A few months ago a group of us "pilots with kids" realized that our
pilot-rated children could no longer afford to fly even the clapped-out
rental 150s at our local FBO. Over a few beers, we started plotting a way to
help.

All of us were already aircraft owners -- but we all owned high-performance
(read: expensive to fly) aircraft. We realized that we'd have to come up
with a cheaper alternative, and started casting about for a solution.

One of the original members of our group was an Ercoupe fanatic, so we
started looking at these cute little antiques. I had flown one, once, back
in the mid-90s, and thought they were fun -- so when we found one for sale
nearby, we asked the owner to bring it into the shop for a pre-buy
inspection.

This was a '46 Model C, and it's main advantage was that it was
LSA-eligible. This was appealing for some of our original partners, who were
worried about obtaining or maintaining their medicals. Unfortunately, this
bird had more troubles than attributes, even though the owner had invested
significant money into fixing up the old plane. We decided to pass on that
plane.

In the meantime, one of our partners successfully re-upped his medical, and
the other medical-challenged partner dropped out of the picture -- so we
broadened our search to include later-model (non-LSA) Ercoupes. These had
the distinct advantage of a 200-pound greater useful load. Eventually we
found a '48 Model-E that had been in a ground accident. While on its way to
be delivered to a new owner, a fuel-truck driver backed into the wing,
crushing it. That sale was off, and the seller put the plane on a flat-bed
and returned it to Iowa.

The seller obtained new fabric wings (the damaged ones were metal), started
painting them -- and then (for reasons unknown) decided to sell the aircraft
and wings as-is. That's where we came on the scene.

One of our partners is an A&P/IA grand champion home-builder. With his
abilities, finishing the painting and installation of the new wings was a
simple, several-day project -- so we bought the plane and transported it to
our home base in Iowa City.

The aircraft was lovely, low-time, with a good panel and low-time engine.
Everything in the 60-year-old aircraft worked like new -- a true rarity --
and we immediately started sanding the wings.

Then the "Great Flood of '08" hit the Iowa City area, and the project ground
to a halt. To assure its safety in the flooding (which, thankfully never
reached the airport), we hung the little 'Coupe from the engine hoist
hanging from the ceiling in the shop, like a big Xmas ornament!

Then, when the flood waters receded, we departed on a long-planned week-long
flying vacation, so the 'Coupe project was back-shelved again.

After we returned from vacation last Thursday, we drove over to our
partner's shop -- and there, out front, was the Ercoupe -- wings mounted and
painted! While we were gone, our partner had finished the project -- and it
was drop-dead gorgeous!

Of course, even though we were just back from a week of flying, we had to
fly it. The only thing keeping us grounded was a lack of insurance -- which
I had been working on before we departed for vacation. So, it was a simple
phone call to my broker to get things rolling, and -- within an hour -- we
were covered and good to go!

Insurance being insurance, they require all of us get signed-off by a CFI
before we can fly solo. I need to get an hour of instruction before soloing.
My wife, Mary, needs five hours, while my son -- a new pilot last fall --
needs TEN. This to fly what was designed to be "Everyman's Plane" -- an
aircraft that could be flown with minimal instruction. Ah, yes, the
bureaucrats at work once again.

Luckily, Keith -- our A&P/IA partner -- has significant Ercoupe time, so he
was good to go right away. So, we were able to fly with him, no problemo.

First, the pre-flight. It's a 60-year-old antique, and things are a bit
different. To check the oil requires opening the cowling with a
screw-driver. That's where the gascolator is, too. Not exactly
user-friendly.

Then, check the control surfaces -- but know that you can't move the
ailerons, because the control yoke is connected to the nose wheel in an
Ercoupe! That's right, you steer the plane on the ground like a car, using
the yoke like a steering wheel -- rendering the ailerons immovable on the
ground.

The rudders can be moved, but just a little. They are inter-connected with
the ailerons, and there aren't any rudder pedals. You can't check the flaps,
cuz there aren't any. The rest of the pre-flight is normal.

Start up is a bit interesting. One pump of the primer, turn the key to
"both" magnetos, and then PULL the starter handle out, hard. This engages
the starter, and the little 85 horsepower Continental pops right over. The
pull starter seems odd but remember that contemporary aircraft of the
Ercoupe -- Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cessna 120s -- all had to be
hand-propped, so this set up was way ahead of its time.

Once started, you taxi out to the runway just like driving your car. There's
a brake pedal on the floor, and you steer it with the yoke. After many years
of flying "regular" planes, this was the weirdest part of all...

Run-up and mag check is normal, and then we trundled out onto the runway.
This first flight was "NORDO" because we didn't wear headsets (and there's
no speaker for the radios), so we just shouted at each other over the engine
noise.

And wind noise! The Ercoupe has a three-part canopy -- two side glass panels
that slide UP out of the fuselage, and one moveable roof panel that can be
slid to either side. When the temperatures are warm, you can fly it with the
top down -- just like a convertible. And, of course, the temperature was
pushing 90, so we opted to leave the sides down, elbows in the slipstream!

After a clearning turn, onto the runway we rolled. Without further ado,
Keith fire-walled the throttle...and not much happened but a lot more noise.
Slowly, we began to pick up speed, and -- after about 2000 feet of roll --
we hit 60 mph and just levitated off the runway! The bird flew!

Glancing nervously at the wings (that we so recently had moved on a
trailer), I was gratified to see no signs of flex or twist. The little plane
kept accelerating, slow but sure and we were soon climbing out at a whopping
300 feet per minute. Sedate, to be sure -- but with 420 pounds of "guys on
board", and hot weather, we were happy to see even THAT anemic rate of
climb.

Rounding the bend from crosswind to downwind to base to final, we were lined
up with a slight crosswind from the left. Without rudder pedals, Keith
simply crabbed the plane a bit all the way to the number, holding a fast 70
mph "just in case". This resulted in a floating touchdown, but we figured
too fast was better than too slow for our first landing.

