Re: Fuel Drip Containment

[Sven]

Hi Jim,

I have seen people hang an empty plastic oil bottle on the fuel vent to
catch the dripping fuel on Cessnas. Have you tried this? It shouldn't be too
much of a fire hazard and will save your hangar floor. Just make sure that
you drain the bottle regularly because the angle it sits on the vent, it
won't hold a whole quart of fuel. Using a GATT jar or some other filter, you
can reuse the fuel.

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> Snarly Charlie, the 182, has the classic "Cessna drip" from the fuel vent
when
> the tanks are filled and the hangar gets warm. I've tried everything I
know to
> stop it, but all I can do with all the mechanical fixes is slow it down.

[Montblack]

("Jim Weir" wrote)
> Another thought is to put some sort of oven pan with a mat of some sort
that
> would let the gasoline evaporate slowly from under the mat. The problem
is
> finding a nonflammable mat that gasoline will not attack chemically.


Pet store (or a garage sale) buy a lizard heating rock. $10.

Put the flat rock UNDER, maybe a large brownie pan, and insulate around the
rock.

We used a 2" thick piece of rigid pink insulation and cut out the shape of
the rock. Rock fit flush in the hole. Then we also put another piece of
rigid pink UNDER the rock, So now the rock/insulation layer is sandwiched
between a solid piece of 2" insulation on the bottom and the container on
top.

The rock should be upside-down in the insulation hole to mate up with the
bottom of whatever you're using as a drip pan.

Run a couple of bands of duct tape around the pink edges for that "finished"
look and you're all set.

For us it was an aquarium for the lizard (anole) brought home from school at
the end of the year, by the 3rd grade niece. Kept that sucker alive for 2
years.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/nature/wild/reptiles/anole.htm

You know, any small heating pad would work in this setup. I had a waterbed
heater that I kept for years after the bed had been thrown away. Used the
pad all the time. Gave the pad to my sister a while back, haven't seen it
since.

Or ...a can of yellow foam insulation is $2.95 - $3.95 ...and it's fun to
play with. Wear latex gloves because that stuff turns your hands black,
before it hardens.

Whatever you choose, just separate the heating thing from the thermal mass
pan thing.

Good luck.
--
Montblack
"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:33:46 GMT, "Sven" >
wrote:

>Hi Jim,
>
> I have seen people hang an empty plastic oil bottle on the fuel vent to
>catch the dripping fuel on Cessnas. Have you tried this? It shouldn't be too
>much of a fire hazard and will save your hangar floor. Just make sure that
>you drain the bottle regularly because the angle it sits on the vent, it
>won't hold a whole quart of fuel. Using a GATT jar or some other filter, you
>can reuse the fuel.
>
>"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
>> Snarly Charlie, the 182, has the classic "Cessna drip" from the fuel vent
>when
>> the tanks are filled and the hangar gets warm. I've tried everything I
>know to
>> stop it, but all I can do with all the mechanical fixes is slow it down.
>
The RIGHT way to solve the problem is to go flying!!!!

[C J Campbell]

Don't fill your plane before putting it away?

We turn the fuel valve off or turn it to left or right tank -- this seems to
mitigate the problem considerably, though I am not sure why it does this.

[Eric Miller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
> Don't fill your plane before putting it away?
>
> We turn the fuel valve off or turn it to left or right tank -- this seems
to
> mitigate the problem considerably, though I am not sure why it does this.

Because in any position besides the BOTH setting, it prevents fuel from
flowing between the tanks... or more precisely, from the (slightly) upper
tank to the lower tank and out the lower tank's fuel vent.

Eric

[C J Campbell]

"Eric Miller" > wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Don't fill your plane before putting it away?
| >
| > We turn the fuel valve off or turn it to left or right tank -- this
seems
| to
| > mitigate the problem considerably, though I am not sure why it does
this.
|
| Because in any position besides the BOTH setting, it prevents fuel from
| flowing between the tanks... or more precisely, from the (slightly) upper
| tank to the lower tank and out the lower tank's fuel vent.
|

Okay, that much I knew, but why doesn't the lower tank just empty itself?
Does it need the pressure from the higher tank in order to start siphoning
out the fuel vent?

