1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
medical certificate.

So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
instructor certificate?

2) On sectional charts, the tops of class D and class C airspace is
listed as either [45] or [-45], meaning "up to and including 4,500ft",
and "up to but not including 4,500ft" respectively. I'm wondering,
whats the point of distinguishing between the tow? I assume one means
basically "from the ground to 4,500ft", while the other one means
"from the ground to 4,499ft". Whats the point?

3)Typically speaking, how do military airfields take to civilian
traffic landing there? There are a few Navy and Air Force airfields in
my area that I think would be pretty cool to do a touch and go at.
Theres this one thats about 50 or so miles south of me called Lemoore
which doesn't seem to be very busy at all. Heck, I think the tower
even closes on weekends.

They all say "transient traffic prohibited unless prior permission" in
thr AFD, but how strict do they hold to that? I guess it's different
from one place to the next, but generally speaking, if I were to call
them up, will they laugh at my face? Will they be like "oh yeah sure,
just call tower up before entering the class delta"? This goes for
private airstrips too.

I recently hit my goal of visiting every public use airport within a
100 mile radius of my home airport. Now I'll get started on the
private use ones. 8)

"buttman" > wrote in message
...
> 1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
> is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
> the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
> can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
> medical certificate.
>
> So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
> FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
> reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
> accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
> instructor certificate?

I would take that to mean that your flight instructor certificate is no
longer valid if you forfeit your commercial :)

Without a current medical certificate (at least third-class) you can't
instruct a pilot that does not have a current medical certificate, current
biennial and at least a private certificate (I am not up on the sport guys
so I may be wrong on the last). If you are a multi-engine instructor you
can not instruct unless the student already has the multi and is current.

--
*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

Once you have the CFI, you can instruct and get paid for instructing w/o a
current medical certificate. But your pilot certificate must be valid for
the CFI to be valid.
If your CP is revoked you can't exercise the CFI. The medical requirement
is a different issue.

Military airfields have security rules, particularly since 9/11. Some joint
use airports allow civilian traffic to ramps that are not military ramps.
Other military air fields may allow low approaches but not landings.

Can the base ops/ commander and get the procedures for each pace, it can and
does vary between USAF, Army, Navy and you probably will have to have
insurance waivers.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300

--
Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Happy Holidays
Bah Humbug
What Ever
"buttman" > wrote in message
...
| 1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
| is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
| the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
| can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
| medical certificate.
|
| So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
| FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
| reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
| accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
| instructor certificate?
|
| 2) On sectional charts, the tops of class D and class C airspace is
| listed as either [45] or [-45], meaning "up to and including 4,500ft",
| and "up to but not including 4,500ft" respectively. I'm wondering,
| whats the point of distinguishing between the tow? I assume one means
| basically "from the ground to 4,500ft", while the other one means
| "from the ground to 4,499ft". Whats the point?
|
| 3)Typically speaking, how do military airfields take to civilian
| traffic landing there? There are a few Navy and Air Force airfields in
| my area that I think would be pretty cool to do a touch and go at.
| Theres this one thats about 50 or so miles south of me called Lemoore
| which doesn't seem to be very busy at all. Heck, I think the tower
| even closes on weekends.
|
| They all say "transient traffic prohibited unless prior permission" in
| thr AFD, but how strict do they hold to that? I guess it's different
| from one place to the next, but generally speaking, if I were to call
| them up, will they laugh at my face? Will they be like "oh yeah sure,
| just call tower up before entering the class delta"? This goes for
| private airstrips too.
|
| I recently hit my goal of visiting every public use airport within a
| 100 mile radius of my home airport. Now I'll get started on the
| private use ones. 8)

Concerning landing at Military Airfields: Civilian traffic is
generally not welcome - but it costs nothing to ask. Check it out
first - Some may make exceptions for events open to the public. Expect
a different answer from each one you inquire of. I once (while in the
military) flew to another installation with a military pilot in a
military helicopter. The trip was entirely discretionary on his part,
and he invited me along. Immediately on landing he was called on the
carpet by the base commander - and chewed out for not giving them
prior notice of his intentions.