Then, it was my turn! This time I grabbed my headsets, so we could test the
radios -- and quickly discovered a nasty surprise. At 6' tall, I was unable
to wear my Lightspeed headset with the top up! My neck was bent over at
about a 70-degree angle -- something that would make flying "interesting".
How in hell I hadn't noticed this before is beyond me, but I guess I just
never sat inside with the top up and my headsets on!

No problem -- we simply flew with the center canopy section pushed a bit
more over onto Keith's side (he's 6" shorter than me), and my head sticking
outside. No problem with the temperature pushing 90 degrees, but this would
be a serious impediment next winter! More on this later...

The throttle is this cool, art-deco quadrant slider, and I firewalled it and
waited. Normally, with the temps this hot, I'd lean to best RPM -- but the
Ercoupe has no mixture control. The carb is wired to full rich (there's an
STC'd mod to add a mixture control, but -- at $900 -- we've decided to wait
on that one), so no dice there.

In another slider next to the throttle (where you'd expect the mixture
control to be) is the elevator trim control. Cool looking, but not exactly
"normal"...

Weirdness aside, the plane flies like a dream! With dual rudders, and
limited rudder movement, combined with full-span ailerons, it's surprisingly
responsive in roll. Climb is artificially anemic, because of the limited
elevator travel (which makes the plane "stall proof", as advertised), but
certainly adequate for this class of aircraft. In the end, it's a
"knock-around" aircraft for us, and a "cheap flying" aircraft for our
kids -- and it fits the bill in both regards. Our estimate is that we should
be able to rent the plane to our kids for just FOURTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR,
dry!

Coming around on final, I pulled the yoke back to a steady 65 mph -- a bit
slower than Keith's approach speed. The Model E has a "stop" in the elevator
that -- if pulled to that spot -- will hold the plane in the landing
attitude. Then, in the final flare to land, you give the yoke a good, hard
pull -- which allows you to pull PAST the spring-induced stop, giving you
the extra flare necessary to land nosewheel up.

So, we're happy. All that remains is for our CFI to sign us all off
(unfortunately, he's currently on the "American Barnstormers Tour", flying
his '29 Travel Air all over the midwest), and we'll be good to go. What a
fun little plane to fly!

And what about that "head out the top" problem? Having a partner who is a
grand champion homebuilder is a real plus. Within two hours Keith had built
a modified bucket seat for me that lowers me a full two inches, and pushes
me back a full two inches -- giving me all the headroom I might need. Now I
can keep my head in the plane, with our without headphones...

Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
this year!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Congrats Jay...
It is a big benefit to have an A&P/IA as a partner..
And I'm sure the "kids" will put more hours on it than the big 240pounders
do.

