in total! The
> | flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
> instruction is $30
> | cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour
> than a C172 or PA28!
> | If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am
> I then still
> | licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly
> the smaller
> | Jabirus or Gazelles?
> | Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start
> somewhere.
> | Thanks in advance,
> | Crash Lander
> |
> |
>
>

I'm glad that prepayment worked for you. When an school I worked for went
belly-up, students with money on account were left without any recourse.

Bob Gardner

"steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Great advice!
>
> I deposited the entire amount ($2,000 in 1978) with the flight center and
> flew an average of 4 days/week. This made it possible to solo at 8.5 hours
> and get my PPL at 42 hours. I am not bragging, just stating that what Jim
> recommended really works.
>
> Steve
>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
> news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
>> Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
>> just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll be
>> spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of what
>> you forgot in the past 29 days.
>>
>> Save your money until you can afford to fly at least twice a
>> week, three times is better.
>>
>> As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now have
>> certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to be
>> breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total time
>> and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats, simple,
>> like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many restrictions
>> on where you can fly and never became popular in the USA.
>> The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
>> limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
>> gained at each level is transferable and applicable to the
>> next higher certificate. Using a less expensive airplane,
>> with lower cost and performance saves money.
>>
>> Here are links to the USA rules
>> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
>>
>> Google for Australian pilot license and see
>> http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
>> links.
>>
>> Browsing they have these links
>> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
>> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
>> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
>>
>>
>> --
>> James H. Macklin
>> ATP,CFI,A&P
>>
>>
>> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> | Hi guys and gals!
>> | Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think
>> he's a regular
>> | here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
>> question that's been
>> | bugging me.
>> | I am going to start flying lessons within the next few
>> months, come hell or
>> | high water, and have started investigating what is
>> involved. Due to budget
>> | constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced,
>> probably only 1
>> | lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
>> (Gotta love a decent
>> | tax refund cheque!)
>> | I live in Australia, so this question relates to
>> regulations in Australia.
>> | (Obviously! :-))
>> | I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
>> Pacific, that I can
>> | learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a
>> PPL. By Ultra Light
>> | he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider
>> with a lawnmower
>> | engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be
>> much cheaper, and
>> | I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the
>> licence.
>> | One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their
>> Jabiru to learn in,
>> | and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
>> lessons in the Jabiru!
>> | Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from
>> start to finish?
>> | (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings
>> or anything like
>> | that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
>> flight school said the
>> | average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
>> $8,000 in total! The
>> | flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
>> instruction is $30
>> | cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour
>> than a C172 or PA28!
>> | If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am
>> I then still
>> | licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly
>> the smaller
>> | Jabirus or Gazelles?
>> | Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start
>> somewhere.
>> | Thanks in advance,
>> | Crash Lander
>> |
>> |
>>
>>
>
>

Jim Macklin wrote:
> Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
> just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll be
> spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of what
> you forgot in the past 29 days.
>
> Save your money until you can afford to fly at least twice a
> week, three times is better.

Once a month is pretty tough, but you don't need twice a week. I
averaged less than one flight a week and got my license in just about
one year with something like 47.2 hours logged.


Matt

Some schools offer discounts for pre-payment. Often those
schools are just like the new gym/health club that opened
down the street. In two months it will be closed and those
pre-paid memberships will be gone. But there are options,
schools like Spartan or Flight Safety [just to name two] are
solid companies that have been in business and you can use a
bank and write a check every lesson or once a week. If
you've got the cash, you fly often and pay as you go.

