COMPARE THIS ULTIMATE PANEL

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
cost.

http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG

If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
to know where you are, look at your map. If you want to know how far
you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.

If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
displays, why not just stay at the office.

Guy Byars

[Al[_7_]]

On Sep 12, 9:32*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

I see you have the Cosmiboy 5000 in there. AKA the pellet vario.

Al

[AndersP]

Guy Byars wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

I must admit that you have a point with that way of reasoning. Sometimes
you wander why you have so many things in the cockpit that almost
require a masters degree to operate.

When our club switched the old paper barographs and cameras to GPS
loggers everything was said to be much easier and therefore promote more
people flying XC-tasks.

Instead we have a situation with constant upgrades, modifications,
"enhancements" and what not.

A lot of talk about flying XC is now revolving around how to handle all
the gizmos we bring with us in order to "help".

I have a Cambrige 302 and HP Ipaq with See You Mobile in my LS6-b and
even this pretty basic (nowadays) setup is driving me crazy sometimes.

/Anders

[JJ Sinclair]

Ah, the good old days! Wondering where I was, wondering how far it
was to the nearest landable field, wondering how much altitude it
would take to get there?................Now days all I have to do is
'wonder' where the lift is? Can some computer wiz please solve this
final remaining problem?
JJ

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

On Sep 13, 8:25*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> Ah, the good old days! *

> Wondering where I was,

Look out the window, then look at your map.


> wondering how far it was to the nearest landable field,

Again, look out the window...


> wondering how much altitude it would take to get there?

Again look out the window, though at an L/D of 20:1, the altiude
estimate is pretty easy.


> Now days all I have to do is 'wonder' where the lift is? *

Looking out the window should give you a clue.


Collision avoidance system?

Look out the window.


I like the simplicity of the pellet variometer, though I do confess I
miss total energy.

Guy Byars

[Tim Mara[_2_]]

I have to agree with this philosophy to a large degree...the only
instruments that are always reliable (nearly always) and the only ones that
don't take massive amounts of time, effort, and usual frustrations are the
mechanical devices...they've been working pretty reliable since Glen Curtis
and the Wright Brothers were in competition. Though everyone who's designing
and promoting glass displays is trying to add the features already reliably
covered by the mechanical instruments....there is something about the way
mechanical instruments display that is more the way we perceptively feel
what the aircraft is doing.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Guy Byars" > wrote in message
...
>
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

[brianDG303[_2_]]

On Sep 13, 7:08*am, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> I have to agree with this philosophy to a large degree...the only
> instruments that are always reliable (nearly always) and the only ones that
> don't take massive amounts of time, effort, and usual frustrations are the
> mechanical devices...they've been working pretty reliable since Glen Curtis
> and the Wright Brothers were in competition. Though everyone who's designing
> and promoting glass displays is trying to add the *features already reliably
> covered by the mechanical instruments....there is something about the way
> mechanical instruments display that is more the way we perceptively feel
> what the aircraft is doing.
> tim
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>
> "Guy Byars" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> > power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> > cost.
>
> >http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> > If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> > to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> > you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> > If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> > displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> > Guy Byars- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tim,
the situation is a little different for those of us new to the sport;
an audio vario and a PNA set up with a very simple screen can get us
farther away, safer, sooner than messing with a chart and a scale
while learning how to thermal.

The combination of an IPAQ 310 with a simple SYM screen is pretty
simple to use, readable 95% of the time, and distracts very little
while giving you an accurate idea of what you can make and what you
can't. Not that expensive either.

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

-
> sooner than messing with a chart and a scale while learning how to thermal.
>

I submit to you that more "messing" has been done with gps's and PDA
hardware/software in flight than has EVER been done with charts and
scales.

[Andy[_10_]]

On Sep 13, 8:34*am, Guy Byars > wrote:
> -
>
> > *sooner than messing with a chart and a scale while learning how to thermal.
>
> I submit to you that more "messing" has been done with gps's and PDA
> hardware/software in flight than has EVER been done with charts and
> scales.

