http://www.aero-news.net
just in time for Oshkosh.

In article . com>,
"Brock Boss" > wrote:

> http://www.aero-news.net
> just in time for Oshkosh.

Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.


JKG

Here's the official word on the GPSMAP 496:
http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap496/

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
>>http://www.aero-news.net
>>just in time for Oshkosh.
>
> Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.
>

Yes, and that makes this 396 owner feel good, at least until the next
price drop. Actually, I feel good having had it for a year. Has had
enormous value on several cc flights.

Amazingly how much more they can pack in the same physical package - a
little faster processor perhaps, more memory, improved (an already
great) screen. A winna!

In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
>In article . com>,
> "Brock Boss" > wrote:
>
>> http://www.aero-news.net
>> just in time for Oshkosh.
>
>Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.

MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
MSRP for the 496: $2995.00

$600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
....would you work for a company that couldn't tell the difference in
quality of its employees' normal work product and the work product of
someone on drugs without performing a test? -- socks

Looks like the same price to me...

GPSMAP 496 (Atlantic Version) Suggested Retail Price:
$2395.00 U.S.D. (for domestic US market only)



-Robert

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
> >In article . com>,
> > "Brock Boss" > wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.aero-news.net
> >> just in time for Oshkosh.
> >
> >Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.
>
> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
>
> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> ...would you work for a company that couldn't tell the difference in
> quality of its employees' normal work product and the work product of
> someone on drugs without performing a test? -- socks

In article >,
Maule Driver > wrote:
> Amazingly how much more they can pack in the same physical package - a
> little faster processor perhaps, more memory, improved (an already
> great) screen. A winna!


It doesn't look like they improved the screen, just the resolution of
the terrain and base map--probably enabled by the faster processor.

Taxi diagrams would be nice, though someone pointed out that fairly
decent (but unlabeled) airport diagrams are available if you have
CitySelect data loaded.

The AOPA directory really isn't that exciting, since I carry the paper
copy, and that seems more convenient than fiddling with the GPS.

Private airports are a big deal to some folks, not so much with me.

I notice that the 496 is advertised with the "GXM 30A" receiver/antenna.
I assume that this is the "fixed" version that cleans up the problems
they've had with the GXM 30.

Given the fairly modest upgrade over the 396, and the fact that there
are reports of Garmin fire sales on the 396, I would almost expect the
396 to be discontinued when supplies are depleted. Right now, I think
it's a pretty good bargain, especially if you're not interested in the
automotive navigation capabilities.



JKG

In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" > said:
>> >Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.
>>
>> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
>> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
>>
>> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
>Looks like the same price to me...
>
>GPSMAP 496 (Atlantic Version) Suggested Retail Price:
>$2395.00 U.S.D. (for domestic US market only)

The Garmin page lists two prices, the $2995 that I quoted for the Americas
version, and $2395 that you quoted for the Atlantic version. My guess is
that the $600 you save for the Atlantic version gets you half the
database. Comparing apples to apples, the Americas version of the 396 is
$600 cheaper than the Amercias version of the 496.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I haven't had any mail from my mother since her ISP ended up in the RBL.
I deny that I nominated them...
-- Peter Corlett

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> > "Brock Boss" > wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.aero-news.net
> >> just in time for Oshkosh.
> >
> >Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.
>
> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
>
> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.


I have heard reports of the 396 selling for $1999. Okay, that's not
$1000, let me give you $4 back.



JKG

Only if you want the Atlantic version with no XM and some other
capabilities stripped out.


JKG


In article om>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Looks like the same price to me...
>
> GPSMAP 496 (Atlantic Version) Suggested Retail Price:
> $2395.00 U.S.D. (for domestic US market only)
>
>
>
> -Robert
>
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> > In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
> > >In article . com>,
> > > "Brock Boss" > wrote:
> > >
> > >> http://www.aero-news.net
> > >> just in time for Oshkosh.
> > >
> > >Seems pretty underwhelming for almost $1000 more than the 396.
> >
> > MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
> > MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
> >
> > $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> > ...would you work for a company that couldn't tell the difference in
> > quality of its employees' normal work product and the work product of
> > someone on drugs without performing a test? -- socks

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> The Garmin page lists two prices, the $2995 that I quoted for the Americas
> version, and $2395 that you quoted for the Atlantic version. My guess is
> that the $600 you save for the Atlantic version gets you half the
> database. Comparing apples to apples, the Americas version of the 396 is
> $600 cheaper than the Amercias version of the 496.

