I drove around our airport last week, giving a tour to some folks who
are interested in making Iowa City a stop on a future "National Air
Tour"-type event, and was appalled to find...nothing.

No planes moving. One plane on the ramp, going no where. No people,
no vehicles. It was as if someone had set off a neutron bomb nearby,
leaving only the structures. Later, I strolled through the FBOs giant
maintenance hangar. Mid-afternoon, and...nothing. No movement, no
life, no mechanics -- only the shop supervisor, making busy by sorting
microfiche.

I then went to my mechanics shop. He was busy, of course...building
his Hawk replica. (He's got the upper wing on it now...he figures it'll
fly by spring.) There were a couple of customer projects in the shop,
but since they are doing most of the work themselves, his only reward
is having a fuselage that he must work around all the time.

The weather was good, very warm for the season, actually -- but
everyone apparently had Christmas shopping on their mind. There was
just no one flying, or thinking about flyling, or doing much of
anything at the airport. No money of any kind was exchanging hands on
the field...and this appears to be continuing throughout the holidays.

Later, I sat down and chatted with one of the FBO managers, and asked
him how they survived times like this? He smiled, and asked what WE
did when times were slow. (As they are right now, actually. December
has been a VERY quiet month at the inn...) I told him we remodeled
suites, replaced carpet, and basically got the facility caught up from
the year's craziness. And we watch the checkbook dwindle...

But we don't have the overhead you do, I replied. You've got trucks,
and pumps, and tools, and half a dozen mechanics, and line guys, and
desk staff, and...the list goes on and on. How do you PAY for all that
when there is ZERO income?

We both knew the answer. That's why they must charge stupidly high
rates for annual inspections, and five bucks for a quart of oil. In
the summer, when the line is hopping, they must make what they can on
those of us who fly. And even at that, they're barely breaking even
for the year, if they're lucky.

And what other options do they have? You can say that things would
pick up if they were to cut their fees, but that's simply not true when
there are so few flying. Perhaps it would help in the long run, but
the "long run" doesn't keep food on the table in the interim.

Unless and until we can revitalize GA, this inexorable trend will
continue, until there are just three of us left on the field, each
paying $175,000 per year to maintain our Cherokees.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> We both knew the answer. That's why they must charge stupidly high
> rates for annual inspections, and five bucks for a quart of oil. In
> the summer, when the line is hopping, they must make what they can on
> those of us who fly. And even at that, they're barely breaking even
> for the year, if they're lucky.

How is that different from owning an airplane? If you own one, and you
run into a spell where you don't fly much, you still pay off the loan,
do the annual, pay the tiedown...

It's nice to think that you can just get up and fly at any time for the
cost of the gas, but it ain't so. Just for jollies, over the course of
several years (say, one engine replacement), how much did your
Pathfinder cost you per hour, all costs included?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose > wrote:

> How is that different from owning an airplane?

For starters, owning a small airplane is, for many, not a for-profit
business. Expenses to own therefore are irrelevant to the point Jay was
making.

--
Peter

> For starters, owning a small airplane is, for many, not a for-profit
> business. Expenses to own therefore are irrelevant to the point Jay was
> making.

I don't think that's a significant point, especially since for many,
renting out a small airplane is a small-profit business. I think that
expenses to own are quite enlightening.

I am a member of a flying club, which is operated not-for-profit, and we
pay a rental rate that is comparable to FBOs (though for excellently
maintained aircraft). There is no getting around the fact that aviation
is expensive, and flying an airplane carries many hidden costs.

Now, if you own an airplane, you may be inclined to fly it more because
you only see the incremental costs, and this would tend to reduce cost
per hour. And I agree with Jay's point that the more people who fly
more, the less expensive it is overall. But it's two days before
Christmas, in the middle of winter. Of course it's slow! (n.b., some
years back I flew over Bethlehem on Christmas Eve).

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose > wrote:

> But it's two days before
> Christmas, in the middle of winter. Of course it's slow! (n.b., some
> years back I flew over Bethlehem on Christmas Eve).

