I have a C-170 than readily and legally burns mogas and I would like to
find some plans or suggestions for building a tank, pump, and filter
system that I can mount in an old pickup or on a small trailer.

I don't need much capacity, 40 gallons would be adequate, 50 probably
overkill, as my plane's tanks only hold 37 usable.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a suitable system?

Thanks






--
Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/


Going home after a long day
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/1325102827_f322928754_b.jpg

The fleet at Summit. Mt. McKinley is about 45nm away at 20,320 msl.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/437346531_a9cb8d2482_b.jpg

The 170B at Bold near Eklutna Glacier
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/437324742_a216d7bb75.jpg

"Pete Brown" > wrote in message
...
>I have a C-170 than readily and legally burns mogas and I would like to
>find some plans or suggestions for building a tank, pump, and filter system
>that I can mount in an old pickup or on a small trailer.
>
> I don't need much capacity, 40 gallons would be adequate, 50 probably
> overkill, as my plane's tanks only hold 37 usable.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for a suitable system?
>
> Thanks


http://alexisparkinn.com/new_mighty_grape.htm

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

What do you need plans for. Go to your local farm and ranch store and
get the size tank you want. I got a 100 gallon tank that fits in the
pickup bed. Drill four holes and attach the power. Then attach the 12V
electric pump, filter and hose. Fill with fuel. I have since moved the
tank to a 4x8 trailer kit that I bought later at the same store. Don't
settle on the 50 gallon because the plane holds 37. A bigger capacity
allows you to go longer between trips to the gas station.

Pete Brown wrote:

> I have a C-170 than readily and legally burns mogas and I would like to
> find some plans or suggestions for building a tank, pump, and filter
> system that I can mount in an old pickup or on a small trailer.
>
> I don't need much capacity, 40 gallons would be adequate, 50 probably
> overkill, as my plane's tanks only hold 37 usable.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for a suitable system?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
> What do you need plans for. Go to your local farm and ranch store and get
> the size tank you want. I got a 100 gallon tank that fits in the pickup
> bed. ...

Isn't the "shelf life" of mogas much shorter than avgas? At 7 gph that 170
would take a while to burn through 100 gallons. Also, isn't there a
(probably local) fire code that regulates how much gasoline you can carry in
a private vehicle without a special permit? We tried to put a diesel tank in
at our place in Tulsa and were surprised that a 55 gallon drum was all we
could haul/store without special permits. There was also a limit as to the
number of 55 gallons drums we could have.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Jim Carter wrote:
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>What do you need plans for. Go to your local farm and ranch store and get
>>the size tank you want. I got a 100 gallon tank that fits in the pickup
>>bed. ...
>
>
> Isn't the "shelf life" of mogas much shorter than avgas?


That's what "they" say. It has not been my experience.


At 7 gph that 170
> would take a while to burn through 100 gallons. Also, isn't there a
> (probably local) fire code that regulates how much gasoline you can carry in
> a private vehicle without a special permit? We tried to put a diesel tank in
> at our place in Tulsa and were surprised that a 55 gallon drum was all we
> could haul/store without special permits. There was also a limit as to the
> number of 55 gallons drums we could have.


Much debate about this. Every farmer has at least a 100 gallon tank in
the back of their truck. Every Trade-A-Plane has a number of fuel
trailers for sale. The local USDA guys around here have a 300 gallon
gas trailer for their helicopters. They just put wheels and a tongue on
this big oval tank. I don't worry about it.

> Much debate about this. Every farmer has at least a 100 gallon tank in
> the back of their truck. Every Trade-A-Plane has a number of fuel
> trailers for sale. The local USDA guys around here have a 300 gallon
> gas trailer for their helicopters. They just put wheels and a tongue on
> this big oval tank. I don't worry about it.

Smart move. I had my tank made to hold 55 gallons, because of our
fear of crossing the laws. (Also, the original Grape was a much
smaller Nissan pick-up truck -- so I was a bit worried about
capacity.)

Now, with a full-sized Mighty Grape, I sure wish we had gone with a
bigger tank. Atlas holds 84 gallons, so we end up filling the
transfer tank pretty much every week. .
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> I have a C-170 than readily and legally burns mogas and I would like to
> find some plans or suggestions for building a tank, pump, and filter
> system that I can mount in an old pickup or on a small trailer.
>
> I don't need much capacity, 40 gallons would be adequate, 50 probably
> overkill, as my plane's tanks only hold 37 usable.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for a suitable system?