Call it whatever you want, but $600-$800 is a pretty big delta. The 396
is just slightly over (or at) $2k, while the 496 is close to $3k.

This announcement shouldn't be very surprising, though, given the
evolution of the comparable marine products (378 / 478).


JKG

In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
>In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
>> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
>>
>> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
>
>
>I have heard reports of the 396 selling for $1999. Okay, that's not
>$1000, let me give you $4 back.

Apples to apples. What is the street price of the 496? You don't know,
because it's not selling yet. Therefore the only fair comparison is MSRP.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Like the man said: "Nothing good ever goes in /opt."
-- Tim Foreman

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> Here's the official word on the GPSMAP 496:
> http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap496/

What is this:

USB-to-PC interface cable

Last year Garmin announced MacIntosh support for their GPS's.
Is anyone using a Mac to update there aviation GPS?
I have not been able to find a MacIntosh formatted update.

In a previous article, john smith > said:
>In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>> Here's the official word on the GPSMAP 496:
>> http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap496/
>
>What is this:
>
>USB-to-PC interface cable

Uh, it's an interface cable?

>Last year Garmin announced MacIntosh support for their GPS's.

They did? Where?

>Is anyone using a Mac to update there aviation GPS?
>I have not been able to find a MacIntosh formatted update.

Me neither.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
....life suddenly made much more sense, the day I fully grokked that people
are stupid.
-- Frank Sweetser

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> >USB-to-PC interface cable

> Uh, it's an interface cable?

Are not PC connections USB now? Do any still have DB-9 serial ports?

> >Last year Garmin announced MacIntosh support for their GPS's.

> They did? Where?

That should have read "were going to add MacIntosh support".
I thought it was a press release at OSH05.

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
> >In article >,
> > (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> >> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
> >> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
> >>
> >> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
> >
> >
> >I have heard reports of the 396 selling for $1999. Okay, that's not
> >$1000, let me give you $4 back.
>
> Apples to apples. What is the street price of the 496? You don't know,
> because it's not selling yet. Therefore the only fair comparison is MSRP.

$2795. It is for sale at several online dealers.


JKG

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> >Last year Garmin announced MacIntosh support for their GPS's.
>
> They did? Where?


This was a fairly big announcement at MacWorld in January 2006, I
believe. Garmin's commitment was for full Mac support for all of their
products (including MapSource) by the end of 2006. So far, I haven't
seen much from them.



JKG

If Garmin don't offer an upgrade route, this will be pretty crappy
behavior. I guess all's fair in love, war and commerce, but I'll be a
bit PO-ed if I can't get up to the better platform without simply
selling the 396 and buying a new unit, especially since a lot of the
other bits and pieces are common. Of course, selling the 396 won't be
as easy now Garmin have cut the list price! Sigh. I guess on the scale
of airplane ownership costs, eating $1K to get up to the 496 won't be
too bad, but still...

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>> The Garmin page lists two prices, the $2995 that I quoted for the
>> Americas
>> version, and $2395 that you quoted for the Atlantic version. My guess is
>> that the $600 you save for the Atlantic version gets you half the
>> database. Comparing apples to apples, the Americas version of the 396 is
>> $600 cheaper than the Amercias version of the 496.
>
> Call it whatever you want, but $600-$800 is a pretty big delta. The 396
> is just slightly over (or at) $2k, while the 496 is close to $3k.
>
> This announcement shouldn't be very surprising, though, given the
> evolution of the comparable marine products (378 / 478).
>
>
> JKG

Elsewhere on Garmin's site, it indicates that the Atlantic version is really
the Northern Europe version, with databases, etc for that region. Also, no
XM, etc.

Not sure why anyone in the US would want that product over any of a dozen
cheaper GPS's that offer similar features and a US database.