The point is that unless you fly twice a week, your progress
will be VERY slow since too much time between lessons means
you spend moist of your time re-learning the same thing over
and over and don't get to the new stuff.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
. ..
| I'm glad that prepayment worked for you. When an school I
worked for went
| belly-up, students with money on account were left without
any recourse.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| "steve" > wrote in message
| . ..
| > Great advice!
| >
| > I deposited the entire amount ($2,000 in 1978) with the
flight center and
| > flew an average of 4 days/week. This made it possible to
solo at 8.5 hours
| > and get my PPL at 42 hours. I am not bragging, just
stating that what Jim
| > recommended really works.
| >
| > Steve
| >
| > "Jim Macklin" >
wrote in message
| > news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
| >> Flying only once per month is a waste of your money,
you
| >> just can't make effective progress at that rate.
You'll be
| >> spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of
what
| >> you forgot in the past 29 days.
| >>
| >> Save your money until you can afford to fly at least
twice a
| >> week, three times is better.
| >>
| >> As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now
have
| >> certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to
be
| >> breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total
time
| >> and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats,
simple,
| >> like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many
restrictions
| >> on where you can fly and never became popular in the
USA.
| >> The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
| >> limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
| >> gained at each level is transferable and applicable to
the
| >> next higher certificate. Using a less expensive
airplane,
| >> with lower cost and performance saves money.
| >>
| >> Here are links to the USA rules
| >>
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
| >>
| >> Google for Australian pilot license and see
| >> http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
| >> links.
| >>
| >> Browsing they have these links
| >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
| >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
| >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
| >>
| >>
| >> --
| >> James H. Macklin
| >> ATP,CFI,A&P
| >>
| >>
| >> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
| >> ...
| >> | Hi guys and gals!
| >> | Just heard about this group from a regular here (I
think
| >> he's a regular
| >> | here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
| >> question that's been
| >> | bugging me.
| >> | I am going to start flying lessons within the next
few
| >> months, come hell or
| >> | high water, and have started investigating what is
| >> involved. Due to budget
| >> | constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly
spaced,
| >> probably only 1
| >> | lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
| >> (Gotta love a decent
| >> | tax refund cheque!)
| >> | I live in Australia, so this question relates to
| >> regulations in Australia.
| >> | (Obviously! :-))
| >> | I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
| >> Pacific, that I can
| >> | learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with
a
| >> PPL. By Ultra Light
| >> | he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang
glider
| >> with a lawnmower
| >> | engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would
be
| >> much cheaper, and
| >> | I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete
the
| >> licence.
| >> | One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use
their
| >> Jabiru to learn in,
| >> | and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
| >> lessons in the Jabiru!
| >> | Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c
from
| >> start to finish?
| >> | (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night
ratings
| >> or anything like
| >> | that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
| >> flight school said the
| >> | average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
| >> $8,000 in total! The
| >> | flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
| >> instruction is $30
| >> | cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per
hour
| >> than a C172 or PA28!
| >> | If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or
Gazelle, am
| >> I then still
| >> | licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified
to fly
| >> the smaller
| >> | Jabirus or Gazelles?
| >> | Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to
start
| >> somewhere.
| >> | Thanks in advance,
| >> | Crash Lander
| >> |
| >> |
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|

That is unusual, but such advice is for the average student.
Just to mention an extreme case the other way. We had a
senior partner from a major law firm who came out to learn
to fly. He had millions of dollars and was very heavily
scheduled in court. Often he would get one or two lessons a
month and then be called out of town for a trial in the
capital or even some other state for months at a stretch.
And he did some pro bono work when he saw some injustice.
The result, even though he was very intelligent and a good
study, he took 90 hours to solo. He then dropped out of
training and said he had done what he needed to do for his
ego, he soloed. Then he said that he had learned that his
schedule would never allow him to become his own pilot for
trips to various court dates. He said he knew when to quit
and how to hire a charter pilot. A wise lawyer. He might
have done better if I had been his regular instructor, but I
doubt that.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Flying only once per month is a waste of your money, you
| > just can't make effective progress at that rate. You'll
be
| > spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of
what
| > you forgot in the past 29 days.
| >
| > Save your money until you can afford to fly at least
twice a
| > week, three times is better.
|
| Once a month is pretty tough, but you don't need twice a
week. I
| averaged less than one flight a week and got my license in
just about
| one year with something like 47.2 hours logged.
|
|
| Matt

My goal is to just get up there. I'm not looking to have my licence in
record time, or anything like that. I'm only 33 years old, so I have plenty
of time, considering a lot of people don't start learning until they're in
their 50's and even later.
With 2 kids, a wife, and only 1 wage, more regular lessons are not really an
option. Once a month I should be able to afford fairly easily, with the
occasional month being able to spring for 2 or perhaps 3 at a stretch. My
question was asked in the hope that if I can in fact get my PPL in the
Jabiru or Gazelle, then I MAY in fact be able to have 2 per month as my
minimum due to the cost savings. I guess the main answer I'm looking for is
this. In Australia, if I only use a Jabiru or Gazelle from start to PPL,
would I be qualified to legally fly a Cessna 4 seater without further
training or testing?
Cheers,
Crash Lander

