Silicon free polishes?

[Bernie[_4_]]

Hello folks,
it's annual time and we plan to give our LS1-f a bit of a buff and
polish. A product called NuFinish was recommended, however a quick
Google search finds that it contains silicon and I understand that
this is not a good thing should any future repairs be required. Is
this correct, or is silicon getting a bad rap?

Our club has used a Meguiars marine product called M4516 High Gloss
Polish, I am led to believe that this contains no silicon but have yet
to confirm that.
See
http://www.meguiars.com.au/productdetail_2006.php?seq=9&category=SPECIALTY&subcat=Marine%20Care&subsubcat=Polish%20and%20Protect&show=3

Can anyone speak with authority on this subject? Any other products
that I should know about? The gel coat is in good condition, it was
machine buffed last year and shows little if any oxidisation to my
untrained eye. I imagine a quick polish followed by a wax would be
sufficient, so the Meguiars marine products are looking good:
http://www.meguiars.com.au/product_2006.php?category=SPECIALTY&subcat=Marine
Care&subsubcat=Polish

Thanks, Bernie.

PS: I'm in Australia where car care products like NuFinish and
Meguiars are readily available, but WxBlock is NOT!

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sep 26, 6:56*pm, Bernie > wrote:
> Hello folks,
> it's annual time and we plan to give our LS1-f a bit of a buff and
> polish. A product called NuFinish was recommended, however a quick
> Google search finds that it contains silicon and I understand that
> this is not a good thing should any future repairs be required. Is
> this correct, or is silicon getting a bad rap?
>
> Our club has used a Meguiars marine product called M4516 High Gloss
> Polish, I am led to believe that this contains no silicon but have yet
> to confirm that.
> Seehttp://www.meguiars.com.au/productdetail_2006.php?seq=9&category=SPEC...
>
> Can anyone speak with authority on this subject? Any other products
> that I should know about? The gel coat is in good condition, it was
> machine buffed last year and shows little if any oxidisation to my
> untrained eye. I imagine a quick polish followed by a wax would be
> sufficient, so the Meguiars marine products are looking good:http://www.meguiars.com.au/product_2006.php?category=SPECIALTY&subcat...
> Care&subsubcat=Polish
>
> Thanks, Bernie.
>
> PS: *I'm in Australia where car care products like NuFinish and
> Meguiars are readily available, but WxBlock is NOT!

Williams Soaring has turned a lot of us local pilots onto Mequiars
Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax. This wax is extremely easy to buff
off, even smells nice. WxBlock in comparison is a lot more work to get
off. The idea is Mequiars Deep Crystal is so little work to buff of
compared to other waxes you are more likely to apply it regularly.
Prior to Mequiars I was using Griot's Garage Best of Show Carnuba Wax,
it is probably the best looking pure Carnuba wax I know of (I've used
it on my Porsche a lot, but switched to Mequiars for that as well) but
is a lot more work to buff off.

As for silicones, modern paints and additives make this less of a
hassle. While I try to avoid silicone products on my glider finish (PU
on my ASH-26E) it is pretty unavoidable and any refinisher is going to
have to assume the existing finish is contaminated with silicone.
Still I avoid polishes that are blatantly full of silicone.

BTW the canopy cleaners like Plexus, Brillianize, Pledge (or Mr. Sheen
to you folks down under) are loaded with silicone and just spraying
that stuff on the canopy is going to leave silicon droplets all over
the glider. Using a rag you wipe that stuff on a canopy with to wipe
the glider finish is going to leave it all over the glider. It is
insidious stuff. But like I said refinishers have little choice but to
assume it is everywhere and do surface prep accordingly. (If you
really want to **** a refinisher off go spray some of that stuff in
their shop near a job being prepared for spraying).

Darryl

[Tom[_9_]]

Many years ago, we contacted a company called "Mothers" about a
product they advertised as "Pure carnuba wax." When we opened the can,
it was soft, and they confirmed it was loaded with silicone and
polymers, but the wax was indeed 100% carnuba.

We explained our needs and some time later, they contacted us with the
news they were now making a product that fits our needs.

It is indeed 100% pure carnuba wax, with a very small amount of non-
harmful polymer to allow it to be applied by hand or machine.

You can purchase it from our web site for $22.95. www.eglider.org

I am convinced waxing your glider is extremely important to protect
the surface. We do our Duo Discus by hand twice a year.