I never had to re-boot my sectional.

That said - I do like being able to dial up alternates when I'm flying
over tiger country.

9B

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Sep 13, 10:34*am, Guy Byars > wrote:
> -
>
> > *sooner than messing with a chart and a scale while learning how to thermal.
>
> I submit to you that more "messing" has been done with gps's and PDA
> hardware/software in flight than has EVER been done with charts and
> scales.

Have to disagree with you there a bit, Guy. A PDA/GPS moving map is
fundamentally just a chart that knows where you are - so you don't
have to find it in the cockpit, refold it, orient it, then look back
and forth from the ground to the chart trying to convince yourself
which town you are over. Used correctly (like any tool , including a
chart) it shouldn't take much time away from your lookout, and should
actually be much faster than a chart, especially over new terrain (as
in at a contest on on a safari). Used incorrectly, I do agree that
all the cockpit magic and blue smoke can become a terrible
distraction.

We went through the same learning process when fighters (F-4s in my
case) were modernized with reliable, accurate navigation equipment,
way back in the 80s - it took a while to learn NOT to use all the
magic, but instead to just use what was needed. Always fun to pull up
on a guy after an unobserved Fox 2 and see both pilot and WSO heads
down trying to figure out what the ones and zeros were telling them!
Nowadays, if the magic doesn't work, you don't go (you might drop a
smart weapon on the CNN van - the one parked between the orphanage and
the nunnery - instead of the bad guy's bomb factory).

Same applies to current glider nav computers - just because it can
tell you something, doesn't mean you really need to know it in real
time. I'm amazed by the amount of (to me, at least) unimportant info
most people cram on their little PDA displays! I'm down to just a
simple map (no terrain unless on ridges), airports with L/D needed,
course line (if on a task), track line, and winds on my primary SYM
map - all that I need to navigate at a glance and spend more time
"looking out the window"!

I will admit to the guilty pleasure of taking up a nice K-13 or sports
canopy 1-26 with nothing really working but the airspeed indicator and
flying by the seat of the pants, to coin a phrase...

Cheers!

Kirk
66

[Eric Greenwell]

Guy Byars wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map.

Apparently, I'm buying my maps at the wrong store: my paper maps show
where everything is EXCEPT me! Bummer. Where do you get paper maps that
show where YOU are?

> If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.

Did that for 20 years, and it sucks. And by that I mean it's inaccurate
(see above comment), it's slow, it's awkward, and I still don't know how
much altitude I need, which is what I REALLY want to know. Doesn't show
me runway width, either, and don't get me started on how "great" a paper
map is for avoiding airspace incursions.

> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.

If you are messing with those things in flight, you're doing it wrong. I
"mess" with the map on the computer, not the computer. The computer
handles the real "messing" by measuring the distances and calculating
the altitude required so I don't have to.

Here's a feature not available on the paper maps at all. In the olden
days, I'd mark about 20 or so uncharted strips, and 20 or so good fields
on my map. When I bought a new map, I'd have to laboriously copy them to
the new map. And, I still didn't have the elevation or any comments
about the landing place. With my PDA, it's just a separate file that
gets loaded in whenever I load a new map database, no effort on my part.
Also, the file is easy to keep up to date as the duster strips and
landout fields change, plus it has comments about the place.

Go back to paper maps? I think I'd rather drop a wing tip during assembly!

This was a troll, right? Kinda early for winter cabin fever...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Guy Byars wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG

Mine's been just like that since the late 1980's...except my vario is
round instead of straight, and, cuz my panel is marginally larger I have
some empty holes in it through which can be glimpsed unused wires from
an earlier age.
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.

"Roger all that!" My sectionals have 10 mile circles around my
'outs'...works over Tiger Country, too. In some places circle radii
reach 30 mi. before overlapping.

Earlier this year my Schuemann Box died between flights (unbeknownst to
me until the next takeoff), so no mechanical vario, and couldn't locate
my (borrowed from wife) backup Malletec during the flight. Too cheap to
intentionally relight, rust and fear limited my butt-vario to a wimp
300K. With proper motivation, the day's misadventures might make a
"Soaring"-worthy short story...