David Johnson

buttman wrote:
>
> 2) On sectional charts, the tops of class D and class C airspace is
> listed as either [45] or [-45], meaning "up to and including 4,500ft",
> and "up to but not including 4,500ft" respectively. I'm wondering,
> whats the point of distinguishing between the tow? I assume one means
> basically "from the ground to 4,500ft", while the other one means
> "from the ground to 4,499ft". Whats the point?
>

The reason for having the distinction is because it is
most likely due to the fact that the D or C airspace is
underlying class B (or some other) airspace which is in
effect exactly at 4,500. its easier to say -45 than 4499.9

You can instruct without having a valid medical IF you
are not acting as PIC or required crew. I'm trying to
think if that's even possible in a typical small airplane
scenario. But you always must have a valid Commercial
license for the CFI to be valid. ATP can give instruction
as well for type ratings.

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:10:48 GMT, kontiki > wrote:

> You can instruct without having a valid medical IF you
> are not acting as PIC or required crew.

The instructor is normally neither PIC nor required crew for a Biennial Flight
Review. I bought a Stinson at one point, and the insurance company refused to
insure me in it for a combination BFR/checkout since I hadn't make the three
landings in the last 90 days and thus couldn't carry a passenger.

On the flip side, my BFR instructors now must log as PIC, since I'm operating as
a Sport Pilot and take my BFRs in planes that don't qualify as LSAs.

Ron Wanttaja

My sister learned to fly in Ohio a number of years ago. While she was
training they had an older
deaf woman also begin flight lessons. The small FBO had no special
expertise to instruct the deaf, but managed
to improvise with post-it notes on the dash. During her long cross country
she became lost and, following sensible
procedure, navigated to an airfield that she could see to get her bearings.
Not realizing the green/white/white beacon
was the marker for a military field she was very alarmed when after she
landed a jeep pulled up to the airplane -- now this was a very dear, older
lady. So she put the spurs to the little 150, raced back out to the runway
and took off.
Apparently it was the Rickenbacker airbase. She found her way back to
Green County and franticly
relayed the story with handwritten notes and charades. As the story became
clear her instructor gulped and called up
to the base.

As it was told, the base commander kept emphasizing that anyone could
certainly use the airfield in an emergency and that a disoriented student
pilot would have been exercising good judgment to do so. But he said, they
really weren't
expecting her to take off again so suddenly! In those days, this was the
kind of thing that could be settled with an
understanding phone call and I am told no more was made of it. I believe
she earned her pilots license.

Volk field in Wisconsin used to host a fly-in day, they did a nice job of
it -- all to educate you not to fly thru the
MOAs when they were active.

Todd

"buttman" > wrote in message
...
> 3)Typically speaking, how do military airfields take to civilian
> traffic landing there?

On Dec 8, 7:47 pm, buttman > wrote:
> 1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
> is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
> the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
> can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
> medical certificate.
>
> So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
> FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
> reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
> accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
> instructor certificate?

The reason for this is commercial pilots are tested at a higher flight
standards, and the FAA wanted to apply the same flight standards for
flight instructors as well. When you hold a commercial cerificate, you
are expected to fly to commercial standards throughout your flying
career, not just on the checkride. On a flight review, for example,
you will have to satisfly the commercial PTS. If you forfeit your
commercial pilot certificate, voluntarily or by legal action, you are
no longer obliged to maintain commercial standards, and hence you
won't meet the original intent of the regulation. In short, a
commercial certificate is required not just for your FI checkride, but
for all flight instruction activity. You will not be able to renew
your instructor certificate every two years either.

>
> 2) On sectional charts, the tops of class D and class C airspace is
> listed as either [45] or [-45], meaning "up to and including 4,500ft",
> and "up to but not including 4,500ft" respectively. I'm wondering,
> whats the point of distinguishing between the tow? I assume one means
> basically "from the ground to 4,500ft", while the other one means
> "from the ground to 4,499ft". Whats the point?