--

Chris Rosman
Delta Carpets Geelong
p: 5221 4222
m: 0414 936 170
f: 5221 8178
e:
"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:M0Vug.78042$ZW3.25722@dukeread04...
> Some schools offer discounts for pre-payment. Often those
> schools are just like the new gym/health club that opened
> down the street. In two months it will be closed and those
> pre-paid memberships will be gone. But there are options,
> schools like Spartan or Flight Safety [just to name two] are
> solid companies that have been in business and you can use a
> bank and write a check every lesson or once a week. If
> you've got the cash, you fly often and pay as you go.
>
> The point is that unless you fly twice a week, your progress
> will be VERY slow since too much time between lessons means
> you spend moist of your time re-learning the same thing over
> and over and don't get to the new stuff.
>
>
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFI,A&P
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> . ..
> | I'm glad that prepayment worked for you. When an school I
> worked for went
> | belly-up, students with money on account were left without
> any recourse.
> |
> | Bob Gardner
> |
> | "steve" > wrote in message
> | . ..
> | > Great advice!
> | >
> | > I deposited the entire amount ($2,000 in 1978) with the
> flight center and
> | > flew an average of 4 days/week. This made it possible to
> solo at 8.5 hours
> | > and get my PPL at 42 hours. I am not bragging, just
> stating that what Jim
> | > recommended really works.
> | >
> | > Steve
> | >
> | > "Jim Macklin" >
> wrote in message
> | > news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
> | >> Flying only once per month is a waste of your money,
> you
> | >> just can't make effective progress at that rate.
> You'll be
> | >> spending money and each lesson will be mostly review of
> what
> | >> you forgot in the past 29 days.
> | >>
> | >> Save your money until you can afford to fly at least
> twice a
> | >> week, three times is better.
> | >>
> | >> As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we now
> have
> | >> certificates issued for Student pilot, you just have to
> be
> | >> breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours total
> time
> | >> and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92 seats,
> simple,
> | >> like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many
> restrictions
> | >> on where you can fly and never became popular in the
> USA.
> | >> The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and is
> | >> limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The experience
> | >> gained at each level is transferable and applicable to
> the
> | >> next higher certificate. Using a less expensive
> airplane,
> | >> with lower cost and performance saves money.
> | >>
> | >> Here are links to the USA rules
> | >>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
> | >>
> | >> Google for Australian pilot license and see
> | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other useful
> | >> links.
> | >>
> | >> Browsing they have these links
> | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
> | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
> | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> --
> | >> James H. Macklin
> | >> ATP,CFI,A&P
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
> | >> ...
> | >> | Hi guys and gals!
> | >> | Just heard about this group from a regular here (I
> think
> | >> he's a regular
> | >> | here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a
> | >> question that's been
> | >> | bugging me.
> | >> | I am going to start flying lessons within the next
> few
> | >> months, come hell or
> | >> | high water, and have started investigating what is
> | >> involved. Due to budget
> | >> | constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly
> spaced,
> | >> probably only 1
> | >> | lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month.
> | >> (Gotta love a decent
> | >> | tax refund cheque!)
> | >> | I live in Australia, so this question relates to
> | >> regulations in Australia.
> | >> | (Obviously! :-))
> | >> | I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay
> | >> Pacific, that I can
> | >> | learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with
> a
> | >> PPL. By Ultra Light
> | >> | he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang
> glider
> | >> with a lawnmower
> | >> | engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would
> be
> | >> much cheaper, and
> | >> | I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete
> the
> | >> licence.
> | >> | One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use
> their
> | >> Jabiru to learn in,
> | >> | and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with
> | >> lessons in the Jabiru!
> | >> | Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c
> from
> | >> start to finish?
> | >> | (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night
> ratings
> | >> or anything like
> | >> | that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The
> | >> flight school said the
> | >> | average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around
> | >> $8,000 in total! The
> | >> | flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight
> | >> instruction is $30
> | >> | cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per
> hour
> | >> than a C172 or PA28!
> | >> | If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or
> Gazelle, am
> | >> I then still
> | >> | licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified
> to fly
> | >> the smaller
> | >> | Jabirus or Gazelles?
> | >> | Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to
> start
> | >> somewhere.
> | >> | Thanks in advance,
> | >> | Crash Lander
> | >> |
> | >> |
> | >>
> | >>
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