Ah, I see your point now. I had missed that upon my first read.

--
Peter

Jay Honeck wrote:
> I drove around our airport last week, giving a tour to some folks who
> are interested in making Iowa City a stop on a future "National Air
> Tour"-type event, and was appalled to find...nothing.
>
Unfortunately, you are preaching to the choir. We did what we could
last weekend by taking a 4 day Christmas trip in which we flew 8 hours,
made landings at 6 airports in 3 states, bought fuel at 3 FBO's,
visited relatives in two states, and transported home a load of items
we had purchased over the internet. We almost drove because the
forecast didn't look great for the last two days, but we took our
chances and were rewarded with great flying all the way. GA rules for
us. Too bad that virtual reality rules for most.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

("Jose" wrote)
> But it's two days before Christmas, in the middle of winter. Of course
> it's slow! (n.b., some years back I flew over Bethlehem on Christmas
> Eve).


http://www.answers.com/topic/nota-bene
(n.b. ?) I learned this today <g>


Montablack

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:1166881872.625476.137320@
48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com:

> I drove around our airport last week, giving a tour to some folks who
> are interested in making Iowa City a stop on a future "National Air
> Tour"-type event, and was appalled to find...nothing.

Note to AOPA - Need more Jewish pilots.

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> We both knew the answer. That's why they must charge stupidly high
> rates for annual inspections, and five bucks for a quart of oil. In
> the summer, when the line is hopping, they must make what they can on
> those of us who fly. And even at that, they're barely breaking even
> for the year, if they're lucky.


1. The lawyers are running a mob-type protection racquet. You pay them,
first, for their (ever growing) cut - for protection against, well ...them!

2. All levels of (ever growing) government have got their hand(s) out, too
....or more precisely, in your pocket(s).

3. And the health care syndicate, they want their (ever growing) ....cut.


Montblack-to-basics

("Judah" wrote)
> Note to AOPA - Need more Jewish pilots.


http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/adam+sandler/the+hanukkah+song_20003925.html
Adam Sandler: Hanukkah Song #1 (lyrics)

http://www.ilovewavs.com/Holidays/Hanukkah/Hanukkah01.wav
Adam Sandler: Hanukkah Song #1 (.wav)

http://www.ilovewavs.com/Holidays/Hanukkah/Hanukkah02.wav
Adam Sandler: Hanukkah Song #2 (.wav)

http://www.ilovewavs.com/Holidays/Hanukkah/hanukkah.htm
More Hanukkah songs...

"The don't make Jews like Jesus any more." :-)

BTW, Happy B-Day JC ...and POEGWTM


Montblack-Irish
5 of 7 ...Yup, Catholic family

> But it's two days before
> Christmas, in the middle of winter. Of course it's slow! (n.b., some
> years back I flew over Bethlehem on Christmas Eve).

BTW: This took place last week -- well before Christmas. Today has
actually been fairly busy at the airport, thanks to some decent weather
and folks heading out of town.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> > We both knew the answer. That's why they must charge stupidly high
> > rates for annual inspections, and five bucks for a quart of oil. In
> > the summer, when the line is hopping, they must make what they can on
> > those of us who fly. And even at that, they're barely breaking even
> > for the year, if they're lucky.
>
> How is that different from owning an airplane? If you own one, and you
> run into a spell where you don't fly much, you still pay off the loan,
> do the annual, pay the tiedown...

"Success" in airplane ownership means that you hope not to divert too
much of your income into maintaining it. That's a far different
definition than success in the business world, which requires a return
on your investment in order to continue in operation.

Unless they are employees of the airport (common at smaller airports),
FBOs at medium-sized airports are a marginal business, at best. And
watching an Iowa FBO in December is like watching a time-lapse video of
a rose dying. You know the roots are still alive, but you sure can't
tell by looking at it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I drove around our airport last week, giving a tour to some folks who
> are interested in making Iowa City a stop on a future "National Air
> Tour"-type event, and was appalled to find...nothing.
>
> No planes moving. One plane on the ramp, going no where. No people,
> no vehicles. It was as if someone had set off a neutron bomb nearby,
> leaving only the structures.