This product may be sold by your local gliderport, and we urge you to
support your local gliderport whenever possible during these
difficult financial times.

Tom Knauff

[Bob]

For the record, when applied correctly Wx/Block is the easiest of all
products to buff out and remove. The gloss level is not dependent on
applying more "elbow grease" i.e., rubbing harder. Wx/Block contains
no silcone and has the highest level of UV inhibition of any wax
prodcut on the market. Carnuba-based products will create a gloss, but
contain virtually no UV inhibitors.

Bob Lacovara
Wx/Block


> Williams Soaring has turned a lot of us local pilots onto Mequiars
> Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax. This wax is extremely easy to buff
> off, even smells nice. WxBlock in comparison is a lot more work to get
> off.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sep 26, 7:32*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Sep 26, 6:56*pm, Bernie > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello folks,
> > it's annual time and we plan to give our LS1-f a bit of a buff and
> > polish. A product called NuFinish was recommended, however a quick
> > Google search finds that it contains silicon and I understand that
> > this is not a good thing should any future repairs be required. Is
> > this correct, or is silicon getting a bad rap?
>
> > Our club has used a Meguiars marine product called M4516 High Gloss
> > Polish, I am led to believe that this contains no silicon but have yet
> > to confirm that.
> > Seehttp://www.meguiars.com.au/productdetail_2006.php?seq=9&category=SPEC...
>
> > Can anyone speak with authority on this subject? Any other products
> > that I should know about? The gel coat is in good condition, it was
> > machine buffed last year and shows little if any oxidisation to my
> > untrained eye. I imagine a quick polish followed by a wax would be
> > sufficient, so the Meguiars marine products are looking good:http://www..meguiars.com.au/product_2006.php?category=SPECIALTY&subcat...
> > Care&subsubcat=Polish
>
> > Thanks, Bernie.
>
> > PS: *I'm in Australia where car care products like NuFinish and
> > Meguiars are readily available, but WxBlock is NOT!
>
> Williams Soaring has turned a lot of us local pilots onto Mequiars
> Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax. This wax is extremely easy to buff
> off, even smells nice. WxBlock in comparison is a lot more work to get
> off. The idea is Mequiars Deep Crystal is so little work to buff of
> compared to other waxes you are more likely to apply it regularly.
> Prior to Mequiars I was using Griot's Garage Best of Show Carnuba Wax,
> it is probably the best looking pure Carnuba wax I know of (I've used
> it on my Porsche a lot, but switched to Mequiars for that as well) but
> is a lot more work to buff off.
>
> As for silicones, modern paints and additives make this less of a
> hassle. While I try to avoid silicone products on my glider finish (PU
> on my ASH-26E) it is pretty unavoidable and any refinisher is going to
> have to assume the existing finish is contaminated with silicone.
> Still I avoid polishes that are blatantly full of silicone.
>
> BTW the canopy cleaners like Plexus, Brillianize, Pledge (or Mr. Sheen
> to you folks down under) are loaded with silicone and just spraying
> that stuff on the canopy is going to leave silicon droplets all over
> the glider. Using a rag you wipe that stuff on a canopy with to wipe
> the glider finish is going to leave it all over the glider. It is
> insidious stuff. But like I said refinishers have little choice but to
> assume it is everywhere and do surface prep accordingly. (If you
> really want to **** a refinisher off go spray some of that stuff in
> their shop near a job being prepared for spraying).
>
> Darryl

BTW a clarification Mequiars Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax does
appear to contain silcione (http://www.householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/
cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=13006001&query=deep
+crystal&searchas=TblBrands). That may help in how relatively easy it
is to buff out (I mean wipe off once dry, no really buffing). Still
lots of people using it and no apparent refinish problems.

Darryl

[John Cochrane]

Starbrite Marine Polish with FTPE is very good. It's designed for gel
coat to be put in water (boat). It was recommended to me by Dave
Nelson after he did some refinishing work. Rub on, wipe off, shiny.
John Cochrane

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sep 27, 8:39*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> Starbrite Marine Polish with FTPE is very good. It's designed for gel
> coat to be put in water (boat). It was recommended to me by Dave
> Nelson after he did some refinishing work. Rub on, wipe off, shiny.
> John Cochrane

And from the MSDS (http://www.sunworld.net.au/starbrite/msds.html, I
could only find the OZ one) that also seems to contain silicone. Maybe
relaying as much that silicone worry is a non-issue if people who do
glider refinishing are happy to use it themselves as with the Star
Brite or the Mequiars wax. Still you won't see me cleaning bugs off my
glider with Pledge any time soon.