You'll have to read the Australian regulations, URLs
previously posted, to get the exact answer or ask the CFI at
the airport. But it is my understanding that you will need
a formal check-ride in the different airplane, but the
skills and experience in the small and less expensive
airplane is credited, you don't have to start over again
with each airplane type. It will be less expensive using
the less expensive airplane as much as possible.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P
USA


"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
| My goal is to just get up there. I'm not looking to have
my licence in
| record time, or anything like that. I'm only 33 years old,
so I have plenty
| of time, considering a lot of people don't start learning
until they're in
| their 50's and even later.
| With 2 kids, a wife, and only 1 wage, more regular lessons
are not really an
| option. Once a month I should be able to afford fairly
easily, with the
| occasional month being able to spring for 2 or perhaps 3
at a stretch. My
| question was asked in the hope that if I can in fact get
my PPL in the
| Jabiru or Gazelle, then I MAY in fact be able to have 2
per month as my
| minimum due to the cost savings. I guess the main answer
I'm looking for is
| this. In Australia, if I only use a Jabiru or Gazelle from
start to PPL,
| would I be qualified to legally fly a Cessna 4 seater
without further
| training or testing?
| Cheers,
| Crash Lander
|
| --
|
| Chris Rosman
| Delta Carpets Geelong
| p: 5221 4222
| m: 0414 936 170
| f: 5221 8178
| e:
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| news:M0Vug.78042$ZW3.25722@dukeread04...
| > Some schools offer discounts for pre-payment. Often
those
| > schools are just like the new gym/health club that
opened
| > down the street. In two months it will be closed and
those
| > pre-paid memberships will be gone. But there are
options,
| > schools like Spartan or Flight Safety [just to name two]
are
| > solid companies that have been in business and you can
use a
| > bank and write a check every lesson or once a week. If
| > you've got the cash, you fly often and pay as you go.
| >
| > The point is that unless you fly twice a week, your
progress
| > will be VERY slow since too much time between lessons
means
| > you spend moist of your time re-learning the same thing
over
| > and over and don't get to the new stuff.
| >
| >
| > --
| > James H. Macklin
| > ATP,CFI,A&P
| >
| > "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
| > . ..
| > | I'm glad that prepayment worked for you. When an
school I
| > worked for went
| > | belly-up, students with money on account were left
without
| > any recourse.
| > |
| > | Bob Gardner
| > |
| > | "steve" > wrote in message
| > | . ..
| > | > Great advice!
| > | >
| > | > I deposited the entire amount ($2,000 in 1978) with
the
| > flight center and
| > | > flew an average of 4 days/week. This made it
possible to
| > solo at 8.5 hours
| > | > and get my PPL at 42 hours. I am not bragging, just
| > stating that what Jim
| > | > recommended really works.
| > | >
| > | > Steve
| > | >
| > | > "Jim Macklin" >
| > wrote in message
| > | > news:0RLug.77284$ZW3.43169@dukeread04...
| > | >> Flying only once per month is a waste of your
money,
| > you
| > | >> just can't make effective progress at that rate.
| > You'll be
| > | >> spending money and each lesson will be mostly
review of
| > what
| > | >> you forgot in the past 29 days.
| > | >>
| > | >> Save your money until you can afford to fly at
least
| > twice a
| > | >> week, three times is better.
| > | >>
| > | >> As far as Australian rules, I'm in the USA and we
now
| > have
| > | >> certificates issued for Student pilot, you just
have to
| > be
| > | >> breathing. Light Sport Pilot requires 20 hours
total
| > time
| > | >> and allows you to fly Light Sport Aircraft 92
seats,
| > simple,
| > | >> like a Piper Cub. Recreational Pilot has many
| > restrictions
| > | >> on where you can fly and never became popular in
the
| > USA.
| > | >> The Private Pilot certificate requires 40 hours and
is
| > | >> limited to non-commercial, paid flying. The
experience
| > | >> gained at each level is transferable and applicable
to
| > the
| > | >> next higher certificate. Using a less expensive
| > airplane,
| > | >> with lower cost and performance saves money.
| > | >>
| > | >> Here are links to the USA rules
| > | >>
| >
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d48cecb2bbf845b79a0ca576d43f4262&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl
| > | >>
| > | >> Google for Australian pilot license and see
| > | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/ for your laws and other
useful
| > | >> links.
| > | >>
| > | >> Browsing they have these links
| > | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/learntofly.htm
| > | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/stages.htm
| > | >> http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> --
| > | >> James H. Macklin
| > | >> ATP,CFI,A&P
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
| > | >> ...
| > | >> | Hi guys and gals!
| > | >> | Just heard about this group from a regular here
(I
| > think
| > | >> he's a regular
| > | >> | here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to
ask a
| > | >> question that's been
| > | >> | bugging me.
| > | >> | I am going to start flying lessons within the
next
| > few