BT

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:tFi9k.174686$TT4.20883@attbi_s22...
>A few months ago a group of us "pilots with kids" realized that our
>pilot-rated children could no longer afford to fly even the clapped-out
>rental 150s at our local FBO. Over a few beers, we started plotting a way
>to help.
>
> All of us were already aircraft owners -- but we all owned
> high-performance (read: expensive to fly) aircraft. We realized that we'd
> have to come up with a cheaper alternative, and started casting about for
> a solution.
>
> One of the original members of our group was an Ercoupe fanatic, so we
> started looking at these cute little antiques. I had flown one, once, back
> in the mid-90s, and thought they were fun -- so when we found one for sale
> nearby, we asked the owner to bring it into the shop for a pre-buy
> inspection.
>
> This was a '46 Model C, and it's main advantage was that it was
> LSA-eligible. This was appealing for some of our original partners, who
> were worried about obtaining or maintaining their medicals. Unfortunately,
> this bird had more troubles than attributes, even though the owner had
> invested significant money into fixing up the old plane. We decided to
> pass on that plane.
>
> In the meantime, one of our partners successfully re-upped his medical,
> and the other medical-challenged partner dropped out of the picture -- so
> we broadened our search to include later-model (non-LSA) Ercoupes. These
> had the distinct advantage of a 200-pound greater useful load. Eventually
> we found a '48 Model-E that had been in a ground accident. While on its
> way to be delivered to a new owner, a fuel-truck driver backed into the
> wing, crushing it. That sale was off, and the seller put the plane on a
> flat-bed and returned it to Iowa.
>
> The seller obtained new fabric wings (the damaged ones were metal),
> started painting them -- and then (for reasons unknown) decided to sell
> the aircraft and wings as-is. That's where we came on the scene.
>
> One of our partners is an A&P/IA grand champion home-builder. With his
> abilities, finishing the painting and installation of the new wings was a
> simple, several-day project -- so we bought the plane and transported it
> to our home base in Iowa City.
>
> The aircraft was lovely, low-time, with a good panel and low-time engine.
> Everything in the 60-year-old aircraft worked like new -- a true rarity --
> and we immediately started sanding the wings.
>
> Then the "Great Flood of '08" hit the Iowa City area, and the project
> ground to a halt. To assure its safety in the flooding (which, thankfully
> never reached the airport), we hung the little 'Coupe from the engine
> hoist hanging from the ceiling in the shop, like a big Xmas ornament!
>
> Then, when the flood waters receded, we departed on a long-planned
> week-long flying vacation, so the 'Coupe project was back-shelved again.
>
> After we returned from vacation last Thursday, we drove over to our
> partner's shop -- and there, out front, was the Ercoupe -- wings mounted
> and painted! While we were gone, our partner had finished the project --
> and it was drop-dead gorgeous!
>
> Of course, even though we were just back from a week of flying, we had to
> fly it. The only thing keeping us grounded was a lack of insurance --
> which I had been working on before we departed for vacation. So, it was a
> simple phone call to my broker to get things rolling, and -- within an
> hour -- we were covered and good to go!
>
> Insurance being insurance, they require all of us get signed-off by a CFI
> before we can fly solo. I need to get an hour of instruction before
> soloing. My wife, Mary, needs five hours, while my son -- a new pilot last
> fall -- needs TEN. This to fly what was designed to be "Everyman's
> Plane" -- an aircraft that could be flown with minimal instruction. Ah,
> yes, the bureaucrats at work once again.
>
> Luckily, Keith -- our A&P/IA partner -- has significant Ercoupe time, so
> he was good to go right away. So, we were able to fly with him, no
> problemo.
>
> First, the pre-flight. It's a 60-year-old antique, and things are a bit
> different. To check the oil requires opening the cowling with a
> screw-driver. That's where the gascolator is, too. Not exactly
> user-friendly.
>
> Then, check the control surfaces -- but know that you can't move the
> ailerons, because the control yoke is connected to the nose wheel in an
> Ercoupe! That's right, you steer the plane on the ground like a car, using
> the yoke like a steering wheel -- rendering the ailerons immovable on the
> ground.
>
> The rudders can be moved, but just a little. They are inter-connected with
> the ailerons, and there aren't any rudder pedals. You can't check the
> flaps, cuz there aren't any. The rest of the pre-flight is normal.
>
> Start up is a bit interesting. One pump of the primer, turn the key to
> "both" magnetos, and then PULL the starter handle out, hard. This engages
> the starter, and the little 85 horsepower Continental pops right over. The
> pull starter seems odd but remember that contemporary aircraft of the
> Ercoupe -- Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cessna 120s -- all had to be
> hand-propped, so this set up was way ahead of its time.
>
> Once started, you taxi out to the runway just like driving your car.
> There's a brake pedal on the floor, and you steer it with the yoke. After
> many years of flying "regular" planes, this was the weirdest part of
> all...
>
> Run-up and mag check is normal, and then we trundled out onto the runway.
> This first flight was "NORDO" because we didn't wear headsets (and there's
> no speaker for the radios), so we just shouted at each other over the
> engine noise.
>
> And wind noise! The Ercoupe has a three-part canopy -- two side glass
> panels that slide UP out of the fuselage, and one moveable roof panel that
> can be slid to either side. When the temperatures are warm, you can fly it
> with the top down -- just like a convertible. And, of course, the
> temperature was pushing 90, so we opted to leave the sides down, elbows in
> the slipstream!
>
> After a clearning turn, onto the runway we rolled. Without further ado,
> Keith fire-walled the throttle...and not much happened but a lot more
> noise. Slowly, we began to pick up speed, and -- after about 2000 feet of
> roll -- we hit 60 mph and just levitated off the runway! The bird flew!
>
> Glancing nervously at the wings (that we so recently had moved on a
> trailer), I was gratified to see no signs of flex or twist. The little
> plane kept accelerating, slow but sure and we were soon climbing out at a
> whopping 300 feet per minute. Sedate, to be sure -- but with 420 pounds of
> "guys on board", and hot weather, we were happy to see even THAT anemic
> rate of climb.
>
> Rounding the bend from crosswind to downwind to base to final, we were
> lined up with a slight crosswind from the left. Without rudder pedals,
> Keith simply crabbed the plane a bit all the way to the number, holding a
> fast 70 mph "just in case". This resulted in a floating touchdown, but we
> figured too fast was better than too slow for our first landing.
>
> Then, it was my turn! This time I grabbed my headsets, so we could test
> the radios -- and quickly discovered a nasty surprise. At 6' tall, I was
> unable to wear my Lightspeed headset with the top up! My neck was bent
> over at about a 70-degree angle -- something that would make flying
> "interesting". How in hell I hadn't noticed this before is beyond me, but
> I guess I just never sat inside with the top up and my headsets on!
>
> No problem -- we simply flew with the center canopy section pushed a bit
> more over onto Keith's side (he's 6" shorter than me), and my head
> sticking outside. No problem with the temperature pushing 90 degrees, but
> this would be a serious impediment next winter! More on this later...
>
> The throttle is this cool, art-deco quadrant slider, and I firewalled it
> and waited. Normally, with the temps this hot, I'd lean to best RPM -- but
> the Ercoupe has no mixture control. The carb is wired to full rich
> (there's an STC'd mod to add a mixture control, but -- at $900 -- we've
> decided to wait on that one), so no dice there.
>
> In another slider next to the throttle (where you'd expect the mixture
> control to be) is the elevator trim control. Cool looking, but not exactly
> "normal"...
>
> Weirdness aside, the plane flies like a dream! With dual rudders, and
> limited rudder movement, combined with full-span ailerons, it's
> surprisingly responsive in roll. Climb is artificially anemic, because of
> the limited elevator travel (which makes the plane "stall proof", as
> advertised), but certainly adequate for this class of aircraft. In the
> end, it's a "knock-around" aircraft for us, and a "cheap flying" aircraft
> for our kids -- and it fits the bill in both regards. Our estimate is that
> we should be able to rent the plane to our kids for just FOURTEEN DOLLARS
> AN HOUR, dry!
>
> Coming around on final, I pulled the yoke back to a steady 65 mph -- a bit
> slower than Keith's approach speed. The Model E has a "stop" in the
> elevator that -- if pulled to that spot -- will hold the plane in the
> landing attitude. Then, in the final flare to land, you give the yoke a
> good, hard pull -- which allows you to pull PAST the spring-induced stop,
> giving you the extra flare necessary to land nosewheel up.
>
> So, we're happy. All that remains is for our CFI to sign us all off
> (unfortunately, he's currently on the "American Barnstormers Tour", flying
> his '29 Travel Air all over the midwest), and we'll be good to go. What a
> fun little plane to fly!
>
> And what about that "head out the top" problem? Having a partner who is a
> grand champion homebuilder is a real plus. Within two hours Keith had
> built a modified bucket seat for me that lowers me a full two inches, and
> pushes me back a full two inches -- giving me all the headroom I might
> need. Now I can keep my head in the plane, with our without headphones...
>
> Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
> this year!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> Ercoupe N94856
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

>The carb is wired to full rich (there's an STC'd mod to add a mixture
>control, but -- at $900 -- we've decided to wait on that one), so no dice
>there.