Presumably the Star Brite is really a polish not just a plain wax. But
maybe for use on gelcoat a bit if hand polish is a good thing.

Darryl

[Gilbert Smith]

Darryl Ramm > wrote:

>On Sep 27, 8:39*am, John Cochrane >
>wrote:
>> Starbrite Marine Polish with FTPE is very good. It's designed for gel
>> coat to be put in water (boat). It was recommended to me by Dave
>> Nelson after he did some refinishing work. Rub on, wipe off, shiny.
>> John Cochrane
>
>And from the MSDS (http://www.sunworld.net.au/starbrite/msds.html, I
>could only find the OZ one) that also seems to contain silicone. Maybe
>relaying as much that silicone worry is a non-issue if people who do
>glider refinishing are happy to use it themselves as with the Star
>Brite or the Mequiars wax. Still you won't see me cleaning bugs off my
>glider with Pledge any time soon.
>
>Presumably the Star Brite is really a polish not just a plain wax. But
>maybe for use on gelcoat a bit if hand polish is a good thing.
>
>Darryl

Maybe it has other brand names, but I use Carlack (or PolyLack because
it has a sailplane on the label). Easy to use and silicone free as far
as I know.

[Jp Mobo]

At 20:56 27 September 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
>Darryl Ramm wrote:
>
>>On Sep 27, 8:39*am, John Cochrane
>>wrote:
>>> Starbrite Marine Polish with FTPE is very good. It's designed for
gel
>>> coat to be put in water (boat). It was recommended to me by Dave
>>> Nelson after he did some refinishing work. Rub on, wipe off, shiny.
>>> John Cochrane
>>
>>And from the MSDS (http://www.sunworld.net.au/starbrite/msds.html, I
>>could only find the OZ one) that also seems to contain silicone. Maybe
>>relaying as much that silicone worry is a non-issue if people who do
>>glider refinishing are happy to use it themselves as with the Star
>>Brite or the Mequiars wax. Still you won't see me cleaning bugs off my
>>glider with Pledge any time soon.
>>
>>Presumably the Star Brite is really a polish not just a plain wax. But
>>maybe for use on gelcoat a bit if hand polish is a good thing.
>>
>>Darryl
>
>Maybe it has other brand names, but I use Carlack (or PolyLack because
>it has a sailplane on the label). Easy to use and silicone free as far
>as I know.


Carlack cuts a little while Polylack doesn't

descriptions from product search on this site:
http://www.afeonline.com/

(virus msg when trying to use tinyurl)

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sep 27, 1:56*pm, Gilbert Smith > wrote:
[snip]
> Maybe it has other brand names, but I use Carlack (or PolyLack because
> it has a sailplane on the label). Easy to use and silicone free as far
> as I know.

Well Polylack seems to claim no silicon and Carlack does contains
silicone at least that is clearly warned on the AFE Online web site.
So if that is what you are worried about which one of the two you use
seems to be pretty significant. So back to the argument of is really
an issue or not?...

Darryl

[Robert Gaines[_2_]]

Easy to use and silicone free as far
>>as I know.
>
>
> I would bet that repair shops clean, clean and grind all old areas back
to degree that there will be no problems with any product used on a
surface.
There are so many contaminants floating around that a repair shop must
go through a careful cleaning of the damaged area before any work is
started.
So, I doubt that it makes any difference as to the brand/type of polish
used.
Your opinion may vary.
Jump in.
Bob

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:34:39 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:

> On Sep 27, 1:56Â*pm, Gilbert Smith > wrote: [snip]
>> Maybe it has other brand names, but I use Carlack (or PolyLack because
>> it has a sailplane on the label). Easy to use and silicone free as far
>> as I know.
>
I use Mer 'Ultimate Car Polish', a UK product, on my airframe. Its MSDS
shows it to be non hazardous and doesn't list silicone, *but* their FAQ
says that their polish contains silicone and that all polishes contain it.