KB

In a previous article, "Mike Granby" > said:
>If Garmin don't offer an upgrade route, this will be pretty crappy
>behavior. I guess all's fair in love, war and commerce, but I'll be a

They never have, and I doubt they ever will. Does your computer dealer
offer you an upgrade route when they bring out their next model?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
When I hear the history of some of the more ugly European cities, with
"... destroyed in 14xx, burnt in 16xx ..." I get the urge to ask why
they keep rebuilding it and if they can't get the hint.

In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>> >Last year Garmin announced MacIntosh support for their GPS's.
>> They did? Where?
>
>This was a fairly big announcement at MacWorld in January 2006, I
>believe. Garmin's commitment was for full Mac support for all of their
>products (including MapSource) by the end of 2006. So far, I haven't
>seen much from them.

I hope they offer a way to load databases for the 530 on the Mac, because
I'd love to use my laptop to do that at the airport instead of bringing
the data card home. Oh wait, that software is probably from Jepp rather
than Garmin, isn't it?


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I'm a Darwinian carnivore. I only eat things that weren't fit enough
to prevent their being killed.
-- Mike Sphar

In article . com>,
"Mike Granby" > wrote:

> If Garmin don't offer an upgrade route, this will be pretty crappy
> behavior. I guess all's fair in love, war and commerce, but I'll be a
> bit PO-ed if I can't get up to the better platform without simply
> selling the 396 and buying a new unit, especially since a lot of the
> other bits and pieces are common. Of course, selling the 396 won't be
> as easy now Garmin have cut the list price! Sigh. I guess on the scale
> of airplane ownership costs, eating $1K to get up to the 496 won't be
> too bad, but still...

As far as I know, Garmin has never offered an official upgrade path.
However, many dealers will buy your old unit (i.e. give you trade-in
dollars) when you purchase a new unit from them. The good news is that
the Garmin units historically have held pretty decent value, even after
they're superseded.

However, I just don't see anything in the 496 that makes me want to
jump. Honestly. It's a little bit faster, has City Select built-in for
the entire country (nice), has taxi diagrams (nice), and the AOPA
directory (rather a gimmick, IMO). If we were talking approach plates,
victor airways, a larger display, or traffic detection, any of those
would be a killer application. Right now, I don't see a killer
application in the 496 that is missing from the 396.



JKG

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> >This was a fairly big announcement at MacWorld in January 2006, I
> >believe. Garmin's commitment was for full Mac support for all of their
> >products (including MapSource) by the end of 2006. So far, I haven't
> >seen much from them.
>
> I hope they offer a way to load databases for the 530 on the Mac, because
> I'd love to use my laptop to do that at the airport instead of bringing
> the data card home. Oh wait, that software is probably from Jepp rather
> than Garmin, isn't it?

Though I don't have a Garmin panel-mount, I suspect that you are correct
about the database loader as a Jepp application.

When I read Garmin's announcement about Mac support (which, by the way,
is available here:
http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/011006.html), I thought that
it sounded quite aggressive. However, I believe they've already
delivered on their MotionBased commitment. I look forward to being able
to load updates to the hand held, as well as being able to work with
MapSource, all from the Mac. Hopefully it won't be too much longer.



JKG

In article >,
Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
> When I read Garmin's announcement about Mac support (which, by the way,
> is available here:
> http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/011006.html), I thought that
> it sounded quite aggressive. However, I believe they've already
> delivered on their MotionBased commitment. I look forward to being able
> to load updates to the hand held, as well as being able to work with
> MapSource, all from the Mac. Hopefully it won't be too much longer.


Ah, apparently they've fallen somewhat behind schedule:

http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/062706.html



JKG

In article . com>,
"Mike Granby" > wrote:
> > Right now, I don't see a killer application
> > in the 496 that is missing from the 396.
>
> Probably true, but I'm a gadget freak, as you know!!!

Yes, well, I'm a gadget freak but I'm also cheap, so that pretty much
results in perpetual conflict for me. When the 596 or whatever comes
next rolls along, I'm probably going to need some type of therapy!


JKG

Let us know what JA says.. I am curious.


Mike Granby wrote:
> Jonathan Goodish wrote:
>
> > However, many dealers will buy your old unit (i.e. give
> > you trade-in dollars) when you purchase a new unit
> > from them. The good news is that the Garmin units
> > historically have held pretty decent value, even after
> > they're superseded.
>
> I've got an email in to JA Air, so we'll see what they offer me!
>
> > Right now, I don't see a killer application
> > in the 496 that is missing from the 396.
>
> Probably true, but I'm a gadget freak, as you know!!!