>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

Point taken, though my today's office precludes computer use; RAS tends
to be it anymore!

Regards,
Bob - prediluvian - W.

[T8]

On Sep 13, 12:32*am, Guy Byars > wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

Only thing wrong with that glider is that it is too clean! Someone
needs to go fly it!

Cool project... and it deserves better exposure, so here's the link
you didn't include http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20

The guy that taught me to fly -- Dave Welles -- flew a gold distance
flight in a 1-20. Must have been an epic.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[JJ Sinclair]

Point well taken, Guy! I'm against these fancy new automatic control
hook-ups, also. If your not using a claw hammer and vice grips to
assemble your bird, your not engaging in the true spirit of the event.
I especially like hooking up (and safety'ing) control cables and
torquing wing pins......................puts me in the true spirit of
soaring.
Cheers,
JJ

[jb92563]

How can you see ANY of those instruments when you are unfolding a Map
in the cockpit of a glider like that?

I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
when I land.

They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.

If you have systems that need interaction then I agree, you are
spoiling your flying by having to mess with gadgets and focus inside
the cockpit.

I still have paper maps as a backup, but those need fussing with as
well when unfolding/folding and trying to find things.

My particular setup is interaction free, leaving me free to focus on
the visual and seat of the pants aspects of flying.

If I'm not paying attention to something important the gizmo beeps to
let me know I need to take a quick glance at it.

Setups are completed entirely at home in the livingroom, with a
computer degree of course ;-)

Ray




On Sep 12, 9:32*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

[jb92563]

How can you see ANY of those instruments when you are unfolding a Map
in the cockpit of a glider like that?

I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
when I land.


They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.


If you have systems that need interaction then I agree, you are
spoiling your flying by having to mess with gadgets and focus inside
the cockpit.


I still have paper maps as a backup, but those need fussing with as
well when unfolding/folding and trying to find things.


My particular setup is interaction free, leaving me free to focus on
the visual and seat of the pants aspects of flying.


If I'm not paying attention to something important the gizmo beeps to
let me know I need to take a quick glance at it.


Setups are completed entirely at home in the livingroom, with a
computer degree of course ;-)


Ray

iPAQ 310 & XCSoar



On Sep 12, 9:32*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

One trick is to cut off the parts of the map you don't intend to use.
This gets it down to a reasonable size with one or two folds at most. You
can put the legend in the side pocket in case you need it and in case you
might be charged with not having a current sectional (expriation date
printed right there.)

At 18:55 14 September 2009, jb92563 wrote:
>How can you see ANY of those instruments when you are unfolding a Map
>in the cockpit of a glider like that?
>
>I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
>when I land.
>
>They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
>points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.
>
>If you have systems that need interaction then I agree, you are
>spoiling your flying by having to mess with gadgets and focus inside
>the cockpit.
>
>I still have paper maps as a backup, but those need fussing with as
>well when unfolding/folding and trying to find things.
>
>My particular setup is interaction free, leaving me free to focus on
>the visual and seat of the pants aspects of flying.
>
>If I'm not paying attention to something important the gizmo beeps to
>let me know I need to take a quick glance at it.
>
>Setups are completed entirely at home in the livingroom, with a
>computer degree of course ;-)
>
>Ray
>
>
>
>
>On Sep 12, 9:32=A0pm, Guy Byars wrote:
>> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
>> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
>> cost.
>>
>> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>>
>> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. =A0If you
want
>> to know where you are, look at your map. =A0If you want to know how
far
>> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>>
>> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
>> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>>
>> Guy Byars
>
>

[vontresc]