[Eric Miller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote
> Okay, that much I knew, but why doesn't the lower tank just empty itself?
> Does it need the pressure from the higher tank in order to start siphoning
> out the fuel vent?

I think the lower tank does empty itself... but just until it gets to the
level of the fuel vent.
In the BOTH setting, they'll both empty to the level of their respective
vents.
Keep in mind that the right tank is vented to the left tank, and the left
tank is vented overboard, so if possible, it might help to make the right
tank the lower one.

Eric

[Newps]

C J Campbell wrote:

> Okay, that much I knew, but why doesn't the lower tank just empty itself?
> Does it need the pressure from the higher tank in order to start siphoning
> out the fuel vent?

It doesn't siphon, it flows. Without the fuel from the other tank it
can't flow.

[Newps]

Eric Miller wrote:


> I think the lower tank does empty itself... but just until it gets to the
> level of the fuel vent.
> In the BOTH setting, they'll both empty to the level of their respective
> vents.

There is only one vent, under the left wing. If fuel expands it runs in
a line between the left and right tanks. This line is above the tanks.
Fuel will also go thru this line if the selector is on both, the tanks
are full or near full and the plane is not level. Move the selector to
either right or left and this won't happen. If left on both the tanks
will level themselves thru the selector.

[karl gruber]

****There is only one vent, under the left wing*****

Not on my high wing Cessna. There are vents behind the struts for both
wings.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:KXRmb.34654$Tr4.62408@attbi_s03...
>
>
> Eric Miller wrote:
>
>
> > I think the lower tank does empty itself... but just until it gets to
the
> > level of the fuel vent.
> > In the BOTH setting, they'll both empty to the level of their respective
> > vents.
>
> There is only one vent, under the left wing. If fuel expands it runs in
> a line between the left and right tanks. This line is above the tanks.
> Fuel will also go thru this line if the selector is on both, the tanks
> are full or near full and the plane is not level. Move the selector to
> either right or left and this won't happen. If left on both the tanks
> will level themselves thru the selector.
>
>

[Eric Miller]

"karl gruber" > wrote in message
...
> ****There is only one vent, under the left wing*****
>
> Not on my high wing Cessna. There are vents behind the struts for both
> wings.
>
> Karl
> "Curator" N185KG

What model?

The 172S has the left tank vented behind the wing strut and right tank
vented to left tank.
The 172M has the left tank vented behind the wing strut and right tank
vented through the fuel cap.
Both according to the respective POH (and backed up by memory).

Of course, Cessna makes other models too, some of which aren't even 172's!

Eric

[G.R. Patterson III]

Eric Miller wrote:
>
> Of course, Cessna makes other models too, some of which aren't even 172's!

And, in fact, the aircraft in the intital post of this thread is an elderly
182.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

[Jim Weir]

Not an acceptable fix. Liquid fuel in an open container is not where I wanted
to go. I could just have used a bucket on the floor instead of taking a chance
on bending the vent with a quart (1½ #) of fuel hanging on the line.

But thanks for trying.



"Sven" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Hi Jim,
->
-> I have seen people hang an empty plastic oil bottle on the fuel vent to
->catch the dripping fuel on Cessnas. Have you tried this? It shouldn't be too
->much of a fire hazard and will save your hangar floor. Just make sure that
->you drain the bottle regularly because the angle it sits on the vent, it
->won't hold a whole quart of fuel. Using a GATT jar or some other filter, you
->can reuse the fuel.
->
->"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
->> Snarly Charlie, the 182, has the classic "Cessna drip" from the fuel vent
->when
->> the tanks are filled and the hangar gets warm. I've tried everything I
->know to
->> stop it, but all I can do with all the mechanical fixes is slow it down.
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Sorry, no cigar. Putting a source of ignition (110 ac) in proximity to a fuel
source isn't where I wanted to be.

But thanks for trying.