| > | >> months, come hell or
| > | >> | high water, and have started investigating what
is
| > | >> involved. Due to budget
| > | >> | constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly
| > spaced,
| > | >> probably only 1
| > | >> | lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first
month.
| > | >> (Gotta love a decent
| > | >> | tax refund cheque!)
| > | >> | I live in Australia, so this question relates to
| > | >> regulations in Australia.
| > | >> | (Obviously! :-))
| > | >> | I have been told by a guy I know who flies for
Cathay
| > | >> Pacific, that I can
| > | >> | learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up
with
| > a
| > | >> PPL. By Ultra Light
| > | >> | he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang
| > glider
| > | >> with a lawnmower
| > | >> | engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it
would
| > be
| > | >> much cheaper, and
| > | >> | I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to
complete
| > the
| > | >> licence.
| > | >> | One flight school I rang, actually suggested I
use
| > their
| > | >> Jabiru to learn in,
| > | >> | and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely
with
| > | >> lessons in the Jabiru!
| > | >> | Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of
a/c
| > from
| > | >> start to finish?
| > | >> | (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or
night
| > ratings
| > | >> or anything like
| > | >> | that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me.
The
| > | >> flight school said the
| > | >> | average cost would drop from around $12,000 to
around
| > | >> $8,000 in total! The
| > | >> | flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for
flight
| > | >> instruction is $30
| > | >> | cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per
| > hour
| > | >> than a C172 or PA28!
| > | >> | If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or
| > Gazelle, am
| > | >> I then still
| > | >> | licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only
qualified
| > to fly
| > | >> the smaller
| > | >> | Jabirus or Gazelles?
| > | >> | Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to
| > start
| > | >> somewhere.
| > | >> | Thanks in advance,
| > | >> | Crash Lander
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys and gals!
> Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think he's a regular
> here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a question that's been
> bugging me.
> I am going to start flying lessons within the next few months, come hell
or
> high water, and have started investigating what is involved. Due to budget
> constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced, probably only 1
> lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month. (Gotta love a decent
> tax refund cheque!)
> I live in Australia, so this question relates to regulations in Australia.
> (Obviously! :-))
> I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay Pacific, that I can
> learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a PPL. By Ultra
Light
> he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider with a lawnmower
> engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be much cheaper, and
> I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the licence.
> One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their Jabiru to learn
in,
> and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with lessons in the
Jabiru!
> Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from start to finish?
> (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings or anything
like
> that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The flight school said
the
> average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around $8,000 in total! The
> flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight instruction is $30
> cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour than a C172 or
PA28!
> If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am I then still
> licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly the smaller
> Jabirus or Gazelles?
> Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start somewhere.
> Thanks in advance,
> Crash Lander
>
> Hey Crash
You ought to try posting in aus.aviation for aussie specific questions.
rec.aviation is also great for general learning questions. Where in Aus do
you live? Like yourself i was cash limited as well as time limited. On top
of that weather interupted alot of my lessons which i could only do on
weekends. end result I soloed at 19 hours after about 1 year and got my PPL
after 140 or so hours and 5 years but hey I had a lot of fun along the way
and if I had waited until I saved the money I probably wouldnt have started
yet.
Yes you can learn in a Jabaru or gazelle but I dont think the savings are
great as some claim. Where I learnt a C150 is now about $110. The
cheapest Jabiru rate I have seen is $100
Once you learn how to fly a a basic single engine plane it only takes a
couple of hours to get approved to fly different types. A PPL give you a
license to fly any single engine less than 5700 kg without special features
like retractable undercarriage and constant speed prop. but no-one is going
to hire you one and less you get approved in the specific type.
Where do you live Crash? ( I fly out of Bacchus Marsh in Victoria - great
people and about 4 C150's)
terry
ppl