On Sep 14, 2:30*pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> One trick is to cut off the parts of the map you don't intend to use.
> This gets it down to a reasonable size with one or two folds at most. *You
> can put the legend in the side pocket in case you need it and in case you
> might be charged with not having a current sectional (expriation date
> printed right there.)
>
> At 18:55 14 September 2009, jb92563 wrote:
>
>
>
> >How can you see ANY of those instruments when you are unfolding a Map
> >in the cockpit of a glider like that?
>
> >I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
> >when I land.
>
> >They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
> >points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.
>
> >If you have systems that need interaction then I agree, you are
> >spoiling your flying by having to mess with gadgets and focus inside
> >the cockpit.
>
> >I still have paper maps as a backup, but those need fussing with as
> >well when unfolding/folding and trying to find things.
>
> >My particular setup is interaction free, leaving me free to focus on
> >the visual and seat of the pants aspects of flying.
>
> >If I'm not paying attention to something important the gizmo beeps to
> >let me know I need to take a quick glance at it.
>
> >Setups are completed entirely at home in the livingroom, with a
> >computer degree of course ;-)
>
> >Ray
>
> >On Sep 12, 9:32=A0pm, Guy Byars *wrote:
> >> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> >> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> >> cost.
>
> >>http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> >> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. =A0If you
> want
> >> to know where you are, look at your map. =A0If you want to know how
> far
> >> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> >> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> >> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> >> Guy Byars- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Besides there is good reason sectionals expire every six months. If
you fold them the way I do, you're lucky if they last that long :-)

Pete

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

One trick is to cut off the parts of the map you don't intend to use.
This gets it down to a reasonable size with one or two folds at most. You
can put the legend in the side pocket in case you need it and in case you
might be charged with not having a current sectional (expriation date
printed right there.)

At 18:55 14 September 2009, jb92563 wrote:
>How can you see ANY of those instruments when you are unfolding a Map
>in the cockpit of a glider like that?
>
>I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
>when I land.
>
>They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
>points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.
>
>If you have systems that need interaction then I agree, you are
>spoiling your flying by having to mess with gadgets and focus inside
>the cockpit.
>
>I still have paper maps as a backup, but those need fussing with as
>well when unfolding/folding and trying to find things.
>
>My particular setup is interaction free, leaving me free to focus on
>the visual and seat of the pants aspects of flying.
>
>If I'm not paying attention to something important the gizmo beeps to
>let me know I need to take a quick glance at it.
>
>Setups are completed entirely at home in the livingroom, with a
>computer degree of course ;-)
>
>Ray
>
>
>
>
>On Sep 12, 9:32=A0pm, Guy Byars wrote:
>> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
>> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
>> cost.
>>
>> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>>
>> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. =A0If you
want
>> to know where you are, look at your map. =A0If you want to know how
far
>> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>>
>> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
>> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>>
>> Guy Byars
>
>

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

>
> I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
> when I land.
> They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
> points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.

Then you are in the minority.

I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. I can imagine
every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
the new task.

[Eric Greenwell]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> One trick is to cut off the parts of the map you don't intend to use.
> This gets it down to a reasonable size with one or two folds at most. You
> can put the legend in the side pocket in case you need it and in case you
> might be charged with not having a current sectional (expriation date
> printed right there.)

I have the opposite problem: one map doesn't have all the places I might
go to, so I have to carry four maps. It used to be ugly in the cockpit
when I was flying near the SE corner of the Seattle sectional! Another
advantage of a moving map display.

I do enjoy poring over sectionals at home, but not in the cockpit.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Eric Greenwell]

> On Sep 13, 12:32 am, Guy Byars > wrote:
>> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
>> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
>> cost.
>>
>> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>>
>> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. If you want
>> to know where you are, look at your map. If you want to know how far
>> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.

The lower the glider performance, the slower the situation changes, and
the less you need to navigate. The less you need navigate, the less you
need to refer to your map.

The lower the glider performance, the shorter the distance you have to
measure on the map. A 6" ruler (40 NM) is plenty long enough for you,
but often, my intended airport is much farther away than that, so I'd be
trying to use a 12" ruler.

A paper map in a big, slow cockpit is quite adequate, but it's a serious
distraction in the typical high performance glider.