I also use Sparkle on my canopy. Its a US product and was apparently
developed during WW2 to clean B-29 canopies. I haven't found an MSDS but
they say the product contains only water, a mixture of glycols and a
purple tint.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sep 28, 5:26*am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:34:39 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > On Sep 27, 1:56*pm, Gilbert Smith > wrote: [snip]
> >> Maybe it has other brand names, but I use Carlack (or PolyLack because
> >> it has a sailplane on the label). Easy to use and silicone free as far
> >> as I know.
>
> I use Mer 'Ultimate Car Polish', a UK product, on my airframe. Its MSDS
> shows it to be non hazardous and doesn't list silicone, *but* their FAQ
> says that their polish contains silicone and that all polishes contain it..
>
> I also use Sparkle on my canopy. Its a US product and was apparently
> developed during WW2 to clean B-29 canopies. I haven't found an MSDS but
> they say the product contains only water, a mixture of glycols and a
> purple tint.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |


Sparkle is easy:

http://www.householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=1003001&query=sparkle&searchas=TblBrands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol (Oh what's a little
infertility to guarantee a clean canopy?)

Mer's lack of clear marketing is more a headscratcher. There are sites
claiming Mer products are silicone free. As for the Mer website
"silicon" content (note they say silicon not silicone). Who knows what
they mean to say but likely most *polishes* do contain silicon dioxide
or similar. Now whether they contain one of the silicone oils is a
different question. I let the original poster's obvious mistake on
"silicon" vs. "silicone" go by without comment but now we have a
manufacter's web site with some ambiguity.


Darryl

[Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
Robert Gaines > wrote:

> Easy to use and silicone free as far
> >>as I know.
> >
> >
> > I would bet that repair shops clean, clean and grind all old areas back
> to degree that there will be no problems with any product used on a
> surface.
> There are so many contaminants floating around that a repair shop must
> go through a careful cleaning of the damaged area before any work is
> started.
> So, I doubt that it makes any difference as to the brand/type of polish
> used.
> Your opinion may vary.
> Jump in.
> Bob


Been in a number of glider repair shops. Usually see empty New Finish
bottles lying around...

[Nick Hill]

Martin Gregorie wrote:

>
> I also use Sparkle on my canopy. Its a US product and was apparently
> developed during WW2 to clean B-29 canopies. I haven't found an MSDS but
> they say the product contains only water, a mixture of glycols and a
> purple tint.
>
>

I have used Sparkle before but cannot now find a local UK outlet. Do you
know of UK suppliers?

Nick Hill

[Dave Nadler]

On Sep 28, 11:09*am, Berry > wrote:
> Been in a number of glider repair shops...

It was your partner's fault, ehhh ?

[Lars Peder Hansen]

Many years ago I attended at talk on gelcoat maintenance by Mr. Schneider
(the "S" in LS)

He clearly stated that it does not matter at all if polish used on glider
surfaces contain silicone. The reason: exactly what Bob also notes, no
professional repairs can be done unless the surface is ground way beyond the
depth to which silicone can penetrate.
I guess he should know. I have since then used silicone based polishes on my
gliders, and I have also had them repaired (dont ask..) without any
complaints from the shops

Happy (silicone assisted) soaring,
Lars Peder
DG-600 EE, Denmark



"Robert Gaines" > wrote in message
...
> Easy to use and silicone free as far
>>>as I know.
>>
>>
>> I would bet that repair shops clean, clean and grind all old areas back
> to degree that there will be no problems with any product used on a
> surface.
> There are so many contaminants floating around that a repair shop must
> go through a careful cleaning of the damaged area before any work is
> started.
> So, I doubt that it makes any difference as to the brand/type of polish
> used.
> Your opinion may vary.
> Jump in.
> Bob
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Papa3]

On Sep 28, 1:26*pm, "Lars Peder Hansen" >
wrote:
> Many years ago I attended at talk on gelcoat maintenance by Mr. Schneider
> (the "S" in LS)
>
> He clearly stated that it does not matter at all if polish used on glider
> surfaces contain silicone. The reason: exactly what Bob also notes, no
> professional repairs can be done unless the surface is ground way beyond the
> depth to which silicone can penetrate.
> I guess he should know. I have since then used silicone based polishes on my
> gliders, and I have also had them repaired (dont ask..) without any
> complaints from the shops
>
> Happy (silicone assisted) soaring,
> Lars Peder
> DG-600 EE, Denmark
>
> "Robert Gaines" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Easy to use and silicone free as far
> >>>as I know.
>
> >> I would bet that repair shops clean, clean and grind all old areas back
> > to degree that there will be no problems with any product used on a
> > surface.
> > *There are so many contaminants floating around that a repair shop must
> > go through a careful cleaning of the damaged area before any work is
> > started.
> > So, I doubt that it makes any difference as to the brand/type of polish
> > used.
> > Your opinion may vary.
> > * Jump in.
> > Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm by no means an expert (just a guy who does an ocaisional minor
cosmetic repair or refinish now and again), but my mentors taught me
to start every project with copious amounts of 3M Prep Solvent (or
equivalent) to remove wax, oil, grease, etc. This usually meant two
passes using new (clean) paper towels for each pass. Never had any
problems with gelcoat adhesion...