If you have to put that nasty lead gas in it, will it have a problem loading
up the plugs on a long idle taxi?

> Our estimate is that we should be able to rent the plane to our kids for
> just FOURTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR, dry!

Wow!

That include the cost of buying the plane, engine reserve, insurance,
annuals and repairs, and hangar?

> And what about that "head out the top" problem? Having a partner who is a
> grand champion homebuilder is a real plus. Within two hours Keith had
> built a modified bucket seat for me that lowers me a full two inches, and
> pushes me back a full two inches -- giving me all the headroom I might
> need. Now I can keep my head in the plane, with our without headphones...

I thought you were going to say that you built a homebrew headset from some
in the ear plugs and an old microphone from an old headset. That has been
done, and that would be my firs choice, I think.

> Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
> this year!

Are you kidding? You going to pull a trailer with the 'coupe, with all of
your camping gear in it? <g>
--
Jim in NC

Jay, why am I not reading this in
AOPA, or Flying magazine?
This is a great story.
Lou

> If you have to put that nasty lead gas in it, will it have a problem
> loading
> up the plugs on a long idle taxi?

That's a great question. I don't know, but we'll probably be using The
Mighty Grape to fuel it with that sweet, "cheap" (ha!), unleaded mogas most
of the time anyway...

Keith really wants to get rid of this carburetor, and so do I -- but (as
with all of these things) it would be easy to dump $5K into this right away,
which completely negates the idea of this being "cheap flying". So I'm
trying to put the brakes on all of our "wants" until we've flown the plane a
while.

>> Our estimate is that we should be able to rent the plane to our kids for
>> just FOURTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR, dry!
>
> Wow!
>
> That include the cost of buying the plane, engine reserve, insurance,
> annuals and repairs, and hangar?

Yep, that's the number we came up with using AOPA's expense estimator web
page. I think it'll work out to closer to $20/hour (dry) in the long run,
but we'll subsidize it for the kids to keep it cheap.

>> Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
>> this year!
>
> Are you kidding? You going to pull a trailer with the 'coupe, with all of
> your camping gear in it? <g>

We've actually been trying to figure out how to fly the 'Coupe into OSH a
couple of days early, park it in the antique/classic section, and then hitch
a ride back to KIOW so we can do the pool party and fly up in formation with
everyone in Atlas.