I suspect this is because of chart printing or digital cartographic
issues. Once you have defined >= 4500 as class B, then you better
define < 4500 as class D, or vice versa. In practice this has no
relevance. If you are that close to the boundary, you better be
talking to the more restrictive airspace controller.



>
> 3)Typically speaking, how do military airfields take to civilian
> traffic landing there? There are a few Navy and Air Force airfields in
> my area that I think would be pretty cool to do a touch and go at.
> Theres this one thats about 50 or so miles south of me called Lemoore
> which doesn't seem to be very busy at all. Heck, I think the tower
> even closes on weekends.
>
> They all say "transient traffic prohibited unless prior permission" in
> thr AFD, but how strict do they hold to that? I guess it's different
> from one place to the next, but generally speaking, if I were to call
> them up, will they laugh at my face? Will they be like "oh yeah sure,
> just call tower up before entering the class delta"? This goes for
> private airstrips too.
>
> I recently hit my goal of visiting every public use airport within a
> 100 mile radius of my home airport. Now I'll get started on the
> private use ones. 8)

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 00:40:42 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>The instructor is normally neither PIC nor required crew for a Biennial Flight
>Review.

Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
(usually the CFI) is a required crew member.

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.

Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
persons to be certificated?

"Maxwell" > wrote in :

>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>
> Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
> persons to be certificated?


As an instructor? No. Just qualified in category and class.


Bertie

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:18:36 -0600, "Maxwell" >
wrote:

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>
>Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
>persons to be certificated?

91.109(b)(1).

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:18:36 -0600, "Maxwell" >
wrote:

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>
>Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
>persons to be certificated?
>

Think of it this way. If the PIC is flying blind in VMC, how can he
comply with the see-and-avoid regulations? If the safety pilot is not
does not hold an airmans certificate, how can he be expected to comply
with the see-and-avoid regulations? How would you feel about sharing
the skies with non-certificated aircraft operators?


http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=bb38237cea101dfac268bdbc38f22a8b&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.10.2.4.5
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free
balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that
aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument
flight instruction may be given in a single-engine airplane
equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel in
place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons when—

(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted
safely; and

(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private
pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side
of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately
supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and

(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft
is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However,
simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single-engine
airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control
wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and
ailerons, when—

(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be
conducted safely; and

(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private
pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft that is being used for
a flight test for an airline transport pilot certificate or a class
or type rating on that certificate, or for a part 121 proficiency
flight test, unless the pilot seated at the controls, other than
the pilot being checked, is fully qualified to act as pilot in
command of the aircraft.

"Maxwell" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>
> Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
> persons to be certificated?
>
>

Goodness, the classic R.A.x response. Ask a simple, almost yes or no
question, get three different answers. Thanks guys, I have no doubt you are
all right.

I was actually navigating around FAA.gov last night in order to get
answers to questions of my own however on my CFI certificate in reads
"not valid without certificate no. xxxxxxxx", which is my ATP. To
excericse at least the commercial privelages one would need to
maintain at least a class II medical. Am I reading this correctly?

Bush

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:47:46 -0800 (PST), buttman >
wrote:

>1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
>is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
>the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
>can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
>medical certificate.
>
>So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
>FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
>reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
>accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
>instructor certificate?
>
>2) On sectional charts, the tops of class D and class C airspace is
>listed as either [45] or [-45], meaning "up to and including 4,500ft",
>and "up to but not including 4,500ft" respectively. I'm wondering,
>whats the point of distinguishing between the tow? I assume one means
>basically "from the ground to 4,500ft", while the other one means
>"from the ground to 4,499ft". Whats the point?
>
>3)Typically speaking, how do military airfields take to civilian
>traffic landing there? There are a few Navy and Air Force airfields in
>my area that I think would be pretty cool to do a touch and go at.
>Theres this one thats about 50 or so miles south of me called Lemoore
>which doesn't seem to be very busy at all. Heck, I think the tower
>even closes on weekends.
>
>They all say "transient traffic prohibited unless prior permission" in
>thr AFD, but how strict do they hold to that? I guess it's different
>from one place to the next, but generally speaking, if I were to call
>them up, will they laugh at my face? Will they be like "oh yeah sure,
>just call tower up before entering the class delta"? This goes for
>private airstrips too.
>
>I recently hit my goal of visiting every public use airport within a
>100 mile radius of my home airport. Now I'll get started on the
>private use ones. 8)