You've received some good suggestions. My further advice would be:

- Make sure it's got a professional gas filter, like ours does. (I"ve
seen some farmers' rigs that don't have filters, and cringe. Although
I've cut my filters and NEVER found so much as a trace of dirt or
grit, so maybe I'm just being paranoid?)

- Get some professional help installing it. I've got a buddy who owns
an auto repair shop, and he was a great help, coming up with rubber
shock pads to mount the tank on (for shock absorbtion and so water can
drain), drilling the mounting holes in the right places, and -- in the
case of the new Mighty Grape -- fabricating/welding the wheel wells
that had to be flattened in order to make the old tank fit properly.

- Use the heaviest duty electrical cable you can find. They make
stuff that is designed to be exposed to just about ANYTHING,
environmentally, without degrading. It's not cheap, but that's what
you need. It'll most likely be run on the frame of the vehicle, where
it is subject to all sorts of salt, sand, water, mud, etc., so don't
scrimp here.

- Run the power cable directly to your battery, and install a good-
quality in-line fuse. You want to be able to use the pump without the
vehicle running.

- You can save yourself some money by skipping the gas gauge. I added
it because I had a buddy who wanted to buy gas from me, and I needed
to know how much he used.

It's a truly worthwhile project that has many benefits. You would not
believe how many times I've used the Grape for applications other than
avaition. Being able to fill our mowers/snow blowers/leaf blowers/
chain saws from the back of the truck is just a terrific, time-saving
convenience.

I've pumped nearly 9,000 gallons of car gas through Atlas now, without
a burp. Do the math, and you can see that I've paid for a LOT of
flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Jim Carter wrote:
>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>What do you need plans for. Go to your local farm and ranch store and
>>>get the size tank you want. I got a 100 gallon tank that fits in the
>>>pickup bed. ...
>>
>>
>> Isn't the "shelf life" of mogas much shorter than avgas?
>
>
> That's what "they" say. It has not been my experience.
>
>
> At 7 gph that 170
>> would take a while to burn through 100 gallons. Also, isn't there a
>> (probably local) fire code that regulates how much gasoline you can carry
>> in a private vehicle without a special permit? We tried to put a diesel
>> tank in at our place in Tulsa and were surprised that a 55 gallon drum
>> was all we could haul/store without special permits. There was also a
>> limit as to the number of 55 gallons drums we could have.
>
>
> Much debate about this. Every farmer has at least a 100 gallon tank in
> the back of their truck. Every Trade-A-Plane has a number of fuel
> trailers for sale. The local USDA guys around here have a 300 gallon gas
> trailer for their helicopters. They just put wheels and a tongue on this
> big oval tank. I don't worry about it.

With the overabundance of participants in the legal profession, wouldn't you
worry about defending yourself in a suit where even if the accident wasn't
your fault, your violation of law made the results much worse? I'm thinking
about a traffic accident involving a spill (very expensive to clean up) or a
fire (very expensive...period) resulting from the fuel being tankered.

I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the same
in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was anywhere
near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive already to
have to shell out an uninsured settlement.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Jim Carter wrote:

>
> With the overabundance of participants in the legal profession, wouldn't you
> worry about defending yourself in a suit where even if the accident wasn't
> your fault, your violation of law made the results much worse? I'm thinking
> about a traffic accident involving a spill (very expensive to clean up) or a
> fire (very expensive...period) resulting from the fuel being tankered.
>
> I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the same
> in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was anywhere
> near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive already to
> have to shell out an uninsured settlement.
>


I'm insured. As my brother, who works for State Farm, is fond of
saying, "We insure stupidity."

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Jim Carter wrote:
>
>>
>> With the overabundance of participants in the legal profession, wouldn't
>> you worry about defending yourself in a suit where even if the accident
>> wasn't your fault, your violation of law made the results much worse? I'm
>> thinking about a traffic accident involving a spill (very expensive to
>> clean up) or a fire (very expensive...period) resulting from the fuel
>> being tankered.
>>
>> I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the
>> same in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was
>> anywhere near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive
>> already to have to shell out an uninsured settlement.
>>
>
>
> I'm insured. As my brother, who works for State Farm, is fond of saying,
> "We insure stupidity."