In article >,
Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/062706.html

Garmin Provides Update on Mac Compatibility
OLATHE, KS/June 27, 2006 ‹ Garmin today announced an update on the
launch of its application support for Mac OS X version 10.4 "Tiger." The
company¹s Training Center software is now expected to be compatible with
Mac OS X version 10.4 "Tiger² by the end of 2006. Also at that time, we
will announce the expected completion date for Garmin¹s other hardware
and software applications. We thank the Mac community for their support,
understanding and patience as we work through these unanticipated
delays, and we look forward to providing Mac users with direct support
for their Garmin products.

The only problem with this statement is that 10.5 is to be announced in
two weeks and will be available for the Christmas shopping season.

Brock Boss wrote:
> http://www.aero-news.net
> just in time for Oshkosh.

Good Pictures of the new 496: http://jaair.com/496/

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Brock Boss wrote:
>> http://www.aero-news.net
>> just in time for Oshkosh.
>
> Good Pictures of the new 496: http://jaair.com/496/

All that and it finds fish too...amazing...

Jay B

> http://www.aero-news.net
> just in time for Oshkosh.

$600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?

Too bad.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?

I don't think Garmin will ever come out with a portable that has a
bigger screen than your AvMap so you'll be perpetually satisfied :)

To me the biggest 486 improvements over the 396 are the "integrated"
GXM antenna (as in no cables), AOPA directory and the taxiways.
Probably worth $600 to many pilots--especially the ones who are used to
dealing in the AMU scale. "Hey, it's only a fraction of single AMU!"

Marco

Jay and others,

Again, maybe I'm missiong something here, but we are in the cost realm of
VustaNav. No I don't have it and probably cannot afford it, but we are
talking Motion LS 800 sun readable tablet PC (or any other tablet PC to 16"
screen) with weather, synthetic vision etc etc. This seems generationally
better than the Garmin offerings and in the same price ball park.
According to the website this is what you get:
a.. WAAS GPS
b.. Solid State Gyros
c.. Barometric Pressure
d.. Sensor
e.. Battery Backup
Inertial Navigation Unit
a.. Wireless Interface Among All Components
b.. 3D HITS Navigation w/ precision approaches
c.. 2D Moving Map
d.. XM Weather
e.. IFR Approach Plates
f.. Airport Diagrams
g.. Exclusive 'Radar Vectors' Feature*
h.. Training Simulator
Unlike the 396/496 upgrade, I can see a huge amount of difference in
an'upgrade' to the vistnave system, assuming:

a. it works
b. it's supported
c. it's stable

I note that in a recent aviation magazine, there was several A3 pages on
synthetic vision systems, typical airliner price US$120,000 and up.

Again, I have no connection with the company, but if I were in the $3K-$4K
market there is a clear winner here and it doesn't begin with'G' (or 'A' for
that matter Jay).

YMMV,
Kevin

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> http://www.aero-news.net
>> just in time for Oshkosh.
>
> $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?
>
> Too bad.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Marco Leon wrote:

> To me the biggest 486 improvements over
> the 396 are the "integrated" GXM antenna
> (as in no cables)

Not sure that's true. The Garmin website lists the package as including
the "GXM 30A smart antenna" which sounds like the same USB-based device
as before.

In article . com>,
"Marco Leon" > wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?
>
> I don't think Garmin will ever come out with a portable that has a
> bigger screen than your AvMap so you'll be perpetually satisfied :)
>
> To me the biggest 486 improvements over the 396 are the "integrated"
> GXM antenna (as in no cables), AOPA directory and the taxiways.
> Probably worth $600 to many pilots--especially the ones who are used to
> dealing in the AMU scale. "Hey, it's only a fraction of single AMU!"


The 496 does not have an integrated XM antenna. Personally, I wouldn't
want it to, as reception would be terrible when yoke-mounted.

With Garmin 396s for sale at around $2000, the $600 is really $800 right
now, which is pretty darn close to a 1 AMU difference in price.