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:30:23 -0600, "Maxwell" >
wrote:

>
>"Maxwell" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>>
>> Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
>> persons to be certificated?
>>
>>
>
>Goodness, the classic R.A.x response. Ask a simple, almost yes or no
>question, get three different answers. Thanks guys, I have no doubt you are
>all right.

We all referenced the rule contained in 91.109, where's the
disccrepency in the answer?

On Dec 9, 5:39 pm, Bush > wrote:
> I was actually navigating around FAA.gov last night in order to get
> answers to questions of my own however on my CFI certificate in reads
> "not valid without certificate no. xxxxxxxx", which is my ATP. To
> excericse at least the commercial privelages one would need to
> maintain at least a class II medical. Am I reading this correctly?
>
> Bush
>

When flying as a CFI, you are exercising the priviledges of your CFI
certificate. A commercial certificate is required to be in your
possession, but that does not mean you are using that certificate for
your operation. At least that is my understanding.

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:30:23 -0600, "Maxwell" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Maxwell" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>>>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>>>
>>> Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
>>> persons to be certificated?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Goodness, the classic R.A.x response. Ask a simple, almost yes or no
>>question, get three different answers. Thanks guys, I have no doubt you
>>are
>>all right.
>
> We all referenced the rule contained in 91.109, where's the
> disccrepency in the answer?

No discrepancies, you are all correct. I was noting how much variation there
was in each answer, yet they were all exactly correct.

You gave only a number, and basically said go look it up.

Bertie anwsered yes, and included catagory and type.

And Lary wrote a justfication for the reg, posted a link, and the content of
the reg for archival purposes.

Not at all trying to roast anyone, just found a litte humor in three fact
answers, all exactly correct, but very different.

kontiki > writes:
> You can instruct without having a valid medical IF you
> are not acting as PIC or required crew. I'm trying to
> think if that's even possible in a typical small airplane
> scenario.

Well, I can give you one such scenario: I am going for my mountain
checkout at the local flying club sometime in the next few weeks
(whenever the weather cooperates). When I fly with my instructor, I
presume I will be PIC, and the instructor is not required crew -- he
is merely helping me learn some skills I did not previously have. I
suspect he does not require a medical to do this (although he does
actually have a medical, so this is moot).

Chris

On Dec 10, 12:00 am, Christopher Brian Colohan >
wrote:
> kontiki > writes:
> > You can instruct without having a valid medical IF you
> > are not acting as PIC or required crew. I'm trying to
> > think if that's even possible in a typical small airplane
> > scenario.
>
> Well, I can give you one such scenario: I am going for my mountain
> checkout at the local flying club sometime in the next few weeks
> (whenever the weather cooperates). When I fly with my instructor, I
> presume I will be PIC, and the instructor is not required crew -- he
> is merely helping me learn some skills I did not previously have. I
> suspect he does not require a medical to do this (although he does
> actually have a medical, so this is moot).
>
> Chris

He wouldn't even need a CFI certificate to do this, as "mountain
checkout" is not a signoff mentioned in the FARs as needing to be done
by a CFI.

If you are looking for a mountain checkout or mountain flying help I
wouldn't necessarily look for an instructor. Look for the people who
fly in the mountains in the kinds of airplanes you want to fly. Most of
the time these people are not CFI's, although there are some very good
mountain flying CFI's.



>
>
> He wouldn't even need a CFI certificate to do this, as "mountain
> checkout" is not a signoff mentioned in the FARs as needing to be done
> by a CFI.

Newps > writes:
> If you are looking for a mountain checkout or mountain flying help I
> wouldn't necessarily look for an instructor. Look for the people who
> fly in the mountains in the kinds of airplanes you want to fly. Most
> of the time these people are not CFI's, although there are some very
> good mountain flying CFI's.