Not that there is anything wrong with a big, slow cockpit...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Ramy]

On Sep 14, 1:16*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
> > I just turn my "Devices" on at the beginning of the flight and off
> > when I land.
> > They provide information as I fly, moving map, Airspace, landable
> > points within glide range, at a glance, but require no interaction.
>
> Then you are in the minority.
>
> I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
> CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. *I can imagine
> every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
> glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
> the new task.

Moving map flight computers are one of the most important instruments
for flying XC in a high performance ship in the Great Basin,
especially if you are a serious XC pilot who would like to fly further
from home over new territory. The sectionals stay folded in the glider
pocket all year long, completely useless. And if my PDA malfunction, I
have a moving map sectional on my iphone. Pricelss.
And much less time is spent looking on a PDA then messing up with a
sectional in the cockpit.

Guy, none of your suggestions will work were I fly. But I agree that
flight computers took away the challenge of navigation, so we can
spend more brain power on finding lift.

Ramy

[John Scott[_2_]]

I fly with all the gadgets. I do the setup at home and also only need to
turn them on at the before the flight and off afterwards. I use SYM and
have the screens set. The only fiddling I do in flight is to switch between
the 4 screens a simply button push and possibly select a new destination. I
don't fly competetion so I don't care about the CD chaning tasks.

I do carry sectionals as a backup. I used Glideplan and download my
sectionals from the site. I print out the legend on an 8.5x11 sheet so I am
legal. I also print out the contact information for all of the "areas" on
the sectional so I have that with me as well. I then select the section of
the sectional I want. I plot any task I want along with the distance
circles. I then have Glideplane paginate the desired area with 10% page
overall, page pointers so I know which page is to the right.left/above/below
the one I'm looking at. I generally print the sectionals at a 150% scaling
factor. I now have a set of 8.5x11 pages.

I go to Office Depot and buy what is called a "Presentaion Book". This is a
set of bound clear plastic pockets into which you can insert the 8.5x11
sheets you printed from Glide Plan. They come with varying numbers of
pages. I usually get the higher page count ones and then after removing the
cover (hard plastic which keeps the pages from being folded over/behind each
other) I cut the pages down the spine which yields 2 sets of bound pockets.
I insert 2 pages in each pocket, back to back. I have differnet books for
different airports or tasks. I stick them along my left thigh, just in
case. I can then pull them out, turn to the appropriate page and look at
the map. I only have to deal with 8.5x11 in the cockpit; nothing gets out of
hand; no refolding.

After an out landing this summer where I couldn't find the airport I was
looking for, I've taken to using Google earth to locate the airports and
print out the overhead pictures of the airport. I arrange these 4 to a page
using some drawing software. These go into a pocket with the appropriate
maps. Now I can see what the airport and surrounding area should look like
then look out the window until I see something similar.

John

[[email protected][_2_]]

>Then you are in the minority.
>
Probably has a high correlation with the age (and occupation) of the
pilot in question. I'm not a youngster, but have been around hi-tech
cockpits a long time and love them. Kids grow up with the damn things
and have no problem with them. But some of the "more mature" aviators
out there tend to have some issues with the fancy toys....those are
the gliders I try to avoid in a crowded thermal!

> I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
> CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. *I can imagine
> every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
> glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
> the new task.

On this point I absolutely agree with you - changing tasks after the
launch is incredibly dangerous! Even with pre-announced backup tasks,
setting up some systems during the prestart milling (usually on a weak
day, otherwise why change the task?) takes a lot of heads down time in
crowded airspace. But I bet it was just as bad in the days of charts,
grease pencils, compass headings, and photo books!

Cheers,

Kirk
66

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

On Sep 14, 6:08*pm, Ramy > wrote:
>
> Guy, none of your suggestions will work were I fly.

Actually, I wasn't making any serious suggestions. I was just poking
some fun at the big screen flight instrurment manufacturers. I was
also poking fun at the techophiles who treat a soaring flight as an
excuse to play with their computers and gadgets, and not the beautiful
and relaxing experience it should be.