Those of us who purchased the 396 with the free auto kit (and use it for
auto navigation) actually still have a pretty good deal with the 396.
With the 496, it looks like Garmin includes the auto kit, plus
pre-loaded City Select data for the entire country, which would cost a
few hundred dollars if you purchased those capabilities for the 396.



JKG

In a previous article, "Jay Beckman" > said:
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>>
>> Brock Boss wrote:
>>> http://www.aero-news.net
>>> just in time for Oshkosh.
>>
>> Good Pictures of the new 496: http://jaair.com/496/
>
>All that and it finds fish too...amazing...

My 296 does that as well. The car kit on the 296 has impressed two people
enough that both of them are buying car-only GPSes.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"He's overweight, uninformed, and litigious. That's an American
hat-trick" - Lewis Black

Paul,

> My guess is
> that the $600 you save for the Atlantic version gets you half the
> database.
>

It gets you no XM capability.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

JA Air Center offers top value for used portable GPS units -
800-323-5966.



Mike Granby wrote:
> If Garmin don't offer an upgrade route, this will be pretty crappy
> behavior. I guess all's fair in love, war and commerce, but I'll be a
> bit PO-ed if I can't get up to the better platform without simply
> selling the 396 and buying a new unit, especially since a lot of the
> other bits and pieces are common. Of course, selling the 396 won't be
> as easy now Garmin have cut the list price! Sigh. I guess on the scale
> of airplane ownership costs, eating $1K to get up to the 496 won't be
> too bad, but still...

In a previous article, said:
>Paul,
>> My guess is
>> that the $600 you save for the Atlantic version gets you half the
>> database.
>>
>
>It gets you no XM capability.

In that case, you should be comparing it with the 296 not the 396!


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Graffiti has merely machine-gunned the surviving handwriting ability
clinging to the upturned lifeboats of the good ship 'Cursive'.
-- Saundo, on Palm Pilots

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

>> just in time for Oshkosh.
>
> $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?
>
> Too bad.

The good news--for anyone who's been sitting on the fence--is that used,
like-new 396s will now be available at a considerable saving over the price
of a new unit.

Don't forget that Garmin is very Microsoft-like in its pricing...A
vendor (Pacific Coast Avionics, I think?) said that they are mandated to
sell at whatever price Garmin sets and can't waiver from that. If they
do and Garmin finds out, then that retailer will no longer be able to
sell Garmin products.

Chris G.

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article >,
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>> In a previous article, Jonathan Goodish > said:
>>> In article >,
>>> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>>> MSRP for the 396: $2395.00
>>>> MSRP for the 496: $2995.00
>>>>
>>>> $600 is not "almost $1000" in my world.
>>>
>>> I have heard reports of the 396 selling for $1999. Okay, that's not
>>> $1000, let me give you $4 back.
>> Apples to apples. What is the street price of the 496? You don't know,
>> because it's not selling yet. Therefore the only fair comparison is MSRP.
>
> $2795. It is for sale at several online dealers.
>
>
> JKG

I'm cheap, too. That's why I have an $800 Lowrance Airmap 2000c. I am
quite happy with it, even if it doesn't have XM. It has everything
else! (Taxi diagrams, terrain awareness, all of the accessories and
software, reasonable support) I cannot justify at all spending nearly
US$3000.00 for a GPS, unless it was made of solid gold. Hell, the 296
at $1500 is out of my price range.

Chris G.

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Mike Granby" > wrote:
>>> Right now, I don't see a killer application
>>> in the 496 that is missing from the 396.
>> Probably true, but I'm a gadget freak, as you know!!!
>
> Yes, well, I'm a gadget freak but I'm also cheap, so that pretty much
> results in perpetual conflict for me. When the 596 or whatever comes
> next rolls along, I'm probably going to need some type of therapy!
>
>
> JKG

I would probably have a Lowrance (actually, I'd probably still be using
the Garmin 195) if it weren't for one thing: weather datalink.