Hi Terry!
I live in Geelong, so Bacchus Marsh could be an option. I enquired at Point
Cook, and the price for a C150 is $205 for flight instruction, and $140 for
solo flight. Seems perhaps Bacchus Marsh may be cheaper. Barwon Heads was
around the same, with Geelong being slightly dearer from memory.
Point Cook wa the place that suggested getting the PPL via the Jabiru, and
the rates for it were $175 per hour for flight instruction, and $123 for
solo flight. Judging from what you said, this seems a bit dear. I will
contact Bacchus Marsh Airfield tomorrow, and ask them a few questions. I
know 1 a month is not really enough, but if the rates are good enough, I can
afford more. Can't see me getting more than 2 a month on a regular basis,
but I guess you are living proof that it can still be done! 140 hours seems
like forever to wait for your licence, but I guess it's worth it in the end.
I plan on using every bit of spare cash like tax cheques and commissions
from work (about $1000 every 6 months on average) to help get extra lessons.
How many hours do you have now? Perhaps we could go up together once I get
licenced! To be honest, I'll be stoked when I just get my SPL, and can fly
with a passenger in the training area! :-) It's been a dream to get up there
for so long, and I've decided I'm just going to do it, no matter how long it
takes. If I wait until I save up enough to do it all at once, I'll never get
started. Much like you said.
Crash Lander
"d&tm" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi guys and gals!
>> Just heard about this group from a regular here (I think he's a regular
>> here!), and thought I'd take the opporyunity to ask a question that's
>> been
>> bugging me.
>> I am going to start flying lessons within the next few months, come hell
> or
>> high water, and have started investigating what is involved. Due to
>> budget
>> constraints, the lessons will be fairly thinly spaced, probably only 1
>> lesson a month, but maybe 2 or 3 in the first month. (Gotta love a decent
>> tax refund cheque!)
>> I live in Australia, so this question relates to regulations in
>> Australia.
>> (Obviously! :-))
>> I have been told by a guy I know who flies for Cathay Pacific, that I can
>> learn to fly in an 'Ultra Light' and still nd up with a PPL. By Ultra
> Light
>> he means something like a Jabiru, and not a hang glider with a lawnmower
>> engine bolted on the back. He indicated that it would be much cheaper,
>> and
>> I'd only need about 5 hours in a Cessna to complete the licence.
>> One flight school I rang, actually suggested I use their Jabiru to learn
> in,
>> and I'd end up with a full PPL at the end, puely with lessons in the
> Jabiru!
>> Is this correct? Can it be done in this type of a/c from start to finish?
>> (Talking only to PPL here, no IFR ratings or night ratings or anything
> like
>> that.) If so, it seems like the way to go for me. The flight school said
> the
>> average cost would drop from around $12,000 to around $8,000 in total!
>> The
>> flight school said the Jabiru, or Gazelle for flight instruction is $30
>> cheaper per hour than a C150, and $60 cheaper per hour than a C172 or
> PA28!
>> If I can end up with a PPL from the Jabiru or Gazelle, am I then still
>> licenced to fly the Cessnas, or am I only qualified to fly the smaller
>> Jabirus or Gazelles?
>> Sorry for the dumb questions, but a guy needs to start somewhere.
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Crash Lander
>>
>> Hey Crash
> You ought to try posting in aus.aviation for aussie specific questions.
> rec.aviation is also great for general learning questions. Where in Aus
> do
> you live? Like yourself i was cash limited as well as time limited. On
> top
> of that weather interupted alot of my lessons which i could only do on
> weekends. end result I soloed at 19 hours after about 1 year and got my
> PPL
> after 140 or so hours and 5 years but hey I had a lot of fun along the way
> and if I had waited until I saved the money I probably wouldnt have
> started
> yet.
> Yes you can learn in a Jabaru or gazelle but I dont think the savings are
> great as some claim. Where I learnt a C150 is now about $110. The
> cheapest Jabiru rate I have seen is $100
> Once you learn how to fly a a basic single engine plane it only takes a
> couple of hours to get approved to fly different types. A PPL give you a
> license to fly any single engine less than 5700 kg without special
> features
> like retractable undercarriage and constant speed prop. but no-one is
> going
> to hire you one and less you get approved in the specific type.
> Where do you live Crash? ( I fly out of Bacchus Marsh in Victoria - great
> people and about 4 C150's)
> terry
> ppl
>
>

Crash Lander wrote:
[snip]
> with a passenger in the training area! :-) It's been a dream to get up there
> for so long, and I've decided I'm just going to do it, no matter how long it
> takes. If I wait until I save up enough to do it all at once, I'll never get
> started. Much like you said.
> Crash Lander

I truly admire your determination to persue your dream. Too bad more
people in the world don't have such conviction. Good luck and don't give
up the dream.