Does your insurance cover your acts if they are illegal? Most insurance
carriers will not honor coverage if you were participating in an illegal
activity. Hauling more fuel than allowed by law would certainly be
questionable wouldn't it?


--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

On Dec 7, 7:27 am, "Jim Carter" > wrote:
> "Newps" > wrote in message
>
> . ..
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jim Carter wrote:
>
> >> With the overabundance of participants in the legal profession, wouldn't
> >> you worry about defending yourself in a suit where even if the accident
> >> wasn't your fault, your violation of law made the results much worse? I'm
> >> thinking about a traffic accident involving a spill (very expensive to
> >> clean up) or a fire (very expensive...period) resulting from the fuel
> >> being tankered.
>
> >> I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the
> >> same in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was
> >> anywhere near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive
> >> already to have to shell out an uninsured settlement.
>
> > I'm insured. As my brother, who works for State Farm, is fond of saying,
> > "We insure stupidity."
>
> Does your insurance cover your acts if they are illegal? Most insurance
> carriers will not honor coverage if you were participating in an illegal
> activity. Hauling more fuel than allowed by law would certainly be
> questionable wouldn't it?
>
> --
> Jim Carter
> Rogers, Arkansas

I would think they don't cover "criminal" acts. If you wrecked your
car speeding, however, you would be covered even though it's illegal
since it's not criminal.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 05:41:14 -0800 (PST), 150flivver >
wrote:

> On Dec 7, 7:27 am, "Jim Carter" > wrote:

> > > I'm insured. As my brother, who works for State Farm, is fond of saying,
> > > "We insure stupidity."
> >
> > Does your insurance cover your acts if they are illegal? Most insurance
> > carriers will not honor coverage if you were participating in an illegal
> > activity. Hauling more fuel than allowed by law would certainly be
> > questionable wouldn't it?
>
> I would think they don't cover "criminal" acts. If you wrecked your
> car speeding, however, you would be covered even though it's illegal
> since it's not criminal.

Here in Washington state, a guy got mad at his girlfriend and took off in his
car to ram her car. As he was maneuvering to hit her, he struck the car of a
third party, damaging it and injuring the driver. The insurance company of the
third party refused to pay for the car damage and injuries suffered by their
client, as it wasn't an "accident."

The decision was eventually reversed after pressure from the state insurance
commission.

Ron Wanttaja

Jim Carter wrote:

>
> Does your insurance cover your acts if they are illegal?

Yes.


Most insurance
> carriers will not honor coverage if you were participating in an illegal
> activity.

When they say that hauling a few gallons over some limit is not what
they mean.




Hauling more fuel than allowed by law would certainly be
> questionable wouldn't it?

Nope.

Insurance companies cover claims for just about everything.
DWI is a criminal act and the drivers are covered.
Show in writing that driving with extra fuel is an exemption and it
should not be covered, otherwise it is covered.
It's all in the wording.

150flivver wrote:
> On Dec 7, 7:27 am, "Jim Carter" > wrote:
>> "Newps" > wrote in message
>>
>> . ..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jim Carter wrote:
>>>> With the overabundance of participants in the legal profession, wouldn't
>>>> you worry about defending yourself in a suit where even if the accident
>>>> wasn't your fault, your violation of law made the results much worse? I'm
>>>> thinking about a traffic accident involving a spill (very expensive to
>>>> clean up) or a fire (very expensive...period) resulting from the fuel
>>>> being tankered.
>>>> I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the
>>>> same in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was
>>>> anywhere near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive
>>>> already to have to shell out an uninsured settlement.
>>> I'm insured. As my brother, who works for State Farm, is fond of saying,
>>> "We insure stupidity."
>> Does your insurance cover your acts if they are illegal? Most insurance
>> carriers will not honor coverage if you were participating in an illegal
>> activity. Hauling more fuel than allowed by law would certainly be
>> questionable wouldn't it?
>>
>> --
>> Jim Carter
>> Rogers, Arkansas
>
> I would think they don't cover "criminal" acts. If you wrecked your
> car speeding, however, you would be covered even though it's illegal
> since it's not criminal.