JKG

In article ws.net>,
"Chris G." > wrote:

> I'm cheap, too. That's why I have an $800 Lowrance Airmap 2000c. I am
> quite happy with it, even if it doesn't have XM. It has everything
> else! (Taxi diagrams, terrain awareness, all of the accessories and
> software, reasonable support) I cannot justify at all spending nearly
> US$3000.00 for a GPS, unless it was made of solid gold. Hell, the 296
> at $1500 is out of my price range.
>
> Chris G.
>
> Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > "Mike Granby" > wrote:
> >>> Right now, I don't see a killer application
> >>> in the 496 that is missing from the 396.
> >> Probably true, but I'm a gadget freak, as you know!!!
> >
> > Yes, well, I'm a gadget freak but I'm also cheap, so that pretty much
> > results in perpetual conflict for me. When the 596 or whatever comes
> > next rolls along, I'm probably going to need some type of therapy!
> >
> >
> > JKG

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message ups.com...
:> http://www.aero-news.net
: > just in time for Oshkosh.
:
: $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?
:
: Too bad.
: --
: Jay Honeck
: Iowa City, IA
: Pathfinder N56993
: www.AlexisParkInn.com
: "Your Aviation Destination"
:

You know, a small dinky screen, right up against my eye, would give me plenty of data to work with. Think Apache...

"Chris G." > wrote in news:44bfa8ca$0$17954$892e7fe2
@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:

> Don't forget that Garmin is very Microsoft-like in its pricing...A
> vendor (Pacific Coast Avionics, I think?) said that they are mandated to
> sell at whatever price Garmin sets and can't waiver from that. If they
> do and Garmin finds out, then that retailer will no longer be able to
> sell Garmin products.

Isn't that price fixing? And isn't that illegal?

Obviously it's happening, so there must be some loophole.

Brian
--
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In article >,
Skywise > wrote:
> > Don't forget that Garmin is very Microsoft-like in its pricing...A
> > vendor (Pacific Coast Avionics, I think?) said that they are mandated to
> > sell at whatever price Garmin sets and can't waiver from that. If they
> > do and Garmin finds out, then that retailer will no longer be able to
> > sell Garmin products.
>
> Isn't that price fixing? And isn't that illegal?
>
> Obviously it's happening, so there must be some loophole.


Ironically, this type of price fixing (terminating dealers who don't
adhere to the minimum sale price) is not illegal under United States
anti-trust law, as determined by the Supreme Court in "United States vs.
Colgate Co." And Garmin is far from the only manufacturer who practices
a "Minimum Advertised Price" or "Minimum Sales Price" policy.

That being said, someone could probably argue an implied "agreement"
between the manufacturer and one or more dealers or wholesalers happens
somewhere in the process and, indeed, manufacturers have to be
extraordinarily careful about how they apply this type of policy.
However, the bottom line is that we won't know whether the implied
"agreement" is there or not until someone challenges the issue in court.



JKG

Uh..what is AMU?

In article >,
Bob Fry > wrote:

> Uh..what is AMU?

It's a lot of things. What's the context?

Bob Fry > wrote:
> Uh..what is AMU?

If your context is its use in the aviation newsgroups, I believe the
following definition applies:

http://www.mooneyevents.com/acronyms.html

"AMU: aviation monetary unit = $1,000 U.S. Useage: "That alternator
replacement cost me 1.5 AMUs," though it would have cost $300 for a car and
$600 for a boat. (Thanks to Kelly Vinton.)"

Prior to encountering it here, I would have answered "atomic mass unit."

See http://pad39a.com/gene/amu.html


Bob Fry wrote:
> Uh..what is AMU?

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article >,
> Maule Driver > wrote:
>
>>Amazingly how much more they can pack in the same physical package - a
>>little faster processor perhaps, more memory, improved (an already
>>great) screen. A winna!
>
> Taxi diagrams would be nice, though someone pointed out that fairly
> decent (but unlabeled) airport diagrams are available if you have
> CitySelect data loaded.
>
> Private airports are a big deal to some folks, not so much with me.
>
> Right now, I think
> it's a pretty good bargain, especially if you're not interested in the
> automotive navigation capabilities.
>
(copied from RAO thread)
private airports DB is a feature I'd like.

Interestingly, having flown in and out of our private grass strip a few
times, we have a very nice set of tracks on the Garmin that outline the
runway and taxiway. It appears that in zero-zero conditions, one could
taxi from the runway to my hangar door just following the tracks. Sort
of a every-man's runway/taxiway diagram. If it cools off a bit, I may
just take the hood and a safety pilot and see if it works.... remember
'dither'? May it RIP.

