Seeking comment on the Dona Ana County Airport at Santa Teresa (5T6), Santa
Teresa, NM (across the river from El Paso, TX). Looking to head down there
on Saturday for a horse race (my friend's dad has a horse in the race at
Sunland Park). Any particular comments on the airport or area will be
appreciated! This includes any experience indicating that El Paso Int'l
(ELP) is a "much better" choice, if that's the case.

Three specific questions I've come up with:
1) I've never flown this close to a national border under VFR or in GA;
anything I need to know? If I somehow manage to inadvertently cross it, are
there any negative consequences? Put another way: what's involved w/
crossing an int'l border under VFR?

2) My best route has me "shooting the gap" between R-5103B/C & R-5107A/D.
Just south of Alamogordo-White Sands Regional (ALM) and the Boles VOR/DME
(BWS), in the north part of the gap, there is a patch of (evidently)
controlled airspace, from 500 AGL to 12,000' MSL. Whazzat?? Some sort of
TRSA-like service from Holloman AFB, I'm guessing? Is it mandatory or
voluntary? I don't have my hands on the actual sectional yet, I'm looking at
it on SkyVector.com, so I apologize if there's something about this in the
legend--I've looked but I don't see it....

3) I've excerpted the ODP for 5T6 below; it contains some phrasing I'm
unfamiliar with: "for climb in visual conditions: cross Dona Ana County at
Santa Teresa Airport at or above 6800 before proceeding on course." What
exactly does that mean? I'm guessing "circle as required overhead the field
until reaching 6,800', then on course"; as I say, though, I'm unfamiliar w/
that wording, and I definitely think following ODPs is a Very Good Idea....

Thanks for any answers to the above, or any general info! Doug

Full text of ODP:
SANTA TERESA, NM

DONA ANA COUNTY AT SANTA TERESA

TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 10, std. with a min. climb

of 419' per NM to 8400, or 2800-3 for climb in visual

conditions. Rwy 28, std. with a min. climb of 358' per

NM to 8400, or 2800-3 for climb in visual conditions.

DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwys 10, 28, for climb in

visual conditions: cross Dona Ana County at Santa

Teresa Airport at or above 6800 before proceeding on

course.


--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

I fly into the Douglas airport on a regular basis here in Southern Arizona.
The south end of the runway is so close to the border fence that the pattern
passes into Mexico on that end. We don't take it into consideration when we
fly the pattern and the FBO says the feds don't get worked up about it.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel


"Douglas Paterson" > wrote in message
. ..
> Seeking comment on the Dona Ana County Airport at Santa Teresa (5T6),
> Santa Teresa, NM (across the river from El Paso, TX). Looking to head down
> there on Saturday for a horse race (my friend's dad has a horse in the
> race at Sunland Park). Any particular comments on the airport or area will
> be appreciated! This includes any experience indicating that El Paso Int'l
> (ELP) is a "much better" choice, if that's the case.
>
> Three specific questions I've come up with:
> 1) I've never flown this close to a national border under VFR or in GA;
> anything I need to know? If I somehow manage to inadvertently cross it,
> are there any negative consequences? Put another way: what's involved w/
> crossing an int'l border under VFR?
>
> 2) My best route has me "shooting the gap" between R-5103B/C & R-5107A/D.
> Just south of Alamogordo-White Sands Regional (ALM) and the Boles VOR/DME
> (BWS), in the north part of the gap, there is a patch of (evidently)
> controlled airspace, from 500 AGL to 12,000' MSL. Whazzat?? Some sort of
> TRSA-like service from Holloman AFB, I'm guessing? Is it mandatory or
> voluntary? I don't have my hands on the actual sectional yet, I'm looking
> at it on SkyVector.com, so I apologize if there's something about this in
> the legend--I've looked but I don't see it....
>
> 3) I've excerpted the ODP for 5T6 below; it contains some phrasing I'm
> unfamiliar with: "for climb in visual conditions: cross Dona Ana County at
> Santa Teresa Airport at or above 6800 before proceeding on course." What
> exactly does that mean? I'm guessing "circle as required overhead the
> field until reaching 6,800', then on course"; as I say, though, I'm
> unfamiliar w/ that wording, and I definitely think following ODPs is a
> Very Good Idea....
>
> Thanks for any answers to the above, or any general info! Doug
>
> Full text of ODP:
> SANTA TERESA, NM
>
> DONA ANA COUNTY AT SANTA TERESA
>
> TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 10, std. with a min. climb
>
> of 419' per NM to 8400, or 2800-3 for climb in visual
>
> conditions. Rwy 28, std. with a min. climb of 358' per
>
> NM to 8400, or 2800-3 for climb in visual conditions.
>
> DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwys 10, 28, for climb in
>
> visual conditions: cross Dona Ana County at Santa
>
> Teresa Airport at or above 6800 before proceeding on
>
> course.
>
>
> --
> Doug
> "Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring,
> "Twilight Zone"
> (my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate
> change to contact me)
>
>
>

"Marc J. Zeitlin" > wrote in message
...

> Not unless you fly 747 or SR-71 sized traffic patterns.

Heh, some days... ;) Seriously, though, it's not while in the pattern I
was talking about, but any "local sightseeing" I end up doing. Unlikely,
but I like to know the lay of the land....