"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Terry!
> I live in Geelong, so Bacchus Marsh could be an option. I enquired at
Point
> Cook, and the price for a C150 is $205 for flight instruction, and $140
for
> solo flight. Seems perhaps Bacchus Marsh may be cheaper. Barwon Heads was
> around the same, with Geelong being slightly dearer from memory.
> Point Cook wa the place that suggested getting the PPL via the Jabiru, and
> the rates for it were $175 per hour for flight instruction, and $123 for
> solo flight. Judging from what you said, this seems a bit dear. I will
> contact Bacchus Marsh Airfield tomorrow, and ask them a few questions. I
> know 1 a month is not really enough, but if the rates are good enough, I
can
> afford more. Can't see me getting more than 2 a month on a regular basis,
> but I guess you are living proof that it can still be done! 140 hours
seems
> like forever to wait for your licence, but I guess it's worth it in the
end.
> I plan on using every bit of spare cash like tax cheques and commissions
> from work (about $1000 every 6 months on average) to help get extra
lessons.
> How many hours do you have now? Perhaps we could go up together once I get
> licenced! To be honest, I'll be stoked when I just get my SPL, and can fly
> with a passenger in the training area! :-) It's been a dream to get up
there
> for so long, and I've decided I'm just going to do it, no matter how long
it
> takes. If I wait until I save up enough to do it all at once, I'll never
get
> started. Much like you said.
> Crash Lander
> "d&tm" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
Hey Crash, whats the chances of this, I live in Geelong also. About 3
mins from Geelong airport but I fly
at Bacchus because it was about $30 an hour cheaper when I started. Like
you said I was happy to just fly around the training area for a while
before I started the Navs which are more expensive ( some of them cost
$500 ) which is partly why it took me 140 hours. I now have about
160 hours. You can call me during the day on 9258 7424 and I would be
happy to give you the lowdown on Bacchus Marsh and flying in General.
Terry

Thanks Terry! I most definately call you when the time gets nearer. Probably
about another 8 weeks or so if that's still OK with you.
Crash Lander
"d&tm" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Crash Lander" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi Terry!
>> I live in Geelong, so Bacchus Marsh could be an option. I enquired at
> Point
>> Cook, and the price for a C150 is $205 for flight instruction, and $140
> for
>> solo flight. Seems perhaps Bacchus Marsh may be cheaper. Barwon Heads was
>> around the same, with Geelong being slightly dearer from memory.
>> Point Cook wa the place that suggested getting the PPL via the Jabiru,
>> and
>> the rates for it were $175 per hour for flight instruction, and $123 for
>> solo flight. Judging from what you said, this seems a bit dear. I will
>> contact Bacchus Marsh Airfield tomorrow, and ask them a few questions. I
>> know 1 a month is not really enough, but if the rates are good enough, I
> can
>> afford more. Can't see me getting more than 2 a month on a regular basis,
>> but I guess you are living proof that it can still be done! 140 hours
> seems
>> like forever to wait for your licence, but I guess it's worth it in the
> end.
>> I plan on using every bit of spare cash like tax cheques and commissions
>> from work (about $1000 every 6 months on average) to help get extra
> lessons.
>> How many hours do you have now? Perhaps we could go up together once I
>> get
>> licenced! To be honest, I'll be stoked when I just get my SPL, and can
>> fly
>> with a passenger in the training area! :-) It's been a dream to get up
> there
>> for so long, and I've decided I'm just going to do it, no matter how long
> it
>> takes. If I wait until I save up enough to do it all at once, I'll never
> get
>> started. Much like you said.
>> Crash Lander
>> "d&tm" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
> Hey Crash, whats the chances of this, I live in Geelong also. About 3
> mins from Geelong airport but I fly
> at Bacchus because it was about $30 an hour cheaper when I started. Like
> you said I was happy to just fly around the training area for a while
> before I started the Navs which are more expensive ( some of them cost
> $500 ) which is partly why it took me 140 hours. I now have about
> 160 hours. You can call me during the day on 9258 7424 and I would be
> happy to give you the lowdown on Bacchus Marsh and flying in General.
> Terry
>
>