With our schedule, that probably won't happen -- but Joe's just too green to
fly it in by himself. Maybe next year!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:58:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>A few months ago a group of us "pilots with kids" realized that our
>pilot-rated children could no longer afford to fly even the clapped-out
>rental 150s at our local FBO. Over a few beers, we started plotting a way to
>help.
>
>All of us were already aircraft owners -- but we all owned high-performance
>(read: expensive to fly) aircraft. We realized that we'd have to come up
>with a cheaper alternative, and started casting about for a solution.
>
>One of the original members of our group was an Ercoupe fanatic, so we
>started looking at these cute little antiques. I had flown one, once, back
>in the mid-90s, and thought they were fun -- so when we found one for sale
>nearby, we asked the owner to bring it into the shop for a pre-buy
>inspection.
>
>This was a '46 Model C, and it's main advantage was that it was
>LSA-eligible. This was appealing for some of our original partners, who were
>worried about obtaining or maintaining their medicals. Unfortunately, this
>bird had more troubles than attributes, even though the owner had invested
>significant money into fixing up the old plane. We decided to pass on that
>plane.
>
>In the meantime, one of our partners successfully re-upped his medical, and
>the other medical-challenged partner dropped out of the picture -- so we
>broadened our search to include later-model (non-LSA) Ercoupes. These had
>the distinct advantage of a 200-pound greater useful load. Eventually we
>found a '48 Model-E that had been in a ground accident. While on its way to
>be delivered to a new owner, a fuel-truck driver backed into the wing,
>crushing it. That sale was off, and the seller put the plane on a flat-bed
>and returned it to Iowa.
>
>The seller obtained new fabric wings (the damaged ones were metal), started
>painting them -- and then (for reasons unknown) decided to sell the aircraft
>and wings as-is. That's where we came on the scene.
>
>One of our partners is an A&P/IA grand champion home-builder. With his
>abilities, finishing the painting and installation of the new wings was a
>simple, several-day project -- so we bought the plane and transported it to
>our home base in Iowa City.
>
>The aircraft was lovely, low-time, with a good panel and low-time engine.
>Everything in the 60-year-old aircraft worked like new -- a true rarity --
>and we immediately started sanding the wings.
>
>Then the "Great Flood of '08" hit the Iowa City area, and the project ground
>to a halt. To assure its safety in the flooding (which, thankfully never
>reached the airport), we hung the little 'Coupe from the engine hoist
>hanging from the ceiling in the shop, like a big Xmas ornament!
>
>Then, when the flood waters receded, we departed on a long-planned week-long
>flying vacation, so the 'Coupe project was back-shelved again.
>
>After we returned from vacation last Thursday, we drove over to our
>partner's shop -- and there, out front, was the Ercoupe -- wings mounted and
>painted! While we were gone, our partner had finished the project -- and it
>was drop-dead gorgeous!
>
>Of course, even though we were just back from a week of flying, we had to
>fly it. The only thing keeping us grounded was a lack of insurance -- which
>I had been working on before we departed for vacation. So, it was a simple
>phone call to my broker to get things rolling, and -- within an hour -- we
>were covered and good to go!
>
>Insurance being insurance, they require all of us get signed-off by a CFI
>before we can fly solo. I need to get an hour of instruction before soloing.
>My wife, Mary, needs five hours, while my son -- a new pilot last fall --
>needs TEN. This to fly what was designed to be "Everyman's Plane" -- an
>aircraft that could be flown with minimal instruction. Ah, yes, the
>bureaucrats at work once again.
>
>Luckily, Keith -- our A&P/IA partner -- has significant Ercoupe time, so he
>was good to go right away. So, we were able to fly with him, no problemo.
>
>First, the pre-flight. It's a 60-year-old antique, and things are a bit
>different. To check the oil requires opening the cowling with a
>screw-driver. That's where the gascolator is, too. Not exactly
>user-friendly.
>
>Then, check the control surfaces -- but know that you can't move the
>ailerons, because the control yoke is connected to the nose wheel in an
>Ercoupe! That's right, you steer the plane on the ground like a car, using
>the yoke like a steering wheel -- rendering the ailerons immovable on the
>ground.
>
>The rudders can be moved, but just a little. They are inter-connected with
>the ailerons, and there aren't any rudder pedals. You can't check the flaps,
>cuz there aren't any. The rest of the pre-flight is normal.
>
>Start up is a bit interesting. One pump of the primer, turn the key to
>"both" magnetos, and then PULL the starter handle out, hard. This engages
>the starter, and the little 85 horsepower Continental pops right over. The
>pull starter seems odd but remember that contemporary aircraft of the
>Ercoupe -- Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cessna 120s -- all had to be
>hand-propped, so this set up was way ahead of its time.
>
>Once started, you taxi out to the runway just like driving your car. There's
>a brake pedal on the floor, and you steer it with the yoke. After many years
>of flying "regular" planes, this was the weirdest part of all...
>
>Run-up and mag check is normal, and then we trundled out onto the runway.
>This first flight was "NORDO" because we didn't wear headsets (and there's
>no speaker for the radios), so we just shouted at each other over the engine
>noise.
>
>And wind noise! The Ercoupe has a three-part canopy -- two side glass panels
>that slide UP out of the fuselage, and one moveable roof panel that can be
>slid to either side. When the temperatures are warm, you can fly it with the
>top down -- just like a convertible. And, of course, the temperature was
>pushing 90, so we opted to leave the sides down, elbows in the slipstream!
>
>After a clearning turn, onto the runway we rolled. Without further ado,
>Keith fire-walled the throttle...and not much happened but a lot more noise.
>Slowly, we began to pick up speed, and -- after about 2000 feet of roll --
>we hit 60 mph and just levitated off the runway! The bird flew!
>
>Glancing nervously at the wings (that we so recently had moved on a
>trailer), I was gratified to see no signs of flex or twist. The little plane
>kept accelerating, slow but sure and we were soon climbing out at a whopping
>300 feet per minute. Sedate, to be sure -- but with 420 pounds of "guys on
>board", and hot weather, we were happy to see even THAT anemic rate of
>climb.
>
>Rounding the bend from crosswind to downwind to base to final, we were lined
>up with a slight crosswind from the left. Without rudder pedals, Keith
>simply crabbed the plane a bit all the way to the number, holding a fast 70
>mph "just in case". This resulted in a floating touchdown, but we figured
>too fast was better than too slow for our first landing.
>
>Then, it was my turn! This time I grabbed my headsets, so we could test the
>radios -- and quickly discovered a nasty surprise. At 6' tall, I was unable
>to wear my Lightspeed headset with the top up! My neck was bent over at
>about a 70-degree angle -- something that would make flying "interesting".
>How in hell I hadn't noticed this before is beyond me, but I guess I just
>never sat inside with the top up and my headsets on!
>
>No problem -- we simply flew with the center canopy section pushed a bit
>more over onto Keith's side (he's 6" shorter than me), and my head sticking
>outside. No problem with the temperature pushing 90 degrees, but this would
>be a serious impediment next winter! More on this later...
>
>The throttle is this cool, art-deco quadrant slider, and I firewalled it and
>waited. Normally, with the temps this hot, I'd lean to best RPM -- but the
>Ercoupe has no mixture control. The carb is wired to full rich (there's an
>STC'd mod to add a mixture control, but -- at $900 -- we've decided to wait
>on that one), so no dice there.
>
>In another slider next to the throttle (where you'd expect the mixture
>control to be) is the elevator trim control. Cool looking, but not exactly
>"normal"...
>
>Weirdness aside, the plane flies like a dream! With dual rudders, and
>limited rudder movement, combined with full-span ailerons, it's surprisingly
>responsive in roll. Climb is artificially anemic, because of the limited
>elevator travel (which makes the plane "stall proof", as advertised), but
>certainly adequate for this class of aircraft. In the end, it's a
>"knock-around" aircraft for us, and a "cheap flying" aircraft for our
>kids -- and it fits the bill in both regards. Our estimate is that we should
>be able to rent the plane to our kids for just FOURTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR,
>dry!
>
>Coming around on final, I pulled the yoke back to a steady 65 mph -- a bit
>slower than Keith's approach speed. The Model E has a "stop" in the elevator
>that -- if pulled to that spot -- will hold the plane in the landing
>attitude. Then, in the final flare to land, you give the yoke a good, hard
>pull -- which allows you to pull PAST the spring-induced stop, giving you
>the extra flare necessary to land nosewheel up.
>
>So, we're happy. All that remains is for our CFI to sign us all off
>(unfortunately, he's currently on the "American Barnstormers Tour", flying
>his '29 Travel Air all over the midwest), and we'll be good to go. What a
>fun little plane to fly!
>
>And what about that "head out the top" problem? Having a partner who is a
>grand champion homebuilder is a real plus. Within two hours Keith had built
>a modified bucket seat for me that lowers me a full two inches, and pushes
>me back a full two inches -- giving me all the headroom I might need. Now I
>can keep my head in the plane, with our without headphones...
>
>Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
>this year!

you redeemed your internet chutzpa totally with that post.
good one.

even bertie the bunyip will be impressed!