Re the auto feature. The auto kit (which was shipped free as part of
the initial offer) has a memory chip and DB that for all practical
purposes gives you full auto capability. Use it all the time. Fly in,
rent car, mount 396 in bean bag holder, follow voice prompts to
destination. I often take the XM attennae for hotel room music.

In article >,
T o d d P a t t i s t > wrote:
> >Ironically, this type of price fixing (terminating dealers who don't
> >adhere to the minimum sale price) is not illegal under United States
> >anti-trust law,
>
> The theory is that the mnfr can sell to whomever he wants,
> and he wants his dealers to have sufficient profit that they
> can supply other auxiliary services to keep good customer
> will.

That's one of the arguments. Another argument is that the practice is
not anti-competitive because no seller has a pricing advantage over
another. The favorable arguments are a little flimsy and short-sighted
if you ask me, but the precedent will stand until it is successfully
challenged.

In reality, the practice of minimum sale prices really protects the
margins of the manufacturer from market forces that would otherwise
drive the price (and margin) lower. It does not protect the
manufacturer from other market competition, but, in the case of the
Garmin 396/496, there really is none.




JKG

But, there is no incentive for me to buy Garmin with those crazy-a$$
prices. Call me cheap, if you will, but I can't afford $3000 for a GPS,
especially a portable! At that point, I'm going to look for other
options. The airprt directory is ok, I guess, but certainly not
something I care much about. The taxi diagrams have been available from
the government for free for a while now. And, I still carry paper with
me. I think it's something to do with batteries....hmmmm The XM
weather is nice and all, but, being a VFR-only pilot, it doesn't do much
for me.

Chris G.


Jonathan Goodish wrote:

> In reality, the practice of minimum sale prices really protects the
> margins of the manufacturer from market forces that would otherwise
> drive the price (and margin) lower. It does not protect the
> manufacturer from other market competition, but, in the case of the
> Garmin 396/496, there really is none.

> :
> : $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?

The screen is plenty big enough. If it was any bigger it wouldnt fit
properly on the yoke.

In article >,
"Aluckyguess" > wrote:

> > :
> > : $600 more -- and it's still got that same dinky screen?
>
> The screen is plenty big enough. If it was any bigger it wouldnt fit
> properly on the yoke.

They could probably make the screen taller, so that it's more square,
and that would at least be some improvement. A portrait (vertical)
orientation is better, but the last thing I want is a monstrosity on the
yoke (Lowrance 2000c, TabletPC, even the old GPSMAP 195.)



JKG

In article >,
Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> They could probably make the screen taller, so that it's more square,
> and that would at least be some improvement. A portrait (vertical)
> orientation is better, but the last thing I want is a monstrosity on the
> yoke (Lowrance 2000c, TabletPC, even the old GPSMAP 195.)

The 195 yoke mounting was nice because it hung down over the front of
the yoke. This kept the cent of mass low and did not interfer with
control operation.
If you had a yoke mounted timer built in, you couldn't use the timer,
however.
I found the RAM suction cup to be a very flexible mounting option. I
prefer to place the mount in the lower corner of the windscreen. This
places it where it will not interfer while scanning for traffic and
places it in view when scanning the instrument panel.

In article
>,
john smith > wrote:
> The 195 yoke mounting was nice because it hung down over the front of
> the yoke. This kept the cent of mass low and did not interfer with
> control operation.
> If you had a yoke mounted timer built in, you couldn't use the timer,
> however.
> I found the RAM suction cup to be a very flexible mounting option. I
> prefer to place the mount in the lower corner of the windscreen. This
> places it where it will not interfer while scanning for traffic and
> places it in view when scanning the instrument panel.

I don't know, my 396 hangs down in front of the yoke just fine
(Cherokee), and does not obstruct my DG the way the 195 did; and worse,
the buttons on the 195 were positioned at the top of the unit, which
made using it in flight somewhat awkward.

If I had an airplane where the yoke itself obstructed the GPS mount, I'd
probably consider a RAM yoke mount, or simply move the unit to a
suction-cup or other type of mount.



JKG