This is a popular myth but a neutron bomb will destroy all the building just
like any atomic weapon.

------------------------------------------------
DW

> "Success" in airplane ownership means that you hope not to divert too
> much of your income into maintaining it. That's a far different
> definition than success in the business world, which requires a return
> on your investment in order to continue in operation.

They are not as different as you imagine. Diverting too much of your
income into maintaining [your own] plane eats into the return on
investment. When the return is insufficient (your one "customer"
doesn't fly enough to justify the cost), you sell the plane and your
ownership goes out of business. In the interim, owners have been known
to attempt to boost their sales by entering into partnership, thus
allowing more flying hours to carry the (same) fixed costs, but the same
basic arithmetic holds true.

It's all the same, just using different words to reflect a different POV.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I wonder how many people here are involved in ownership of an airplane
because the out-of-pocket expense is less than renting?

I certainly don't think it is less expensive to own rather than rent a
machine like our very well-maintained IFR C172N. I know I'm paying more for
the privilege of flying the same airplane all of the time when I fly and I
freely admit to sometimes going out flying just because I can do so quite
easily. It is important to me to know ALL of the other pilots who are
flying her and how they care for her.

I suppose the question for me isn't "is it cheaper to own?" but "what is the
value of owning?". For me the value is sufficient to push me over the
threshold of the ownership decision. How about you?

Cheers,
Leonard
N2870E
"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Jose > wrote:
>
>> How is that different from owning an airplane?
>
> For starters, owning a small airplane is, for many, not a for-profit
> business. Expenses to own therefore are irrelevant to the point Jay was
> making.
>
> --
> Peter

I am not, because it isn't cheaper......

I know the pilot that flew our Warrior last.

HE would have told me of ANYTHING that gave him any concern about the
aircraft.

HE would NOT abuse it, overload it, ask it to do anything it was not
designed to do.

He would have cleaned it if he got it dirty.

He would have checked it thouroughly

He would have preheated the engine if it was too cold.

EVERYTHING on the aircraft works, or it is serviced immediately.

There are NO cracks in the spinner, no duct tape on the side windows,
the carpets are not torn, the stuffing is all INSIDE the seat fabric.
(all found on rentals assigned for flight duty)

There is less than 33 hrs on the oil & filter....

There is a one third chance that the last pilot was ME!

And the other 2/3rds chance is not a chance at all....

That's why I (1/3) own....

..and I am fortunate to have two excellent partners that are just as
anal as I on matters of the use and maintenance of the aircraft as I
am..

Cheers!

Dave

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:53:29 GMT, "Leonard Ellis"
> wrote:

>I wonder how many people here are involved in ownership of an airplane
>because the out-of-pocket expense is less than renting?
>
>I certainly don't think it is less expensive to own rather than rent a
>machine like our very well-maintained IFR C172N. I know I'm paying more for
>the privilege of flying the same airplane all of the time when I fly and I
>freely admit to sometimes going out flying just because I can do so quite
>easily. It is important to me to know ALL of the other pilots who are
>flying her and how they care for her.
>
>I suppose the question for me isn't "is it cheaper to own?" but "what is the
>value of owning?". For me the value is sufficient to push me over the
>threshold of the ownership decision. How about you?
>
>Cheers,
>Leonard
>N2870E
>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>> Jose > wrote:
>>
>>> How is that different from owning an airplane?
>>
>> For starters, owning a small airplane is, for many, not a for-profit
>> business. Expenses to own therefore are irrelevant to the point Jay was
>> making.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>

("Darkwing" wrote)
> This is a popular myth but a neutron bomb will destroy all the building
> just like any atomic weapon.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081249/
The Nude Bomb (1980)


Montblack