Thanks for the tip! I actually have quite an excellent instructor (I
have worked with him a fair bit before) who teaches primarily in the
Citabria (my fun plane of choice) and does lots of mountain
instruction around here (SF Bay Area). Also, I have to get
instruction from one of my club's instructors if I am going to get a
signoff from the club to land anywhere in the mountains.

The main reason I want this instruction is to fly to some of the
airports in the Sierras which are not renowned for their difficulty
level, but are high enough to require a signoff (according to my
club's rules). These include South Lake Tahoe, Mariposa Yosemite, and
Truckee-Tahoe. I would certainly seek much more extensive instruction
before trying to fly into smaller or backcountry landing strips.

Chris

Peter Clark wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:18:36 -0600, "Maxwell" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Of course, in the event of simulated IMC (hood work) the safety pilot
>>> (usually the CFI) is a required crew member.
>> Granted a safety pilot is often a CFI, but do the FARs even require this
>> persons to be certificated?
>
> 91.109(b)(1).


I think the point was that BFR's often involve at least some brief
amount of hood work, in which case the instructor doing the BFR would
need to also be the safety pilot.

> I think the point was that BFR's often involve at least some brief
> amount of hood work, in which case the instructor doing the BFR would
> need to also be the safety pilot.

.... not if there were a third person who could (and did) act as safety pilot during that time.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On 2007-12-09 14:39:14 -0800, Bush > said:

> I was actually navigating around FAA.gov last night in order to get
> answers to questions of my own however on my CFI certificate in reads
> "not valid without certificate no. xxxxxxxx", which is my ATP. To
> excericse at least the commercial privelages one would need to
> maintain at least a class II medical. Am I reading this correctly?

No. The FARs provide a specific exception for flight instructors. You
only need a third class medical and only then if you are acting as PIC
or are a required crewmember. You do not lose your commercial
certificate if you lose your medical. That is why they are separate
pieces of paper.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-12-08 18:23:04 -0800, "Allen" > said:

>
> "buttman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 1) I've always been under the impression that a commercial certificate
>> is required to get the instructor certificate, but once you have it,
>> the commercial license is not needed anymore. This explains why you
>> can still get paid to instruct and sign students off without a valid
>> medical certificate.
>>
>> So if you were to forfeit your commercial pilots license, of if the
>> FAA were to revoke it, you could still sign endorsements and do flight
>> reviews. Is this correct? If so, whats the point of the words "Must be
>> accompanied by pilot certificate #XXXXXXX" on the back of the
>> instructor certificate?
>
> I would take that to mean that your flight instructor certificate is no
> longer valid if you forfeit your commercial :)
>
> Without a current medical certificate (at least third-class) you can't
> instruct a pilot that does not have a current medical certificate, current
> biennial and at least a private certificate (I am not up on the sport guys
> so I may be wrong on the last). If you are a multi-engine instructor you
> can not instruct unless the student already has the multi and is current.

Tough to do instrument training as well, since you must act as safety
pilot while giving instrument instruction. You are basically limited to
flight reviews and those portions of other ratings where you are not a
required crew member.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
> You do not lose your commercial
> certificate if you lose your medical.

You also don't even need a second to get a commercial anymore.
Anybody with a third can get any pilot certificate or rating.

Ron Natalie wrote:
> C J Campbell wrote:
>> You do not lose your commercial certificate if you lose your medical.
>
> You also don't even need a second to get a commercial anymore.
> Anybody with a third can get any pilot certificate or rating.

When did they change that?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:16:10 -0600, Gig601XLBuilder
> wrote:

>Ron Natalie wrote:
>> C J Campbell wrote:
>>> You do not lose your commercial certificate if you lose your medical.
>>
>> You also don't even need a second to get a commercial anymore.
>> Anybody with a third can get any pilot certificate or rating.
>
>When did they change that?

Not sure but I recall it for a bit. Basically they let you take the
ride for the certificate, but you can't exercise any of the privs
without the appropriate medical.