Stealth Pilot

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:tFi9k.174686$TT4.20883@attbi_s22...
>
> Insurance being insurance, they require all of us get signed-off by a CFI
> before we can fly solo. I need to get an hour of instruction before soloing.
> My wife, Mary, needs five hours, while my son -- a new pilot last fall --
> needs TEN. This to fly what was designed to be "Everyman's Plane" -- an
> aircraft that could be flown with minimal instruction. Ah, yes, the
> bureaucrats at work once again.
>


Completely bogus insurance company there. You need to shop around and find one that knows what they are insuring!

CA Kingsford-Smith, son of the real deal and owner of a Luscombe once
remarked that the "biggest delta X in flying was getting off the
ground!"

I guess you are demonstrating that. More of us will be doing so.

Bill Hale

In article <o%p9k.229366$yE1.40599@attbi_s21>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Keith really wants to get rid of this carburetor, and so do I -- but (as
> with all of these things) it would be easy to dump $5K into this right away,
> which completely negates the idea of this being "cheap flying". So I'm
> trying to put the brakes on all of our "wants" until we've flown the plane a
> while.

That is a hard to find carburetor with the mixture control for that
engine. I know, I looked for one for several years to put on the Champ.
There are some junk ones that people want too much money for, so let
Keith look before you buy.

> With our schedule, that probably won't happen -- but Joe's just too green to
> fly it in by himself.

He's not going to learn any younger. Send him out early, before the
crowds are expected. He will do fine.

Jay:

If you could make it to West Bend or preferably Waukesha, I would be glad to
give you a ride to Iowa City. I am free the weekend before OSH, and could
have you back in around an hour from when we met.

You can contact me offline if this works for you.

JN

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:tFi9k.174686$TT4.20883@attbi_s22...
>A few months ago a group of us "pilots with kids" realized that our
>pilot-rated children could no longer afford to fly even the clapped-out
>rental 150s at our local FBO. Over a few beers, we started plotting a way
>to help.
<snip>

That's a great story and a nice little project. I don't have much time in
an Ercoupe, but my first flight in one definitely changed my impression of
them.

As far as the starter goes, a lot of pre-60's model aircraft have those
types of starters. They are actually kind of nice because instead of having
a starter solenoid, you provide that function by pulling out the starter
knob. It's one less thing to go wrong, although sometimes you need to make
minor adjustments to the linkage to get it to work right.

> If you could make it to West Bend or preferably Waukesha, I would be glad
> to give you a ride to Iowa City. I am free the weekend before OSH, and
> could have you back in around an hour from when we met.

Thanks, Doc. We're still debating internally who (if anyone) gets to fly
the 'Coupe to OSH.

Yesterday I stopped over at Keith's shop for a cup o' joe, only to find him
and other-partner Bob replacing a jug! It seems that Keith took 'er up
for a test flight (after tinkering some more with the carb) and it just
"didn't feel right". After he landed he did a compression check, and
discovered one of the jugs was 40/80.

Of course it was the one that was a bit low at the pre-buy. Seems that an
exhaust valve decided it was time to leak -- with just 26 hours on that
cylinder.

Keith being Keith, he just "happened to have" a serviceable Continental
cylinder in his shop, left-over from some long-forgotten project, so within
two hours we had four good jugs with 78/80 compressions.

I tell ya, guys, having an A&P/IA for a partner is just hard to beat. If
that had happened to just Bob and me, we'd have been down for a week,
pricing our options, wringing our hands over brands and types, spending 1.0
AMU and untold hours of research. With Keith, a blown jug is just a minor
inconvenience...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> you redeemed your internet chutzpa totally with that post.
> good one.

I copied it here from a post I made over at Pilots of America. I figured
*maybe* this newsgroup was still safe to post to...thought I'd see if anyone
was still here.

> even bertie the bunyip will be impressed!

Now I know what the old adage "to be damned with faint praise" really
means...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article <9LV9k.231529$yE1.163731@attbi_s21>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > you redeemed your internet chutzpa totally with that post.
> > good one.
>
> I copied it here from a post I made over at Pilots of America. I figured
> *maybe* this newsgroup was still safe to post to...thought I'd see if anyone
> was still here.

fwiw - I saw it here before I saw it on POA...

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

> fwiw - I saw it here before I saw it on POA...

It's in the "Flight Following" section.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:26:45 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> you redeemed your internet chutzpa totally with that post.
>> good one.
>
>I copied it here from a post I made over at Pilots of America. I figured
>*maybe* this newsgroup was still safe to post to...thought I'd see if anyone
>was still here.
>
>> even bertie the bunyip will be impressed!
>
>Now I know what the old adage "to be damned with faint praise" really
>means...

no not intended as damning with faint praise at all.
bertie rips into the ******s and I have to say that that tron guy
stuff is off in la la land.
that post was genuinely a redeemer.

lets hope that others are motivated to follow your lead.
Stealth Pilot

Mike wrote:
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:tFi9k.174686$TT4.20883@attbi_s22...
>> A few months ago a group of us "pilots with kids" realized that our
>> pilot-rated children could no longer afford to fly even the
>> clapped-out rental 150s at our local FBO. Over a few beers, we started
>> plotting a way to help.
> <snip>
>
> That's a great story and a nice little project. I don't have much time
> in an Ercoupe, but my first flight in one definitely changed my
> impression of them.
>
> As far as the starter goes, a lot of pre-60's model aircraft have those
> types of starters. They are actually kind of nice because instead of
> having a starter solenoid, you provide that function by pulling out the
> starter knob. It's one less thing to go wrong, although sometimes you
> need to make minor adjustments to the linkage to get it to work right.
>
>

Until you pull the thing and it comes out of the panel like it did in a
C-150 on me one time.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Ross > writes:

>>
>> As far as the starter goes, a lot of pre-60's model aircraft have those
>> types of starters. They are actually kind of nice because instead of
>> having a starter solenoid, you provide that function by pulling out the
>> starter knob. It's one less thing to go wrong, although sometimes you
>> need to make minor adjustments to the linkage to get it to work right.
>>
>>

>Until you pull the thing and it comes out of the panel like it did in a
>C-150 on me one time.