>
> I'm not saying I disagree with your premise and I would probably do the same
> in a rural area, but I'd sure be concerned with the laws if I was anywhere
> near a metropolitan area. This flying hobby is way too expensive already to
> have to shell out an uninsured settlement.
>
This is easily handled in a metropolitan area. It ain't gonna happen.

Every busy city has diluted their auto gas with expensive, polluting,
non sustainable, energy negative ethanol. While politically expedient,
this crap is verboten in airplane applications. So, in the areas where
you most likely would have a close encounter of the explosive kind, you
cannot use the fuel.

Just another little "service" from the federal government that winds up
keeping you all nice and safe...

Good Luck,
Mike

> This is easily handled in a metropolitan area. It ain't gonna happen.

Actually, a fuel truck is still useful, even if you don't burn car gas
in your plane.

The guy who used to own Atlas now flies a fire-breathing Comanche
400. Ain't using mogas in THAT monster!

I was surprised to see him fueling his plane from his fuel truck the
other day, and asked him what he was doing. Turns out he fills his
fuel truck from the cheap(er) self-serve avgas pump, and then self-
fuels at his hangar. This gets him some of the convenience of having
the fuel truck come to his hangar (God, remember those days?) while
still saving 25 cents per gallon.

Speaking of fueling, just nine years ago we would get back from a
flight and flip a red flap up on our hangar door if we wanted fuel.
The line guys would drive the fuel truck up and down the hangar rows a
couple of times each day, looking for red flaps, and fuel any plane
that needed it.

Imagine -- they would open the hangar door, fuel the plane, close the
hangar door, and bill you at the end of the month -- and it cost all
of two bucks a gallon... (Which, at the time, we bitched about!)

That was two FBOs ago. Those days are loooooong gone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> This is easily handled in a metropolitan area. It ain't gonna happen.
>>
>
>
> Imagine -- they would open the hangar door, fuel the plane, close the
> hangar door, and bill you at the end of the month -- and it cost all
> of two bucks a gallon... (Which, at the time, we bitched about!)
>
> That was two FBOs ago. Those days are loooooong gone.
>
Hey Jay,

That is what we get at Fitchburg, Ma. (KFIT). Of course it is nearly
$5/gal, but they will fuel your plane. There are maybe 150 planes on the
field, maybe a little less. I guess I should be appreciative. Xmas is
coming so I guess a little payola for the line men won't hurt.

KC

Mike Spera > wrote:
>
> Every busy city has diluted their auto gas with expensive, polluting,
> non sustainable, energy negative ethanol.

Hmmm. What constitutes a busy city?

I never had problems finding ethanol free auto gas in the greater
Portland, OR area. Likewise, now that I've moved to Boise, I can
still get it. Maybe these arn't busy cities to you? They are busy
enough for me.

Dunno how long it will stay that way...

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

> I never had problems finding ethanol free auto gas in the greater
> Portland, OR area. Likewise, now that I've moved to Boise, I can
> still get it. Maybe these arn't busy cities to you? They are busy
> enough for me.
>
> Dunno how long it will stay that way...
>
> --
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Boise, ID

I wish there was a good source of information on where and when
ethanol is added to auto gas. I have searched for same and drawn a
blank. I have also tested a few samples of the gas I normally buy and
have yet to detect any ethanol. I haven't sprung for the STC yet,
but it looks better and better every time the price of avgas goes up.

David Johnson

> That is what we get at Fitchburg, Ma. (KFIT). Of course it is nearly
> $5/gal, but they will fuel your plane.

Oh, Iowa City still has a fuel truck that will come to your hangar --
but it takes an act of Congress to get it done, and you pay through
the nose.

What's "long gone" are the days when our FBO actually *looked* for
hangars that had the "Need Fuel" flapper up on their door. It sure
was a nice service.

What's goofy is that the line guys now just sit around, getting paid
exactly the same (or more) as when they went out looking for
business. I suppose the wear and tear on (and gas for) the fuel
truck was what they were trying to save -- but it seems like the kind
of service that if publicized might entice more fuel sales, especially
with pilot/owners getting up in age. (I see these old geezers trying
to tug their Bonanzas up to the self-serve pump, and cringe...)

Of course, filling a Cherokee and making 30 bucks is pretty paltry
compared to filling a Gulfstream and making $400 -- so you *know*
where their priorities are. Can't really blame them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"