Jim



"Montblack" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->("Jim Weir" wrote)
->> Another thought is to put some sort of oven pan with a mat of some sort
->that
->> would let the gasoline evaporate slowly from under the mat. The problem
->is
->> finding a nonflammable mat that gasoline will not attack chemically.
->
->
->Pet store (or a garage sale) buy a lizard heating rock. $10.
->
->Put the flat rock UNDER, maybe a large brownie pan, and insulate around the
->rock.
->
->We used a 2" thick piece of rigid pink insulation and cut out the shape of
->the rock. Rock fit flush in the hole. Then we also put another piece of
->rigid pink UNDER the rock, So now the rock/insulation layer is sandwiched
->between a solid piece of 2" insulation on the bottom and the container on
->top.
->
->The rock should be upside-down in the insulation hole to mate up with the
->bottom of whatever you're using as a drip pan.
->
->Run a couple of bands of duct tape around the pink edges for that "finished"
->look and you're all set.
->
->For us it was an aquarium for the lizard (anole) brought home from school at
->the end of the year, by the 3rd grade niece. Kept that sucker alive for 2
->years.
->
->http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/nature/wild/reptiles/anole.htm
->
->You know, any small heating pad would work in this setup. I had a waterbed
->heater that I kept for years after the bed had been thrown away. Used the
->pad all the time. Gave the pad to my sister a while back, haven't seen it
->since.
->
->Or ...a can of yellow foam insulation is $2.95 - $3.95 ...and it's fun to
->play with. Wear latex gloves because that stuff turns your hands black,
->before it hardens.
->
->Whatever you choose, just separate the heating thing from the thermal mass
->pan thing.
->
->Good luck.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

And the WRONG thing is to be dicking around trying to fuel an aircraft at
0-dark-30 in the morning.

But thanks for trying.

Jim



clare @ snyder.on .ca
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


->The RIGHT way to solve the problem is to go flying!!!!

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Yes, I thought I said that I could slow it down, but not stop it. As you can
see, others (ad infinitum, ad nauseum) will tell you the simple physics of
parking an airplane with the outside fuel vent downhill.

Jim


"C J Campbell" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Don't fill your plane before putting it away?
->
->We turn the fuel valve off or turn it to left or right tank -- this seems to
->mitigate the problem considerably, though I am not sure why it does this.
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Hm. I guess I could rotate the whole airport so that my hangar faces lefthand
UPHILL instead of downhill, but it is going to take a moby-large bulldozer to do
it.

Jim



->Keep in mind that the right tank is vented to the left tank, and the left
->tank is vented overboard, so if possible, it might help to make the right
->tank the lower one.
->
->Eric
->
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[C J Campbell]

"Eric Miller" > wrote in message
...
| "karl gruber" > wrote in message
| ...
| > ****There is only one vent, under the left wing*****
| >
| > Not on my high wing Cessna. There are vents behind the struts for both
| > wings.
| >
| > Karl
| > "Curator" N185KG
|
| What model?
|

My 206 has vents on both sides.

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Jim Weir > wrote:
>Hm. I guess I could rotate the whole airport so that my hangar faces lefthand
>UPHILL instead of downhill, but it is going to take a moby-large bulldozer to do
>it.

How unlevel is it? Just make yourself a really shallow ramp (say by
ripping strips of 1/4" masonite and stacking/gluing them). Put that
on the hangar floor so that you roll onto it as you park.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Jim Weir]

Um, no. The wing, when one tire goes flat and the other is inflated normally,
comes within a quarter-inch of a 2x2 steel beam in the hangar roof. Another
quarter of an inch and I'll have a wing to replace some day. Not a good idea,
at least not for me.

Jim



(Ben Jackson)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


->How unlevel is it? Just make yourself a really shallow ramp (say by
->ripping strips of 1/4" masonite and stacking/gluing them). Put that
->on the hangar floor so that you roll onto it as you park.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Sven]

"David Lesher" > wrote in message
...
> It might be interesting to take a container with some small quantity
> of gas-damp kitty litter and ignite it safely -- ie well clear of
> any burnable stuph and with a 6' pole to set it off.
>
> The kitty litter won't burn. The gas fumes will, and I'd assume will
> the heat will evaporate 'trapped' gas....but slowly.

Just use the fuel soaked kitty litter in the litter box. It will keep your
cat from smoking! ;-)

Avgas or auto fuel will smell better than the used litter box.