Years ago, a friend related that he was somewhere in a Borgward or
something equally bad; and when he pulled its START knob, there was a rope
attached....

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Jun 28, 3:58 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Now, we're gonna have to arm wrestle to see who gets to fly it to Oshkosh
> this year!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> Ercoupe N94856
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Hi Jay, long time no see... I am so glad that you and yours survived
the great flood of '08! The Ercoupe sounds like a great new toy to
boot.
p.s. email is invalid.. new is fasto_tt at yahoo dot com
--
Aaron (ex 9376J)

Jay: Glad to hear you kept your feet dry....Did the airport
and/or its occupants suffer any damage?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

> Jay: Glad to hear you kept your feet dry....Did the airport
> and/or its occupants suffer any damage?

Nope -- but our FBO sure sold a lot of fuel to all of us getting out of
Dodge ahead of the flood waters. I haven't seen that many planes flying
out of Iowa City, ever!

It was close -- but neither we nor the airport got wet.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

congrats on your purchase. I was hot for Ercoupes for several years,
but going to an Ercoupe maintanence seminar at Oshkosh 07 cured me of
that. Of course I don't have an A&P for a partner either....

> congrats on your purchase. I was hot for Ercoupes for several years,
> but going to an Ercoupe maintanence seminar at Oshkosh 07 cured me of
> that. Of course I don't have an A&P for a partner either....

Can you share some of what you learned? Other than the wing service
bulletin that requires an incredible 17 inspection panels in the bottom of
the wing, I haven't heard about any real Ercoupe maintenance bugaboos.

It's a remarkably simple aircraft. I helped with the annual inspection, and
there was nothing that didn't come apart easily, and everything seemed very
robust. It was designed as an "Everyman's Plane" (kinda like the original
Volkswagen cars), and was designed to be simple to fly and easy to maintain.

Of course, it *is* 60 years old. Luckily, ours has many new parts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Jul 2, 12:47*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > congrats on your purchase. *I was hot for Ercoupes for several years,
> > but going to an Ercoupe maintanence seminar at Oshkosh 07 cured me of
> > that. *Of course I don't have an A&P for a partner either....
>
> Can you share some of what you learned? *Other than the wing service
> bulletin that requires an incredible 17 inspection panels in the bottom of
> the wing, I haven't heard about any real Ercoupe maintenance bugaboos.

Mainly intergranular corrosion. I learned that, except for the Alon
models, all the Ercoupe spars were made in one batch in the 1940s,
whichever year it was that most 'coupes were made (1947?) , and that
same batch of spars was passed from type owner to type owner over the
years and continued to be used. Now it's turning out that they have
significant manufacturing defects (I think having to do with the
interface between different metal types) and they are all rotting from
the inside out. Since the corrosion is internal and intergranular,
it's pretty hard to detect without specialized equipment, and once it
can be detected visually, the spar is already a total loss. Also,
because it's intergranular, no amount of keeping the spars dry or anti-
corrosion coatings will help.

Note that this is not the same as the conventional corrosion that
prompted the swiss cheese AD, which was thought to be caused by leaks,
mouse urine, etc. Like I said that may not be as much of a problem
with an A&P for a partner, but it was enough to scare me off.

However on the bright side, last year at OshKosh someone announced
that he had completed an STC to bring the sport pilot eligible
Ercoupe's gross weight up to the sport pilot maximum -- a 60lb
increase.

I agree with you that the 'coupe is a blast to fly, screw the snobs
who hate it because of no rudder pedals, or its ability to land at ANY
airspeed (as long as the gear and tail heights are rigged right), or
its other "quirky" features -- flying is supposed to be fun, right?

However I do sort of agree with your insurance company on training,
they are very easy and fun to fly but some things (like xwind
handling) are different enough that someone trained on a conventional
airplane has to unlearn a few things, or at least do some things that
feel very uncomfortable at first (taking off in a left crosswind is,
umm, fun). It would probably be easier without years of conventional
two-control airplane experience under your belt :).

>Mainly intergranular corrosion. I learned that, except for the Alon
>models, all the Ercoupe spars were made in one batch in the 1940s,
>whichever year it was that most 'coupes were made (1947?)

<Big snip>

Thanks for that. The intergranular corrosion issue is a huge one, and not
just for Ercoupes. Cherokee spars have experienced it, too. It's fatal,
and expensive to fix. Service bulletin 1006 addresses it, and performance
should be a mandatory part of any pre-buy inspection. If it hasn't been
done, either do it (it's not hard) or pass on the plane.

Luckily, intergranular corrosion is fairly easy to spot, once it's
started -- so it's easy to rule out a plane that's got it. Unfortunately,
it can be lurking inside any spar, unseen.

>However on the bright side, last year at OshKosh someone announced
>that he had completed an STC to bring the sport pilot eligible
>Ercoupe's gross weight up to the sport pilot maximum -- a 60lb
>increase.

Yep, that's another reason we passed on the LSA Ercoupes. I can tell you
right now that if you see two full-grown men flying in a '46 model, that
aircraft is over gross. How in the heck any CFI gives instruction in those
models is beyond me -- they must just look the other way at the FARs and go
fly.