>
>> .... Whazzat?? Some sort of TRSA-like service from Holloman AFB, I'm
>> guessing?
>
> That would be my interpretation as well. Black is TRSA.
>

Actually, I was able to answer my own question today when I got my hands on
an Albuquerque sectional at lunch. The answer was in the margin of the
chart on a different panel. It's a floor/ceiling indication for MTR(s)
(there are a couple of IRs running through that spot)--which is not at ALL
obvious in this particular case, since it only spans the 2 - 5 nm wide gap
between the restricted airspaces. Looking at other examples, it's easier to
figure out when it runs along the route (and the legend makes it clear in
any case). Apparently, there's a new symbology in use for "some" MTRs (not
all the MTRs on that chart had the indication, and some sectionals (e.g.,
the current Denver one) don't even have the legend, let alone use the
symbols.... I learned something today!


> So, the moral of the story is, if you're going to run drugs into the USA
> from Mexico

I'll pass, thanks--but it's a good HYPOTHETICAL story.... ;)

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

If you do try the 400' flight in from Mexico, it better be when they have
the aerostat radar balloons at Ft Huachuca and Columbus out of the air for
maintenance or to avoid storms. At other times the aerostats are up on
their cables looking down at the airspace to catch any low level border
crossers.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel


"Marc J. Zeitlin" > wrote in message
...
> Douglas Paterson wrote:
>
>> 1) I've never flown this close to a national border under VFR or in
>> GA; anything I need to know?
>
> Not unless you fly 747 or SR-71 sized traffic patterns.
>
>> ... If I somehow manage to inadvertently cross it, are there any negative
>> consequences?
>
> A couple hundred yards, in what's obviously a traffic pattern, and a
> re-entry into US airspace and a landing - almost certainly not.
> They've got you on radar, or on TV cameras, or in binoculars at the
> eyeballs of the border agents in the black SUV's.
>
>> ... Put another way: what's involved w/ crossing an int'l border under
>> VFR?
>
> If you land, a lot (in theory). Although I'll tell a story at the end
> of this message. If you don't - probably nothing, if it's a tiny
> incursion.
>
>> .... Whazzat?? Some sort of TRSA-like service from Holloman AFB, I'm
>> guessing?
>
> That would be my interpretation as well. Black is TRSA.
>
>> ... Is it mandatory or voluntary?
>
> TRSA's are voluntary (VFR).
>
>> ... "for climb in visual conditions: cross Dona Ana County at Santa
>> Teresa Airport at or above 6800 before proceeding on course." What
>> exactly does that mean?
>
> Good question.
>
>> ... I'm guessing "circle as required overhead the field until
>> reaching 6,800', then on course"...
>
> Given that there are hills around up to 7K ft, that would make sense.
>
>
> So the story:
>
> I fly into Bisbee, AZ (P04) semi-regularly to visit friends that live on
> the airport. In 2006, we flew down for Thanksgiving on Thursday, and two
> other couples were flying in as well. One arrived before us - we arrived
> late afternoon, and the last couple was flying down from mid-AZ in their
> C-152. They stopped at Ryan Field near Tucson to get gas, called to let
> us all know, and then continued. From here on, the story becomes
> COMPLETELY hypothetical.
>
> It should have been just about an hour from Ryan to Bisbee in the C-152,
> but after about 90 minutes, we still didn't see them. Another 1/2 hour
> and we got a cell phone call that they were on the ground at an airport
> that they had THOUGHT was Bisbee, but wasn't, and they didn't know where
> it was, but they thought they might be in Mexico. Not good, we think. We
> also think "it's a 150 mile visibility day, with a GPS and VOR in the
> plane - how the F*ck could they get lost? Follow I-10 to Bensen, take a
> right to Tombstone, fly over the hills, past the big empty mine pit, and
> land at Bisbee."
>
> Anyway, our hosts thought that they knew what airport they might be at
> about 20 miles over the border from the description they could get from 3
> or 4 broken cell phone calls. The hosts told them to stay put and that
> they'd drive down to find them. They went over the border at Naco and
> headed south. It turned out that they WERE at this little paved strip in
> Mexico, surrounded by a few locals and cops. Back at the ranch, we were
> hoping that the host would NOT get in the plane and attempt to fly back to
> the US with the guy, because we figured that they'd get arrested as soon
> as they landed back at Bisbee.
>
> But that's exactly what he did - the guy's wife got in the car with the
> hostess and they drove back, while the host and the guy got in the plane
> and took off, just about at dusk. Apparently, they never climbed above
> about 400 ft. AGL, kept the lights off, and make no radio calls, as well
> as making a straight in approach to the runway at Bisbee. We never heard
> them until they pulled up at the hangar. We quickly tied them down and
> went inside, expecting the black SUV's to pull up with machine guns drawn
> any second - it was pretty clear they were running drugs (or illegals)
> across the border, right?
>
> 5, 10, 20, 60, 120 minutes goes by, and NO-ONE shows up at the airport.
> Nada, nil, zilch, zero, zip. No black SUV's - no machine guns - no cops -
> no border agents - nothing.
>
> So, the moral of the story is, if you're going to run drugs into the USA
> from Mexico, you should do it right about when all the border agents are
> sitting down to their somnambulistic Thanksgiving dinner, and they just
> don't care. And make sure that your airplane LOOKS like a drug runner -
> turn OFF the lights, fly low, make no traffic pattern, don't talk on the
> radio.
>
> Go figure.
>
> --
> Marc J. Zeitlin
> http://www.cozybuilders.org/
> Copyright (c) 2008 http://www.mdzeitlin.com/Marc/