Guy Byars

[bildan]

On Sep 14, 6:22*pm, " >
wrote:
> >Then you are in the minority.
>
> Probably has a high correlation with the age (and occupation) of the
> pilot in question. *I'm not a youngster, but have been around hi-tech
> cockpits a long time and love them. *Kids grow up with the damn things
> and have no problem with them. *But some of the "more mature" aviators
> out there tend to have some issues with the fancy toys....those are
> the gliders I try to avoid in a crowded thermal!
>
> > I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
> > CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. *I can imagine
> > every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
> > glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
> > the new task.
>
> On this point I absolutely agree with you - changing tasks after the
> launch is incredibly dangerous! *Even with pre-announced backup tasks,
> setting up some systems during the prestart milling (usually on a weak
> day, otherwise why change the task?) takes a lot of heads down time in
> crowded airspace. But I bet it was just as bad in the days of charts,
> grease pencils, compass headings, and photo books!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kirk
> 66

In flight task changes do seem extraordinarily dangerous.

Despite the anti-tech sentiments, this could be an application for
long range WiFi. It seems the latest incarnations of the 802.11n
standards allow ranges in excess of 5 miles.

Imagine glide computers which could be updated in flight from the
ground by the CD to enter a new task in everyone's computer
simultaneously and then automatically poll them to assure accuracy.

The pilots wouldn't have to do anything except fly the new task.

[Herbert Kilian]

On Sep 12, 11:32*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
> The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> cost.
>
> http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> Guy Byars

Guy
Didn't know your worldview includes that of a Maschinenstuermer! When
are we going to hear from you about the dangers of mechanical looms
and steam engines?!
Herb, J7

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 1:59*pm, Herbert Kilian > wrote:
> On Sep 12, 11:32*pm, Guy Byars > wrote:
>
> > The panel in my glider is the ultimate in sunlight readability, low
> > power consumption, ease of use, low maintenance, low clutter and low
> > cost.
>
> >http://www.gfbyars.com/SGU1-20/final/P1010425.JPG
>
> > If you want to see terrain features, look out the window. *If you want
> > to know where you are, look at your map. *If you want to know how far
> > you are from the turnpoint, put your ruler on the map and measure.
>
> > If you want to mess with computers, USB input devices and VGA
> > displays, why not just stay at the office.
>
> > Guy Byars
>
> Guy
> Didn't know your worldview includes that of a Maschinenstuermer! *When
> are we going to hear from you about the dangers of mechanical looms
> and steam engines?!
> Herb, J7

GFB has a very good point.
Earlier this year I had a pretty much complete electrical system
failure on course. After switching to backup logger battery to keep
flight alive, I flew the rest of the flight the old fashioned way. A
while later, something seemed really strange. I realized how pleasant
the flight was when I wasn't paying attention to radios, vario
nagging, and all that other stuff. I was just flying the glider and
enjoying the sky.
What a concept!
UH

[rlovinggood]

> GFB has a very good point.
> Earlier this year I had a pretty much complete electrical system
> failure on course. After switching to backup logger battery to keep
> flight alive, I flew the rest of the flight the old fashioned way. A
> while later, something seemed really strange. I realized how pleasant
> the flight was when I wasn't paying attention to radios, vario
> nagging, and all that other stuff. I was just flying the glider and
> enjoying the sky.
> What a concept!
> UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

UH, where did you end up on the score sheet that day?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina
Always with folded chart at hand in cockpit

[rlovinggood]

> GFB has a very good point.
> Earlier this year I had a pretty much complete electrical system
> failure on course. After switching to backup logger battery to keep
> flight alive, I flew the rest of the flight the old fashioned way. A
> while later, something seemed really strange. I realized how pleasant
> the flight was when I wasn't paying attention to radios, vario
> nagging, and all that other stuff. I was just flying the glider and
> enjoying the sky.
> What a concept!
> UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

UH, Part B of my question is: What caused the electrical failure?

Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina
With two 12 amp/hour batteries secured in the glider (or are they
slightly larger?)

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Ray, I'll tell you about my complete electrical failure last week. I have
genuine aviation screw-base connectors at my battery; I plugged the battery
in, forgot to screw it down, and half-way around the course I kicked it
loose while pedalling around in a thermal. (Part of some new strategy I
learned from Carl Herrold, but don't tell him.)