>However I do sort of agree with your insurance company on training,
>they are very easy and fun to fly but some things (like xwind
>handling) are different enough that someone trained on a conventional
>airplane has to unlearn a few things, or at least do some things that
>feel very uncomfortable at first (taking off in a left crosswind is,
>umm, fun). It would probably be easier without years of conventional
>two-control airplane experience under your belt :).

I spent some quality time with our insurance policy yesterday, and was
delighted to discover that the company had listed ME as "Honeck, Sr" and my
son as "Honeck, Jr." Since *I* am "Jr.", and my son is "III", I was
mis-reading my insurance requirements to show that I needed a bunch of dual.
I don't.

So, today we're off to fly the 'Coupe!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Jul 2, 11:10*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Luckily, intergranular corrosion is fairly easy to spot, once it's
> started -- so it's easy to rule out a plane that's got it. * Unfortunately,
> it can be lurking inside any spar, unseen.

You mean it's fairly easy to spot once it makes it way out, right?
What I learned was that once it's spottable, it's unrepairable because
it's worked its way from the inside of the metal to the outside. This
may be different between Ercoupes and Cherokees depending on how deep
inside the metal the interface is? I'm not an expert, only speaking
from a 1 hour seminar at OSH.

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> With our schedule, that probably won't happen -- but Joe's just too
> green to fly it in by himself. Maybe next year!

Have Joe fly it up the Tuesday or Wednesday before and it's just like
flying into any sleepy, controlled field. He can park it in Vintage
(almost anywhere he wants!) and set up his pup tent. I'm sure there
will be plenty of places he can volunteer while waiting for you to show
up at OSH, or if he wants to come to the party one of his parents can
fly up to get him the evening he lands.

Margy

> Have Joe fly it up the Tuesday or Wednesday before and it's just like
> flying into any sleepy, controlled field. He can park it in Vintage
> (almost anywhere he wants!) and set up his pup tent. I'm sure there will
> be plenty of places he can volunteer while waiting for you to show up at
> OSH, or if he wants to come to the party one of his parents can fly up to
> get him the evening he lands.

Great idea! We're talking about that right now.

He's gonna have to work on his tower procedures, and he's still got to get
checked out in the Ercoupe -- but it sounds like a great experience for him.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2008-06-28, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> pull starter seems odd but remember that contemporary aircraft of the
> Ercoupe -- Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cessna 120s -- all had to be
> hand-propped, so this set up was way ahead of its time.

The Cessna 140 had a starter from new (it was the posh version of the
120), with probably a very similar pull handle for starting!

> Glancing nervously at the wings (that we so recently had moved on a
> trailer), I was gratified to see no signs of flex or twist. The little plane
> kept accelerating, slow but sure and we were soon climbing out at a whopping
> 300 feet per minute. Sedate, to be sure -- but with 420 pounds of "guys on
> board", and hot weather, we were happy to see even THAT anemic rate of
> climb.

Now imagine crossing the Sierra Nevadas in something like that :-) Our
140 had a cruise prop. I did cross the Sierra Nevada in it. It took
about 100 miles distance before I had sufficient altitude after leaving
Sacramento!

Leaving SLC on a 90 degree day (elevation 4000') was interesting too. To
gain extra climb rate, I slope soared the 140 off the mountains. It made
a huge difference to the climb rate. The highest airfield I took the 140
into was Four Corners, elevation 6000'. The climb rate was impressively
unimpressive. But once at 11000 feet or so, it used 3.5 gph at wide open
throttle doing just under 90 kts.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On 2008-06-28, Morgans > wrote:
> Are you kidding? You going to pull a trailer with the 'coupe, with all of
> your camping gear in it? <g>

It's possible to travel light!

When I had the 140, I got enough gear in it to do a coast to coast
camping trip (coast to coast in the US). I didn't have anyone with me,
but the right seat was empty bar my charts - I could get everything I
needed behind the seat.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

> Now imagine crossing the Sierra Nevadas in something like that :-) Our
> 140 had a cruise prop. I did cross the Sierra Nevada in it. It took
> about 100 miles distance before I had sufficient altitude after leaving
> Sacramento!

Cool trip...

I don't think I'd have the patience to climb the Ercoupe to 11,000 feet,
though. It would take all day, at least in summer.

We flew back from Waterloo, IA (ALO) to Iowa City (IOW) yesterday, and never
went above 2500 feet. (I've not flown the 'Coupe above 3000 feet yet.) We
were coming back from having some avionics and pitot/static system work done
up at McCandless Aviation (a great avionics shop, BTW), and had to shoot the
gap between a couple of lines of storms. Bucking a Southerly headwind,
with a ground speed of a whopping 70 knots, "shooting the gap" is a whole
different thing than I'm used to in the Pathfinder -- but it worked out
fine.

You've just got to be patient!

And what a gas, to be flying down I-380 with the "top down" -- 2000 feet
above the traffic. It's sure fun on a hot summer day!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2008-07-11, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> I don't think I'd have the patience to climb the Ercoupe to 11,000 feet,
> though. It would take all day, at least in summer.

It does take all day, and you've got no option when crossing mountains!

> We flew back from Waterloo, IA (ALO) to Iowa City (IOW) yesterday, and never
> went above 2500 feet. (I've not flown the 'Coupe above 3000 feet yet.)

I typically flew the C140 at 1000-1500 feet - except in the height of
summer where I'd get it a bit higher for cooler and smoother air. Often,
with the windows open. I really miss the C140!

What I wouldn't like, though, would be having to keep it polished where
I live now...that just wouldn't work. I just miss flying altogether at
the moment - but the engine is nearly finished on the Auster. That's a
different type of 'antique flying' altogether - 160 hp in what's
essentially a Taylorcraft airframe! The Auster is at 1000 feet by the
time we reach the end of our 3500 foot runway - low climb speed with a
good rate of climb!

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.