P3

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
>,
Dave Nadler > wrote:

> On Sep 28, 11:09*am, Berry > wrote:
> > Been in a number of glider repair shops...
>
> It was your partner's fault, ehhh ?

Never my own glider (yet) thankfully. A wonder considering how often I
land out!

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:46:49 +0100, Nick Hill wrote:

> I have used Sparkle before but cannot now find a local UK outlet. Do you
> know of UK suppliers?
>
I can't find any UK suppliers either. However, I did discover that AFE
and Severn Valley Sailplanes stock Meguiars canopy polish, which got an
honorable mention earlier in this thread. They also have Plexus canopy
polish. Anybody know anything about this stuff?.

Severn also stock Mer, just in case you can't get it from the local
Halfords.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Sep 28, 2:09*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:46:49 +0100, Nick Hill wrote:
> > I have used Sparkle before but cannot now find a local UK outlet. Do you
> > know of UK suppliers?
>
> I can't find any UK suppliers either. However, I did discover that AFE
> and Severn Valley Sailplanes stock Meguiars canopy polish, which got an
> honorable mention earlier in this thread. They also have Plexus canopy
> polish. Anybody know anything about this stuff?.
>
> Severn also stock Mer, just in case you can't get it from the local
> Halfords.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

I've been using Plexus for over 10 years and love it - works great in
both dusty (no static after application) and humid climates.

After a lot of applications, it can get a bit hazy, then just using
water and a clean cloth will clean it up.

I keep a can and an old - but clean - tshirt in my car, and use it on
any glider or towplane I'm about to fly; it's amazing what most club
ship canopies look like!

Highly recommended.

Kirk
LS6-b "66"

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:49:49 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:

> Mer's lack of clear marketing is more a headscratcher.
>
Maybe they're not so unclear after all - see below.

> There are sites
> claiming Mer products are silicone free. As for the Mer website
> "silicon" content (note they say silicon not silicone). Who knows what
> they mean to say but likely most *polishes* do contain silicon dioxide
> or similar.
>
I wrote "silicone" because I assumed they'd misspelled it, given that so
many polishes contain silicones. So blame me for that.

As I said, the Mer MSDS only mentions EINECS 265-150-3 (hydro-treated
heavy naptha) and CAS 64742-48-9 (non-aromatic hydrocarbon solvents). The
risk-phrase codings translate as follows:

[-]R10 = Flammable.
[Xn] R65 = Harmful: may cause lung damage if swallowed.
[-] R66 = Repeated exposure may cause skin dryness or cracking.

That's everything in MSDS section 3 (Composition).

> Now whether they contain one of the silicone oils is a
> different question.
>
Presumably, you would expect silicones to appear in an MSDS if they are
product ingredients, so the implication is that there are indeed no
silicones in this polish.

It could make sense to put silicon in this type of product to act as a
mild abrasive because its fairly inert and only moderately hard (7 on
Moh's scale, same as quartz, so toward the soft end of most industrial
abrasives).


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Nick Hill]

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:46:49 +0100, Nick Hill wrote:
>
>> I have used Sparkle before but cannot now find a local UK outlet. Do you
>> know of UK suppliers?
>>
> I can't find any UK suppliers either. However, I did discover that AFE
> and Severn Valley Sailplanes stock Meguiars canopy polish, which got an
> honorable mention earlier in this thread. They also have Plexus canopy
> polish. Anybody know anything about this stuff?.
>
> Severn also stock Mer, just in case you can't get it from the local
> Halfords.
>
>

I've used Plexus and it is pretty good but some people at my club reckon
that Sparkle was better, in the old days when you could find it in the UK!

Nick