[Ross Richardson]

How about a piece of tygon tubing with a inside diameter the size of the
vent tube. Let that hang (or support it with the wing strut) and let it
drain into a gas can. If you are careful you might even be able to reuse
it. I am lucky, my 172F has never had this condition. A friend with a
150 always had it and only fueled when he got ready to fly.

I use a short piece of hose with some wire mesh in it and a orange
"flag" hanging from it. I put that over the vent tube to keep the pesky
bugs from building a nest in it. Orange flag reminds me to remove before
flight.

[Montblack]

("Jim Weir" wrote)
> Sorry, no cigar. Putting a source of ignition (110 ac) in proximity to a
fuel
> source isn't where I wanted to be.

One more try:

BTW, in the future, please leave out any references to cigars -
you, you, you ...politician :-)

Take the (fully sealed) lizard rock and make a 1x3 frame around it, with a
bottom board. Box should be about the size of a Cheerios box. Pour cement
around "lizard rock". (Doesn't matter what side of the lizard rock is up,
now that the whole thing is encased in cement)

In the side of the cement Cheerios box (with the "lizard rock cocooned
inside) insert a 6" piece of PVC pipe. The PVC pipe will have the power cord
running through it. Goop up the end of the PVC pipe to seal up the cord.
Might be easier to do this before the cement pour. <g>

Now you have a re-hearing thermal mass to set your brownie pan on top of.
Those lizard rocks get pretty warm, but not hot-hot. Do the normal (super)
insulation thing for the cement thermal mass. Don't forget the duct tape.

Whole thing should weigh as much as an old IBM Selectric typewriter. Heck,
use an old typewriter cart. High wing right?

This all assumes warming up the gasoline, by spreading it out in an old
turkey roasting pan with a thermal mass under it, will hasten evaporation.
Original brownie pan idea lacked capacity - just in case.

"Is it safe?" - Marathon Man.

--
Montblack
"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

[Montblack]

("David Lesher" wrote)
> It might be interesting to take a container with some small quantity
> of gas-damp kitty litter and ignite it safely -- ie well clear of
> any burnable stuph and with a 6' pole to set it off.

Jim is "out there" in California.

He might want to hold off on the kitty litter fire, until the other fires
are put out.

--
Montblack

[Montblack]

("G.R. Patterson III" wrote)
> You forgot - he's gonna fill it with fuel cell foam. :-)


.....after he puts a cement weight in the bottom of the can!!

--
Montblack

"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

[Ron Natalie]

"Montblack" > wrote in message ...

> Whatever you choose, just separate the heating thing from the thermal mass
> pan thing.

It isn't clear to me that evaporating the fuel is what you want to do. A coffee can
of liquid fuel is a whole lot better than a enclosed space full of fuel vapor.

[mikem]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:09:13 -0800, Jim Weir > wrote:

>Hm. I guess I could rotate the whole airport so that my hangar faces lefthand
>UPHILL instead of downhill, but it is going to take a moby-large bulldozer to do
>it.

My hangar slopes slightly downward toward the left wing. I just park
my 182L (LR tanks) with the left wheel sitting on a 1/4" x 12" x 6"
chunk of plywood. Even without the plywood, mine only drips if it is
brim full, or if the temperature increases by 40 degrees F or more
since it was fuelled.

It doesn't drip if the temperature drops, or if the fuel level is
below or just even with the bottom of the filler neck, at which point
you can only jam in another 2-3 gallons per side.

MikeM
Skylane '1MM

[Ross Richardson]

Plus the EPA is gona get ya for air pollution.


Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> "Montblack" > wrote in message ...
>
> > Whatever you choose, just separate the heating thing from the thermal mass
> > pan thing.
>
> It isn't clear to me that evaporating the fuel is what you want to do. A coffee can
> of liquid fuel is a whole lot better than a enclosed space full of fuel vapor.

[Montblack]

("Ron Natalie" wrote)
> It isn't clear to me that evaporating the fuel is what you want to do. A
coffee can
> of liquid fuel is a whole lot better than a enclosed space full of fuel
vapor.

You're probably right.

There just aren't many airplane projects that start by mixing up a small bag
of Quick-Crete.

--
Montblack

"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"