At 20:08 15 September 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>
>> GFB has a very good point.
>> Earlier this year I had a pretty much complete electrical system
>> failure on course. After switching to backup logger battery to keep
>> flight alive, I flew the rest of the flight the old fashioned way. A
>> while later, something seemed really strange. I realized how pleasant
>> the flight was when I wasn't paying attention to radios, vario
>> nagging, and all that other stuff. I was just flying the glider and
>> enjoying the sky.
>> What a concept!
>> UH- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>UH, Part B of my question is: What caused the electrical failure?
>
>Thanks,
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina
>With two 12 amp/hour batteries secured in the glider (or are they
>slightly larger?)
>

[ContestID67[_2_]]

While the panel is a minimalist thing of beauty - do you live at sea
level? I ask this because your altimeter is set at zero. Tsk...Tsk...

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 4:08*pm, rlovinggood > wrote:
> > GFB has a very good point.
> > Earlier this year I had a pretty much complete electrical system
> > failure on course. After switching to backup logger battery to keep
> > flight alive, I flew the rest of the flight the old fashioned way. A
> > while later, something seemed really strange. I realized how pleasant
> > the flight was when I wasn't paying attention to radios, vario
> > nagging, and all that other stuff. I was just flying the glider and
> > enjoying the sky.
> > What a concept!
> > UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> UH, Part B of my question is: *What caused the electrical failure?
>
> Thanks,
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina
> With two 12 amp/hour batteries secured in the glider (or are they
> slightly larger?)

Q1-Second for the day by about 25 pts to KS. Don't need no stinkin'
computer. Audio just confirms what butt already knows.
Q2-Connector short in a variometer took out one panel fuse. Second
went a few minute after battery connected. Yes- vario now seperately
fused.
Pays to have completely independant battery for one logger as last
resort.
UH

[rlovinggood]

> Q1-Second for the day by about 25 pts to KS. Don't need no stinkin'
> computer. Audio just confirms what butt already knows.
> Q2-Connector short in a variometer took out one panel fuse. *Second
> went a few minute after battery connected. *Yes- vario now seperately
> fused.
> Pays to have completely independant battery for one logger as last
> resort.
> UH

Well done!

Ray

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
>,
Guy Byars > wrote:


> I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
> CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. I can imagine
> every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
> glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
> the new task.

Oooh! Man, I hate having to enter a new task in flight. Very scary.
Somewhat better if a dump or alternate task is agreed upon before launch
so it can be pre-loaded into the computer. That has it's risks as well.
At a recent race, I forgot to switch back to the primary task after
entering the alternate. I was half way around the course when I realized
I was flying the alternate task. It was a little late by then to
re-start, so I just went on to the primary task first turnpoint and flew
the correct task. Made for a long, strange looking first leg on the
flight trace!

[Jim White[_3_]]

At 20:16 14 September 2009, Guy Byars wrote:
>I think the most dangerous time during a soaring contest is when the
>CD changes the task after all the pilots have launched. I can imagine
>every pilot in the contest flying blindly with his head down, and eyes
>glued to a computer as he scrolls and pokes the screen trying to enter
>the new task.
>
For this very reason, in UK comps CD can only change tasks on the ground
and with 10min notice before launching if task is previously briefed and
20 mins if new. The idea that 50 pilots would be entering a new task into
their computers in the air prior to the start is horrifying!

Jim

[Nick S]

Ok, so this has sparked a curiosity for me. Who has a list of WAGs
(Mental math calculations) that can be used in the cockpit for glide
distances with wind and such? Is there a resource right now listing
them? Obviously I know it depends on glider performance, but what are
some starting points?

-Nick S

[mattm[_2_]]

On Sep 16, 8:46*am, Nick S > wrote:
> Ok, so this has sparked a curiosity for me. Who has a list of WAGs
> (Mental math calculations) that can be used in the cockpit for glide
> distances with wind and such? Is there a resource right now listing
> them? Obviously I know it depends on glider performance, but what are
> some starting points?
>
> -Nick S

I like to keep a simplified whiz wheel in my cockpit in case of gadget
failure (I have flown cross country with them). You can construct one
with great ease by getting your favorite computer graphing program
(such as Excel) to print a chart with logarithmic scales. Make one
with suitable distance numbers (e.g. 2-60 for miles or 3-120 for km)
and another with corresponding alititudes (e.g. 200-6000 feet or
100-4000m).
The trick is to get the scales the same length and to get the ratio
between
the low and high numbers the same. Cut them out and paste them to
some lightweight cardboard (a manila folder works great) and hold them
together with a paper clip. Scribble some notes as to what your
best speed and resulting glide ratios at various MC settings on the
contraption and you're all set. If you want to get fancy you can
paste
the distance ruler from your chart onto the thing and use it as a
chart
ruler.

-- Matt

[mattm[_2_]]

On Sep 16, 11:44*am, mattm > wrote:
> On Sep 16, 8:46*am, Nick S > wrote:
>
> > Ok, so this has sparked a curiosity for me. Who has a list of WAGs
> > (Mental math calculations) that can be used in the cockpit for glide
> > distances with wind and such? Is there a resource right now listing
> > them? Obviously I know it depends on glider performance, but what are
> > some starting points?
>
> > -Nick S
>
> I like to keep a simplified whiz wheel in my cockpit in case of gadget
> failure (I have flown cross country with them). *You can construct one
> with great ease by getting your favorite computer graphing program
> (such as Excel) to print a chart with logarithmic scales. *Make one
> with suitable distance numbers (e.g. 2-60 for miles or 3-120 for km)
> and another with corresponding alititudes (e.g. 200-6000 feet or
> 100-4000m).
> The trick is to get the scales the same length and to get the ratio
> between
> the low and high numbers the same. *Cut them out and paste them to
> some lightweight cardboard (a manila folder works great) and hold them
> together with a paper clip. *Scribble some notes as to what your
> best speed and resulting glide ratios at various MC settings on the
> contraption and you're all set. *If you want to get fancy you can
> paste
> the distance ruler from your chart onto the thing and use it as a
> chart
> ruler.
>
> -- Matt

I forgot to add: in order to use it, put a mark on the altitude scale
that corresponds to the "1" unit on the distance scale (e.g. mark
5280 feet if you're using statute miles or 1000m if using km). To
set the contraption to a particular MC setting line up the mark
with the glide ratio from your table. Read your required altitude
directly by looking next to the distance you have to fly. If you have
a headwind or tailwind you can fudge a few points in the right
direction using the basic (S-H)/S ratio. E.g. at MC=2 you have
a best speed of 60 kts and a glide ratio of 30 (I'm picking a
medium performance plane to make it easy). With a 10kt
headwind you only get 5/6 the performance, so use 25 for
your glide ratio.

When I was a student pilot a long time ago everyone used fancy
whiz wheels because GPS hadn't (quite) arrived. My textbook
had a picture of a whiz wheel, so I applied my programmer/math
geek mind to the issue for a while and eventually programmed
a whiz wheel I could print on my laser printer. When I started
flying more that just a couple of miles from the airport I found
out how easy the thing was to use. Unfortunately my program
is lost (last version I had was on a diskette that my computer
wouldn't read) so I've just gone for the easy design.

-- Matt

[Larry Goddard]

Here's an easy approximation... 40:1 glider

Lay your hand on the sectional.

Measure the distance with your finger width.

Each finger width = 1000' of altitude required -- ie, 3 fingers = 3000'
required

(Obvious caveats such as glider performance, width of fingers, etc.)

Larry




"Nick S" > wrote in message
:

> Ok, so this has sparked a curiosity for me. Who has a list of WAGs
> (Mental math calculations) that can be used in the cockpit for glide
> distances with wind and such? Is there a resource right now listing
> them? Obviously I know it depends on glider performance, but what are
> some starting points?
>
> -Nick S